Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
2010/12/28 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk Janek Warchoł wrote Tuesday, December 28, 2010 3:28 PM I wouldn't describe this behaviour as packing notes as tightly as possible - the first note gets enormous amount of space. Don't you think that packed-spacing is bugged itself? No. The space after the first note is to accommodate the lyrics word attached to that note. Just as in modern music the note spacing adjusts as necessary to accommodate the lyrics. When there is a melisma like this in modern music the lyric word does not go necessarily only under first note, see attached normalbehaviour.png. But nevertheless i suppose we should leave it alone as for now. yours Pondly, Janek attachment: normalbehaviour.pngattachment: withgregorian.png___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
2010/12/27 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk
If you want to use normal spacing simply revert this setting:
\revert Score.SpacingSpanner #'packed-spacing
Thanks for this!
I know next to nothing about ancient notation, but whoever wrote
gregorian.ly clearly intended this behaviour as the file contains
the override
\override SpacingSpanner #'packed-spacing = ##t
on line 258, which requests notes to be packed as tightly as possible.
I wouldn't describe this behaviour as packing notes as tightly as
possible - the first note gets enormous amount of space. Don't you
think that packed-spacing is bugged itself?
This is presumably to enable the usual packed spacing of Gregorian
ligatures when the other facilities in gregorian.ly are used, so it is not
a bug.
Regardless of whether this is intended or not, i suggest changing the
way it works, because it causes bad files to be easily produced: just
a few days ago Michael Dykes posted a question about the attached
piece (in Not enough space between certain words thread). Obviously
he didn't know about the need to revert packed-spacing, which resulted
in a badly typeset piece.
cheers,
Janek
2010/12/27 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com:
Hi,
Search for gregorian in tracker didn't show any results like this,
so i report:
including gregorian.ly breaks horizontal spacing when there are lyrics.
Example:
\include gregorian.ly
\new Voice = foobar { f'( a' g' f') }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto foobar \lyricmode { lalah }
attachment: with gregorian.png
06jan_secondant_lznam_2.ly
Description: Binary data
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Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
Janek Warchoł wrote Tuesday, December 28, 2010 3:28 PM 2010/12/27 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk I know next to nothing about ancient notation, but whoever wrote gregorian.ly clearly intended this behaviour as the file contains the override \override SpacingSpanner #'packed-spacing = ##t on line 258, which requests notes to be packed as tightly as possible. I wouldn't describe this behaviour as packing notes as tightly as possible - the first note gets enormous amount of space. Don't you think that packed-spacing is bugged itself? No. The space after the first note is to accommodate the lyrics word attached to that note. Just as in modern music the note spacing adjusts as necessary to accommodate the lyrics. This is presumably to enable the usual packed spacing of Gregorian ligatures when the other facilities in gregorian.ly are used, so it is not a bug. Regardless of whether this is intended or not, i suggest changing the way it works, because it causes bad files to be easily produced: just a few days ago Michael Dykes posted a question about the attached piece (in Not enough space between certain words thread). Obviously he didn't know about the need to revert packed-spacing, which resulted in a badly typeset piece. gregorian.ly is supposed to be used as described in Typesetting Gregorian chant, Section 2.9.4 in the Notation Reference. You'll see there that there are special staff and voice contexts that should be used. AFAIK it is not intended to be used without these contexts, and may well exhibit strange behaviour if it is. But I would not call such behaviour bugs. That said, I'm sure there /are/ many bugs in the ancient notation section and the documentation is clearly incomplete. But none of the currently active developers is expert enough in ancient notation to touch this section, so no changes are likely be made in the foreseeable future. Unless, of course, you or Michael would like to suggest patches. Trevor ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
RE: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
Hello, From: bug-lilypond-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org [bug-lilypond-bounces+james.lowe=datacore@gnu.org] on behalf of Trevor Daniels [t.dani...@treda.co.uk] Sent: 28 December 2010 16:37 To: Janek Warchoł Cc: lilypond-de...@gnu.org; Lilypond Bugreports Subject: Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas 2010/12/27 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk That said, I'm sure there /are/ many bugs in the ancient notation section and the documentation is clearly incomplete. But none of the currently active developers is expert enough in ancient notation to touch this section, so no changes are likely be made in the foreseeable future. Unless, of course, you or Michael would like to suggest patches. - and that includes any Documentation improvements or suggestions. :) I have made a very small start on the Ancient Notation section in the Notation Reference manual. I know very little about Ancient Music myself, but am more than happy to submit documentation patches/corrections/additions for others who know more than I do. I am trying to get this section of the NR up to the normal standard and any help would be greatly appreciated. http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1287 James ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
2010/12/27 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com:
Hi,
Search for gregorian in tracker didn't show any results like this,
so i report:
including gregorian.ly breaks horizontal spacing when there are lyrics.
