Re: [board-discuss] Harassment and lack of code of conduct

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Eike Rathke
 wrote:
> On Thursday, 2017-01-12 12:24:47 +0100, Katarina Behrens wrote:
>
>> it has been brought to my attention that one of our (female) contributors, 
>> who
>> is also a TDF member (this is why membership committee is in Cc:) has been
>> harassed in a private mail by someone who reads development and general user
>> mailing list.
>
> This is of course inacceptable.

It definitely is. But what I am asking myself is:
How would a Code of Conduct help here? I mean people not using common
sense wouldn't suddenly change because there is a code of conduct.

Even more so in the case of using private mail and not using any of
the TDF hosted mailinglists.

>> This is quite a strong incentive for me to bring up the topic that is
>> perceived as controversial by many, namely (the lack of) code of conduct in
>> the community around TDF and (the absence of) action plan, as for what to do,
>> when bad things happen.

So what *could* be done? Tell that person he/she is a persona non
grata with that behaviour, but apart from that?

>> The most frequent (and in fact the only) argument I hear when mentioning code
>> of conduct, or the fact that TDF has no code of conduct to be precise, is 
>> "but
>> but but, we're such a bunch of nice guys, nothing bad has ever happened here,
>> nobody has ever been harassed, so why bother, why restrict freedom of speech
>> preemptively etc."

While I'm not opposing a code of conduct, my point is rather that it
wouldn't help, as there's not much TDF could do to prevent such
incidents, if at all only afterwards, but as you say the attacked
hesitate to bring it to attention.
(so a code of conduct without a dedicated point-of-contact for those
issues would be even more pointless)

> I agree we'll need such code of conduct. Even if we are (or were?)
> a bunch of only friendly people it would be no reason to not have one to
> make others feel more safe and secure who are not yet.
>
> Personally I like the Berlin Code of Conduct
> http://berlincodeofconduct.org/
> which is already supported by various user and hacker groups.
>
> If agreed, I suggest we make a formal decision at Bruxelles during our
> meet-ups along FOSDEM.

So say we have adopted the above CoC, and something like a PM
harassment occurs. What can TDF do? revoke TDF membership and revoke
editing/commit privileges. There's not much leverage unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not opposing a CoC, after all it
should be common sense anyway, but I just don't think it is a magic
wand that will help. But if it makes feel people better more assured
in bringing those incidents to TDF's attention, that alone would be
reason enough to have one.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] offsite website backup

[Christian Lohmaier]

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
eagles051...@gmail.com wrote:
 Emailed them no response

What is this then?
http://www.mail-archive.com/website@global.libreoffice.org/msg05664.html

a reply withing 20 minutes of your post. Please don't call this no response.

You surely won't get any bonus or credibility points for that...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] wording on TDF website

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:59 AM, David Nelson li...@traduction.biz wrote:

 I'm assuming this the item you're talking about:

 It is an independent self-governing meritocratic Foundation, created
 by leading members of the OpenOffice.org Community.

Why not change it to ... currently in the process of being
established ... and link to your blogpost describing the current
status?
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/07/12/status-of-establishing-the-foundation/

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] SC calls via Mumble or OpenMeetings

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Jonathan, *,

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
eagles051...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 29/06/2011 14:22, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
 eagles051...@gmail.com  wrote:
 On 29/06/2011 12:00, Christian Lohmaier wrote:

 Username is your own choice. If you got a IRC-nick you're known by,
 just use that.
 [...]
 Ill have to try again i seem to be having issues creating a username and
 password,

There is no password involved. Authentification/Encryption works with
the certificates

 but i guess ill have to create my own certificate or something on
 that no?

Yes, just use the mumble wizard and have it create a certificate for
you. When you start mumble for the first time, it should have prompted
you with a dialog to either import an existing one, or create a
self-signed one. The certificate is used to encrypt the communication,
very similar to https.
The certificate is also used for authentication for special
user-rights (like creating channels, and all .)

If you were not offered the wizards on first launch, you should also
run the audio-setup wizard manually.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] SC calls via Mumble or OpenMeetings

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Florian, *,

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 The current phone conference infrastructure provides a lot of dial-in
 numbers. It has its drawbacks, like some countries missing and the web
 interface only available in German. However, some other problems are not to
 be fixed with that, like

 * time zone
 * availability of a phone or local dial-in
 * availability of broadband internet

Good thing about mumble is that it doesn't require broadband connection
http://mumble.sourceforge.net/FAQ/English#What_are_the_bandwidth_requirements.3F

With top quality, minimum latency and positional information sent, it
is 133.6 kbit/s including the IP and UDP overhead. With 60 ms
transmission delay, the lowest quality speech and no positional
information, it is 17.4 kbit/s (again with IP and UDP overhead). The
default quality setting uses 58.8 kbit/s.

