Re: VP not part of Executive Branch?
On Jul 18, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > At 07:40 PM Wednesday 7/18/2007, William T Goodall wrote: > >> On 18 Jul 2007, at 14:17, Dan Minette wrote: >> >>> What I find troubling is that countering hyperbola is considered >>> support of >> >> Hyperbole. A hyperbola is a curve formed by the intersection of a >> cone and a plane. >> >> Now sit in the corner Maru > > A hyperbola has corners? News to me . . . No, but you can approximate a parabola in a corner with straight lines. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: VP not part of Executive Branch?
At 07:40 PM Wednesday 7/18/2007, William T Goodall wrote: >On 18 Jul 2007, at 14:17, Dan Minette wrote: > > > > > What I find troubling is that countering hyperbola is considered > > support of > >Hyperbole. A hyperbola is a curve formed by the intersection of a >cone and a plane. > >Now sit in the corner Maru A hyperbola has corners? News to me . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: VP not part of Executive Branch?
On 18 Jul 2007, at 14:17, Dan Minette wrote: > > What I find troubling is that countering hyperbola is considered > support of Hyperbole. A hyperbola is a curve formed by the intersection of a cone and a plane. Now sit in the corner Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ What's the difference between OS X and Vista? Microsoft employees are excited about OS X... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Weekly Chat Reminder
On 18 Jul 2007, at 22:00, jon louis mann wrote: > i tried again but this is as far as i got (probably because i have a > mac). The server runs on a Mac. Maybe it's the Java interface that is causing you problems. > > Welcome to the brin-l chat Mush! > Running on a new faster server! You will have to create your > name/password again. > Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] about admin issues. > -- > --- > Use create to create a character. > Use connect to connect to your existing character. > Use 'ch ' to connect hidden, and cd to connect DARK > (admin) > Use QUIT to logout. > Use the WHO command to find out who is online currently. > -- > --- > > * > ALL USERS MUST CREATE THEIR NAME/PASSWORD AGAIN TO LOG IN > * > > Use create to create a character. > > *** > This means YOU! > *** > > Welcome! If you got that then it's working. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system, and possibly program, of all time." - Bill Gates, 1987 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: U.S. health care
On 18 Jul 2007 at 13:02, Dan Minette wrote: > That's just one example of the complexity of the problem, there are a score. > There is no flip solution to the problems with the US health care system. The problem that allways strikes me is the American healthcare system is designed almost entirely to deal with health problems, rather than working with people to ensure they have a healthy lifestyle and don't get as many problems in the first place. Which the NHS here is trying, hard, to transition towards - they're even looking at things like personalised fitness advice... Andrew C Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Weekly Chat Reminder
i tried again but this is as far as i got (probably because i have a mac). Welcome to the brin-l chat Mush! Running on a new faster server! You will have to create your name/password again. Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] about admin issues. - Use create to create a character. Use connect to connect to your existing character. Use 'ch ' to connect hidden, and cd to connect DARK (admin) Use QUIT to logout. Use the WHO command to find out who is online currently. - * ALL USERS MUST CREATE THEIR NAME/PASSWORD AGAIN TO LOG IN * Use create to create a character. *** This means YOU! *** Welcome! Knowledge is Power Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: VP not part of Executive Branch?
