Re: aptitude not working
On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 11:03:44AM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Miguel Figueiredo wrote: > >I think not. I've "always" seen one the annoying small thing in aptitude > >in Hurd, pressing q to quit and it does not quits. If i repeat the q and > >then Ctrl+C, it quits and I see the on the console. > >I've seen this on Virtualbox, but now i have it on qemu with the same > >behavior. > > the behaviour is similar to mine then. I never use the curse based interface of aptitude. -- Richard Braun
Re: aptitude not working
Hi, Richard Braun wrote: I increased the allocated RAM size of the VM to 1024MB and now I read this: Try 2g or even 3g. I can't allocate more.. 2G is about the limit for my host, but I did allocate 2048 MB of ram, did a "fresh boot", accessed directly root and started aptitude and issued "g". Probably the shortest path that should ensure a clean system and kernel. It still hangs. I would now really exclude it is a memory issue. As Miguel pointed out, he has a similar issue with qemu and actually I am able to reproduce the problem with a much more simple path: launch aptitude, hit quit select yes and it hangs there. Riccardo
Re: aptitude not working
Hi, Miguel Figueiredo wrote: I think not. I've "always" seen one the annoying small thing in aptitude in Hurd, pressing q to quit and it does not quits. If i repeat the q and then Ctrl+C, it quits and I see the on the console. I've seen this on Virtualbox, but now i have it on qemu with the same behavior. the behaviour is similar to mine then. Actually I can confirm: I just start aptitude, hit "q" I get asked about Y or NO, I select Y, but aptitude doesn't quit... if I write random stuff and then do ctr-c, I see the random stuff in the console. So we face the same issue and it is good to know that it is not a VirtualBox vs qemu issue and we also have a quick way to reproduce it: it is thus not related to the more complex actions of download and install. Riccardo
Re: aptitude not working
On 07-11-2016 13:44, Riccardo Mottola wrote: Hi, anybody of you using aptitude? It has a strange malfunction to me: I select the action on packages (e.g. opdate or install) then confirm the next review step then, if necessary, downloads will happen, then it hangs. It never starts unpacking/configuring things. I can hit ctr-lc and notice that if I typed something (like Q for quit or G for go) that has been written on the command prompt! It is not a new bug, but a nuiseance for sure. Does it happen only for me? I think not. I've "always" seen one the annoying small thing in aptitude in Hurd, pressing q to quit and it does not quits. If i repeat the q and then Ctrl+C, it quits and I see the on the console. I've seen this on Virtualbox, but now i have it on qemu with the same behavior. Riccardo BR, Miguel
Re: aptitude not working
You're much better off using qemu. You can read about how to set up an instant development environment here: https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/contributing.html#index4h2 Do not pass the "|-no-kvm-irqchip" |||option. Also the default *img file is only has space for about 2 GBs I think. You may have to expand the resulting img file, then expand the filesytem, if you eventually need more space. Also my command does not begin with "kvm". I actually use "qemu-system-i386", because kvm is not a command on my computer. You can resize a *.img file with https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/QEMU#Resizing_an_image You'll have to google how to resize an ext2 partition (what the hurd uses by default). Also, I ssh into my locally running Hurd box. In my opinion, Emacs running on my GNU/Linux box connecting to the Hurd via ssh, works better than using Emacs on the hurd. At least, that was the case, the last time I tried it. Note that I am not a hurd developer. Just an enthusiast. On 11/14/2016 11:46 AM, Richard Braun wrote: > On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 04:52:25PM +0100, Richard Braun wrote: >>> (btw: can you read out these values later on, with a command similar to >>> dmesg? pausing VirtualBOX and typing out things is boring) > Ah, by the way, practically none of us run the Hurd on VirtualBox, and > it's known to behave badly in some cases, so you're on your own about > that. > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 04:52:25PM +0100, Richard Braun wrote: > > (btw: can you read out these values later on, with a command similar to > > dmesg? pausing VirtualBOX and typing out things is boring) Ah, by the way, practically none of us run the Hurd on VirtualBox, and it's known to behave badly in some cases, so you're on your own about that. -- Richard Braun
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:55:46AM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > how do I know actually which console I am running? could it be meaningful? > I have the issue also when running aptitude from a remote console (e.g. > through telnet) Well, telnet and ssh are remote so they're subject to netdde hangs. The hurd and machs console use the VGA interface (or something similar). You can identify the hurd console by switching to virtual terminals with ALT-FX [1-6]. You can disable it by editing /etc/default/hurd-console. When the hurd console is disabled, the system remains on the default mach console, with a single terminal only. -- Richard Braun
