Re: Googlism, a bit of fun among the grimm
http://www.googlism.com/ Vilyehm Teighlore Ha! My alter ego does not exist. William Taylor --- Well that's just too plain boring. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Verifying the US Constitution (Was: religion is evil...)
At 20:05 29-11-2002 -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote: No one has responded to my (much) earlier question Questions that remain unanswered (even the explicitly non-rhetorical ones) are not all that uncommon here. Hang around here for a few years, and you will get used to it. Jeroen Moderation is evil, why it must be eradicated van Baardwijk ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bush Seeks To Roll-Back Clean Air Rules
Matthew and Julie Bos wrote: When you are looking at a power plant that is in the neighborhood of 30 years old, a fifteen percent increase in efficiency is not really unheard of. Computer modeling has come a long way since the 70's. The bottom line being that 15% is too much to expect in most cases, that 15% in some of the older plants still makes them much less efficient than newer plants, and that efficiency doesn't always translate into cleaner operation. Spewing carcinogens? Do you write script for the Democratic Party? (I really think the Democrats should come up with a flash animation of Bush tossing a old lady in a wheelchair down a smokestack for this one.) Are these the same coal plants that have despite a tripling of coal usage managed to cut the total emission of nitrogen oxide and sulfur dioxide? I know you haven't mentioned it yet (why would you? :)) but the Clean Air targets which would reduce emissions by fifty percent were not touched by by the new rules. Hmm, do you have to be a Democrat to be susceptible to mercury or dioxins? Ohio plants alone released more than 1,600 lbs of mercury in 1998 and the state has issued warnings about eating fish caught in their waters. Dioxins are released in much smaller numbers, but are also thought to pose health risks even at very low levels. And of course the pollution Ohio creates doesn't just pollute Ohio. That's why a group of Northeast states are threatening to suit to prevent the changes from taking effect. In my example the destructive power plant (which by the way had a 650 million dollar upgrade to meet new nitrogen oxide standards) was trying to be more efficient producing energy. I thought that was the goal. Greens (and I don't know that you are one) always push for increases of CAFÉ standards for cars and light trucks. Why does this logic not work for utilities? Why do they have to tear down existing power plants to comply with rules that are written for new power plants? Does the government have the right to sue people into buying new cars when their old cars no longer meets smog standards? The old standards worked fine. They are a great idea. I am fully in support of newer cleaner technology. I believe that in the long term it is the best for people, the environment, and power companies. The Clinton EPA after changing the new source review rules found that eighty percent of the nation's utilities were outside of the new regulations. So instead of questioning what's wrong here, they decided the best way to proceed is by lawsuit. But then again the Clinton administration was excellent at making short term, stopgap measures that looked good for the environment, but in the long term actually decreased the quality of life (by increased energy costs). :) http://www.eenews.net/sr_nsr2.htm This is a pretty good reference on the New Source Review. One industry document provided to Greenwire by NRDC may stand out as contrary evidence to the industry argument that EPA has not historically enforced NSR requirements. In 1984, the Electric Power Research Institute published a number of consensus points that it had gathered among work group participants at a Washington conference on fossil-fuel power plant life extensions. The report was done at a particularly significant time in the debate -- when many utilities opted to replace parts at their existing facilities because it would be cheaper than building new plants, Hawkins said. According to the EPRI document, the utility officials concluded it may be appropriate to downplay the life extension aspects of its major projects by referring to them as plant restoration projects. EPRI also suggested that air quality regulatory issues associated with these projects should be dealt with at the state and local level and not elevated to the status of national environmental issues. Further, the organization said project elements should be stressed as maintenance-related activities to maximize chances for NSR exemptions. Utility accounting practices play a significant role here, the document says. So we have the industry trying to extend the lives of the plants that pollute the most by working around the rules. It is unfortunate that one of the only ways we have to impose our values on consciousless corporations is to sue them, but there is often no alternative. Did you know that one of the most popular investments for average Americans are the utility companies? I would like to keep them profitable, thereby creating the fortunes of average Americans. I do wish the Greens in this country would actually build a power plant just so we can see how its done. But then again, how would they pay for all their lawyers? I'm not an authority, but I'll bet that there are a fair number of utilities that are more environmentally conscious than the others. Invest in them and not those that seek to circumvent the rules and you'll be doing
