Re: [Bloat] Win10 Updates vs cake

[Mario Hock]

Hi,

except from buffer bloat performance can also be degraded by an 
increased packet loss probability.


Can you also track packet loss rates / packet loss probability? And also 
throughput/progress of the Windows update connections?


If the reason actually is that FastTCP does not respond to congestion in 
a fair manner (as Ryan Mounce suggested) than you should see high packet 
loss (for all connections), high throughput for the Windows update 
connections and very low throughput for regular TCP connections.


Also, it would be interesting to see what happens to fixed bit rate UDP 
streams.


Best, Mario


Am 22.12.2017 um 03:01 schrieb Rich Brown:

I'm using LEDE 17.01.4 on my Archer C7v2. I have a 7mbps/768kbps ADSL2+ connection 
through Fairpoint. The modem stats page shows its "attainable rates" (kbps): 
13330/1272 and Rates: 8271/1181. My SQM settings are:

Download: 7000 (kbps)
Upload: 925
Queue Disc: Cake/piece_of_cake.qos
Link Layer: ATM/44 bytes overhead
Advanced Options: default

I have noticed that Win10 updates cause the network connection to become 
unusable for other services/people, as if I had bufferbloat. But ping times 
remain stable - they jump from ~20-22 msec unloaded to 40-50 msec.

Experiments I have tried:

- Setting download speed to 5000 makes the connection usable for other people, 
although the ping times remain about the same (40-50 msec)

- Setting the download speed to 8600 still keeps ping times down, but that 
really harms other people's performance.

- The link rates (download and upload) seem to track the SQM setting, measured 
with both YAMon and the built-in real-time graphs.  I get ~6,000 kbps with a 
7000 download setting, I got ~3,000kbps at the 5000 setting. I get ~8500 kbps 
after setting download to 8600.

- This doesn't seem to happen when I'm downloading other kinds of files (I 
haven't tried torrenting files...) Downloading non-Win10 update files seems to 
leave the connection in a fairly responsive state.

Any thoughts? What other experiments should I make? Thanks!

Rich
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Re: [Bloat] Win10 Updates vs cake

[Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant]

> On 22 Dec 2017, at 03:57, Ryan Mounce  wrote:
> 
> Some further reading on the issue
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/nanog@nanog.org/msg87442.html
> https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2530363
> 
> Regards,
> Ryan Mounce
> 

Chaps,

As a result of the following conversation between Dave & myself.

>> Opinions on doing a PR for LEDE so they can enjoy(/crash) the fruits of our 
>> latest cobalt.  They’re currently missing ingress mode & ack filtering 
>> filtering toys.
> 
> Nah. Let's get it into net-next first this time. I would hope for some
> good comments.


LEDE master until very recently (a week) still had old versions of cake & tc.  
Since the upstreaming appears to have stalled on a technical issue, I took the 
opportunity to update LEDE master.  I had submitted patches for 17.01 
yesterday, after having let master ’stew’ a bit in case of problems,  but 
subsequently pulled them this morning due to new arrivals (and discrepancies) 
in the cake repo.

As of this email - LEDE master has a full featured cake/cobalt but with a 
double overhead bug.  LEDE 17.01 has a much older, pre ingress mode, pre ack 
filter version.

Once the cake repo is sorted out I can redo & resubmit the patches for both 
master & 1701 - and with a bit of luck we’ll all be in an even place again.

Cheers,

Kevin D-B
+44 7947 355344

012C ACB2 28C6 C53E 9775  9123 B3A2 389B 9DE2 334A



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Re: [Bloat] Win10 Updates vs cake

[Rich Brown]

Kevin,

> Once the cake repo is sorted out I can redo & resubmit the patches for both 
> master & 1701 - and with a bit of luck we’ll all be in an even place again.

Thanks for this update. I'm subscribed to the cake github stream, so I hear 
about changes there.

If I understand correctly, after those patches are resubmitted, 17.01 will have 
the newest cake with all bells/whistles. 

Would you post a note here to a) let us know when they're available, and b) how 
"normal people" (that is, non-developers) can get this newest code? (I'm happy 
to post instructions to the forum if no one beats me to it.) Thanks.

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Re: [Bloat] Win10 Updates vs cake

[Rich Brown]

> On Dec 22, 2017, at 4:12 AM, Mario Hock  > wrote:
> 
> Can you also track packet loss rates / packet loss probability? And also 
> throughput/progress of the Windows update connections?

Oh, yes... I meant to add in the initial report that during times of Win10 
downloads, packet loss for all services went to pieces.

I run Intermapper at home to monitor uptime/packet loss/performance of lots of 
devices across the net. During those downloads, packet loss frequently jumped 
to 5-6% for most devices.

Thanks again,

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[Bloat] Writing an article that includes a bufferbloat section

[cloneman]

Hi,

I'm working on an article that compares traffic management solutions on
common SOHO routers. It should appear in about a month on DSLr. It will be
80% accurate and 20% is speculative based on my collection of best guesses
and personal experience using tc / sfq / fq_codel.

I wanted to run it by you guys to avoid spreading any additional
misinformation about fq_codel or cake. The blurb in question starts on page
5 of the document. The conclusion of the document will be pointing people
towards zero-knobs sqm solutions.

There are still many changes to make at this stage, in particular my table
of supported routers is very speculative. As routers get upgraded I will
have to update that table.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aeLWwVsyUPDWWEfa8xtw_Crv36geXG-2DP2P64452rw/edit

My objective here is not to recruit unpaid proofreaders or have additional
cooks, but merely an opportunity for fq_codel people "in charge of media
relations" an opportunity to object.or make a request or suggestion of any
type.

Thanks.
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