Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Roger Hayes via Callers]

A more interesting programming task, and more useful, would be to design &
build a system that facilitated crowdsourcing dance definitions.  You'd
want some kind of authentication and reputation tracking system, and
perhaps a lexography of dance moves for cataloguing -- although Peter
Norvig cites the "Unreasonable Effectiveness of Data", and he's been there
and done that for semantic analysis of language.

I wonder if CDSS would consider hosting such a system?

I presume you'd make it open source.  No money to be had, I think.

- Roger Hayes



On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming
> projects, and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database,
> where you can filter by move combination, etc.
>
> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or
> does it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or
> shortchanging dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would
> be included without the author's permission, but it may be that making a
> huge ton of dances freely available and searchable in one place online
> would be a death blow to published books of dances, or have some other
> negative effect I'm not foreseeing right now...)
>
> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
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Re: [Callers] Fwd: Giant dance database?

[Jeff Kaufman via Callers]

More discussion on contra dance copyrightability, which I didn't
include before because I didn't want to send us off into legal land:
http://www.jefftk.com/p/can-you-copyright-a-contra-dance


On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Mark Jones via Callers
 wrote:
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Mark Jones 
> Date: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?
> To: Maia McCormick 
>
>
> This is a GIANT project.
>
> People associated with CDSS have had thoughts of undertaking such a
> database.  Nils Fredland had initiated a start to the idea about four
> or five years ago, but it is not clear if it has a prime mover right
> now.
>
> Copyright:
> In the US, "social dance steps" are not considered copyrightable, but
> the concept has not been tested in court. This idea that "social dance
> steps" are not copyrightable is a part of the legislative history of
> the 1980 US copyright revision, but NOT a part of the actual statute.
> Any dance published in the US before the copyright law change in 1980
> is in the public domain absolutely, as no dance IN THE US was
> copyrightable, unless "an integral part of a (copyrightable) play".
> I predict the law will be settled after some exercise class instructor
> successfully (or fails to) successfully win a suit against someone for
> copying their "social dance steps" outside of class.  It seems to me
> the ony population that desires to restrict the use of social dance
> steps instruction would be exercise instructors, and yoga instructors,
> and the like that have an investment in maintaining the secrecy of
> their choreography, since they have paying population attending for
> their secret "social dance steps".
>
> Copyright laws in all other countries are unique to that country, and
> typically much stricter and more favorable to the composer /
> choreographer, for social dance.
>
> Issues for the database and searching include that one must create a
> canonical form of all of the entered dances, since nearly every contra
> dance move is capable of being described in more than one way, hence a
> disaster for searching and parsing moves in a collective way.
>
> I can speak from experience about creating a cannonical version of a
> dance, as a co-collaborator of Larry Jennings's compilation, "Give and
> Take" [1],  that it takes a lot of effort to make the dances uniform,
> so that they can be properly searched, and that was done for the
> dances collected in his book, some times to the consternation of the
> authors that permitted their dance to be collected and published in
> the book.
>
> The conclusion others have come to for such a project, in terms of
> cannonical searchable versions, is to have the original dance text
> married to a cannonical "uniformized" version that may be searchable
> in comparison to other dances.
>
> [1] http://www.neffa.org/give_and_take.html
>
> ~Mark Jones
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers
>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming projects,
>> and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database, where you can
>> filter by move combination, etc.
>>
>> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or does
>> it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or shortchanging
>> dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would be included
>> without the author's permission, but it may be that making a huge ton of
>> dances freely available and searchable in one place online would be a death
>> blow to published books of dances, or have some other negative effect I'm
>> not foreseeing right now...)
>>
>> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Maia
>>
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
___
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[Callers] Fwd: Giant dance database?

[Mark Jones via Callers]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Mark Jones 
List-Post: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Date: Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?
To: Maia McCormick 


This is a GIANT project.

People associated with CDSS have had thoughts of undertaking such a
database.  Nils Fredland had initiated a start to the idea about four
or five years ago, but it is not clear if it has a prime mover right
now.

Copyright:
In the US, "social dance steps" are not considered copyrightable, but
the concept has not been tested in court. This idea that "social dance
steps" are not copyrightable is a part of the legislative history of
the 1980 US copyright revision, but NOT a part of the actual statute.
Any dance published in the US before the copyright law change in 1980
is in the public domain absolutely, as no dance IN THE US was
copyrightable, unless "an integral part of a (copyrightable) play".
I predict the law will be settled after some exercise class instructor
successfully (or fails to) successfully win a suit against someone for
copying their "social dance steps" outside of class.  It seems to me
the ony population that desires to restrict the use of social dance
steps instruction would be exercise instructors, and yoga instructors,
and the like that have an investment in maintaining the secrecy of
their choreography, since they have paying population attending for
their secret "social dance steps".

Copyright laws in all other countries are unique to that country, and
typically much stricter and more favorable to the composer /
choreographer, for social dance.

