Re: [Callers] Applause or Not...

[Erik Hoffman via Callers]

Sometimes it's hit and miss -- it seems like it's in the stars, no 
applause, next time raucous appreciation. Sometimes you know you're not 
up to your best, or you can tell the band is lagging or lacking. Still, 
that's the night when everyone comes up and says, "Great Dance, That was 
Better than Wild Asparagus," (comparagus, as Peter Barnes used to say -- 
don't know if it happens much any more...). Sometimes you're on top of 
everything, the band is hot, your teaching is good, your right with the 
music when calling, and people come up and say, "what's wrong tonight." 
Sometimes there's not much you can do. But:


As I mentioned earlier, certain communities develop certain habits.

* If I'm dancing, I make sure I applaud with aplomb.
* I do quiet down when the teaching starts.
* I, too, don't teach in the walk-thru. If there really is a problem, I 
ask the caller to address it. If I can get away with it, I teach 
non-verbally.


(Comments addressing other comments and threads.)

But I do still wonder, how to get a community to alter their habits. 
And, if their habit is non-applause on a regular basis, I'd like to 
teach them. Habits, one of the most challenging things to alter...


Now, if they looked at each other and bumped hips, or gave each other a 
high-five, or hugs all around, as mentioned about square dancing, I'd 
take that as applause. But if they just wander off, it still leaves me 
wondering.


~erik hoffman
oakland, ca


On 4/23/2015 10:18 AM, Kalia Kliban via Callers wrote:

On 4/22/2015 7:08 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers wrote:

Hi All,

There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a 
dance. In some communities, when I've been subjected to that 
experience, I've asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply usually is 
something like, "no, the dance was fine (or even great), we just head 
for our next partner..." I know sometimes it's just the night. 
Sometimes, though, it's the community's habit. I spoke with a 
renowned musician the other day, who will no longer play for a 
certain series. One of the reasons: lack of applause -- lack of that 
palpable sense of appreciation.


I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the band 
and caller feel better. If they feel better they play better. And, as 
a dancer, applause usually makes me feel better, too. Any ideas on 
how to encourage applause? Or, if you're in one of those communities 
where applause is minimal, does it bother you?



I had that experience a while back at one of our local contras, when I 
was calling with a really hot band.  We'd finish a dance, get a few 
claps and then just crickets.  It was really depressing and upsetting. 
The dances were going ok, the music was smoking and then... nothing. 
I've just looked back into my dance log and the comment I wrote later 
that night was "I don’t know what was up, but it felt bad-weird from 
the stage."  Applause really does make a difference.


Kalia
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Re: [Callers] Applause or Not...

[Donald Primrose via Callers]

Good morning,

Its been my experience that dancers routinely applaud after each set.. I do
so as well even when calling..turning to the band and acknowledging them. I
go one step further and ask for additional acknowledgment/applause not just
for the band, I ask for a hand for the hall. Paying respect for the hall,
reaches out to the community at large and acknowledges the contribution
from those whom preceded us making the dance possible.

