Re: [Bloat] Does SQM always require you to tell it your ISP up/down speed?

2023-06-29 Thread Kenneth Porter via Bloat 

Didn't you just ask this question?



There were several replies including links to auto-tuning scripts.

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Re: [Bloat] [Starlink] If only we could cross the chasm

2023-06-29 Thread the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via Bloat 
Paging Nathan Owens! :D

*"After nearly 5 great years, today was my last day at Netflix. Excited to
get started at SpaceX (Starlink) in 2 weeks!*

https://twitter.com/VirtuallyNathan/status/1662256501220671494


On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 8:22 AM Dave Taht via Starlink <
starl...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> on all the intertubes...
>
>
> https://preseem.com/2023/06/how-to-reduce-latency-for-isps-and-subscribers/
>
> While I do embrace the need for a middlebox on the down, the home wifi
> really needs fq_codel running directly on it too, and cake on the
> up... I really wish somehow, someday, I could sit across a six pack of
> beer from a spacex engineer with a cross compiler for the dishy...
>
> I am really tickled that the majority of devices I have encountered on
> my trip to nicaragua are either running fq_codel or are sanely
> buffered in the first place.
>
> --
> Podcast:
> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
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>

-- 
geoff.goodfel...@iconia.com
living as The Truth is True
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Re: [Bloat] MiM attacks in the L4S low latency networking environment

2023-06-29 Thread Douglas Goncz A.A.S. M.E.T. 1990 via Bloat 
Moderators please note the most recent digest contained some information
about l4s testing.

I was stimulated by progress in the l4s area to consider whether reduction
in latency would affect susceptibility of buffers to MIM and other attacks

I received a note from automatic robot somewhere saying that I posted to a
members only list using an unsubscribed address

I repeat the address used for this communication

dgo...@replikon.net

Is it possible that a capitalization error has caused the robot to think
this is an unsubscribed address?

For example using various email clients the mail might be sent from

dgo...@replikon.net


,

Douglas

On Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 6:57 AM Douglas Goncz A.A.S. M.E.T. 1990 <
dgo...@replikon.net> wrote:

> Theorem:
>
> If N bots cooperate in
>
> A man in the middle attack or a denial of service attack in an L4S
> environment, with 1 point of entry into each susceptible buffer,
>
> WITH
>
> A generalized fixed estimated probability of success 0 < P.S.1 < 1 = (1 -
> P.F.1)
>
> THEN including interactions between the bots the
>
> Generalized probability of success is (about):
>
> P.S.N ~= 1 - ( (1-P.S.1) ^ (N^2 - N) ).
>
> Reframed for sci-fi physics research:
>
> If 1 atom fissions in a specific amount of time with probability P.S.1
> above,
>
> Do N tightly coupled atoms fission with probability P.S.N in the same
> amount of time?
>
> Douglas
> REPLIKON Research 783774974
>
> BCC:
> Lynch PhD,
> Teri,
> Jason, and
> MIT81
>
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[Bloat] MiM attacks in the L4S low latency networking environment

2023-06-29 Thread Douglas Goncz A.A.S. M.E.T. 1990 via Bloat 
Theorem:

If N bots cooperate in

A man in the middle attack or a denial of service attack in an L4S
environment, with 1 point of entry into each susceptible buffer,

WITH

A generalized fixed estimated probability of success 0 < P.S.1 < 1 = (1 -
P.F.1)

THEN including interactions between the bots the

Generalized probability of success is (about):

P.S.N ~= 1 - ( (1-P.S.1) ^ (N^2 - N) ).

Reframed for sci-fi physics research:

If 1 atom fissions in a specific amount of time with probability P.S.1
above,

Do N tightly coupled atoms fission with probability P.S.N in the same
amount of time?

Douglas
REPLIKON Research 783774974

BCC:
Lynch PhD,
Teri,
Jason, and
MIT81
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[Bloat] Does SQM always require you to tell it your ISP up/down speed?

2023-06-29 Thread John D via Bloat 
Sorry for the noob question I am considering Ubiquiti EdgeRouter since it
has good reviews, SQM and is on the list here
https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/What_can_I_do_about_Bufferbloat/
I see the need to configure your typical up/down link capacity for it to
work properly.
Is this the norm? I perhaps naively assumed these smart algorithms would
work on queue size regardless of link speed - which can vary.
My ISP varies on upload between 4-8mbps so IIRC that means I need to tune
SQM at the low end, but this means when performance is better it will still
be capped... or have I misunderstood and it will still utilise the
additional capacity on good days?

Thanks.
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Re: [Bloat] Quote of the week

2023-06-29 Thread Jake Holland via Bloat 
Oh, that brings me back.  This is going to be such a fun rollout I can
hardly wait.



Here's to hoping we wind up with fewer regrets about ECT(1) than we started
with, since hope is all I've got left here.  All my attempts at comments
have been commented.



Imma go crawl back in bed and pull the covers over my head again.