At the moment, we in this world lack a way for governments to decide whom to imprison for attacks against us and whom to release. We need a new category, that of enemy suspect, who does not wear a uniform, but does fight. Hitherto, Westerners and their governments have placed people who do them harm into one of three categories: 1. civilians, who are individuals to be tried in court; 2. soldiers, who are members of an enemy army who wear uniforms; and, 3. enemy combatants who do not wear uniforms, such as spies and saboteurs. These people are specifically excluded from the Geneva conventions. The last grouping is a catchall for those not in the first two groups. For European countries over the past few centuries, enemy combatants who do not wear uniforms have been politically insignificant. But the category of enemy combatants who do not wear uniforms is no longer insignificant. We need to invent the criteria for including people in a another group, and procedures for handling them. The procedures must presume some are innocent and some are not. Let us classify these people as `enemy suspects'. As with captured enemy soldiers, the government would make it legal to imprison those who fall into the new classification. But at the same time, the new Resolution should specify how to determine when to release a prisoner. The new classification has four categories: 1. civilians, who are individuals to be tried in court; 2. soldiers, who are members of an enemy army who wear uniforms; 3. enemy suspects, who do not wear uniforms; and, 4. enemy combatants, who do not wear uniforms, such as spies and saboteurs. In the older, three part classification, civilians defined as criminals are released from prison at or before the end of their sentence. Captured soldiers who wear uniforms are released from their prisoner of war camps when a prisoner exchange is negotiated or a peace treaty signed. But people in the current catchall group do not fit either category and may be imprisoned indefinitely. This should not be. (The classification for spies and saboteurs should continue. If the people in the new category of `enemy suspects' are removed from the old group, few will be left. Because so few will be involved, a sufficiently senior authority in government, such as a U. S. President, can set aside normal legal procedures and either pardon those who are convicted of acting illegally or else release them before any trial takes place. During the Cold War, much U.S./Soviet spying was handled this way.) The dividing lines among various groups comes from the power of a government to classify actions. The kind of classification that occurs depends on how much knowledge can be obtained. For an ordinary criminal action, a court is the social mechanism used to decide whether a defendant should be imprisoned. A court is, essentially, an institution for gaining knowledge and making judgements. Ordinary people, guards, are given the legal authority to coerce those who are supposed to be in prison - and to kill them under certain circumstances. However, in the case of a war, it is often not possible for a court to decide into which category a defendant belongs, since the person involved may not be local and may not be individually identified. In this instance, another governmental mechanism is used, a declaration of war, or some equivalent. As a result of this action, all people who possess a certain fairly readily defined characteristic, such as citizenship in a particular nation, are defined as the `enemy'. This is a crude classification mechanism, but it is the one used. In a civil war, as in the United States between 1861 and 1865, or in a traditional war, such as World War II, a government will declare a state of rebellion or war. These actions will give it the legal authority to categorize people and to define the circumstances under which certain people may legally be restrained or killed. Ordinary people, now called `soldiers', are given the legal authority to coerce those who are categorized as the `enemy' - indeed, to kill them under certain circumstances. Note that when individuals can be identified, a court is becoming the preferred social mechanism. We see, for example, the trials in the Hague of those who have been arrested and accused of war crimes in the former Yugoslavia. However, in many circumstances, it either is not possible to identify individuals or it is not possible to bring those identified to trial without a war. The idea behind the `laws of war' is to minimize harm to people crudely categorized as `the enemy', but who are not doing much, or any, damage. For example, surrendered enemy should not be killed; `collateral damage' should be minimized; and only military targets attacked. The laws or `guidelines' for war are based, at least in part, on what is considered reasonably possible. If I remember rightly, during World War II the average bomb
RE: U.S. health care
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Charlie Bell > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:53 PM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: Re: U.S. health care > 'm not sure you have an adequate picture of the US system and how it > > works for the average person who works for a big company. > > I have an adequate picture of the US system being ranked well below > several European ones... Which is certainly enough for Schadenfreude, but not for solving the problem. Let me give you an example from one of the clearest numbers for which the US performs relatively poorly: infant mortality. The US's rate, about 7/5000 live births is far above the EU rate of 5.6/1000. This is a horrid statistic. We find, though, that the white, non-Hispanic rate is close to the EU: 5.8/1000. The black rate, on the other hand, is very high: 13.8. There is an obvious conclusion to be reached: this is a function of the disparity of income between whites and blacks causing differences in medical care. However, looking at different numbers, we see that it's not this simple. The Hispanic rate (5.7/1000) is below that of white, non-Hispanics at 5.7. While Hispanic households average more income than black households (I'd guess it's because of the greater likelihood of a Hispanic household containing multiple adults) its far closer to the black number than the white, non-Hispanic. Further, one sees that even black women who completed college have a significantly worse rate than white women who haven't completed grade school. 10.6/1000 vs. 6.3/1000. These data indicate that something besides income is affecting the situation. One good candidate, bemoaned by black ministers and physicians, is the general distrust of physicians by the black community. They are far less likely to use medical services than Hispanics or non-Hispanic whites, even when it is available. That problem will not be solved by switching the system of insurance. That's just one example of the complexity of the problem, there are a score. There is no flip solution to the problems with the US health care system. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Weekly Chat Reminder
As Steve said, "The Brin-L weekly chat has been a list tradition for over six years. Way back on 27 May, 1998, Marco Maisenhelder first set up a chatroom for the list, and on the next day, he established a weekly chat time. We've been through several servers, chat technologies, and even casts of regulars over the years, but the chat goes on... and we want more recruits! Whether you're an active poster or a lurker, whether you've been a member of the list from the beginning or just joined today, we would really like for you to join us. We have less politics, more Uplift talk, and more light-hearted discussion. We're non-fattening and 100% environmentally friendly... -(_() Though sometimes marshmallows do get thrown. The Weekly Brin-L chat is scheduled for Wednesday 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time. There's usually somebody there to talk to for at least eight hours after the start time. If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to do is send your web browser to: http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/ ..And you can connect directly from William's new web interface! My instruction page tells you how to log on, and how to talk when you get in: http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html It also gives a list of commands to use when you're in there. In addition, it tells you how to connect through a MUD client, which is more complicated to set up initially, but easier and more reliable than the web interface once you do get it set up." -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "This message was sent automatically using launchd. But even if WTG is away on holiday, at least it shows the server is still up." ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: VP not part of Executive Branch?
