Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi, :-) On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:42, Christoph Noack wrote: > thanks for your mail ... I think the best thing is to also forward it to > the Design team list, and to him (BCC). Let's see how it evolves :-) Sure. I just hope we manage to take a fast decision about this, and *get it done* without too much futzing around. :-D David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi David, thanks for your mail ... I think the best thing is to also forward it to the Design team list, and to him (BCC). Let's see how it evolves :-) And to all: Sorry for constantly spamming multiple lists at the same time - the remaining work should be done on one list only. Cheers, Christoph Am Donnerstag, den 23.12.2010, 09:34 +0800 schrieb David Nelson: > Hi, :-) > > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 08:58, Christoph Noack wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > just for the record - there has been another proposal for a menu and the > > front page of the new website. > > > > Some of you might know Nikash, who already worked within the OOo days on > > designs - and usually they are simply great :-) However, he wrote a very > > kind mail, proposed some changes, and published a website mockup: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00217.html > > I think it looks really good [1]. > > As a secondary project, the basic > design could also easily be adapted for the wiki and > documentfoundation.org (nabble, too?), using the same > design with other colors from the marketing color scheme. > > I've got SSH access to work on a sandbox at pumbaa.ooodev.org > (http://188.40.32.145:7780/), so we could implement the design as a > SilverStripe theme there, and Christian could move it across to the > upcoming libreoffice.org site when ready. > > I'll be happy to collaborate with him out with the theme > implementation aspect, and to do the necessary content adaptation / > design to fit in with it. > > @Christoph, it sounds like you're agreeable to the idea. > > @Bernard: you too? > > @christian: you too? > > If so, when can we give Nik a green light to start work? ;-) > > [1] > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Nik#Interim_Website_Design_proposals > > David Nelson > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi, :-) On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 08:58, Christoph Noack wrote: > Hi all, > > just for the record - there has been another proposal for a menu and the > front page of the new website. > > Some of you might know Nikash, who already worked within the OOo days on > designs - and usually they are simply great :-) However, he wrote a very > kind mail, proposed some changes, and published a website mockup: > http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00217.html I think it looks really good [1]. As a secondary project, the basic design could also easily be adapted for the wiki and documentfoundation.org (nabble, too?), using the same design with other colors from the marketing color scheme. I've got SSH access to work on a sandbox at pumbaa.ooodev.org (http://188.40.32.145:7780/), so we could implement the design as a SilverStripe theme there, and Christian could move it across to the upcoming libreoffice.org site when ready. I'll be happy to collaborate with him out with the theme implementation aspect, and to do the necessary content adaptation / design to fit in with it. @Christoph, it sounds like you're agreeable to the idea. @Bernard: you too? @christian: you too? If so, when can we give Nik a green light to start work? ;-) [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Nik#Interim_Website_Design_proposals David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi all, just for the record - there has been another proposal for a menu and the front page of the new website. Some of you might know Nikash, who already worked within the OOo days on designs - and usually they are simply great :-) However, he wrote a very kind mail, proposed some changes, and published a website mockup: http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00217.html Cheers, Christoph Am Mittwoch, den 22.12.2010, 12:24 +0100 schrieb Christoph Noack: > Hi Tom! > > Am Mittwoch, den 22.12.2010, 10:33 + schrieb Tom Davies: > > Hi David :) > > > > I prefer > > http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink > > because it has less information and looks prettier. > > > > Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and > > seems > > to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on > > Well, there is no "the people" ... there are people having different > requirements and living/working in different environments. Some guys > want to have in-depth information in advance, some consume basic > information and just want to give things a try. > > Thus, it is not about hiding information, but to provide it step-by-step > - managing the concept what people can grasp. That is why I think that > we miss the requirements of quite some users at the moment ... > > > > http://test.libreoffice.org > > took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple > > of > > milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' > > complicated. > > Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? > > Same for me ... > > > By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no > > information. [...] > > > > I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the > > download. > > The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away > > or > > reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. > > Yep. > > > I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is > > closest to > > completion