Issues for the database and searching include that one must create a
canonical form of all of the entered dances, since nearly every contra
dance move is capable of being described in more than one way, hence a
disaster for searching and parsing moves in a collective way.

I can speak from experience about creating a cannonical version of a
dance, as a co-collaborator of Larry Jennings's compilation, "Give and
Take" [1],  that it takes a lot of effort to make the dances uniform,
so that they can be properly searched, and that was done for the
dances collected in his book, some times to the consternation of the
authors that permitted their dance to be collected and published in
the book.

The conclusion others have come to for such a project, in terms of
cannonical searchable versions, is to have the original dance text
married to a cannonical "uniformized" version that may be searchable
in comparison to other dances.

[1] http://www.neffa.org/give_and_take.html

~Mark Jones



On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming projects,
> and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database, where you can
> filter by move combination, etc.
>
> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or does
> it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or shortchanging
> dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would be included
> without the author's permission, but it may be that making a huge ton of
> dances freely available and searchable in one place online would be a death
> blow to published books of dances, or have some other negative effect I'm
> not foreseeing right now...)
>
> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
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Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[tallygal007 via Callers]

Are you familiar with Will Loving's software?

Www.callerscompanion.com


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message From: Dugan Murphy via 
Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> Date:07/28/2014  1:51 PM  
(GMT-05:00) To: 
callers@lists.sharedweight.net,callers-requ...@lists.sharedweight.net 
Subject: Re: [Callers] Giant dance database? 
Hi Maia,

It sounds like what you're talking about is a more complex version of Michael 
Dyck's Contradance Index: http://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/index/.

So a publicly accessible database already exists, but it is only searchable by 
title or author (not by figure or figure combination) and there is actually no 
dance choreography in it (all search results are references to where the dance 
is published elsewhere, either in print on online).

Dugan Murphy
Skowhegan, Maine


On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 1:30 PM, via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> 
wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Giant dance database? (Maia McCormick via Callers)
   2. Re: Giant dance database? (Jeff Kaufman via Callers)
   3. Re: Giant dance database? (Aaron Redfern via Callers)
   4. Re: Giant dance database? (Chris Page via Callers)
   5. Re: Giant dance database? (Dave C via Callers)
   6. Re: Giant dance database? (Luke Donforth via Callers)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:46:22 -0400
From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <call...@sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Giant dance database?
Message-ID:
<cahuczgpnow-jpz0j0yuxjg-uqxm2+vj--zc8oxsit1qw-na...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi all,

I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming projects,
and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database, where you
can filter by move combination, etc.

My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or
does it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or
shortchanging dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would
be included without the author's permission, but it may be that making a
huge ton of dances freely available and searchable in one place online
would be a death blow to published books of dances, or have some other
negative effect I'm not foreseeing right now...)

Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?

Cheers,
Maia
-- next part --
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:19:53 -0400
From: Jeff Kaufman via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Maia McCormick <maia@gmail.com>
Cc: Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?
Message-ID:

Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Dugan Murphy via Callers]

Hi Maia,

It sounds like what you're talking about is a more complex version of
Michael Dyck's Contradance Index: http://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/index/.

So a publicly accessible database already exists, but it is only searchable
by title or author (not by figure or figure combination) and there is
actually no dance choreography in it (all search results are references to
where the dance is published elsewhere, either in print on online).

Dugan Murphy
Skowhegan, Maine


On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 1:30 PM, via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> wrote:

> Send Callers mailing list submissions to
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> callers-requ...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> callers-ow...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Giant dance database? (Maia McCormick via Callers)
>2. Re: Giant dance database? (Jeff Kaufman via Callers)
>3. Re: Giant dance database? (Aaron Redfern via Callers)
>4. Re: Giant dance database? (Chris Page via Callers)
>5. Re: Giant dance database? (Dave C via Callers)
>6. Re: Giant dance database? (Luke Donforth via Callers)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:46:22 -0400
> From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: "Caller's discussion list" <call...@sharedweight.net>
> Subject: [Callers] Giant dance database?
> Message-ID:
> <
> cahuczgpnow-jpz0j0yuxjg-uqxm2+vj--zc8oxsit1qw-na...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming projects,
> and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database, where you
> can filter by move combination, etc.
>
> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or
> does it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or
> shortchanging dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would
> be included without the author's permission, but it may be that making a
> huge ton of dances freely available and searchable in one place online
> would be a death blow to published books of dances, or have some other
> negative effect I'm not foreseeing right now...)
>
> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20140728/d2715f09/attachment-0001.htm
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:19:53 -0400
> From: Jeff Kaufman via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: Maia McCormick <maia@gmail.com>
> Cc: Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Last I heard, Nils Fredland was the person at CDSS associated with the
project.

