Re: [Callers] Cub Callers

[Laur]

We tried to meet monthly, use it as a place for our "mentors" or the schooled 
callers to experiment with new things and lend the newer callers their 
practiced feedback, and for others at different levels to learn and practice 
and get and give feedback.  It was great for two years.  It inspired them, it 
helped us, we all helped one another.  But then time and life happened and the 
group broke down.  We all miss it, the community and sharing of it, whatever 
our level. 

But yes, I see what you mean Martha, and agree.

I'm trying to remember our process.  We had a lot of dancer feedback; 
interesting, as it appears they claimed some of us as "their own" and were 
pretty free with dispensing tidbits of disfavor or encouragement.  And we were 
pretty open, and honest, with one another.  

But there was a lot of internal things going on in this discovery process.

Lp 



--- On Thu, 12/17/09, Martha Edwards  wrote:

> From: Martha Edwards 
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Cub Callers
> To: "Caller's discussion list" 
> Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 6:57 PM
> What happens when the cubs don't
> think they're cubs any more, but are? I
> think that was possibly the problem that Lindsay brought
> up.
> 
> In other words, what is the proper way for the dance
> leadership to get
> callers to continue to practice and learn? I'm guessing the
> very best
> callers do that anyway, and the newish callers do it
> because they have to,
> but what can we do to get people who have become
> comfortable with their
> skill level but are not actually doing the kind of job we
> want, to get
> excited again about "continuous improvement"?
> 
> M
> E
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Laur 
> wrote:
> 
> > Keeping cubs together sharing an evening with each
> taking turns managing
> > the programing for an evening - less of an open mic
> and more of an
> > multi-caller event -  helps on a number of
> levels.
> >
> >
> > Laurie
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Lindsay Morris 
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Lindsay Morris 
> > > Subject: Re: [Callers] Cub Callers
> > > To: "Caller's discussion list" 
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 2:13 PM
> > > Could be that we just put the cubs
> > > into the rotation too early.
> > > Sad to trash the democratic freewheeling nature
> of some
> > > groups, but maybe we
> > > need a vetting committee - or some less formal
> bar to
> > > people getting up on
> > > stage.
> > >
> > > Lindsay Morris
> > > Principal
> > > TSMworks
> > > Tel. 1-859-539-9900
> > > lind...@tsmworks.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Martha Edwards
> <
> > meedwa...@westendweb.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > How bad would it have been to have the board
> basically
> > > put its foot down
> > > > and, after one of the not-very-great
> evenings, suggest
> > > that the next time
> > > > that person is asked to call, they prepare
> just half a
> > > night, or a third of
> > > > a night?
> > > >
> > > > I'm curious - how did you "bring along" the
> new
> > > callers? Was there a
> > > > teacher/student relationship, or more of a
> > > peer-to-peer setup? I ask
> > > > because
> > > > we have a bunch of cubs - I'm one of them -
> and it's
> > > always been
> > > > peer-to-peer, with input from experienced
> callers only
> > > from time to time.
> > > > To
> > > > a certain extent, we critique each other.
> When one of
> > > us manages to screw
> > > > up, we have a friendly enough atmosphere at
> our
> > > Calling Parties that we can
> > > > admit it, figure out what to do better, and
> move on.
> > > We've been at it for
> > > > almost two years, and are only slowly moving
> into the
> > > rotation, mostly at
> > > > shared caller nights until someone is
> "ready", and
> > > even then, not as often
> > > > as the regular callers.
> > > >
> > > > So far, it seems to be working. I hope that
> we don't
> > > develop a situation
> > > > such as the one you described! We should
> remain on our
> > > toes, just in case.
> > > >
> > > > Interestingly, we previously had a couple of
> regular
> > > callers whose dances
> > > > broke down often enough that it was
> becoming
> > > noticeable, but after the cub
> > > > callers started calling, it happened less
> often! I'd
> > > like to think that the
> > > > improvement was less from the competition
> than from
> > > the fact that more
> > > > people were paying attention to the callers'
> art, and
> > > so what had become
> > > > somewhat routine took on renewed energy.
> > > >
> > > > M
> > > > E
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Lindsay
> Morris  > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Our dance group brought along a group
> of
> > > half-a-dozen "cub callers" a few
> > > > > years ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was a bad thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > After they got into the 

Re: [Callers] Callers' workshop

[Steve Gester]

Always interested in more ideas on teaching, both dances and workshops. 
Also, ideas on programming and the needs of musicians.


- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Hart" 
To: ; "Caller's discussion list" 


Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Callers' workshop


Another topic that might be helpful is one that I know is near and dear to 
your heart - how to integrate dances that are not just duple improper 
contra sets. We have a lot of dances of slightly different shapes that 
people do enjoy if they are properly integrated and called, including 
triples (both types), proper dances, chestnuts, waltz contras, double 
progressions,  5 couple dances, couple dances, such as waltz, hambo, 
polka, schottish, etc., circles, and others. Many beginning callers avoid 
these dances for various reasons. More familiarity with these dance can 
help to make an evening of dance more varied and more interesting when 
they are included.


Rich Hart.

David Millstone remarked on 12/15/2009 6:48 PM:

Dear fellow dance callers,

I have an opportunity coming up next spring to lead a day-long workshop 
for
dance callers. It'll be a small group, perhaps 10-12 people, with a range 
of
experience. Some will have had only 2-4 years of active calling while 
others may
have had 20 years or more. These will be folks who are comfortable with 
contras
and with traditional squares. They will know each other already. They're 
open to

a wide variety of topics and teaching methods.
I've been invited to address just about any topics that are near and dear 
to me,

so I'm relishing this prospect.

At the same time, I'd like not to spend an entire day on a soapbox. With 
that in

mind, I'm soliciting opinions from this group-- rather than, say, the
trad.dance.callers listserv-- because this Shared Weight group includes 
some

callers on the less experienced end of the spectrum.

So, what are topics that _you_ would like to see in a workshop? Assuming 
that
one already has the nuts and bolts of programming an evening, teaching a 
dance,

and delivering the calls in good fashion, what skills would be useful to
address?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

David Millstone
Lebanon, NH
___
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Re: [Callers] Cub Callers

[Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing]

Martha wrote:

> What happens when the cubs don't think they're cubs any more, but are? I
> think that was possibly the problem that Lindsay brought up.

> In other words, what is the proper way for the dance leadership to get
> callers to continue to practice and learn? I'm guessing the very best
> callers do that anyway, and the newish callers do it because they have to,
> but what can we do to get people who have become comfortable with their
> skill level but are not actually doing the kind of job we want, to get
> excited again about "continuous improvement"?

(I wrote and cut out a bunch of stuff about how the only feedback system in
general use seems to be whether or not you get repeat bookings, and that's
broken in many ways, because you might not get those booking for reasons other
than quality, or if you have a structure where once you're admitted to a
rotation you're guaranted bookings.  But the general point is that unequivocal
feedback would be helpful.  Of course, it can be  hard to get unsolicited 
feedback to be listened to, and in some cases it depends on whether there's a
respected community elder who can tell someone "we love you, and we want you to
get better, so I think you should be working on " whatever it is.)

But in general I think the drive for improvement in what's basically a hobby is
internal. People who are driven to do the work and get better will do that (at
times in their life when they feel like that, anyway) and others probably
won't, although life circumstances, etc, can light fires under people and make
them want to get off their plateaus.  What can help, externally, is to provide
opportunities and frameworks for people who have the internal drive -
workshops, comment cards, honest feedback.

-- Alan




-- 
===
 Alan Winston --- wins...@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===

Re: [Callers] Cub Callers

[Laur]

Keeping cubs together sharing an evening with each taking turns managing the 
programing for an evening - less of an open mic and more of an multi-caller 
event -  helps on a number of levels.


