bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
Maxim Cournoyer writes: > Mark H Weaver writes: > >> Maxim Cournoyer writes: >> >>> Mark H Weaver writes: >>> Maxim Cournoyer writes: > Why not let good old sed have a run at it? Seems like a simple find > and replace operation, and 'block looks nicer than _IOFBF to my > eyes. If we did that, then Guix would stop working with guile-2.0. Given that guile-2.2 is not yet available from many popular distros, I think it would be unwise to drop guile-2.0 at this time. >>> >>> Isn't Guile included in the Guix binary releases? >> >> Yes, but that's not the only supported method to install Guix. While I >> acknowledge that most new users are happy to use our binary tarball, >> many users prefer to compile our source tarball, or to try out a Guix >> package provided by their existing distribution. >> >> Security conscious users tend to be nervous about entrusting their >> computer's security to a source of precompiled binaries that is new to >> them. >> >> While it's true that they will need our bootstrap binaries, and that >> they are highly likely to end up using our binary substitutes before >> long, it nonetheless seems to me that it is best not to ask newcomers to >> trust a large binary from us as their first step into our community, >> without providing other easy methods that are more comfortable to them. >> Users are comfortable installing a package from a distro that they've >> already put their trust in. >> >> So, I would prefer to continue supporting guile-2.0 until guile-2.2 is >> more widely deployed in popular distros, or at least until it becomes a >> hassle to continue supporting guile-2.0. >> >> I'll also mention that there's apparently an unresolved bug somewhere >> (guile2.2-ssh?) that prevents us from using guix-based-on-guile-2.2 on >> hydra.gnu.org: >> >> https://bugs.gnu.org/26976 >> >>Mark > > OK, I understand better your point of view now, thanks for taking the > time to explain it in details! I'd be somewhat concerned though about > Guix sooner than later not running smoothly on Guile 2.0 due to the vast > majority of users using and testing with Guile 2.2 rather than Guile > 2.0. There was some breaking changes in 2.2, and it seems like wanting to > support both might lead to code complexity or restraint that would > otherwise allow simplifications and clean-ups of the code base. > > Also, nothing is stopping security minded individuals from building > Guile 2.2 from sources, so the argument about security seems a bit moot > to me. It's true that security conscious users would still have the option of building Guix, Guile, GnuTLS, and maybe some other prerequisites from source code, but that's a lot of work to try Guix for the first time. The other option currently available to them is to install a 'guix' package from their distro, but I guess that most of those distro packages would have to be dropped (or not upgraded anytime soon) if we stop supporting guile-2.0. Having said all of this, I acknowledge that it's not a strong argument, and if it starts becoming difficult to support guile-2.0, then we should drop that support. I don't feel strongly about it. > Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, Likewise, thanks for the discussion! Mark
bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
Hello Mark, Mark H Weaver writes: > Maxim Cournoyer writes: > >> Mark H Weaver writes: >> >>> Maxim Cournoyer writes: >>> Why not let good old sed have a run at it? Seems like a simple find and replace operation, and 'block looks nicer than _IOFBF to my eyes. >>> >>> If we did that, then Guix would stop working with guile-2.0. Given that >>> guile-2.2 is not yet available from many popular distros, I think it >>> would be unwise to drop guile-2.0 at this time. >> >> Isn't Guile included in the Guix binary releases? > > Yes, but that's not the only supported method to install Guix. While I > acknowledge that most new users are happy to use our binary tarball, > many users prefer to compile our source tarball, or to try out a Guix > package provided by their existing distribution. > > Security conscious users tend to be nervous about entrusting their > computer's security to a source of precompiled binaries that is new to > them. > > While it's true that they will need our bootstrap binaries, and that > they are highly likely to end up using our binary substitutes before > long, it nonetheless seems to me that it is best not to ask newcomers to > trust a large binary from us as their first step into our community, > without providing other easy methods that are more comfortable to them. > Users are comfortable installing a package from a distro that they've > already put their trust in. > > So, I would prefer to continue supporting guile-2.0 until guile-2.2 is > more widely deployed in popular distros, or at least until it becomes a > hassle to continue supporting guile-2.0. > > I'll also mention that there's apparently an unresolved bug somewhere > (guile2.2-ssh?) that prevents us from using guix-based-on-guile-2.2 on > hydra.gnu.org: > > https://bugs.gnu.org/26976 > >Mark OK, I understand better your point of view now, thanks for taking the time to explain it in details! I'd be somewhat concerned though about Guix sooner than later not running smoothly on Guile 2.0 due to the vast majority of users using and testing with Guile 2.2 rather than Guile 2.0. There was some breaking changes in 2.2, and it seems like wanting to support both might lead to code complexity or restraint that would otherwise allow simplifications and clean-ups of the code base. Also, nothing is stopping security minded individuals from building Guile 2.2 from sources, so the argument about security seems a bit moot to me. But I will leave it to the Guix maintainers to decide what works best for minimizing their load :) Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, Maxim
bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