There are non-online versions that allow searching in various ways. You
might take a look at Caller's Companion http://callerscompanion.com to see
something already out there.
On Jul 28, 2014 10:46 AM, "Maia McCormick via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming
> projects, and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database,
> where you can filter by move combination, etc.
>
> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or
> does it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or
> shortchanging dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would
> be included without the author's permission, but it may be that making a
> huge ton of dances freely available and searchable in one place online
> would be a death blow to published books of dances, or have some other
> negative effect I'm not foreseeing right now...)
>
> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
___
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Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
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Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Dave C via Callers]

I am curious.  I got Chris' reply email in my inbox today stamped at 1:11 pm, 
but I never received the initial email from Maia that was sent at 7:46 this 
morning.  I have noticed this on other occassions as well.  Is anyone else 
getting reply messages but not the initial message???  Can a mod please address 
this?  Thanks,

Dave Colestock


On Mon, 7/28/14, Chris Page via Callers  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?
 To: "Maia McCormick" 
 Cc: "Caller's discussion list" 
 Date: Monday, July 28, 2014, 1:11 PM

 During the recent caller's survey, I
 think a database of dances was at
 the top of the list of what online resource callers wanted.

 There have been several attempts at creating a dance
 database over the
 past decade-plus. They have all fizzled out, primarily for
 lack of
 volunteers with sufficient drive, free time, and coding
 experience to
 create such a beast.

 (Data entry and getting permissions requires less technical
 skill, and
 can be farmed out amongst a larger committee.)

 -Chris Page
 San Diego

 On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 7:46 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers
 
 wrote:
 > Hi all,
 >
 > I'm currently in programming school casting about for
 programming projects,
 > and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance
 database, where you can
 > filter by move combination, etc.
 >
 > My question: is this something people would be
 interested in having? Or does
 > it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property,
 or shortchanging
 > dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances
 would be included
 > without the author's permission, but it may be that
 making a huge ton of
 > dances freely available and searchable in one place
 online would be a death
 > blow to published books of dances, or have some other
 negative effect I'm
 > not foreseeing right now...)
 >
 > Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
 >
 > Cheers,
 > Maia
 >
 > ___
 > Callers mailing list
 > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
 > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
 >
 ___
 Callers mailing list
 Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
 http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

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Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Chris Page via Callers]

During the recent caller's survey, I think a database of dances was at
the top of the list of what online resource callers wanted.

There have been several attempts at creating a dance database over the
past decade-plus. They have all fizzled out, primarily for lack of
volunteers with sufficient drive, free time, and coding experience to
create such a beast.

(Data entry and getting permissions requires less technical skill, and
can be farmed out amongst a larger committee.)

-Chris Page
San Diego

On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 7:46 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming projects,
> and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database, where you can
> filter by move combination, etc.
>
> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or does
> it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or shortchanging
> dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would be included
> without the author's permission, but it may be that making a huge ton of
> dances freely available and searchable in one place online would be a death
> blow to published books of dances, or have some other negative effect I'm
> not foreseeing right now...)
>
> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
___
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Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Aaron Redfern via Callers]

My guess is a lot of people who write dances would be happy to contribute,
but trying to wrangle all the callers and dances does seem pretty daunting.

Presumably older dances are in the public domain, either by clearly defined
intellectual property laws or implicitly via the folk process.  What if you
started out by adding a ton of chestnuts and other older dances, and then
when you had enough to show, you could open it up for people to contribute
their newer dances directly?


On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming
> projects, and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database,
> where you can filter by move combination, etc.
>
> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or
> does it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or
> shortchanging dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would
> be included without the author's permission, but it may be that making a
> huge ton of dances freely available and searchable in one place online
> would be a death blow to published books of dances, or have some other
> negative effect I'm not foreseeing right now...)
>
> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
___
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Re: [Callers] Giant dance database?

[Jeff Kaufman via Callers]

I think this is a great idea, and the main non-technical limitation is
writing to lots of callers to get their permission to include their
dances.  Several people have proposed something similar, but the
actual work of checking with lots of callers has been too daunting.

On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming projects,
> and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database, where you can
> filter by move combination, etc.
>
> My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or does
> it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or shortchanging
> dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would be included
> without the author's permission, but it may be that making a huge ton of
> dances freely available and searchable in one place online would be a death
> blow to published books of dances, or have some other negative effect I'm
> not foreseeing right now...)
>
> Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
___
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[Callers] Giant dance database?

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

Hi all,

I'm currently in programming school casting about for programming projects,
and I had the idea of a giant searchable contradance database, where you
can filter by move combination, etc.

My question: is this something people would be interested in having? Or
does it run the risk of infringing on intellectual property, or
shortchanging dance writers on book sales, etc.? (Obviously no dances would
be included without the author's permission, but it may be that making a
huge ton of dances freely available and searchable in one place online
would be a death blow to published books of dances, or have some other
negative effect I'm not foreseeing right now...)

Anyway: does anyone have any thoughts on this project?

Cheers,
Maia
___
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