-Jake



On 05-23, 2:05 PM, "Dave Taht via Bloat" 
wrote:





from: https://www.ietf.org/blog/banishing-bufferbloat/





"Therefore, innovations like L4S and FQ-CoDel complement each other

and should be deployed together."
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[Bloat] If only we could cross the chasm

2023-06-29 Thread Dave Taht via Bloat 
on all the intertubes...

 https://preseem.com/2023/06/how-to-reduce-latency-for-isps-and-subscribers/

While I do embrace the need for a middlebox on the down, the home wifi
really needs fq_codel running directly on it too, and cake on the
up... I really wish somehow, someday, I could sit across a six pack of
beer from a spacex engineer with a cross compiler for the dishy...

I am really tickled that the majority of devices I have encountered on
my trip to nicaragua are either running fq_codel or are sanely
buffered in the first place.

-- 
Podcast: 
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
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Re: [Bloat] Testing Offer - Comcast L4S Trials

2023-06-29 Thread Sebastian Moeller via Bloat 
While I have no test that I can volunteer, let alone a test that supports L4S.

I want to take the opportunity to share my tcpdump invocations that can show 
ECN in action on the IP-level:

# ECN: IPv4
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip and (ip[1] & 0x3) != 0' # NOT Not-ECT
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip and (ip[1] & 0x3) == 0' # Not-ECT
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip and (ip[1] & 0x3) == 1' # ECT(1)
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip and (ip[1] & 0x3) == 2' # ECT(0)
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip and (ip[1] & 0x3) == 3' # CE


# ECN: IPv6
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  != 0' # NOT Not-ECT
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  == 0' # Not-ECT
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  == 1' # ECT(1)
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  == 2' # ECT(0)
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  == 3' # CE


# ECN IPv4/6
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n '(ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  != 0)' or '(ip and 
(ip[1] & 0x3) != 0)' # NOT Not-ECT
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n '(ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  == 1)' or '(ip and 
(ip[1] & 0x3) == 1)' # ECT(1)
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n '(ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  == 2)' or '(ip and 
(ip[1] & 0x3) == 2)' # ECT(0)
tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n '(ip6 and (ip6[0:2] & 0x30) >> 4  == 3)' or '(ip and 
(ip[1] & 0x3) == 3)' # CE


Just replace "-i pppoe-wan" with your own network interface of interest, this 
seems to work on both recent inux and older macos (12.6.7).
Before L4S roll-out the test for ECT(1) can be helpful to confirm that there is 
no background ECT(1) usage that might (or might not) cause issues with L4S.



> On Jun 29, 2023, at 16:12, Livingood, Jason via Bloat 
>  wrote:
> 
> As noted recently, we (Comcast) will soon begin L4S testing with customers. 
> We’re working on our test plans now. So my offer here is to let me know if:
> 1 – You have test probes you’d like us to deploy. We are working on a plan to 
> send out (1) University of Chicago NetMicroscope probes and (2) RIPE Atlas 
> probes.
> 2 – You have web-based tests you’d like people to run, or have one-click 
> install client for Mac or Windows. (Most testers will not be technical enough 
> to run CLI-based tests, the the exception of the Apple network responsiveness 
> test.) 
>  
> Thx! If this is of interest, please ping me 1:1 off-list.
> Jason
>  
> Current list
> (1.a) Ookla web-based
> (1.b) Ookla client
> (1.c) M-Labs NDT
> (1.d) Fastly web-based
> (1.e) Netflix web-based
> (1.f) Waveform web-based
> (1.g) DSL Reports web-based 
> (1.h) Apple Network Responsiveness test

[SM] Not mine to offer, but I think speed.cloudflare.com also might be 
interesting as it seems to follow the modern "let's not ignore latency under 
load" paradigm as well as the translate the results into terms suitable for 
casual users, while also reporting the hard numbers for those interested. 
What seems not available right now is a public test that can 
selectively exercise both L4S queues independently.

Regards
Sebastian

>  
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[Bloat] Testing Offer - Comcast L4S Trials

2023-06-29 Thread Livingood, Jason via Bloat 
As noted recently, we (Comcast) will soon begin L4S testing with customers. 
We’re working on our test plans now. So my offer here is to let me know if:
1 – You have test probes you’d like us to deploy. We are working on a plan to 
send out (1) University of Chicago NetMicroscope probes and (2) RIPE Atlas 
probes.
2 – You have web-based tests you’d like people to run, or have one-click 
install client for Mac or Windows. (Most testers will not be technical enough 
to run CLI-based tests, the the exception of the Apple network responsiveness 
test.)

Thx! If this is of interest, please ping me 1:1 off-list.
Jason

Current list
(1.a) Ookla web-based
(1.b) Ookla client
(1.c) M-Labs NDT
(1.d) Fastly web-based
(1.e) Netflix web-based
(1.f) Waveform web-based
(1.g) DSL Reports web-based
(1.h) Apple Network Responsiveness test

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