-don primrose
Nelson, NH

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Linda Leslie via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> This is a great topic! Thanks for bringing it up, Erik.
> A few thoughts:
> **I introduce the band before the first dance. "Let's give a warm welcome
> to."  I like to gently set up expectations.
> **If the dancers don't remember to applaud, I remind them, even if it
> means doing this more than once in an evening.
> **Especially during the waltz, I will get off the stage, and mix among the
> dancers, and then applaud like crazy when they end. I've also been known to
> hoot. Nothing like a role model!
> **I, too, have stopped calling for a few series because of not getting
> anything back. I'ld rather spend my time and energy calling for a group
> that has decided that it is just as important to take care of me and the
> band, as it is for me and the band to take care of them., even for a lot
> less money.
> **And for this last reason, I respectfully disagree with Barb, who said "you
> were rocking - but i just needed the community tonight.  don't be offended
> :-D"I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive: dancers can
> get their needs met, and still help the band/caller have their needs met.
> Linda Leslie
>
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 8:57 AM, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Erik (and all),
>
> You certainly hit on one of the issues for me.  I remember calling in one
> community with a pretty well-known popular band, and I gave the band their
> props, as I usually do, but I could not get the dancers to applaud the
> band.  Maybe a bit more at the end of the night, but not much during the
> dance.  OK, I might not be the most well-known popular callers but the band
> is and travelled a long way for not a lot of money and some appreciation
> would be nice.
>
> OTOH, I was in another community, with a local band, and I and the band
> got TONS of applause that night.  It really made me special and as a result
> put that community in a special place in my heart.  I was grateful.  The
> other community kind of gave me that "eh" feeling.  Maybe I called better
> dances in the place I got applause, or maybe I explained things better, I
> don't know.
>
> I know that when I'm dancing I always give applause to all bands and
> callers.  Even if they had off nights.  They are all part of our community,
> too, and communities support bands and callers.
>
> Perry
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a dance.
> In some communities, when I've been subjected to that experience, I've
> asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply usually is something like, "no,
> the dance was fine (or even great), we just head for our next
> partner..." I know sometimes it's just the night. Sometimes, though,
> it's the community's habit. I spoke with a renowned musician the other
> day, who will no longer play for a certain series. One of the reasons:
> lack of applause -- lack of that palpable sense of appreciation.
>
> I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the band and
> caller feel better. If they feel better they play better. And, as a
> dancer, applause usually makes me feel better, too. Any ideas on how to
> encourage applause? Or, if you're in one of those communities where
> applause is minimal, does it bother you?
>
> ~erik hoffman
> oakland, ca
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>


-- 
Don Primrose
Founder, Board Chair
Hundred Nights Inc.  Cold Weather Shelter and Open Doors Resource Center

[Callers] Applause or Not...

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

On 4/22/2015 7:08 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers wrote:

Hi All,

There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a dance. In some communities, when 
I've been subjected to that experience, I've asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply 
usually is something like, "no, the dance was fine (or even great), we just head for our next 
partner..." I know sometimes it's just the night. Sometimes, though, it's the community's 
habit. I spoke with a renowned musician the other day, who will no longer play for a certain 
series. One of the reasons: lack of applause -- lack of that palpable sense of appreciation.

I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the band and caller 
feel better. If they feel better they play better. And, as a dancer, applause 
usually makes me feel better, too. Any ideas on how to encourage applause? Or, 
if you're in one of those communities where applause is minimal, does it bother 
you?



I had that experience a while back at one of our local contras, when I 
was calling with a really hot band.  We'd finish a dance, get a few 
claps and then just crickets.  It was really depressing and upsetting. 
The dances were going ok, the music was smoking and then... nothing. 
I've just looked back into my dance log and the comment I wrote later 
that night was "I don’t know what was up, but it felt bad-weird from the 
stage."  Applause really does make a difference.


Kalia

Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

I also think it's worth mentioning that we can model as dancers the
behavior we'd like to see as callers. Socializing and catching up with
friends is excellent, but when I'm dancing, I make an effort to always
quiet down and listen to the caller whenever they start speaking, and
perhaps gently direct others' attention to the caller (not with a "shh",
but by excusing myself from conversation and looking at the caller). My
hands-4, and sometimes those around us, will generally take the hint. I
think this modeling is especially important around new dancers--we want to
send the message that the walkthrough is something to be listened to, not
something to be chatted through (which is just rude, and even if you're
experienced and don't need to be paying full attention to the walkthrough,
other dancers in the hall do need to pay attention, and you're making
things harder for them).