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Charlie Bell > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 3:09 AM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: Re: VP not part of Executive Branch? > > > On 17/07/2007, at 6:01 AM, Dan Minette wrote: > > >> > >> When has an American Citizen been held as an enemy combatant and > >> completely isolated? > > > > I'm not sure that exact thing has happened, but I know that in WWII > > Americans citizens, captured in the US have been declared enemy > > combatants > > and executed. The Supreme Court decided at the time that > > constitutional > > protections did not apply to them. > > ...which was before the Geneva Conventions... People embarking on sabotage while pretending to be civilians are not afforded protection under the Geneva Convention (see section 4.1.2 of GCIII). Now, it might be possible for the eight caught, tried and convicted to claim that they deserved protection as members of the German militaryeven though they dressed as civilians. As far as I can tell, if this argument were accepted, the death sentence would be delayed by, at most, 6 monthsbecause perfidy is a war crime...which can be punished by death. The purpose of the Geneva conventions was to protect non-combat, and uniformed combatants who surrendered or otherwise hours de combatnot fighters who pretend to be civilians in order to commit acts of war. > > This is also the main precedent for > > Bush's actions. > > ...who has unilaterally withdrawn from the Geneva Conventions, then? No, and he didn't half to. In this particular case, there is absolutely no protection under the Geneva Convention, just as there is no protection for Americans falsely accused of crime in a foreign country. Padilla's protection needs to come from the US Constitution. And, unfortunately, the bad Supreme Court decision during WWII that I referenced has provided precedent for Bush's actions. I'm not condoning Bush's actions. I think they are wrong. Let me try to put it this way. The decision by the Stone court during WWII put a hole in the Constitutional protection afforded American citizens. Since the Supreme Court decided that an American could be stripped by the President of his Bill of Rights protection if he is an enemy combatant, then that's the law...until the Supreme Court changes the law. It's worth noting that the petition of habeas corpus for Padilla did not question the right of a president to take this action. A similar hole existed when the Supreme Court decided during WWII that the internment of Japanese Americans was constitutional. That hole had been subsequently fixed when a case came before the Court and they reversed this decision. This decision needs to be reversed. There has not been a case to try, so the Court didn't reverse it. It is reasonable to fault this Supreme Court for not pulling the case out of the appeals process (a very unusual move but technically possible) to decide on it. But, I don't see how one can fault the lowest levels of the court system, who are suppose to follow the law, even when they think its wrong. As one goes up the appeals process, higher courts are more willing to strike new legal ground...as they should be. The enemy combatant status was removed during the process because an appeals court did find fault with Bush's actions and Bush thought there was a significant risk that the Supreme Court would uphold this decision and overturn the Stone court decision. So, the case is now in the process of being tried in a civilian court. What I find troubling is that countering hyperbola is considered support of indefensible actions. It's quite possible to have legal actions be wrong. There are bad Supreme Court decisions that provide precedent for actions. Lots of bad things are not prohibited by the Geneva Convention...including the massive genocide practiced by Mao (tens of millions killed). Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