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:53:44AM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > I increased the allocated RAM size of the VM to 1024MB and now I read this: Try 2g or even 3g. > (btw: can you read out these values later on, with a command similar to > dmesg? pausing VirtualBOX and typing out things is boring) See /var/log/dmesg. > I think something dies: it might have to do with the console, I find it > strange that if I type into aptitude while it appears hanging, after killing > it in ctrl-c I actually see what I type in console. Do you want a > screenshot? I'm not sure what's happening there and it's likely a screenshot won't help. > I did an upgrade with apt-get which works fine and which included an > aptitude update. > I retried aptitude afterwards: having updated everything with apt-get, I > just tried to remove package, thus, no actual download needed! Yet it > hangs. Always keep an eye on swap usage, and maybe /proc/slabinfo. One problem with increasing swap usage is that it requires more kernel objects to track memory, and it can in some cases (and easily with older kernels) exhaust kernel memory. > If I am doing something wrong, I guess it is not in the usage of aptitude > itself, but more in something in my HURD setup? I don't think you're doing something "wrong", I think we (the developers) know the system enough to avoid most of the caveats. But yes, it's probably caused by a Hurd defect. -- Richard Braun
Re: aptitude not working
Hi Richard, Richard Braun wrote: From what you describe, it doesn't seem to be a hang caused by this. With your amount of memory, you shouldn't even have a HIGHMEM segment, which makes bugs even less likely. So I don't know what happened to your system, or if you're doing something wrong or not. I've just installed a Hurd system on a VM myself, and I had paging problems when upgrading from the snapshot to unstable, but once I assigned 2g of RAM, I could upgrade without too much trouble with aptitude. I use it on all my machines, Linux and Hurd, and never have such issues. how do I know actually which console I am running? could it be meaningful? I have the issue also when running aptitude from a remote console (e.g. through telnet) Riccardo
Re: aptitude not working
Hi, Richard Braun wrote: Yes, but specifically : vm_page: page table size: 786414 entries (43008k) vm_page: DMA: pages: 4080 (15M), free: 0 (0M) vm_page: DMA: min:500 low:600 high:1000 vm_page: DIRECTMAP: pages: 233472 (912M), free: 217899 (851M) vm_page: DIRECTMAP: min:11673 low:14008 high:23347 the "high" threshold. If you add all the high thresholds together, you'll know how much memory must be free before the pageout daemon stops. I increased the allocated RAM size of the VM to 1024MB and now I read this: page table size: 262112 entries (14335)( DMA: pages 4080 (15M), free: 0 (0M) DMA: min:500 low:600 high:1000 DIRECTMAP: pages: 233472 (912M), free: 227669 (889M) DIRECTMAP: pages min:1228 low:1473 high:2456 HIGHMEM: pages: 24560 (95M), free: 0 (0M) HIGHMEM: min: 1228 low:1473 high:2456 (btw: can you read out these values later on, with a command similar to dmesg? pausing VirtualBOX and typing out things is boring) From what you describe, it doesn't seem to be a hang caused by this. With your amount of memory, you shouldn't even have a HIGHMEM segment, which makes bugs even less likely. So I don't know what happened to your system, or if you're doing something wrong or not. I've just installed a Hurd system on a VM myself, and I had paging problems when upgrading from the snapshot to unstable, but once I assigned 2g of RAM, I could upgrade without too much trouble with aptitude. I use it on all my machines, Linux and Hurd, and never have such issues. Now with 1024MB I do have a highmem segment. The issue still happens. Is it actually safer to go back to 768? Aptitude doesn't seem to be memory-bound. I think something dies: it might have to do with the console, I find it strange that if I type into aptitude while it appears hanging, after killing it in ctrl-c I actually see what I type in console. Do you want a screenshot? I did an upgrade with apt-get which works fine and which included an aptitude update. I retried aptitude afterwards: having updated everything with apt-get, I just tried to remove package, thus, no actual download needed! Yet it hangs. If I am doing something wrong, I guess it is not in the usage of aptitude itself, but more in something in my HURD setup? Riccardo
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 05:34:23PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > do you mean what vm_page reports at the earliest stages of boot? > It says 751M in pages, 733M free Yes, but specifically : vm_page: page table size: 786414 entries (43008k) vm_page: DMA: pages: 4080 (15M), free: 0 (0M) vm_page: DMA: min:500 low:600 high:1000 vm_page: DIRECTMAP: pages: 233472 (912M), free: 217899 (851M) vm_page: DIRECTMAP: min:11673 low:14008 high:23347 the "high" threshold. If you add all the high thresholds together, you'll know how much memory must be free before the pageout daemon stops. > After loading aptitude, it tells me there are 535M free. Just before hang, > I see 526M free and it remains there with "total progress" not even starting > and nothing to do > (since the system was freshly upgraded with apt-get, I just removed a > package, thus there was nothing to download) > > Should I check memory differently? at a glance, I don't think we are going > out of mem here. >From what you describe, it doesn't seem to be a hang caused by this. With your amount of memory, you shouldn't even have a HIGHMEM segment, which makes bugs even less likely. So I don't know what happened to your system, or if you're doing something wrong or not. I've just installed a Hurd system on a VM myself, and I had paging problems when upgrading from the snapshot to unstable, but once I assigned 2g of RAM, I could upgrade without too much trouble with aptitude. I use it on all my machines, Linux and Hurd, and never have such issues. -- Richard Braun
Re: aptitude not working
