Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
>Ronn! wrote: >>How, not to mention why, do they plan to turn the entire USA into a >>third-world country? Reggie wrote- >Knowing nothing of the situation in Alabama other than what I've heard here, >let me take a stab at that. > >Employers in third-world countries pay very low salaries. Employers in >third-world >countries don't provide a lot in the way of sick days, vacation days, or >overtime. >Manufacturing is third-world countries is much less expensive than in >first-world >countries because of these reasons. So the advantage for an employer of >turning Alabama and/or the rest of the USA into a third-world country would >be that manufacturing cost would go down, and if cost goes down and price >stays the same, then profits go up. I doubt the budget situation in AL is even remotely related to a conspiracy, more than a set of events. I am far from an authority on Alabama, but I learned a bit when I moved to North Carolina. Many industries moved here because it was "friendlier" to employers than the "north". Alot of the textile people I met readily admitted that NC, SC and AL were poorer areas where workers were used to hard working conditions. In some cases people still work "piece work", unions were minimal etc. I don't see the same circumstances coming together in other states. If AL is losing jobs to other countries the way NC is, and is/has overspending/spent, I could see it would be a formula that may take longer for the people to recover from than other states- there just isn't as much money. Dee ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
Ronn! wrote: How, not to mention why, do they plan to turn the entire USA into a third-world country? Knowing nothing of the situation in Alabama other than what I've heard here, let me take a stab at that. Employers in third-world countries pay very low salaries. Employers in third-world countries don't provide a lot in the way of sick days, vacation days, or overtime. Manufacturing is third-world countries is much less expensive than in first-world countries because of these reasons. So the advantage for an employer of turning Alabama and/or the rest of the USA into a third-world country would be that manufacturing cost would go down, and if cost goes down and price stays the same, then profits go up. Of course, this ignores the fact that workers who get payed less will have less money to spend purchasing products, and will likely be less motivated and less productive. But if I were a conspiracy theorist, lowering cost would be the motivation I would attribute to "big industry" for wanting to turn this country into a third-world nation. After all, we can always export to Europe, right? This email should not be construed to mean that I have an opinion one way or the other on the Alabama situation, or that I believe (or necessarily don't believe) that someone or some group is actually trying to turn Alabama and/or the rest of the USA into a third-world country. :-) Reggie Bautista _ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
> Yes. Pretty much the way it has been done for at least 102 years (since > the current state constitution was written by said interests to keep > themselves in power) and probably for the past 184 years (since > statehood). People are sick and tired of it, and sick and tired of > throwing good money after bad. Unlike what has been suggested in earlier > posts here, the 2-1 vote against the tax increase was not something > orchestrated by out-of-state interests who want Alabama to become a > third-world country (any more than the people brought in from out of state > to support it had sufficient influence to get it passed), but a response > from the people. > Fine. Then what is the people's solution to the absolute disaster that is befalling Alabama? Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
At 09:31 AM 10/21/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: --- Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 06:37 PM 10/20/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html > > > >Well, I hope you're happy as prisoners are let out early, people die, > >teachers are fired, Guv Rip & co. are the ones making the decision about which programs to cut. Instead of making wise choices for the state, they are making the choices which are in their own political and power sustaining, best intrests. Yes. Pretty much the way it has been done for at least 102 years (since the current state constitution was written by said interests to keep themselves in power) and probably for the past 184 years (since statehood). People are sick and tired of it, and sick and tired of throwing good money after bad. Unlike what has been suggested in earlier posts here, the 2-1 vote against the tax increase was not something orchestrated by out-of-state interests who want Alabama to become a third-world country (any more than the people brought in from out of state to support it had sufficient influence to get it passed), but a response from the people. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