whichever one that is. > > I'd say ... whatever helps us to satisfy the needs of the majority of > our users. So even if it might take some additional work, it seems worth > the effort. > > > > Regards from > > Tom :) > > > > PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted > > nowadays > > Sorry to hear that :-\ > > Cheers, > Christoph > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Florian Effenberger wrote (22-12-10 16:49) @ Florian, Fantastic!! We really need exposure where-ever possible and that looks perfect. It is great to hear people are putting in so much effective work into getting us out there, thanks. Good luck on the day!:) Take a note of good lottery numbers just in case they do send you back;) thanks a lot ;) Cudos to Cor, who was in charge of applying for a booth, and did a great job :-) And thanks to you for helping catching the right tone & motivation Florian :-) Cor -- - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Hi Tom, Tom Davies wrote on 2010-12-22 14.02: @ Florian, Fantastic!! We really need exposure where-ever possible and that looks perfect. It is great to hear people are putting in so much effective work into getting us out there, thanks. Good luck on the day!:) Take a note of good lottery numbers just in case they do send you back;) thanks a lot ;) Cudos to Cor, who was in charge of applying for a booth, and did a great job :-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Idea about Ideas
Dear Pawel, all, just giving you a short, personal reply, as I am not a member of the document foundation - not even deeply involved into the project yet. You are addressing the strength and weakness of free software development at the same time. Because free software belongs to all of us, we all are also asked to participate. This is good, because we - the user - know what we want (at least we know what we want to achieve - and we know if we like solutions for that or not - but I am rather unsure if we know how to best brige that gap). Anyhow, this defintely is a good base for creating a great product. On the other hand, if we (the users) ALL DO participate, we end up with some increadible noise. Neither the developers nor the user will understand each other - only the loudest and not the wisest will be heard. I want to get involved into LibreOffoce, because - just like you - I think we need to bring in the user's voice into the development. And we still have to discover the best ways to do so. So, thank you very much for your great ideas about how this goal could be achieved. If you like to join us in our effort in building up the infrastructure and methodology needed, I think it would be best if you joined the mailiing-list des...@libreoffice.org - this is where the usability efforts are hosted (hope I am right there). On there we can start the needed discussions... Looking forward to seeing you there, Björn On Sunday 19 December 2010 17:24:26 Pawel Jarosz wrote: > To Whom It may Concern > > > I've been a user of OpenOffice for the past several years and I > loved that software. I used it at work in school and at home. Since > the Oracle Corporation purchased Sun Microsystem I lost the desiger > to use the OpenOffice. And then several weeks ago I found out about > your foundation and I fell in love with the foundation and > LibreOffice. You are the best think that happened to the OpenOffice > and open source community in the last several years. > > The reason I am contacting you is because I'd like to tell you about > how I am feeling about your fundation and LibreOffice and to give > you my idea "Idea about Ideas" how you/we can improve the product. I > have imagined a website where users can enter their ideas about > diffrent extentions, GUI, how to improve the product, how market the > product, etc. And also have a ranking system on the website where > users can vote for different ideas that they would like to see in > the next release. What I would do I would have an extension built > into the LibreOffice where users, connected to internet, could log > Ideas quickly and efficiently without leaving application. > > I think the website would provide a place where users and developers > could come up with Ideas and share them with the rest of the world. > This place, the website, would be central for creating, sharing and > grading and determining which functionality, aspect of the > LibreOffice is the most crucial, importat for the users to be > changed or incorporated. > > > The users would have a greater influence in which direction the > software would go which in the end would satisfy greater number of > people. > > > > Thank you very much for your valuable time. I hope my "idea about > ideas" will find a positive reception. And if it does I'd like to > offer my help in creating the website. > > > > Please let me know any thoughts, concerns or comments about the > "idea about ideas". > > > > > > V/R > Pawel Jarosz > Email: pawel.yar...