Kingdom of the Spiders
Apologies if this has been posted already, but an enormous colony of spiders covered 60 acres of land in British Columbia, Canada. Click below for pictures. I had no idea spiders were even *capable* of working together! http://cbc.ca/news/features/spiderweb/# Not for the arachnophobic. :) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: religion is evil, why it must be eradicated
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ultra-radical fast food terrorists kidnap the mayor of St. Louis. Will be released once the Gateway Arch is painted bright yellow. Then the giant mirror will be built just next to it. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fast food is evil, why it must be eradicated
In a message dated 11/30/2002 4:01:36 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ultra-radical fast food terrorists kidnap the mayor of St. Louis. Will be released once the Gateway Arch is painted bright yellow. Then the giant mirror will be built just next to it. - jmh Alright, ya got me. I'm missing the punchline. No fast food place uses mirrors in its advertising campaigns. If it's science fiction, it's something I haven't read or have forgotten. I'm mentally perched on the rickity plank over the tub of cold water waiting for your fastball pitch. William Taylor - Non-swimmer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fast food is evil, why it must be eradicated
On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 06:14:52PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No fast food place uses mirrors in its advertising campaigns. If it's science fiction, it's something I haven't read or have forgotten. I'm mentally perched on the rickity plank over the tub of cold water waiting for your fastball pitch. How many arches does the typical McDonald's have out front? -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fast food is evil, why it must be eradicated
In a message dated 11/30/2002 4:47:42 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No fast food place uses mirrors in its advertising campaigns. If it's science fiction, it's something I haven't read or have forgotten. I'm mentally perched on the rickity plank over the tub of cold water waiting for your fastball pitch. How many arches does the typical McDonald's have out front? That's to damn e a s y Splash Little Jim: He's fallen in the water! Actually, one of the oldest McDonalds that was in Phoenix did not have the M double arch. It had a single arch on each side built into the building. No inside seating. They tore it down just to build a fool twenty story office tower. A new standard cookie cutter clone McDonalds was built a half mile south. So I'm just a slow thinker by three decades or so. William Taylor -- Totallyun.org..sallfolks ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fast food is evil, why it must be eradicated
At 06:14 PM 11/30/02 -0500, William Taylor wrote: In a message dated 11/30/2002 4:01:36 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Ultra-radical fast food terrorists kidnap the mayor of St. Louis. Will be released once the Gateway Arch is painted bright yellow. Then the giant mirror will be built just next to it. - jmh Alright, ya got me. I'm missing the punchline. No fast food place uses mirrors in its advertising campaigns. If it's science fiction, it's something I haven't read or have forgotten. How about: Then another identically-painted arch will be built next to it. I'm mentally perched on the rickity plank over the tub of cold water waiting for your fastball pitch. You deserve a break today. No cold water (this time). Y = 693.8597'¹ - 68.7672 Cosh (0.0100333 X) Maru --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle _ ¹211.4884m for Alberto ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fast food is evil, why it must be eradicated
In a message dated 11/30/2002 8:08:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alright, ya got me. I'm missing the punchline. No fast food place uses mirrors in its advertising campaigns. If it's science fiction, it's something I haven't read or have forgotten. How about: Then another identically-painted arch will be built next to it. I was actually looking at that durn mirror in three dimensions. You have to be at just the right angle to make the arch look double. Geez, I was thinking like a dolphin. William Taylor - Do Valley Mermaids shop at the Primal? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: fast food is evil, why it must be eradicated