At 11:58 AM 10/21/03 -0500, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America > > > --- Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 06:37 PM 10/20/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html > > > > > >Well, I hope you're happy as prisoners are let out early, people die, > > >teachers are fired, > > Guv Rip & co. are the ones making the decision about which programs to cut. > Instead of making wise choices for the state, they are making the choices > which are in their own political and power sustaining, best intrests. The budget for Alabama is at: http://www.budget.state.al.us/stgovfin.html It would be interesting for those who claim that there is no problem in cutting the budget by more than a third to show where expenses can be cut, only hurting the political power of the governor. If you are asking me to provide an alternate budget without raising taxes, I don't have one. People who I know who were against the tax increase knew full well that the cuts would be made in such a way as to take revenge on as many people who voted "No" as possible. The problem in Alabama is that no one can get elected without the support of both the AEA (Alabama Education Association) and its president Paul Hubbard and ALFA (ALabama Farmers Association, I think -- no one ever uses the full name), which owns a large portion of the land, even though the interests of the two often conflict. In this case, the idea of the "reform" part of the tax package was to raise property taxes on large landowners and supposedly give more money to schools, but there was nothing in the package which guaranteed that it would go anywhere specifically, and, as I said in an earlier post, the tax increases would hit the low-income people, too. We need tax reform, but first we need political power reform. This package didn't provide it. It would have done nothing to change the status quo. Why should they be given more money to do the same thing they have been doing for years? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
- Original Message - From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America > > > --- Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 06:37 PM 10/20/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html > > > > > >Well, I hope you're happy as prisoners are let out early, people die, > > >teachers are fired, > > Guv Rip & co. are the ones making the decision about which programs to cut. > Instead of making wise choices for the state, they are making the choices > which are in their own political and power sustaining, best intrests. The budget for Alabama is at: http://www.budget.state.al.us/stgovfin.html It would be interesting for those who claim that there is no problem in cutting the budget by more than a third to show where expenses can be cut, only hurting the political power of the governor. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
--- Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 06:37 PM 10/20/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html > > > >Well, I hope you're happy as prisoners are let out early, people die, > >teachers are fired, Guv Rip & co. are the ones making the decision about which programs to cut. Instead of making wise choices for the state, they are making the choices which are in their own political and power sustaining, best intrests. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Oh, BTW: Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
At 06:37 PM 10/20/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html Well, I hope you're happy as prisoners are let out early, people die, teachers are fired, -- Ronn! :) Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions contained herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the official position of the University of Montevallo. It Ain't A Private University Maru Then There Was The "Professional Development Meeting" Everyone Was Expected To Attend In August According To The Memo In Everyone's Faculty Mailbox Which Was A "Get Out The Vote" Rally Maru² ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
At 06:37 PM 10/20/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html ^^^ "Everybody is entitled to his own ridiculous opinion." -- W. C. Widenhouse, Capt., USAF, ca. 1977 Well, I hope you're happy as prisoners are let out early, people die, teachers are fired, and Alabama becomes a third world country. If a conservative had said something like that about the results of something liberals had supported, he'd be accused of hysterical fear-mongering and scare tactics. And I hope the same sickness does not spread to the rest of the country. Because, regardless of why you yourself may have voted against the proposed tax increase, a lot of the agitation against it was fueled by people such as Norquist, and they are gleefully chortling about their "success" in Alabama as merely the first wave of their plan to turn the entire rest of the USA into a third world country, too. How, not to mention why, do they plan to turn the entire USA into a third-world country? -- Ronn! :) "We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." --Winston Churchill ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html Well, I hope you're happy as prisoners are let out early, people die, teachers are fired, and Alabama becomes a third world country. And I hope the same sickness does not spread to the rest of the country. Because, regardless of why you yourself may have voted against the proposed tax increase, a lot of the agitation against it was fueled by people such as Norquist, and they are gleefully chortling about their "success" in Alabama as merely the first wave of their plan to turn the entire rest of the USA into a third world country, too. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