Example:
\include gregorian.ly
\new Voice = foobar { f'( a' g' f') }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto foobar \lyricmode { lalah }
It breaks also with \addlyrics:
\include gregorian.ly
\new Voice = foobar { f'( a' g' f') }
\addlyrics { lalah }
Hi!
I compiled with 2.13.43 and I did not see an issue here.
The result is exactly the same if we comment \include gregorian.ly ,
so this tends to mean if there is an issue it is not due to this.
I suppose you consider an issue the fact that the syllable is
left-aligned instead of horizontally centered below the first note.
This is due to the slur and is normal behaviour AFAIK.
The slur is creating a melismata and LilyPond tries to horizontally
center the syllable below the whole slurred passage. But it needs to
stay below the first note also (because that's where the syllable begins),
so it is left-aligned.
Seems normal to me, so not an issue here IMHO.
Cheers,
Xavier
--
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Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
2010/12/27 Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com:
2010/12/27 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com:
including gregorian.ly breaks horizontal spacing when there are lyrics.
Example:
\include gregorian.ly
\new Voice = foobar { f'( a' g' f') }
\new Lyrics \lyricsto foobar \lyricmode { lalah }
Hi!
I compiled with 2.13.43 and I did not see an issue here.
The result is exactly the same if we comment \include gregorian.ly ,
so this tends to mean if there is an issue it is not due to this.
I suppose you consider an issue the fact that the syllable is
left-aligned instead of horizontally centered below the first note.
This is due to the slur and is normal behaviour AFAIK.
The slur is creating a melismata and LilyPond tries to horizontally
center the syllable below the whole slurred passage. But it needs to
stay below the first note also (because that's where the syllable begins),
so it is left-aligned.
Seems normal to me, so not an issue here IMHO.
This surely sounds like normal bahaviour! Looks like i'm getting
different output than you do. I attach my output.
(in addition to strange alignment, including gregorian.ly causes the
indent to disappear on my computer)...
I'm using LilyPond 2.13.43 (i'll install .44 right now) on Windows 7
Professional PC.
cheers,
Janek
attachment: with gregorian.pngattachment: without gregorian.png___
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Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
2010/12/27 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com: I'm using LilyPond 2.13.43 (i'll install .44 right now) Installed. It breaks exactly the same with 2.13.44 :( Janek ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
2010/12/27 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com:
This surely sounds like normal bahaviour! Looks like i'm getting
different output than you do. I attach my output.
(in addition to strange alignment, including gregorian.ly causes the
indent to disappear on my computer)...
I'm using LilyPond 2.13.43 (i'll install .44 right now) on Windows 7
Professional PC.
Right!
I was focusing on lyrics alignment, not indent.
So apparently \include gregorian.ly removes the indent.
I'm not used to ancient notation but I suppose it is normal behaviour
for that kind of notation.
I have looked at ly/gregorian.ly and it _does_ contain
\layout {
indent = 0.0
(line 223)
so it is intentional.
If you want default (i.e. modern notation) behaviour simply add
\layout {
indent = 15\mm
}
*after* \include gregorian.ly
So not a bug apparently.
Cheers,
Xavier
--
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Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
2010/12/27 Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com:
2010/12/27 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com:
This surely sounds like normal bahaviour! Looks like i'm getting
different output than you do. I attach my output.
(in addition to strange alignment, including gregorian.ly causes the
indent to disappear on my computer)...
I'm using LilyPond 2.13.43 (i'll install .44 right now) on Windows 7
Professional PC.
Right!
I was focusing on lyrics alignment, not indent.
So apparently \include gregorian.ly removes the indent.
I'm not used to ancient notation but I suppose it is normal behaviour
for that kind of notation.
I have looked at ly/gregorian.ly and it _does_ contain
\layout {
indent = 0.0
(line 223)
so it is intentional.
Ok, so there is no problem with indent, but the notes *are* still
aligned wrongly! Look at the with gregorian attachment - the gap
after first note is too big (i marked it in red).
cheers,
Janek
attachment: with gregorian.pngattachment: without gregorian.png___
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Re: including gregorian.ly breaks lyrics alignment in melismas
Janek Warchoł wrote Monday, December 27, 2010 4:45 PM Ok, so there is no problem with indent, but the notes *are* still aligned wrongly! Look at the with gregorian attachment - the gap after first note is too big (i marked it in red). I know next to nothing about ancient notation, but whoever wrote gregorian.ly clearly intended this behaviour as the file contains the override \override SpacingSpanner #'packed-spacing = ##t on line 258, which requests notes to be packed as tightly as possible. This is presumably to enable the usual packed spacing of Gregorian ligatures when the other facilities in gregorian.ly are used, so it is not a bug. If you want to use normal spacing simply revert this setting: \revert Score.SpacingSpanner #'packed-spacing Trevor ___ bug-lilypond mailing list bug-lilypond@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-lilypond