Laurie


--- On Wed, 12/16/09, Lindsay Morris  wrote:

> From: Lindsay Morris 
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Cub Callers
> To: "Caller's discussion list" 
> Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 2:13 PM
> Could be that we just put the cubs
> into the rotation too early.
> Sad to trash the democratic freewheeling nature of some
> groups, but maybe we
> need a vetting committee - or some less formal bar to
> people getting up on
> stage.
> 
> Lindsay Morris
> Principal
> TSMworks
> Tel. 1-859-539-9900
> lind...@tsmworks.com
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Martha Edwards 
> wrote:
> 
> > How bad would it have been to have the board basically
> put its foot down
> > and, after one of the not-very-great evenings, suggest
> that the next time
> > that person is asked to call, they prepare just half a
> night, or a third of
> > a night?
> >
> > I'm curious - how did you "bring along" the new
> callers? Was there a
> > teacher/student relationship, or more of a
> peer-to-peer setup? I ask
> > because
> > we have a bunch of cubs - I'm one of them - and it's
> always been
> > peer-to-peer, with input from experienced callers only
> from time to time.
> > To
> > a certain extent, we critique each other. When one of
> us manages to screw
> > up, we have a friendly enough atmosphere at our
> Calling Parties that we can
> > admit it, figure out what to do better, and move on.
> We've been at it for
> > almost two years, and are only slowly moving into the
> rotation, mostly at
> > shared caller nights until someone is "ready", and
> even then, not as often
> > as the regular callers.
> >
> > So far, it seems to be working. I hope that we don't
> develop a situation
> > such as the one you described! We should remain on our
> toes, just in case.
> >
> > Interestingly, we previously had a couple of regular
> callers whose dances
> > broke down often enough that it was becoming
> noticeable, but after the cub
> > callers started calling, it happened less often! I'd
> like to think that the
> > improvement was less from the competition than from
> the fact that more
> > people were paying attention to the callers' art, and
> so what had become
> > somewhat routine took on renewed energy.
> >
> > M
> > E
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Lindsay Morris  > >wrote:
> >
> > > Our dance group brought along a group of
> half-a-dozen "cub callers" a few
> > > years ago.
> > >
> > > It was a bad thing.
> > >
> > > After they got into the calling rotation at our
> weekly dance, they never
> > > wanted to get off, of course.
> > > Our really good callers got to call less often;
> the new callers only got
> > to
> > > call a dance once every 3 months, so they never
> got any better.  The
> > dance
> > > was plagued with inexperienced and not-very-great
> calling for years.
> > >
> > > Sorry to offer problems without solutions, but
> this well-intentioned
> > > debacle
> > > has stayed on my mind. Seem like this is the
> place to share the
> > > "cub-callers" problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lindsay Morris
> > > Principal
> > > TSMworks
> > > Tel. 1-859-539-9900
> > > lind...@tsmworks.com
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Delia Clark
>  > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > David,
> > > > Let's do one of these for VT/NH! 
> Aren't you just the guy to organize
> > > it!!
> > > > ;-)  OK, I would help -- how about you
> put me in charge of organizing
> > > > supplies for the schmoozing part!
> > > > Delia
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 15, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Katy Heine
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  Hi, David--
> > > >>
> > > >> Ever since the "Ted's Triplets" marathon
> eight years ago, we in
> > Central
> > > >> New
> > > >> York have had an annual callers'
> gathering on different themes. These
> > > have
> > > >> been more an opportunity to share
> repertoire than for older, more
> > > >> experienced callers to mentor younger,
> less experienced callers--so
> > > really
> > > >> not a parallel to what you're talking
> about, but maybe of interest
> > > anyway.
> > > >>
> > > >> The topics over the years have included
> dances in unusual formations;
> > > >> "living room dances" (i.e., dances for
> small numbers of people); the
> > > Gene
> > > >> Hubert legacy; English for contra dance
> callers; and calling for
> > > community
> > > >> dances, weddings, and one-night-stands.
> The next one (March 6) will be
> > > >> "Zesty Contras," which will be dances
> from Larry Jennings' first book.
> > > >> (Many
> > > >> of us have the book on our shelves but
> have not actually mined it for
> > > the
> > > >> gems that assuredly lie within.)
> > > >>
> > > >> These annual workshops are a great
> opportunity for