@gmail.com -- www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Hi all, On 22/12/2010 14:41, Florian Effenberger wrote: Good news everyone :-) Yes, really great news, thanks Florian :-) Having maintained the booth the last years, if you (I mean the team) need any info or have any question, don't hesitate to ask. Unfortunately, I won't be able to take care of the coffee and speculoos this time, but I'm sure you'll have a great time any way :-) Kind regards Sophie I just received the following mail: Your request for a stand of LibreOffice at FOSDEM 2010 has been accepted, and we will put the following at your disposal: - on Saturday from 10:00 to 18:00 and Sunday from 10:00 to 17:00, - 2 table(s) of 2 meter width and 1 meter depth, 2 seats per table, - most probably in the H building (subject to change), - best-effort wireless interenet and one(!) type C/E power plug. If you want to decline this offer, please tell us as soon as possible. We provide only one power plug per stand, but you can hook up several multi-socket power chords. Because we can not provide those for every stand, we must ask you to bring your own multi-socket power chords. To make the stands look more professional, we would also like to ask you to bring a table cloth that covers the table and the front of it. The front side is a very good place to put your logo and name in large on, this will increase your visibility. We will stick A4 sheets with your project name on the tables, so you'll know where to install stuff. The best time to build up your stands in the H building is around 09:00. From 09:30-10:00 the people start to rush in, heading for the opening talks. In the AW building, things are typically more quiet until the opening talks are finished, which is around 12:00. Yippieh! ;-) Florian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Woohoo! Thanks Florian and everyone else for this! Charles. Le Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:41:21 +0100, Florian Effenberger a écrit : > Good news everyone :-) > > I just received the following mail: > > > Your request for a stand of LibreOffice at FOSDEM 2010 has been > > accepted, and we will put the following at your disposal: > > - on Saturday from 10:00 to 18:00 and Sunday from 10:00 to 17:00, > > - 2 table(s) of 2 meter width and 1 meter depth, 2 seats per > > table, > > - most probably in the H building (subject to change), > > - best-effort wireless interenet and one(!) type C/E power plug. > > If you want to decline this offer, please tell us as soon as > > possible. > > > > We provide only one power plug per stand, but you can hook up > > several multi-socket power chords. Because we can not provide those > > for every stand, we must ask you to bring your own multi-socket > > power chords. > > > > To make the stands look more professional, we would also like to > > ask you to bring a table cloth that covers the table and the front > > of it. The front side is a very good place to put your logo and > > name in large on, this will increase your visibility. > > > > We will stick A4 sheets with your project name on the tables, so > > you'll know where to install stuff. The best time to build up your > > stands in the H building is around 09:00. From 09:30-10:00 the > > people start to rush in, heading for the opening talks. In the AW > > building, things are typically more quiet until the opening talks > > are finished, which is around 12:00. > > Yippieh! ;-) > > Florian > -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Merry Christmas, Tom. ;-) On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:02, Tom Davies wrote: > Good luck & merry Christmas everyone that is observant and everyone else i > hope > you have a good time too :) > Regards from > Tom :) David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
@ Heinz, Lol, he is being sent back to last year's? @ Florian, Fantastic!! We really need exposure where-ever possible and that looks perfect. It is great to hear people are putting in so much effective work into getting us out there, thanks. Good luck on the day! :) Take a note of good lottery numbers just in case they do send you back ;) @ Christoph, thanks for the thanks :) They were only suggestions so i don't mind if they get ignored. @ Everyone, sorry for the high volume of chatter from me. Hopefully i might calm down soon Good luck & merry Christmas everyone that is observant and everyone else i hope you have a good time too :) Regards from Tom :) From: Heinz W. Simoneit To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 22 December, 2010 12:13:49 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM! Hi, Florian Effenberger schrieb: > Good news everyone :-) > > I just received the following mail: > >> Your request for a stand of LibreOffice at FOSDEM 2010 has been >> accepted, and we will put the following at your disposal: >> - on Saturday from 10:00 to 18:00 and Sunday from 10:00 to 17:00, >> - 2 table(s) of 2 meter width and 1 meter depth, 2 seats per table, >> - most probably in the H building (subject to change), >> - best-effort wireless interenet and one(!) type C/E power plug. >> If you want to decline this offer, please tell us as soon as possible. >> >> We provide only one power plug per stand, but you can hook up several >> multi-socket power chords. Because we can not provide those for every >> stand, we must ask you to bring your own multi-socket power chords. >> >> To make the stands look more professional, we would also like to ask >> you to bring a table cloth that covers the table and the front of it. >> The front side is a very good place to put your logo and name in >> large on, this will increase your visibility. >> >> We will stick A4 sheets with your project name on the tables, so >> you'll know where to install stuff. The best time to build up your >> stands in the H building is around 09:00. From 09:30-10:00 the people >> start to rush in, heading for the opening talks. In the AW building, >> things are typically more quiet until the opening talks are finished, >> which is around 12:00. > > Yippieh! ;-) > > Florian > shouldn't it read: *2011* ? :-) Heinz -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Yep, their fault ;) Heinz W. Simoneit wrote on 2010-12-22 13.13: shouldn't it read: *2011* ?:-) -- Florian Effenberger Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi David :) Thanks :) I have a very specific agenda at the moment and got side-tracked by the website issue because of the sites i work on. The ones here look great. Images I really dislike jpgs because of the