So even with a modem dial-up, you should be fine.

 Setting up an own Asterisk or FreeSwitch server cannot solve all problems
 either, as we can not get local dial-ins for a good price. It would cost us
 hundreds of EUR per month if we do it totally on our own.

I agree - so the ideal solution would just hook both traditional
phone-lines and mumble together. That would require one system that
can dial in to talkyoo and acts as a bridge to mumble - i.e. a
softphone that listen on both and forwards to both. (Well, depending
on how well echo-cancellation works, one might need two
one-directional systems here.

 So, my take for the basic conferences is to use talkyoo as we do now, and
 try to get more people in by using either Skype,

When you mention Skype, you have the same/worse bandwidth requirements

 or our own Asterisk.
 However, for that to happen, I need *feedback* from those affected by
 missing local dial-in numbers whether they can use Skype, or in which
 country they are, so we can check for dial-in numbers.

For me, it is not just about dial-in numbers. WIth talkyoo system,
there is a vast difference in quality in the participants,
specifically the volume of the various speakers, one very faint, the
other really loud, sometimes lots of background noise,...
mumble has a audio-setup-wizard that helps setting up the microphone
levels, etc. (although it is not trivial to get the system's
microphone settings right on all systems - you must not echo the
microphone directly to the speakers for example - and the default
gnome-mixer-applet doesn't offer a switch for that, so you have to
resort to gnome-alsamixer/another mixer-application to configure it m-
similar problems on Windows (probably depends on hardware and the
corresponding driver-software)
Mumble has the advantage that it also offers visual indication when
someone speaks (red lips = talking, grey lips = user is not
talking) - so its easier to follow a discussion when you don't
recognize people by their voice, and its easier to not talk
simultaneously without noticing (a loud speaker cancelling out a
faint speaker).
Additionally, there is the possibility to have written notices (to
paste URLs and similar)

 My impression is that a lot of people who can dial-in anyways are working on
 the topic, but feedback from the affected people is missing. It doesn't help
 having Mumble, when colleagues from another country cannot join anyways, as
 they have only slow internet.

Well, indeed. That's the real dealbreaker here.

 So, again, *please*, those who cannot join the conferences, but *want* to
 (this is important as well!), *please* give feedback on why and what your
 preferred solution would be.

If you want to try out mumble with someone, don't hesitate to announce
a time when you want to test it - I'm sure there will be someone who
can assist/help by joining the channel (after all you cannot test
bidirectional communication when you're the only person in the room
:-)

 That's for the majority of phone conferences. Of course, there will be some
 special conferences where something like OpenMeetings comes in handy.

I'd not call it conferences.. OpenMeetings is more for presentations,
where one person talks and other people are mainly listening. For that
it provides the whiteboard (i.e. you can show a presentation and draw
on the slides) and also video (but when using those features of course
you need the bandwidth again). It relies on flash, and is much more
difficult to use compared to mumble (and there is no way (at least not
obvious to me) on how to adjust the microphone level, so at least on
my system the level would be way too low, people won't hear me...)

But again I second Florian's question:
Those who are affected by the lack of dial-in numbers provided by
talkyoo - what would be the best alternative in your opinion?
( ) Skype
( ) OpenMeetings
( ) Mumble
( ) neither, need regular landline number
( ) other, please specify ___

Alternatively, you might point out why a given solution is not a valid
alternative (I cannot use xxx 

Re: [steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

I'll only give short feedback on the suggested names

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 My plan is actually to have something like

        volunteer.nickn...@libreofficecommunity.org

+1 (long, but fits)

 or
        volunteer.nickn...@libreofficemail.org

-1 (sounds like it would be a webmail service like gmail, gmx, web.de, )

 or
        volunteer.nickn...@libreofficevolunteers.org

-1 (I just prefer the community one - with volunteer there is a
(slight) distinction  between community members that are paid by
someone, and those who only spend their spare time - at lest in my
brain :-)))

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Decisions about libreoffice.org English main site management

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 11:33 AM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:

 I'd like to suggest that there should be an editing team officially appointed:

An editing team is a good idea, however

 - one *English NL* executive editor (with publishing/admin powers),

one is not enough, as one might be ill/on vacation, etc.

Also it doesn't quite fit in the community idea

 - Charles Schulz, Florian Effenberger and Italo Vignoli as managing
 editors (with publishing/admin powers).

I'd rather have more of managing editors - not sure whether there
needs to be a dedicate executive editor position, but rather a couple
of managing editors
But same as above, the list is too short, esp. as those people are
heavily involved in other areas.

To kick-start it, it might be enough, but it should quickly be
expanded to include other people who have contributed in a reasonable
fashion/have proven that they are capable of the task.