Another thing I try to do, and try to encourage my friends to do: if I do
need to teach from the floor as a dancer (say, some beginners are getting
hung up on a new move), *do it with as few words as possible, preferably
non-verbally. *Again, the more you talk in line--even if it's for a good
reason--the harder it is for the people who most need to pay attention to
the caller to do so. Teaching verbally from the floor also diverts
attention and authority from the caller in ways that nonverbal teaching
does not. So often as a caller I've seen a problem in the room (in a
walkthrough or a lesson) and tried to correct it, only to find multiple
different experienced dancers explaining the move to small groups, so that
I can no longer get the attention of the room, and it takes much longer to
solve the problem.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:47 PM, John W Gintell via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I certainly agree that a "s" or similar utterance is not a good thing
> to do.
>
> One of the consequences of people talking during the walkthrough  is that
> it sometimes hard to hear the instructions - especially at the back of the
> hall. And of course it is at the back of the hall where there are more
> inexperienced dancers who need it more.
>
> Another problem is that if the musicians are noodling - and of course out
> of synch with the walkthrough -it also makes it harder to hear the caller.
>
> So, it is important for callers speak clearly and loudly during the
> walkthrough and make it clear that it has started;
> and sound people listen at the back of the hall to see what it is like.
>
>   John Gintell
>
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Donna Hunt via Callers wrote:
>
>  Erik wrote:
>
> Often, after people have lined up, they talk with each other, their
> partner, their minor set, or other people around them. Often callers strive
> to get everyone to shut-up so they can start the dance. I've come to
> believe this time of conversation is the main time we get to know a little
> about each other and is thus a "community building time."
>
>  I, personally, love hearing dancers talking amongst themselves.  To me
> it's a reflection that they are having fun and that they feel comfortable,
> relaxed and are "building community".  If they aren't talking enough (by my
> expectation) I'll prompt them early in the evening to say "hi" to their
> neighbors and introduce themselves and this gets them chatting a bit.
> Later in the evening I might begin a dance with a Right Allemande and I'll
> say "Give your right hand to your neighbor and introduce yourself (pause)
> and Allemande Right.
>
> On the other hand I find it rude and detestable for a caller to "s"
> the crowd.  If the caller tries to begin a walkthrough (ie, "Are you ready"
> as Erik suggests) for a time or two, the dancers will "shhh" themselves.
> This (extra time) allows folks to finish their conversations and be ready
> to listen.  The positive benefits to dancers politely socializing is
> tremendous, even if it means the caller needs to call one less dance in the
> evening.
>
>
>  Donna Hunt
>  
>___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention

[John W Gintell via Callers]

I certainly agree that a "s" or similar utterance is not a good thing to do.

One of the consequences of people talking during the walkthrough  is that it 
sometimes hard to hear the instructions - especially at the back of the hall. 
And of course it is at the back of the hall where there are more inexperienced 
dancers who need it more. 

Another problem is that if the musicians are noodling - and of course out of 
synch with the walkthrough -it also makes it harder to hear the caller.

So, it is important for callers speak clearly and loudly during the walkthrough 
and make it clear that it has started; 
and sound people listen at the back of the hall to see what it is like.

  John Gintell

On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Donna Hunt via Callers wrote:

> Erik wrote:
> Often, after people have lined up, they talk with each other, their partner, 
> their minor set, or other people around them. Often callers strive to get 
> everyone to shut-up so they can start the dance. I've come to believe this 
> time of conversation is the main time we get to know a little about each 
> other and is thus a "community building time."
> I, personally, love hearing dancers talking amongst themselves.  To me it's a 
> reflection that they are having fun and that they feel comfortable, relaxed 
> and are "building community".  If they aren't talking enough (by my 
> expectation) I'll prompt them early in the evening to say "hi" to their 
> neighbors and introduce themselves and this gets them chatting a bit.  Later 
> in the evening I might begin a dance with a Right Allemande and I'll say 
> "Give your right hand to your neighbor and introduce yourself (pause) and 
> Allemande Right.
> 
> On the other hand I find it rude and detestable for a caller to "s" the 
> crowd.  If the caller tries to begin a walkthrough (ie, "Are you ready" as 
> Erik suggests) for a time or two, the dancers will "shhh" themselves.  This 
> (extra time) allows folks to finish their conversations and be ready to 
> listen.  The positive benefits to dancers politely socializing is tremendous, 
> even if it means the caller needs to call one less dance in the evening.  
> 
> 
> Donna Hunt
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

This topic has been on my mind in recent months. It's been very helpful for
organizers to communicate the local culture for callers doing a gig for the
first time, for the reason Martha noted.
"We're chatty, but the dancers pay attention. Don't take it as rude." was
recent advice, as an example.