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Then another identically-painted arch will be built next to it. I was actually looking at that durn mirror in three dimensions. You have to be at just the right angle to make the arch look double. OK, OK. It was a bad joke. But I couldn't resist... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bush Seeks To Roll-Back Clean Air Rules
On 11/30/02 3:41 PM, Doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, do you have to be a Democrat to be susceptible to mercury or dioxins? Ohio plants alone released more than 1,600 lbs of mercury in 1998 and the state has issued warnings about eating fish caught in their waters. Dioxins are released in much smaller numbers, but are also thought to pose health risks even at very low levels. And of course the pollution Ohio creates doesn't just pollute Ohio. That's why a group of Northeast states are threatening to suit to prevent the changes from taking effect. No you don't have to be a Democrat to be susceptible to mercury or dioxins. It is, however, a big stretch to shift the blame to a particular group for a problem that has existed since the burning of coal as a fuel. You will not get any disagreement from me that the reduction of mercury is a worthwhile goal. What's being done about it? I am glad you asked. From the article: http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/06/06262001/mercury_44092.asp An excerpt from the article: Cherokee Station coal-powered plant, Denver, Colorado. The Public Service Company of Colorado relies primarily on coal for power generation at the Cherokee Station and its other power plants. A mercury emissions control system now used on municipal waste incinerators is being adapted to function on coal-fired power plants by Consol Inc. of Library, Pennsylvania. The system is expected to remove not only mercury but also sulfur pollutants that can create visible plumes and contaminate other pollution control devices. The Consol project is one of six new projects selected by the U.S. Department of Energy to curb mercury emissions from coal-fired plants more effectively that systems in use today and at a fraction of current costs. The program is designed to address environmental objections to the continued burning of coal to generate electricity. Coal currently generates just over half of America's electrical power. The six proposals, selected by the Energy Department's National Energy Technology Laboratory, will receive nearly $8 million in federal funds. The proposers will contribute nearly $2.3 million in cost sharing funding. U.S. Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham says the Bush administration's newly announced National Energy Policy calls for this type of technological ingenuity to meet many of the nation's energy and environmental goals. The Anti-Christ strikes again! But this one did not make the news. So we have the industry trying to extend the lives of the plants that pollute the most by working around the rules. It is unfortunate that one of the only ways we have to impose our values on consciousless corporations is to sue them, but there is often no alternative. But from your same quoted article comes the following: The Clinton EPA suits allege 51 coal-fired power plants made repairs and changes dating as far back as 1975, and as recent as 2000, that did not comply with permitting and the application of technologies as called for in NSR. Industry questions why EPA, as well as state and local environmental officials, inspected their sites throughout the previous decades and never raised the possibility of enforcement action. We have a legal process, said Gaynor. Congress enacts laws. EPA issues regulations. Industry abides by those laws and regulations. What this [Clinton] NSR initiative is all about is EPA not following the normal rulemaking processes to establish an interpretation of the law, and instead it is trying to argue that the interpretation that they're now seeking to enforce has always been in existence, when in fact it hasn't been. The Clinton era EPA changed the rules to a place where they were never meant to be. Bush switched them back. Yes, the old plants stay put, but they can get better. And they should. And they will. People will demand it, again this is not a bad thing. Oh, and about the fifteen percent. I'll make a correction down to 12 percent, but that's my final offer. (It just takes time to track down source documentation (That is unless your name is Dan M.)). Detroit Edison is proposing to replace the entire high-pressure sections of two turbines to allow for the use of a new type of turbine blade and to reconfigure the design in order to improve efficiency and reduce maintenance costs. To install the Dense Pack, Detroit Edison must shut down the units. Detroit Edison expects the installation to take approximately 44 days, and plans to complete the installation during the time normally allotted for turbine outages. Installation of the Dense Pack would involve replacement and reconfiguration of blades in the high-pressure sections of the two units, using rotors and casings to support the new blade configuration. In addition, the Dense Pack would use a newer, substantially improved type of blade than is currently in use at the Monroe facility. As noted above, Detroit Edison states that the high pressure sections of