 - one person from Design, Christoph Noack, with author powers, to
 consult with about buttons and images. I don't otherwise see the
 Design team playing much of a role in the running of the website,
 beyond ensuring compliance with the graphic charter (which is
 principally imposed by the theme).

-1 Especially in terms of design, artworkt, etc. you cannot have
enough contributors.

Having one peer contact: Yes, this is desireable (i.e. one who
forwards the requests of the website team and reports back the results
of the design team).
As it is hard enough to get artwork to put up on the site, you
shouldn't artificially limit the amount of possible contributors by
only having one person with powers.

 - one or two technical administrators: Christian Lohmaier and Erich
 Christian (with admin powers). My suggestion would be that they do
 limit themselves to *technical* administration alone, without any
 interest in the content side (this is what they currently do with the
 other NL sites).

This should be no problem, as at least we two have other areas to work
with as well :-)
However I surely have an interest in the content part, since the
content in the end determines what features to add to the site, etc.
Focus surely is on the technical part.

 - one contributors team, principally of English NL speakers (each
 member with author powers).

Yes, success or failure all depends on the contributors.

 IMHO, if you organize things like this, you will have a tool that is
 efficiently run and that will provide TDF with the most-effective
 marketing platform.

 If you allow the site to be run in a chaotic, uncontrolled manner, I
 think you'll lose a lot of the benefit it could otherwise bring the
 foundation.

Well, I somewhat disagree here. I guess the biggest problem wrt the
english site is/was that there has not been an english native-lang
project within the OOo-project, thus there was no group like for
example in the french and german NL-projects that were already
familiar with working together on website content and familiar with
collaborating in an opensource project.

English content on the OOo website has been created by lots of
different people, none being in an english project, over a rather
long period of time.
The OOo website redesign was a lengthy process, but involved a lot of
people (which was a good thing). I think it is worth to get back to
that working style, although it sometimes introduces unnecessary
delays or lengthy discussions - we won't have the time pressure
anymore.

 In any case, may I encourage you to take some clear decisions about
 this over the next few days?

+1 for having a dedicated Publisher/Reviewer group for proofreading
the submissions, dealing as contact-point for new contributors, but
-1 for limiting that group to such a small group of people, esp. you
definitely need to involve design/artwork more.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Re: Decisions about libreoffice.org English main site management

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:

 To do that job, I would ask - for a period of 4 months, subsequently
 renewable on condition of the SC's approval - for complete authority
 and final veto on all content on the libreoffice.org website.

I have to agree with the others that I don't like this way of handling
the situation.

I'm rather with Michael: Whose who do the work have the say anyway.

 I want
 to be considered *the boss* of the libreoffice.org website, and my
 decisions would only be overridden by a majority vote of SC members.
 Anything short of that, my decision wins.

I'd rather prefer if that would not be needed in the first place -
being the boss because one is the person who does the work gives me a
better feeling than I'm the boss because that's written on my
nametag

 This would give me the necessary authority to try some imaginative and
 ambitious plans that I will put to Marketing.

Well - in that case I even more have to say -1
If you're the only one to think your plans are great (and in only this
case you'd need to have Boss-powers), then I'd rather not follow
that plan. If other people agree, then you're the boss because you're
driving things forward.

 I would ask for the title of Executive editor of the libreoffice.org
 website. The only reason I have for asking for this title is that it
 gives me a handle to use in relations with outside parties, such as
 the press.

Regarding representing the TDF/the project to the press, others have
responded already.

 [...]
 What do you say, guys? ;-) Can we try this experiment and see what it 
 produces?

I'd say now (but I'm no SC member) - the goals of the TDF are to drive
community collaboration in the end, not one party can do as they
please.
Experience, and actual contribution/work done should weigh more than a
title. That is nothing wrong with giving you a title Executive
editor - but the I can veto whatever I want part is what I don't
agree with. I'm sure you wouldn't abuse that power, but is the message
it signals to the outside, the principle behind it that doesn't please
me.

The community should be ruled based on rationale decisions, on
discussions where people can provide input, etc (and that quality of
the opinion/person behind it weighs more than just quantity of votes).
Having a mini-dictatorship is OK for special cases, but is not a
long-term situation.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *;

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:25 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 18:33, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 It's a .png. I did all the other screenshots as high-quality .jpg
 files because they are half to a third of the size, but the site's
 lead admin prefers .png because of resizing considerations.

That was a misunderstanding then. I wrote for origininal size
screenshots, png is almost everytime superior to jpeg. But the more
you resize, the more fuzz is added to the image, jpeg then provides
better compression.
So to summarize:
* png for real-size screenshots, never jpeg (unless the screenshots
shows draw showing a photograph or similar)
* jpeg is OK for thumbnails, resized screenshots

 Maybe you're right. We'll have a think about it over Christmas,
 because it looks like the site won't roll out until January.

Ho ho ho :-) Santa has a present for you :-) - site is live - yay :-)

 [...]