I find a few things I can do as a caller:
- Shorter dances. I aim for 5 dances per hour as a target. Many callers do
4. When dancers have shorter dances, they are hungrier for the next dance,
and they don't physically need as much of a break, so they line up faster.
- Remind them of hands 4 early. I like "As you line up make sure you pass
hands 4 down..." I repeat myself, but I've found this works for me.
- Becket dance? Have them swing partner on the side.
- Non - Becket? Do a zero move like a circle all the way or long lines. The
movement of many people in the room is a really nice way to get attention
without bossing people.
- In general, earn trust. When I teach and call well, I garner attention
easier. When my program fits the crowd well with varied moves at the right
skill level, people are more attentive.
- Develop a teacher voice. Some callers just don't sound confident and
assertive. - Worse, I've seen a few callers get openly frustrated. No
matter what, stay cool.

Ron Blechner
On Apr 23, 2015 11:26 AM, "Martha Wild via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Good point Erik. Also, if you travel, different groups can have vastly
> different cultures. Some years ago I was asked to call a zesty contra in
> another state. I assumed they would want to do a lot of zesty dances and
> planned accordingly. The food was placed outside the dance floor in a long
> hall from the start. After the first dance, which seemed to go well,
> everyone disappeared outside to eat and talk just as I was saying "take
> partners for the next dance". After a five minutes while I worried that
> they hadn't liked the dance I'd called, people drifted back and lined up
> again and about 10 minutes later I did the next dance. Same thing. I
> finally realized that it was their custom to break after each dance, and
> relaxed and stopped trying so hard to get them back and lined up. I got
> through about four dances in the first half and four in the second, where I
> had expected to do more like 11 or 12 total for the time. At the end of the
> night, people came up and said, Wow, you really got us through a lot of
> dances!
>
> Martha
>
> On Apr 22, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers wrote:
>
>  On the question of paying attention:
>
> A while back, in one of these e-groups, someone pointed out that we contra
> dancers keep talking about "community." This post pointed out that we
> contra dancers go to a dance, and, often forsaking applause (yet another
> topic...), run off to find our next partner and line up for a dance. This
> posting compared that to country-western dance, or swing dance, where they
> would sit around a table and talk, get to know others through chatting, and
> not dance every dance, but have other social things happen. It got me to
> thinking:
>
> Often, after people have lined up, they talk with each other, their
> partner, their minor set, or other people around them. Often callers strive
> to get everyone to shut-up so they can start the dance. I've come to
> believe this time of conversation is the main time we get to know a little
> about each other and is thus a "community building time."
>
> My practice now is to say into the mic in a regular talking voice, "Are
> you ready?" If the general banter keeps going on, I wait a couple beats,
> and say, again, "Are you ready?" After two to four times of asking the
> question, someone will say, "Yes!" Then another might do a loud, "S!"
> When people finally quiet down, I teach the dance.
>
> ~erik hoffman
> oakland, ca
>
> On 8/4/2014 10:26 AM, barb kirchner via Callers wrote:
>
> sometimes when dancers aren't paying attention, it's because there are too
> many other things going on in the hall.
>
>  sometimes it's the band warming up or sound checking, but i've seen all
> kinds of things going on - bake sales, people on their mobile devices, a
> group of beginners coming in who don't yet know dance etiquette, or maybe
> the dancers are having trouble hearing you.  sometimes musicians talk
> loudly behind the caller (i'm a musician and a caller) and it's hard to
> understand the caller because the chatter can be heard through mics or
> pick-ups.
>
>  you can't fix some of those things, but you can address retail events in
> the hall, cell phones, sound system, etc
>
>  are your experienced dancers modelling good dance etiquette?  are you
> teaching efficiently, or are you spending so much time talking that people
> lose interest?
>
>  sometimes, i just start the walkthru anyway.  as soon as people realize
> that most people are starting to swing, they get a little more interested
> :-)
>
> cheers,
> barb
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:0

Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention

[Donna Hunt via Callers]

 Erik wrote:


Often, after people have lined up, they talk with each other, their partner, 
their minor set, or other people around them. Often callers strive to get 
everyone to shut-up so they can start the dance. I've come to believe this time 
of conversation is the main time we get to know a little about each other and 
is thus a "community building time."  