To: All The List, RE: Domain Name BRIN-L.COM For Sale
I make a motion that any bidding on the Brin-L.com website and any further discussion of the subject be conducted off-list. Second? --Ronn! :) Parliamentary Procedure Maru I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bush Seeks To Roll-Back Clean Air Rules
Matthew and Julie Bos wrote: U.S. Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham says the Bush administration's newly announced National Energy Policy calls for this type of technological ingenuity to meet many of the nation's energy and environmental goals. The Anti-Christ strikes again! But this one did not make the news. Great stuff, but lets spread the credit a little further. http://www.fe.doe.gov/coal_power/existingplants/mercurycontrol_fs.shtml In 1993, the Department of Energy's Office of Fossil Energy gave five of the Nation's top environmental monitoring companies the task of assessing the release of trace impurities such as mercury from U.S. coal power plants. The work represented the most intensive effort to date to provide EPA with the critical data it needed on the release of mercury and other toxic impurities from the Nation's power plants. Further on in the report: In May 2001, the Department selected a second group of technology development projects, each proposing a more novel mercury control system in an earlier phase of development. The projects were: among others, Console Inc. We have a legal process, said Gaynor. Congress enacts laws. EPA issues regulations. Industry abides by those laws and regulations. What this [Clinton] NSR initiative is all about is EPA not following the normal rulemaking processes to establish an interpretation of the law, and instead it is trying to argue that the interpretation that they're now seeking to enforce has always been in existence, when in fact it hasn't been. The Clinton era EPA changed the rules to a place where they were never meant to be. Bush switched them back. Yes, the old plants stay put, but they can get better. And they should. And they will. People will demand it, again this is not a bad thing. It's more like the industry was playing games with the rules, Clinton called them on it after they had gotten away with it for quite a while. (see the part of the article I posted). Oh, and about the fifteen percent. I'll make a correction down to 12 percent, but that's my final offer. (It just takes time to track down source documentation (That is unless your name is Dan M.)). Detroit Edison is proposing to replace the entire high-pressure sections of two turbines to allow for the use of a new type of turbine blade and to reconfigure the design in order to improve efficiency and reduce maintenance costs. To install the Dense Pack, Detroit Edison must shut down the units. Detroit Edison expects the installation to take approximately 44 days, and plans to complete the installation during the time normally allotted for turbine outages. Installation of the Dense Pack would involve replacement and reconfiguration of blades in the high-pressure sections of the two units, using rotors and casings to support the new blade configuration. In addition, the Dense Pack would use a newer, substantially improved type of blade than is currently in use at the Monroe facility. As noted above, Detroit Edison states that the high pressure sections of the turbines at Units 1 and 4 are operating at 7% below their original efficiency ratings due to accumulated deterioration in the high-pressure section of the turbines. The Dense Pack project would increase efficiency of the high-pressure sections of the turbines over current levels by 12%, restoring the 7% lost efficiency at the high pressure section and improving the efficiency of the high-pressure section by 5% over the original design. This increased efficiency in the high-pressure sections would increase the overall efficiency of each of the turbines by 4.5%. In addition, the new Dense Pack configuration could reduce efficiency deterioration by 70%. Therefore, Detroit Edison expects the inspections and needed repair or replacements to occur once every 10 years, instead of once every 4 years. But the bottom line is that efficiency over the initial state of the plant (built in 1973 I believe) is 5%. And how is efficiency related to emissions? I ask not to make a point but because I don't know and I'm about done in for the night so I'm not gonna do another search. 8^) Just remember who is going to be paying your social security! :) Well, in 30+ years of paying in to the system with at least 17 to go I would hope to get something out of it. And by the by, if it helps keep the system solvent, I'm all for raising the eligibility age. I'm not paying for your Viagra, I should hope not! Doug Who can only hope he never needs the stuff... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