Merry Christmas to everyone :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:05 AM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 05:38, Bernhard Dippold
 bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:

Twitter and blog in
 the scrolling area are ok, but I think a news area is more important
 than those tow.

 Christian, is there a dedicated news/blogging module for SilverStripe?

Well - there is a blog module, yes (meant for providing blogs
yourself), and regarding news: You can of course add a news section as
well. Similar to how the FAQ-items are automatically collected, one
can collect news items.
And you can create a area on the page that shows the X latest news entries.

The basics on how to do it are laid out in the basic tutorials of silverstripe
http://doc.silverstripe.org/tutorial:2-extending-a-basic-site

If it is just about providing an RSS feed: You can turn pretty much
everything into a RSS feed with silverstripe...

The real questions is: Do we want to add news via the CMS or not.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 05:38, Bernhard Dippold
 bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote:
 [...]
 IMHO, I would scrap the current theme and make a new one. I've never
 done a SilverStripe theme before, but once you've hacked themes for a
 couple of CMS's, you can hack them for another.

You don't hack a theme for silverstripe, you create a css for nicely
created HTML :-))

The cms specific parts should be reduced to a minimum, as I think the
html it creates is semantic enough, and not layout-dependent :-)

 I bet it would only
 take me a few days. If one of you SilverSite CSS/theming gurus helped
 out, I bet we could do it even quicker...

Well, I wouldn't tackle this.
Feedback from the marketing/design/branding front is rather sparse, as
very few people have time these days, so I fear that it ends up like
Nice, you got a theme, but unfortunately it doesn't match our vision
for future branding or similar

I personally don't like the libreofficeaustralia theme as it is now.
Header much too high, language selection doesn't work (something
opens, but that something is covered almost entirely by grey
background, no selection possioble, etc.
Visit it with german locale and you're locked out basically, as it
then also doesn't even offer navigation, etc. So from first looks:
Nah, needs work.

 Florian, Christian, if you gave me access to SSH/FTP into
 http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/ then I could set a new theme up there

No need to have access, the theme is in git:
https://github.com/tdf/cms-themes you can download a zip or tar.gz
there using the download button and you can create an export of the
site using
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/StaticExporter/export?baseurl=relative
This will get you a html.tar.gz  - copy the cms-themes folder of the
git download into the html folder as html/themes

Then hack around. Don't bother about the silvertsripe templates, just
add the html you wish there would be, I can then adapt the templates.
The templates are included in the cms-themes as well, so feel free to
have a look, it needs some refactoring anyway, (move common parts to
includes, do less duplication), but they are pretty straightforward in
either case.
http://doc.silverstripe.org/templates

 What do you think, guys?

See above. A redesign will very likely have to wait until people are
able to provide input. The discussion on how the navigation should
look for example didn't receive much feedback yet, so whatever you
would do, it would be on a very fragile basis.

 a) We'd get a lot more flexibility with the content.
 b) If ever there is a changeover to a Drupal site, there will be no
 visual break... the roll-over could be almost invisible.

This is a non-argument. Drupal can adapt to whatever we create on
silverstripe, etc.

 PPPS: The graphic on the main page links to http:///download/ (not a
 relative link...)

 I know. I had to hack the HTML/CSS to make the shuffler look OK.

Huh? What does the link have to do with it? You already fixed the
images, the link is completely independent of the
images/photo-shuffler. But I'll fix it nevertheless...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status

[Christian Lohmaier]

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 4:09 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 I thought Joomla was far easier to use than Drupal and has a much larger 
 faster community?  SilverLight website looks very dated or is it just
 starting-up?

Please don't start trolling. 1st of all it is SilverStripe, not
SilverLight, 2nd if oyu know Joomla, Drupal, etc. Then you should know
that the look is independent of the CMS. What it looks like depends on
how you define the css.

You can make the site look like whatever you want. So please: Don't
argument pro/against a cms by the looks of the css. And yes, it is
starting up, and no, the design is not new, it is closely based on the
documentfoundation.org theme.
We're aware that it is not the nicest theme around there, but if you
want to be constructive, join the webs...@libreoffice.org mailinglist
and/or the design/marketing lists.

There have been various requests for comments, but people are too busy
to spend a considerable amount of time into it right now. There have
been a few proposals, but none of the drupal folks did comment on them
either, and the drupal team did not pick those up either.

So I don't consider the druapl site's theme any better in this regard.
Closed-shop work unfortunately. Instead of working on defining the
look of the site *right now* they prefer working behind closed doors
on the drupal site without providing feedback on the public
mailinglists. I don't like this at all.

It is good to see progress, but when this progress is on a completely
seperate track than the community discussion about the topic, then it
doesn't help at all.

Great. now this post turned into a rant again, but well, be it…

ciao
Christian

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