 I, personally, love hearing dancers talking amongst themselves.  To me it's a 
reflection that they are having fun and that they feel comfortable, relaxed and 
are "building community".  If they aren't talking enough (by my expectation) 
I'll prompt them early in the evening to say "hi" to their neighbors and 
introduce themselves and this gets them chatting a bit.  Later in the evening I 
might begin a dance with a Right Allemande and I'll say "Give your right hand 
to your neighbor and introduce yourself (pause) and Allemande Right.


On the other hand I find it rude and detestable for a caller to "s" the 
crowd.  If the caller tries to begin a walkthrough (ie, "Are you ready" as Erik 
suggests) for a time or two, the dancers will "shhh" themselves.  This (extra 
time) allows folks to finish their conversations and be ready to listen.  The 
positive benefits to dancers politely socializing is tremendous, even if it 
means the caller needs to call one less dance in the evening.  



Donna Hunt

Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention

[Martha Wild via Callers]

Good point Erik. Also, if you travel, different groups can have vastly 
different cultures. Some years ago I was asked to call a zesty contra in 
another state. I assumed they would want to do a lot of zesty dances and 
planned accordingly. The food was placed outside the dance floor in a long hall 
from the start. After the first dance, which seemed to go well, everyone 
disappeared outside to eat and talk just as I was saying "take partners for the 
next dance". After a five minutes while I worried that they hadn't liked the 
dance I'd called, people drifted back and lined up again and about 10 minutes 
later I did the next dance. Same thing. I finally realized that it was their 
custom to break after each dance, and relaxed and stopped trying so hard to get 
them back and lined up. I got through about four dances in the first half and 
four in the second, where I had expected to do more like 11 or 12 total for the 
time. At the end of the night, people came up and said, Wow, you really got us 
through a lot of dances! 

Martha

On Apr 22, 2015, at 6:59 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers wrote:

> On the question of paying attention:
> 
> A while back, in one of these e-groups, someone pointed out that we contra 
> dancers keep talking about "community." This post pointed out that we contra 
> dancers go to a dance, and, often forsaking applause (yet another topic...), 
> run off to find our next partner and line up for a dance. This posting 
> compared that to country-western dance, or swing dance, where they would sit 
> around a table and talk, get to know others through chatting, and not dance 
> every dance, but have other social things happen. It got me to thinking:
> 
> Often, after people have lined up, they talk with each other, their partner, 
> their minor set, or other people around them. Often callers strive to get 
> everyone to shut-up so they can start the dance. I've come to believe this 
> time of conversation is the main time we get to know a little about each 
> other and is thus a "community building time." 
> 
> My practice now is to say into the mic in a regular talking voice, "Are you 
> ready?" If the general banter keeps going on, I wait a couple beats, and say, 
> again, "Are you ready?" After two to four times of asking the question, 
> someone will say, "Yes!" Then another might do a loud, "S!" When people 
> finally quiet down, I teach the dance. 
> 
> ~erik hoffman
> oakland, ca
> 
> On 8/4/2014 10:26 AM, barb kirchner via Callers wrote:
>> sometimes when dancers aren't paying attention, it's because there are too 
>> many other things going on in the hall.
>> 
>> sometimes it's the band warming up or sound checking, but i've seen all 
>> kinds of things going on - bake sales, people on their mobile devices, a 
>> group of beginners coming in who don't yet know dance etiquette, or maybe 
>> the dancers are having trouble hearing you.  sometimes musicians talk loudly 
>> behind the caller (i'm a musician and a caller) and it's hard to understand 
>> the caller because the chatter can be heard through mics or pick-ups.
>> 
>> you can't fix some of those things, but you can address retail events in the 
>> hall, cell phones, sound system, etc
>> 
>> are your experienced dancers modelling good dance etiquette?  are you 
>> teaching efficiently, or are you spending so much time talking that people 
>> lose interest?
>> 
>> sometimes, i just start the walkthru anyway.  as soon as people realize that 
>> most people are starting to swing, they get a little more interested :-)
>> 
>> cheers,
>> barb
>> 
>> 
>> > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:05:57 -0400
>> > To: maia@gmail.com
>> > CC: call...@sharedweight.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention
>> > From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> > 
>> > It depends why the dancers aren't paying attention. Are there lots of
>> > experienced dancers, such that the walkthrough isn't really necessary?
>> > Are they ignoring walkthroughs the first time through because they
>> > know there will be a second one? Are they just having a lot of fun
>> > with their friends and prioritizing that above listening to the
>> > caller? How does the dance go once it starts?
>> > 
>> > A few strategies I might try:
>> > 
>> > * Not bother with the walkthroughs entirely. If the crowd is ignoring
>> > the walkthroughs because as a whole they don't need them, then just
>> > call the dance. This means only picking dances that can be called
>> > no-walkthrough, but there are still a lot to choose from.
>> > 
>> > * Give the dancers a bit longer between dances before starting the
>> > walkthrough. If they're chatting with neighbors and catching up, let
>> > them do that for a bit. Then once you start the walkthrough go
>> > quickly.
>> > 
>> > * Ask the band for rolling starts, where they play music under the
>> > walkthrough. This makes it harder for people to talk and feels more
>> > like dancing. You don't have time to explain