distortions they go through in editing. Png seems to get much less errors in compression and allows transparency and animation (obviously) and it's not a proprietary format but it is large. I tend to keep originals in png or high-quality jpg. Gif is very light-weight better for websites and is usually best for logos but its colour-range and other limitations means it can't always be used. With Gimp it is usually quite fast to "Save As.. " png first and then as gif so that you can fall-back on the png if the gif goes pixellated or weird. I hesitate to show the site i work on because my bosses actually prefer some very clunky and nasty things and i still haven't quite worked out how to sort templates in joomla so that article pages are restricted into the page defined in the template. They are fun to work with and a very noble & worthy cause tho :) http://www.cecf.co.uk Hmm, now you wont respect me lol. My criticisms of that site would fill volumes. Regards from Tom :) From: David Nelson To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 22 December, 2010 11:25:27 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status Hi Tom, :-) It was an interesting and thoughtful perspective, and thank you for taking the time to recount it. On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 18:33, Tom Davies wrote: > I prefer > http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink > because it has less information and looks prettier. > > Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and >seems > to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on Well, that is the way we'll probably go. This content was an "emergency job" intended to allow the site to be launched, and everything will be up for review. > http://test.libreoffice.org > took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of > milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. > Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? It's a .png. I did all the other screenshots as high-quality .jpg files because they are half to a third of the size, but the site's lead admin prefers .png because of resizing considerations. > By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no > information. We see pictures of smart people in suits looking at a flashy > computer. We see pictures of grannies leaning over toddlers both engaged with > whatever is going on on a more sensible looking computer. We see a young > attractive 'housewife' sitting on over-large creamy coloured sofa either posing > sexily or demurely (or both) and looking at a flashy laptop. If we ever see >the > screen then there is some simple pie-chart of bar-graph or sometimes they risk > showing a line-graph (for business users). Maybe you're right. We'll have a think about it over Christmas, because it looks like the site won't roll out until January. > Personally i do like the narrower format because i have not yet followed > 'everyone else' to widescreen. Also for me personally (probably fairly > typically for a linux user) i do prefer having useful information right there > fast without having to dig around for it and the picture is what i personally > like as a linux-user because it show me useful stuff. The info was well > written, compelling and succinct, telling me exactly the sorts of things that > people ask whenever they find me using OpenOffice (one that still has the Sun > logo). However, while it may be great for existing linux-users we are not > typical of the general population out-there that we need to reach. Well, where I live, very few people have wide screens. So what you say in that respect is an important consideration. I'm glad you liked the content. Maybe I'll just move it off the front page to another location, as you suggest. > I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. > The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away or > reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. See above... > I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest >to > completion whichever one that is. There are actually going to be two sites. One for LibreOffice, the software, and one for The Document Foundation, the "umbrella organization" fostering the project. > PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays Your thoughts were interesting and very enlightening. Please do stay around the project. If you'd like a suggestion of an area to get involved in, you might like to consider the documentation team. Do sign up for the list at documentation+subscr...@libreoffi
Re: [steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Hi, Florian Effenberger schrieb: > Good news everyone :-) > > I just received the following mail: > >> Your request for a stand of LibreOffice at FOSDEM 2010 has been >> accepted, and we will put the following at your disposal: >> - on Saturday from 10:00 to 18:00 and Sunday from 10:00 to 17:00, >> - 2 table(s) of 2 meter width and 1 meter depth, 2 seats per table, >> - most probably in the H building (subject to change), >> - best-effort wireless interenet and one(!) type C/E power plug. >> If you want to decline this offer, please tell us as soon as possible. >> >> We provide only one power plug per stand, but you can hook up several >> multi-socket power chords. Because we can not provide those for every >> stand, we must ask you to bring your own multi-socket power chords. >> >> To make the stands look more professional, we would also like to ask >> you to bring a table cloth that covers the table and the front of it. >> The front side is a very good place to put your logo and name in >> large on, this will increase your visibility. >> >> We will stick A4 sheets with your project name on the tables, so >> you'll know where to install stuff. The best time to