Maxim Cournoyer writes: > Mark H Weaver writes: > >> Maxim Cournoyer writes: >> >>> Why not let good old sed have a run at it? Seems like a simple find >>> and replace operation, and 'block looks nicer than _IOFBF to my >>> eyes. >> >> If we did that, then Guix would stop working with guile-2.0. Given that >> guile-2.2 is not yet available from many popular distros, I think it >> would be unwise to drop guile-2.0 at this time. > > Isn't Guile included in the Guix binary releases? Yes, but that's not the only supported method to install Guix. While I acknowledge that most new users are happy to use our binary tarball, many users prefer to compile our source tarball, or to try out a Guix package provided by their existing distribution. Security conscious users tend to be nervous about entrusting their computer's security to a source of precompiled binaries that is new to them. While it's true that they will need our bootstrap binaries, and that they are highly likely to end up using our binary substitutes before long, it nonetheless seems to me that it is best not to ask newcomers to trust a large binary from us as their first step into our community, without providing other easy methods that are more comfortable to them. Users are comfortable installing a package from a distro that they've already put their trust in. So, I would prefer to continue supporting guile-2.0 until guile-2.2 is more widely deployed in popular distros, or at least until it becomes a hassle to continue supporting guile-2.0. I'll also mention that there's apparently an unresolved bug somewhere (guile2.2-ssh?) that prevents us from using guix-based-on-guile-2.2 on hydra.gnu.org: https://bugs.gnu.org/26976 Mark
bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
Hi Mark, Mark H Weaver writes: > Maxim Cournoyer writes: > >> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Ludovic Courtès wrote: >> >> Ricardo Wurmus skribis: >> >> > I get a couple of deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2, for example >> > >> > Import (ice-9 threads) to have access to `current-processor-count'. >> > `_IOFBF' is deprecated. Use the symbol 'block instead. >> >> We can fix the first one with #:use-module (ice-9 threads). >> >> The second one is just a pain: in 2.2 one is supposed to write >> >> (setvbuf port 'block) >> >> instead of >> >> (setvbuf port _IOFBF) >> >> So we could do: >> >> (cond-expand (guile-2.2 (define _IOFBF 'block)) >> (else #t)) >> >> in some central place (that doesn’t exist), but really, that’s annoying. >> >> So I’m tempted to do nothing. >> >> Note that normally users do not see these deprecation warnings at all. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Why not let good old sed have a run at it? Seems like a simple find and >> replace operation, and 'block looks nicer than _IOFBF to my eyes. > > If we did that, then Guix would stop working with guile-2.0. Given that > guile-2.2 is not yet available from many popular distros, I think it > would be unwise to drop guile-2.0 at this time. Isn't Guile included in the Guix binary releases? I would have thought so. Otherwise, I just tried "guix pack guile@2.2" and the resulting archive is 40 MiB. I'm not saying it's worth it, but it's an option. Maxim
bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
Maxim Cournoyer writes: > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > > Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > > > I get a couple of deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2, for example > > > > Import (ice-9 threads) to have access to `current-processor-count'. > > `_IOFBF' is deprecated. Use the symbol 'block instead. > > We can fix the first one with #:use-module (ice-9 threads). > > The second one is just a pain: in 2.2 one is supposed to write > > (setvbuf port 'block) > > instead of > > (setvbuf port _IOFBF) > > So we could do: > > (cond-expand (guile-2.2 (define _IOFBF 'block)) > (else #t)) > > in some central place (that doesn’t exist), but really, that’s annoying. > > So I’m tempted to do nothing. > > Note that normally users do not see these deprecation warnings at all. > > Thoughts? > > Why not let good old sed have a run at it? Seems like a simple find and > replace operation, and 'block looks nicer than _IOFBF to my eyes. If we did that, then Guix would stop working with guile-2.0. Given that guile-2.2 is not yet available from many popular distros, I think it would be unwise to drop guile-2.0 at this time. Mark
bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > Hi, > > Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > > > I get a couple of deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2, for example > > > > Import (ice-9 threads) to have access to `current-processor-count'. > > `_IOFBF' is deprecated. Use the symbol 'block instead. > > We can fix the first one with #:use-module (ice-9 threads). > > The second one is just a pain: in 2.2 one is supposed to write > > (setvbuf port 'block) > > instead of > > (setvbuf port _IOFBF) > > So we could do: > > (cond-expand (guile-2.2 (define _IOFBF 'block)) >(else #t)) > in some central place (that doesn’t exist), but really, that’s annoying. > > So I’m tempted to do nothing. > > Note that normally users do not see these deprecation warnings at all. > > Thoughts? > Why not let good old sed have a run at it? Seems like a simple find and replace operation, and 'block looks nicer than _IOFBF to my eyes. Maxim
bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
Hi, Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > I get a couple of deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2, for example > > Import (ice-9 threads) to have access to `current-processor-count'. > `_IOFBF' is deprecated. Use the symbol 'block instead. We can fix the first one with #:use-module (ice-9 threads). The second one is just a pain: in 2.2 one is supposed to write (setvbuf port 'block) instead of (setvbuf port _IOFBF) So we could do: (cond-expand (guile-2.2 (define _IOFBF 'block)) (else #t)) in some central place (that doesn’t exist), but really, that’s annoying. So I’m tempted to do nothing. Note that normally users do not see these deprecation warnings at all. Thoughts? Ludo’.
bug#27152: deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2
I get a couple of deprecation warnings with Guile 2.2.2, for example Import (ice-9 threads) to have access to `current-processor-count'. `_IOFBF' is deprecated. Use the symbol 'block instead. I only see them after “export GUILE_WARN_DEPRECATED=detailed”. Without that variable I get a block of text that informs me that deprecated features have been used. This happens especially when running “make” or when not all files have been compiled. -- Ricardo GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC https://elephly.net