Re: [Callers] AVOID CROSS-POSTS (was Applause or Not...)

[Karin Neils via Callers]

hmm, this must be happening with some regularity - - I frequently get 
the latter end of a string, but find no evidence of earlier postings 
[unless someone has kept the string as they've posted their own 
response!   ;-)   ]


we are such an interesting collection of folks... if we COULD agree on a 
few guidelines for posting that would resolve a few issues that pop up 
now and again, what would the list be that would bring us all to the 
conversation together, I wonder


'so ignorant of how this all works, and so appreciative that you all 
keep it going!  Karin



On 4/23/15 10:23 AM, Aahz Maruch via Callers wrote:

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015, barb kirchner via Callers wrote:

u...just got a notification that i was not a member...but i've
been a member for a long time. why did i get the notification if i
wasn't a member???

Because Erik Hoffman made the decision -- the wrong decision -- to post
to two different mailing lists simultaneously.  Almost all mailing lists
these days are moderated to prevent posts by non-members, which means
that any cross-posting between lists immediately breaks down with anyone
not subscribed to both lists missing a lot of posts.

Re: [Callers] Applause or Not...

[Linda Leslie via Callers]

This is a great topic! Thanks for bringing it up, Erik. 
A few thoughts:
**I introduce the band before the first dance. “Let’s give a warm welcome 
to…..”  I like to gently set up expectations.
**If the dancers don’t remember to applaud, I remind them, even if it means 
doing this more than once in an evening.
**Especially during the waltz, I will get off the stage, and mix among the 
dancers, and then applaud like crazy when they end. I’ve also been known to 
hoot. Nothing like a role model!
**I, too, have stopped calling for a few series because of not getting anything 
back. I’ld rather spend my time and energy calling for a group that has decided 
that it is just as important to take care of me and the band, as it is for me 
and the band to take care of them., even for a lot less money.
**And for this last reason, I respectfully disagree with Barb, who said "you 
were rocking - but i just needed the community tonight.  don't be offended :-D” 
   I don’t think these two things are mutually exclusive: dancers can get their 
needs met, and still help the band/caller have their needs met.
Linda Leslie

On Apr 23, 2015, at 8:57 AM, Perry Shafran via Callers 
 wrote:

> Erik (and all),
> 
> You certainly hit on one of the issues for me.  I remember calling in one 
> community with a pretty well-known popular band, and I gave the band their 
> props, as I usually do, but I could not get the dancers to applaud the band.  
> Maybe a bit more at the end of the night, but not much during the dance.  OK, 
> I might not be the most well-known popular callers but the band is and 
> travelled a long way for not a lot of money and some appreciation would be 
> nice.
> 
> OTOH, I was in another community, with a local band, and I and the band got 
> TONS of applause that night.  It really made me special and as a result put 
> that community in a special place in my heart.  I was grateful.  The other 
> community kind of gave me that "eh" feeling.  Maybe I called better dances in 
> the place I got applause, or maybe I explained things better, I don't know.  
> 
> I know that when I'm dancing I always give applause to all bands and callers. 
>  Even if they had off nights.  They are all part of our community, too, and 
> communities support bands and callers.
> 
> Perry
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a dance. 
> In some communities, when I've been subjected to that experience, I've 
> asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply usually is something like, "no, 
> the dance was fine (or even great), we just head for our next 
> partner..." I know sometimes it's just the night. Sometimes, though, 
> it's the community's habit. I spoke with a renowned musician the other 
> day, who will no longer play for a certain series. One of the reasons: 
> lack of applause -- lack of that palpable sense of appreciation.
> 
> I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the band and 
> caller feel better. If they feel better they play better. And, as a 
> dancer, applause usually makes me feel better, too. Any ideas on how to 
> encourage applause? Or, if you're in one of those communities where 
> applause is minimal, does it bother you?
> 
> ~erik hoffman
> oakland, ca
> 