build up your >> stands in the H building is around 09:00. From 09:30-10:00 the people >> start to rush in, heading for the opening talks. In the AW building, >> things are typically more quiet until the opening talks are finished, >> which is around 12:00. > > Yippieh! ;-) > > Florian > shouldn't it read: *2011* ? :-) Heinz -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi, :-) On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 18:33, Tom Davies wrote: > PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays My favorite cartoon is Dilbert [1] ... At least one knows one isn't alone in one's views. ;-D [1] http://dilbert.com/register/ David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi :) I think it is more important to tantalise our target market, to get them keen to try it. Satisfying people is unhelpful as we need people motivated rather than complacent. Curiosity enticed me into trying Linux and then outrage at the realisation of the amount of time wasted for me by MicroSquish systems (that are designed to be vulnerable and difficult to fix) encouraged me to stay. The question is how can we encourage others to try OpenSource? Perhaps a similar route to mine or a different one per person. How do other products market themselves? Our/your product is better but how do we get people to want to try it? Regards from Tom :) From: Christoph Noack To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 22 December, 2010 11:24:34 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status Hi Tom! Am Mittwoch, den 22.12.2010, 10:33 + schrieb Tom Davies: > Hi David :) > > I prefer > http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink > because it has less information and looks prettier. > > Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and >seems > > to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on Well, there is no "the people" ... there are people having different requirements and living/working in different environments. Some guys want to have in-depth information in advance, some consume basic information and just want to give things a try. Thus, it is not about hiding information, but to provide it step-by-step - managing the concept what people can grasp. That is why I think that we miss the requirements of quite some users at the moment ... > http://test.libreoffice.org > took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of > milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. > > Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? Same for me ... > By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no > information. [...] > > I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. > > The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away > or > reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. Yep. > I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest >to > > completion whichever one that is. I'd say ... whatever helps us to satisfy the needs of the majority of our users. So even if it might take some additional work, it seems worth the effort. > Regards from > Tom :) > > PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays Sorry to hear that :-\ Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[steering-discuss] We have a stand at FOSDEM!
Good news everyone :-) I just received the following mail: Your request for a stand of LibreOffice at FOSDEM 2010 has been accepted, and we will put the following at your disposal: - on Saturday from 10:00 to 18:00 and Sunday from 10:00 to 17:00, - 2 table(s) of 2 meter width and 1 meter depth, 2 seats per table, - most probably in the H building (subject to change), - best-effort wireless interenet and one(!) type C/E power plug. If you want to decline this offer, please tell us as soon as possible. We provide only one power plug per stand, but you can hook up several multi-socket power chords. Because we can not provide those for every stand, we must ask you to bring your own multi-socket power chords. To make the stands look more professional, we would also like to ask you to bring a table cloth that covers the table and the front of it. The front side is a very good place to put your logo and name in large on, this will increase your visibility. We will stick A4 sheets with your project name on the tables, so you'll know where to install stuff. The best time to build up your stands in the H building is around 09:00. From 09:30-10:00 the people start to rush in, heading for the opening talks. In the AW building, things are typically more quiet until the opening talks are finished, which is around 12:00. Yippieh! ;-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi Tom, :-) It was an interesting and thoughtful perspective, and thank you for taking the time to recount it. On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 18:33, Tom Davies wrote: > I prefer > http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink > because it has less information and looks prettier. > > Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and > seems > to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on Well, that is the way we'll probably go. This content was an "emergency job" intended to allow the site to be launched, and everything will be up for review. > http://test.libreoffice.org > took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of > milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. > Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? It's a .png. I did all the other screenshots as high-quality .jpg files because they are half to a third of the size, but the site's lead admin prefers .png because of resizing considerations. > By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no > information. We see pictures of smart