Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #2 on issue 1670 by carl.d.s...@gmail.com: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 Personally, I prefer the current behavior. violinOne is no harder than violin1 to read or type, and it keeps the syntax cleaner. LilyPond is confusing enough as it is; I think requiring quotes around variable definitions in order to allow numbers would be a mistake. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #3 on issue 1670 by percival.music.ca: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 I agree with Carl. I'm glad that Keith looked into it and clarified the issue, but given the choices he laid out, I think the status quo is better. If somebody has an alternate solution, then by all means we can discuss this again. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #4 on issue 1670 by tdaniels...@googlemail.com: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 I agree with Carl too. Trevor ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #5 on issue 1670 by k-ohara5...@oco.net: Allow numbers in variable
names: violin1mvt2 = c'
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670
I think requiring quotes around variable definitions in order to allow
numbers would be a mistake.
Just to be clear, only definitions of those variables with numbers need
quotes:
timpani = \relative c, { ...
"motif254" = { ...
"violin1" = \relative c'' { ... \motif254
\score {<< \violin1 \timpani >>}
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Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
lilyp...@googlecode.com writes:
> Comment #5 on issue 1670 by k-ohara5...@oco.net: Allow numbers in
> variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670
>
>> I think requiring quotes around variable definitions in order to
>> allow numbers would be a mistake.
>
> Just to be clear, only definitions of those variables with numbers
> need quotes:
>
> timpani = \relative c, { ...
> "motif254" = { ...
> "violin1" = \relative c'' { ... \motif254
> \score {<< \violin1 \timpani >>}
The language should strive to be simple enough to be understandable to
simple local parsers, or you can forget about teaching it to smart
editors (syntax highlighting, indentation etc).
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #6 on issue 1670 by carl.d.s...@gmail.com: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 I understand. But that gives one more special case: "You don't normally need to put quotes around the variable name in a variable definition. But if you want to include a number, you do need to put quotes." I don't like the special case. And we try (in our examples) to avoid having the user need to understand special cases. So we'd probably need to make a rule for documentation that said "Variables being defined should be surrounded by quotes". And then every variable definition in our manuals would have quotes around it. And it wouldn't be a simple convert-ly rule to write. All for a minor benefit. Our language has a well-defined rule for variables: letters only. It works just fine, as far as I can see. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
> Comment #6 on issue 1670 by carl.d.s...@gmail.com: Allow numbers in
> variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
>
> Our language has a well-defined rule for variables: letters only.
Just to be pedantic:
letters only, and not a note-name in the current input language.
Actually, you can use a note-name, like dis, if you put quotes around it in its
definition: "dis" = {...}. (Accented characters are also accepted, but that's
not documented an probably not a good idea either.)
David Kastrup gnu.org> writes:
> The language should strive to be simple enough to be understandable to
> simple local parsers,
Yep, but LilyPond is not simple.
The vi syntax highlighter does an impressive job:
\violin = \afterGrace a b h = c
correctly has the h highlighted as a variable, presumably by look-ahead to the
'=', without vi knowing if I speak German.
The LilyPond parser interprets \afterGrace to learn what arguments it needs, so
it can parse them. Maybe the parser it could tell the lexer that it is ready
for another top-level expression before reading the 'h', but I could not make
it do so early enough.