Re: [Callers] AVOID CROSS-POSTS (was Applause or Not...)

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015, barb kirchner via Callers wrote:
>
> u...just got a notification that i was not a member...but i've
> been a member for a long time. why did i get the notification if i
> wasn't a member???

Because Erik Hoffman made the decision -- the wrong decision -- to post
to two different mailing lists simultaneously.  Almost all mailing lists
these days are moderated to prevent posts by non-members, which means
that any cross-posting between lists immediately breaks down with anyone
not subscribed to both lists missing a lot of posts.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Applause or Not...

[Perry Shafran via Callers]

Erik (and all),
You certainly hit on one of the issues for me.  I remember calling in one 
community with a pretty well-known popular band, and I gave the band their 
props, as I usually do, but I could not get the dancers to applaud the band.  
Maybe a bit more at the end of the night, but not much during the dance.  OK, I 
might not be the most well-known popular callers but the band is and travelled 
a long way for not a lot of money and some appreciation would be nice.
OTOH, I was in another community, with a local band, and I and the band got 
TONS of applause that night.  It really made me special and as a result put 
that community in a special place in my heart.  I was grateful.  The other 
community kind of gave me that "eh" feeling.  Maybe I called better dances in 
the place I got applause, or maybe I explained things better, I don't know.  

I know that when I'm dancing I always give applause to all bands and callers.  
Even if they had off nights.  They are all part of our community, too, and 
communities support bands and callers.
Perry

  From: Erik Hoffman via Callers 
 To: trad-dance-call...@yahoogroups.com; callers 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 10:08 PM
 Subject: [Callers] Applause or Not...
   
Hi All,

There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a dance. 
In some communities, when I've been subjected to that experience, I've 
asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply usually is something like, "no, 
the dance was fine (or even great), we just head for our next 
partner..." I know sometimes it's just the night. Sometimes, though, 
it's the community's habit. I spoke with a renowned musician the other 
day, who will no longer play for a certain series. One of the reasons: 
lack of applause -- lack of that palpable sense of appreciation.

I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the band and 
caller feel better. If they feel better they play better. And, as a 
dancer, applause usually makes me feel better, too. Any ideas on how to 
encourage applause? Or, if you're in one of those communities where 
applause is minimal, does it bother you?

~erik hoffman
    oakland, ca


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Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention

[Erik Hoffman via Callers]

I've used the statement, "when did SHUT UP become impolite to say?"

~erik hoffman


On 4/22/2015 7:48 PM, Michael Fuerst wrote:

It's interesting that "shut-up" and "quiet down" mean the same.
Michael Fuerst  802 N Broadway  Urbana IL 61801  217 239 5844



On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 8:59 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers 
 wrote:



On the question of paying attention:

A while back, in one of these e-groups, someone pointed out that we 
contra dancers keep talking about "community." This post pointed out 
that we contra dancers go to a dance, and, often forsaking applause 
(yet another topic...), run off to find our next partner and line up 
for a dance. This posting compared that to country-western dance, or 
swing dance, where they would sit around a table and talk, get to know 
others through chatting, and not dance every dance, but have other 
social things happen. It got me to thinking:


Often, after people have lined up, they talk with each other, their 
partner, their minor set, or other people around them. Often callers 
strive to get everyone to shut-up so they can start the dance. I've 
come to believe this time of conversation is the main time we get to 
know a little about each other and is thus a "community building time."


My practice now is to say into the mic in a regular talking voice, 
"Are you ready?" If the general banter keeps going on, I wait a couple 
beats, and say, again, "Are you ready?" After two to four times of 
asking the question, someone will say, "Yes!" Then another might do a 
loud, "S!" When people finally quiet down, I teach the dance.