people in suits looking at a flashy > computer. We see pictures of grannies leaning over toddlers both engaged with > whatever is going on on a more sensible looking computer. We see a young > attractive 'housewife' sitting on over-large creamy coloured sofa either > posing > sexily or demurely (or both) and looking at a flashy laptop. If we ever see > the > screen then there is some simple pie-chart of bar-graph or sometimes they risk > showing a line-graph (for business users). Maybe you're right. We'll have a think about it over Christmas, because it looks like the site won't roll out until January. > Personally i do like the narrower format because i have not yet followed > 'everyone else' to widescreen. Also for me personally (probably fairly > typically for a linux user) i do prefer having useful information right there > fast without having to dig around for it and the picture is what i personally > like as a linux-user because it show me useful stuff. The info was well > written, compelling and succinct, telling me exactly the sorts of things that > people ask whenever they find me using OpenOffice (one that still has the Sun > logo). However, while it may be great for existing linux-users we are not > typical of the general population out-there that we need to reach. Well, where I live, very few people have wide screens. So what you say in that respect is an important consideration. I'm glad you liked the content. Maybe I'll just move it off the front page to another location, as you suggest. > I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. > The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away or > reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. See above... > I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest > to > completion whichever one that is. There are actually going to be two sites. One for LibreOffice, the software, and one for The Document Foundation, the "umbrella organization" fostering the project. > PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays Your thoughts were interesting and very enlightening. Please do stay around the project. If you'd like a suggestion of an area to get involved in, you might like to consider the documentation team. Do sign up for the list at documentation+subscr...@libreoffice.org if you have time to give. We're a small team, but we are acquiring some fine members - we don't discuss quite so much as on the other lists, but the team members are cooperative, friendly people who quietly *produce* high quality work. ;-) Thanks for your feedback, and read you next time. :-) David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi Tom! Am Mittwoch, den 22.12.2010, 10:33 + schrieb Tom Davies: > Hi David :) > > I prefer > http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink > because it has less information and looks prettier. > > Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and > seems > to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on Well, there is no "the people" ... there are people having different requirements and living/working in different environments. Some guys want to have in-depth information in advance, some consume basic information and just want to give things a try. Thus, it is not about hiding information, but to provide it step-by-step - managing the concept what people can grasp. That is why I think that we miss the requirements of quite some users at the moment ... > http://test.libreoffice.org > took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of > milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. > > Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? Same for me ... > By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no > information. [...] > > I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. > > The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away > or > reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. Yep. > I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest > to > completion whichever one that is. I'd say ... whatever helps us to satisfy the needs of the majority of our users. So even if it might take some additional work, it seems worth the effort. > Regards from > Tom :) > > PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays Sorry to hear that :-\ Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi David :) I prefer http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink because it has less information and looks prettier. Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and seems to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on http://test.libreoffice.org took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no information. We see pictures of smart people in suits looking at a flashy computer. We see pictures of grannies leaning over toddlers both engaged with whatever is going on on a more sensible looking computer. We see a young attractive 'housewife' sitting on over-large creamy coloured sofa either posing sexily or demurely (or both) and looking at a flashy laptop. If we ever see the screen then there is some simple pie-chart of bar-graph or sometimes they risk showing a line-graph (for business users). Personally i do like the narrower format because i have not yet followed 'everyone else' to widescreen. Also for me personally (probably fairly typically for a linux user) i do prefer having useful information right there fast without having to dig around for it and the picture is what i personally like as a linux-user because it show me useful stuff. The info was well written, compelling and succinct, telling me exactly the sorts of things that people ask whenever they find me using OpenOffice (one that still has the Sun logo). However, while it may be great