In hindsight, the simpler language would require braces around a music
expression. That is, do not allow
\transpose c d e1
but require
\transpose c d { e1 }
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Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
> (Accented characters are also accepted, but that's not documented an > probably not a good idea either.) Why not? Since lilypond accepts UTF-8 only, I don't see any problem, except unveiling potential guile bugs. Werner ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #7 on issue 1670 by percival.music.ca: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 there are some interesting ideas here. I've added them to the GLISS list, and we will discuss them in due course. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Werner LEMBERG gnu.org> writes: > > (Accented characters are also accepted, but that's not documented an > > probably not a good idea either.) > > Why not? Since lilypond accepts UTF-8 only, I don't see any problem, > except unveiling potential guile bugs. > Why not? Only because the capability is un-documented; those mean old programmers might take it away in the next release. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #8 on issue 1670 by j...@sente.ch: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 To state a user opinion (I'm in jazz). It would be very very helpful to have numbers in variables. I've been missing that since I use lilypond Not just for section but also for bar numbers. ThemeFromBarsThirtyTwoToSixtyFour versus theme32-64. Numbers are easier to grasp with the eye than words. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
lilyp...@googlecode.com writes: > Comment #8 on issue 1670 by j...@sente.ch: Allow numbers in variable > names: violin1mvt2 = c' > http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 > > To state a user opinion (I'm in jazz). It would be very very helpful > to have numbers in variables. I've been missing that since I use > lilypond > > Not just for section but also for bar > numbers. ThemeFromBarsThirtyTwoToSixtyFour versus theme32-64. Numbers > are easier to grasp with the eye than words. And so you silently demand dashes in variable names as well... Try themeXXXIItoLXIV. -- David Kastrup ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
>> Not just for section but also for bar numbers. >> ThemeFromBarsThirtyTwoToSixtyFour versus theme32-64. Numbers are >> easier to grasp with the eye than words. > > And so you silently demand dashes in variable names as well... Assuming that we allow Unicode characters in variable names in the future also, then dashes like `β' are OK, but the ASCII hyphen-minus character `-' is not. To take another step forward, by using Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols (which start at Unicode U+1D400), it is currently possible to write themeππβππ but I doubt whether this is a good idea since it is both error prone (due to the possible mix-up with normal digits) and difficult to type. > Try themeXXXIItoLXIV. We definitely need TeX's \csname command:-) Werner ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Werner LEMBERG writes:
>>> Not just for section but also for bar numbers.
>>> ThemeFromBarsThirtyTwoToSixtyFour versus theme32-64. Numbers are
>>> easier to grasp with the eye than words.
>>
>> And so you silently demand dashes in variable names as well...
>
> Assuming that we allow Unicode characters in variable names in the
> future also, then dashes like `β' are OK, but the ASCII hyphen-minus
> character `-' is not. To take another step forward, by using
> Mathematical Alphanumeric Symbols (which start at Unicode U+1D400), it
> is currently possible to write
>
> themeππβππ
>
> but I doubt whether this is a good idea since it is both error prone
> (due to the possible mix-up with normal digits) and difficult to type.
>
>> Try themeXXXIItoLXIV.
>
> We definitely need TeX's \csname command:-)
One could go via
"theme32-64" = { ... }
{ \"theme32-64" ... }
That gives a certain symmetry. However, you are right with your \csname
remark in that the next demand will be for computed identifiers.
--
David Kastrup
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Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #9 on issue 1670 by k-ohara5...@oco.net: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 Accidentally, this leaked into in the draft 2.15.16 user manual: The previous example could also be written as follows: "custom-tuning" = \stringTuning It came from automatic conversion of what was formerly Scheme code. The quotes allow the otherwise forbidden hyphen '-' into the variable name. I make the following modest proposal: Scheme variables used in LilyPond should conform to the rules for LilyPond variables. customHtuning is no harder than custom-tuning to read or type, and it keeps the syntax cleaner. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #10 on issue 1670 by d...@gnu.org: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 Fine modest proposal. But customHtuning is harder to read/type. I'd have chosen a different name, but to be fair: this variable is only used in the context of specifying a _Scheme_ expression not otherwise useful to Lilypond, namely as #custom-tuning. There _is_ a notable difference between #xxx and \xxx right now: if xxx is a music function, #xxx names it, but \xxx _calls_ it. And one needs the difference even when I continue on my quest of autoexporting Scheme expressions in every conceivable context: zap=#somemusicfunction zap=\somemusicfunction need to stay different in meaning. As another example of identifiers not generally useful as Scheme variables, take a look at scm/define-music-properties.scm. I don't particularly like the various different identifier syntaxes, though. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: Issue 1670 in lilypond: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c'
Comment #11 on issue 1670 by d...@gnu.org: Allow numbers in variable names: violin1mvt2 = c' http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1670 And now for a somewhat hilarious side-effect of Issue 2024: $identifier-in-Scheme-syntax is pretty much equivalent to what you would want here for calling your variables with strange characters in their name. I would not recommend it, but it should work. ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