~erik hoffman
oakland, ca

On 8/4/2014 10:26 AM, barb kirchner via Callers wrote:
sometimes when dancers aren't paying attention, it's because there 
are too many other things going on in the hall.


sometimes it's the band warming up or sound checking, but i've seen 
all kinds of things going on - bake sales, people on their mobile 
devices, a group of beginners coming in who don't yet know dance 
etiquette, or maybe the dancers are having trouble hearing you. 
 sometimes musicians talk loudly behind the caller (i'm a musician 
and a caller) and it's hard to understand the caller because the 
chatter can be heard through mics or pick-ups.


you can't fix some of those things, but you can address retail events 
in the hall, cell phones, sound system, etc


are your experienced dancers modelling good dance etiquette? are you 
teaching efficiently, or are you spending so much time talking that 
people lose interest?


sometimes, i just start the walkthru anyway.  as soon as people 
realize that most people are starting to swing, they get a little 
more interested :-)


cheers,
barb


> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:05:57 -0400
> To: maia@gmail.com 
> CC: call...@sharedweight.net 
> Subject: Re: [Callers] When the dancers aren't paying attention
> From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net 


>
> It depends why the dancers aren't paying attention. Are there lots of
> experienced dancers, such that the walkthrough isn't really necessary?
> Are they ignoring walkthroughs the first time through because they
> know there will be a second one? Are they just having a lot of fun
> with their friends and prioritizing that above listening to the
> caller? How does the dance go once it starts?
>
> A few strategies I might try:
>
> * Not bother with the walkthroughs entirely. If the crowd is ignoring
> the walkthroughs because as a whole they don't need them, then just
> call the dance. This means only picking dances that can be called
> no-walkthrough, but there are still a lot to choose from.
>
> * Give the dancers a bit longer between dances before starting the
> walkthrough. If they're chatting with neighbors and catching up, let
> them do that for a bit. Then once you start the walkthrough go
> quickly.
>
> * Ask the band for rolling starts, where they play music under the
> walkthrough. This makes it harder for people to talk and feels more
> like dancing. You don't have time to explain complex things, so you
> have to give that up, but it's much more forgiving than straight-up
> no-walkthrough.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers
>  
 wrote:
> > At Falcon Ridge this weekend, I saw a couple of different styles 
of dealing
> > with that frustrating state of affairs when 50%+ of the hall just 
isn't

> > paying attention to the walk-through. I'm curious if you all have any
> > particular strategies you employ here, thoughts on how to deal 
with this,

> > how to get the attention of the hall, etc.
> >
> > In dance,
> > Maia
> >
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net 


> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >
> _

Re: [Callers] Applause or Not...

[Erik Hoffman via Callers]

Maia writes:

On 4/22/2015 7:20 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:

I often announce the band again, possibly with a "give a big hand to..."


I have done this, too, or, as the last note goes quiet, announce the 
band name. In certain communities this doesn't do much. I've also 
announced the band at the beginning of a dance. This often does receive 
a round of applause. Of course, it's sort of funny, because often it's 
done when the band is trying to tune. Or start the potatoes...


Also, Barb asks if it's on tour or at a local dance. Both. Been on tour, 
been on a seriously good roll, only to stop at a town where no applause 
whatsoever. And, as noted, certain communities are known for their lack 
of applause, for locals or not. Other communities are known for their 
warm welcome. In our area, we love playing the Sacramento dance because 
they are so appreciative.



~erik hoffman
oakland, CA

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers 
> wrote:


Hi All,

There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a
dance. In some communities, when I've been subjected to that
experience, I've asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply usually
is something like, "no, the dance was fine (or even great), we
just head for our next partner..." I know sometimes it's just the
night. Sometimes, though, it's the community's habit. I spoke with
a renowned musician the other day, who will no longer play for a
certain series. One of the reasons: lack of applause -- lack of
that palpable sense of appreciation.

I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the
band and caller feel better. If they feel better they play better.
And, as a dancer, applause usually makes me feel better, too. Any
ideas on how to encourage applause? Or, if you're in one of those
communities where applause is minimal, does it bother you?

~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
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