for existing linux-users we are not typical of the general population out-there that we need to reach. I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away or reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest to completion whichever one that is. Regards from Tom :) PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays From: David Nelson To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 22 December, 2010 9:54:34 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status Hi Tom, :-) Interesting thoughts. ;-) But, actually, the site under discussion is http://test.libreoffice.org What are your thoughts on that one? David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi Tom, :-) Interesting thoughts. ;-) But, actually, the site under discussion is http://test.libreoffice.org What are your thoughts on that one? David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi :) I like the way the website is at the moment. I also quite like the proposed screenshot except that i would prefer the download button on the left so that people can access it without having to scroll sideways. Ok, it may not be perfect for everyone but what we have got works well. It might be a good time to stand back from the website and look at what we have while we push forwards in other strategic areas. Perfection is a great goal but we need to get basics in place first and we seem to already have more than that with the website. It is pleasant, informative, uncluttered and fast. It is easy to reach the download buttons. Do we really need it more perfect than it is already? I think congratulations are due to everyone involved and it is great that we have ideas building up and being finalised but i am not sure we have to action them hastily? Anarchy? My background is mostly in co-operative organisations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative but i agree that getting work done can be more important than discussions as long as there is room to make changes or revert to previous versions after-the-fact. I don't see this as a contradiction but many people new to co-operatives or other non-hierarchical structures often assume that discussion about every tiny point is vital. It isn't. Getting the job done is usually far more important. The wider group may set policy or determine "house/company style" based on early experimentation. Anyone 'should' be free to express an opinion and "stupid questions" may reveal a possibility for useful innovation but the people doing the work have to be free to get on with the work. Ideas and suggestions are good if they help get the work done but if they are not immediately useful they 'should' be ignored or allowed to grow into something more useful later. Anyone 'should' be free to do sundry jobs under the direction of the main worker(s) as though being mentored for a while if that helps get the work done. It sometimes helps to split into 'temporary' roles such as one person/group working mainly on content and the other mainly on look-and-feel, each able to make suggestions to the other team/person. Note that 4/5 (80%) of new businesses FAIL in the first 2 years when they are set up in a "traditional" hierarchical format with 1 top boss dictating and no-one else feeling like they have any ownership of the project. By contrast only 2/5 (40%) of new worker co-operatives fail in the first 2 years. Innovation is crucial and we seldom get that from 1 single leader. The trick is getting people empowered, perhaps helping finding/developing their best area, so they can work on the projects too. I don't really think we need to discuss this now and it might be disruptive to do so. It is worth considering that we need a more fluid dynamic here than most people are used to in the outside world. I hope this helps otherwise just ignore it! Good luck and regards from Tom :) From: David Nelson To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 22 December, 2010 0:54:11 Subject: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status Hi, :-) On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 07:39, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > Hi David, all, > > once again, please don't think I would not appreciate your great work, even > if I try to improve the "look and feel" of the welcome page. > Please have a look at Christoph's proposal: > http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink I must admit that, personally, I don't find this layout attractive at all, although it gives some general indicators about content positioning. > I'm sorry, that I can't design a mockup at the moment. Time is short even > for adding the short phases... I *have* read your ideas, and will carefully read them and think about them again as I finish off this first version of the site content. I am doing my best to take account of your comments and the comments of other people in what I'm doing. But, sometimes, the proposals and reactions are so sharply contrasting that it is difficult or impossible to please everybody. The problem is that it is *extremely* difficult to work in the current situation: it's a kind of contributive anarchy, with no-one having a clearly-appointed lead role in particular areas of the project. Thus, the only conclusion you can arrive at is this: the people that actually *do* work are the ones that get to call the shots. If they are good community members, they will do their best to take account of other people's opinions. But, in many cases, one has to take a decision, and the decision will inevitably dissatisfy someone. Such is the case in what I'm presently doing. I observed how, after long discussions on the mailing lists and various conference calls, the website team had failed to put any IA together, and