Hi Richard, Richard Braun wrote: On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 04:59:09PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: it still had plenty of free RAM, the system wasn't doing anything else. Let's assume that's the case, although it may still happen that, between two top samples, the system could allocate a huge amount of memory and hang. And it's not that unlikely. Check how much of free RAM you have compared to the high thresholds of free memory reported at boot. do you mean what vm_page reports at the earliest stages of boot? It says 751M in pages, 733M free perhaps instead of top, should I check vmstat? after boot and lokin, vm_stat reports 748M in size, 650M free After loading aptitude, it tells me there are 535M free. Just before hang, I see 526M free and it remains there with "total progress" not even starting and nothing to do (since the system was freshly upgraded with apt-get, I just removed a package, thus there was nothing to download) Should I check memory differently? at a glance, I don't think we are going out of mem here. The local console (hurd-console, not the mach console) was very recently fixed [1] with regard to paging. either it is not landed yet into debian, or I did have it already: I just upgraded with apt-get and saw no updates to console. Riccardo
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 04:59:09PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > it still had plenty of free RAM, the system wasn't doing anything else. Let's assume that's the case, although it may still happen that, between two top samples, the system could allocate a huge amount of memory and hang. And it's not that unlikely. Check how much of free RAM you have compared to the high thresholds of free memory reported at boot. > I was using telnet to the system. It happens also when I use the local > console though. The local console (hurd-console, not the mach console) was very recently fixed [1] with regard to paging. -- Richard Braun [1] https://git.sceen.net/hurd/hurd.git/commit/?id=81fb68fee81769d81c373e3af5a508d706b7e3d6
Re: aptitude not working
Hi, Richard Braun wrote: On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 03:51:26PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: I did try checking top in a second terminal. On opening, aptitude has 66mb RES 132MB virtual after "g" it grows just a little more, I hit gh once again and It ramps up to 72Mb RES, 128 VIRT... and staus there, 9% of memory. The virtual machine is configured with 768MB of RAM. Don't look at aptitude alone, look at the system globally. it still had plenty of free RAM, the system wasn't doing anything else. No network activity: there are no packages scheduled to download, the hang happens *after* the download. In case of a crash, I restart and there is nothing to download and it will hang again. Are you logged in locally or through SSH ? I was using telnet to the system. It happens also when I use the local console though. Riccardo
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 03:51:26PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > I did try checking top in a second terminal. > On opening, aptitude has 66mb RES 132MB virtual > after "g" it grows just a little more, I hit gh once again and It ramps up > to 72Mb RES, 128 VIRT... and staus there, 9% of memory. > The virtual machine is configured with 768MB of RAM. Don't look at aptitude alone, look at the system globally. > No network activity: there are no packages scheduled to download, the hang > happens *after* the download. In case of a crash, I restart and there is > nothing to download and it will hang again. Are you logged in locally or through SSH ? -- Richard Braun
Re: aptitude not working
Hi, Richard Braun wrote: I use aptitude and have no such problem. On the other hand, the Hurd may be hanging. Using aptitude can lead to large memory usage, which can increase swap usage, and fill kernel memory (in older kernels at least). So, what's your version of GNU Mach ? And how much memory do you have on your system ? hurd is pretty current of debian: GNU hurd-vm 0.8 GNU-Mach 1.7+git20161023-486/Hurd-0.8 i686-AT386 GNU I did try checking top in a second terminal. On opening, aptitude has 66mb RES 132MB virtual after "g" it grows just a little more, I hit gh once again and It ramps up to 72Mb RES, 128 VIRT... and staus there, 9% of memory. The virtual machine is configured with 768MB of RAM. No network activity: there are no packages scheduled to download, the hang happens *after* the download. In case of a crash, I restart and there is nothing to download and it will hang again. Riccardo
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 02:49:35PM +0100, Richard Braun wrote: > So, what's your version of GNU Mach ? And how much memory do you have > on your system ? We also know network can just randomly hang because of bugs in the netdde server. -- Richard Braun
Re: aptitude not working
On Mon, Nov 07, 2016 at 02:44:13PM +0100, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > anybody of you using aptitude? > It has a strange malfunction to me: I select the action on packages (e.g. > opdate or install) then confirm the next review step then, if necessary, > downloads will happen, then it hangs. It never starts unpacking/configuring > things. I can hit ctr-lc and notice that if I typed something (like Q for > quit or G for go) that has been written on the command prompt! > It is not a new bug, but a nuiseance for sure. Does it happen only for me? I use aptitude and have no such problem. On the other hand, the Hurd may be hanging. Using aptitude can lead to large memory usage, which can increase swap usage, and fill kernel memory (in older kernels at least). So, what's your version of GNU Mach ? And how much memory do you have on your system ? -- Richard Braun