At 02:22 PM 10/20/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the Center for American Progress: " ECONOMY - ALABAMA LIVES WITH ITS VOTE: Just six weeks ago, Alabama http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A51143-2003Sep9?language=printer";>shot down an attempt by Gov. Bob Riley to reform taxes in an attempt to stem the hemorrhaging state budget. Although the state currently has "the nation's least equitable tax system" and the new system would have eased the tax burden on the poor, shifting it to "undertaxed business interests," a hard push from the conservative right - including the Christian Coalition - scared low-income Alabamians into voting against their best interests. And now there is no money. According to the http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html";>NYT, as a result, "the carnage is piling up." State agencies have been cut by 18%, while other recipients of state funds lost three-quarters of their budgets. Currently, Alabamians are losing access to AIDS medication, after-school tutoring, special-needs camps and slashing jobs such as probation officers and health investigators. And that's just the start. "Next year agencies are bracing for a 56% hit . If the state cannot find more revenue and Governor Riley is seearching it may be nearly impossible for basic servvices, including courts, prisons and police, to operate." " Somewhere, a disgusting monster named Grover Norquist is happily chortling to himself over the "great thing" he thinks he's accomplished. Meanwhile, ordinary Americans not sophisticated enough to understand how their misery contributes to Norquist's grand plan, are suffering as their communities crash into ruin. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A51143-2003Sep9?language=printer";> I didn't know who Grover Norquist was until I did a search on the name after reading the above, so I can say that he had nothing to do with the reason I voted against the tax hike on 9 September and probably he had little or nothing to do with why many others voted no. (If he had been quoted with any frequency down here, I certainly would have heard of him before now.) Without going into great detail about the specific ways money has been wasted, the main reason most people who did so voted against the Riley plan was because it would do nothing to change the process by which the tax money going to Montgomery would be spent. Most of us feel, with justification, that the main reason that things are in a mess is that certain parties down there have been wasting money, and giving them more money to waste would be like giving free crack cocaine to a junkie. And regardless of what the _New York Times_ says, many of the proposed new taxes would hit everyone, including those with low incomes. Frex, although the Riley plan said that people living in houses worth less than $52,000 would be exempt from paying property taxes, it also would change the way that property was appraised, and would make it subject to being reappraised every year, so with the normal rate of inflation it would not be long before a person living in a house that is currently valued at less than $52,000 would find his/her home valued above that. His proposal also would make the labor charges on services subject to sales tax at the same rate as the parts, thus increasing the cost for everyone every time they got their oil changed or their car repaired or their washing machine fixed, etc. Those are just a couple of examples of how it would have directly impacted even the low-income people by raising their taxes, not to mention how higher taxes on businesses, landlords, etc., would be passed right along to the property renter or the person who purchased anything from the business, regardless of their income. -- Ronn in Birmingham, AL :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
How some conservatives are deliberately destroying America
From the Center for American Progress: " ECONOMY - ALABAMA LIVES WITH ITS VOTE: Just six weeks ago, Alabama http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A51143-2003Sep9?language=printer";>shot down an attempt by Gov. Bob Riley to reform taxes in an attempt to stem the hemorrhaging state budget. Although the state currently has "the nation's least equitable tax system" and the new system would have eased the tax burden on the poor, shifting it to "undertaxed business interests," a hard push from the conservative right - including the Christian Coalition - scared low-income Alabamians into voting against their best interests. And now there is no money. According to the http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/opinion/20MON3.html";>NYT, as a result, "the carnage is piling up." State agencies have been cut by 18%, while other recipients of state funds lost three-quarters of their budgets. Currently, Alabamians are losing access to AIDS medication, after-school tutoring, special-needs camps and slashing jobs such as probation officers and health investigators. And that's just the start. "Next year agencies are bracing for a 56% hit . If the state cannot find more revenue — and Governor Riley is searching — it may be nearly impossible for basic services, including courts, prisons and police, to operate." " Somewhere, a disgusting monster named Grover Norquist is happily chortling to himself over the "great thing" he thinks he's accomplished. Meanwhile, ordinary Americans not sophisticated enough to understand how their misery contributes to Norquist's grand plan, are suffering as their communities crash into ruin. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A51143-2003Sep9?language=printer";>Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
