Re: [Callers] Giving Weight

[JD Erskine via Callers]

I do (mildly) state that it is a lean. However I don't associate bending 
at the waist with it, myself or publicly in any demonstration of it. I 
will say the two of us in a swing is a bit like a top, a pull string top 
or toy, and I show my two hands, wrists near meeting, finger tips up and 
apart. Those hands are straight. If I see anyone bending I'll kindly get 
them to try it without that.


I also add that we each remain responsible for keeping ourselves upright.

Sometimes, with time available, or if I'm feeling playful I'll suggest 
slowly opening one's grasp a wee bit. "Okay, watch their eyes!" 


This is a personal approach I try occasionally, mostly as I'm a bit of 
goof and like playing around. However if it appears funny (in a safe 
context) it may cement an idea.
[Rigid adults -- Do not try this in your dance community. It's use 
depends on your own personality. /caution]

-
I start a intro session much like Kalia does with circles, experienced 
connection to the music, arms - with springiness, grasp, life, 
connection to each other.


I like the idea of comparing the action again with floppy arms/connection.

I may now cover the allemande immediately after any initial circling, if 
I have them with a partner. That or circling again (large or small 
circles) just before getting into the allemande.

-
I see Giving Weight as one of the more problematic terms when used in 
isolation, or rather with little context. (Another major one is "1s 
cross over" -- from some unknown/unnamed spot. A relative directive. 
Ugh. I don't use this.)

-
Starting that gallop of a buzz step on the right foot, something I very 
recently picked up from this or the Trad Dance Callers list, really 
seems to minimise the sideways or backward movement I've seen some do.


Cheers, John
--
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC

Island Dance - Folk & Country
dance info - site & mail list
http://members.shaw.ca/island.dance/

Re: [Callers] Giving Weight

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

My main concern is how to acquire that tension/counterweight in a swing, if
you do not lean back.
Rich

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On 6/24/2015 11:29 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>
>>
>> How do you descibe giving weight, and how do you teach it for circles,
>> allemandes, and, swings?
>> Rich
>> Stafford, CT
>>
>
> In my beginner sessions, I have them form a ring and then circle left and
> right a couple of times.  Then I ask them to bend their elbows and feel
> "that springy tension between you and the dancers next to you.  If you can
> keep that elasticity while you're connected to other dancers, then you're
> all supporting each other as you circle and turn, and it makes everything
> easier."  And then we circle again, with the extra bit of sproing, and then
> do the same with allemandes.  Just for fun, sometimes I'll have them go
> back to the floppy arms, just to feel the difference.  I also let them know
> that with a little bit of tension in the connection, it's easier for the
> person they're dancing with to give them physical cues.
>
> And I know there's a better word than tension, and I'm pretty sure I've
> used it in the past, but right now I can't think of it.
>
> Kalia
> Sebastopol, CA
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>

Re: [Callers] Giving Weight

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

On 6/24/2015 11:29 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:


How do you descibe giving weight, and how do you teach it for circles,
allemandes, and, swings?
Rich
Stafford, CT


In my beginner sessions, I have them form a ring and then circle left 
and right a couple of times.  Then I ask them to bend their elbows and 
feel "that springy tension between you and the dancers next to you.  If 
you can keep that elasticity while you're connected to other dancers, 
then you're all supporting each other as you circle and turn, and it 
makes everything easier."  And then we circle again, with the extra bit 
of sproing, and then do the same with allemandes.  Just for fun, 
sometimes I'll have them go back to the floppy arms, just to feel the 
difference.  I also let them know that with a little bit of tension in 
the connection, it's easier for the person they're dancing with to give 
them physical cues.


And I know there's a better word than tension, and I'm pretty sure I've 
used it in the past, but right now I can't think of it.


Kalia
Sebastopol, CA

[Callers] Giving Weight

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

How do you descibe giving weight, and how do you teach it for circles,
allemandes, and, swings?
Rich
Stafford, CT

[Callers] More on Programming

[Perry Shafran via Callers]

Some thoughts on this:
I go to callers workshops and sometimes I hear different things from different 
people.  I went to a caller's workshop one time where the leader told us that 
the best dances are ones that have a partner AND a neighbor swing, AND that the 
partner swing MUST come second because it's more satisfying.  I think some 
callers suggest programming to satisfy the experienced dancers and some callers 
(like Tom) suggest programming that is mainly targeted to help new dancers come 
along.
FWIW, I prefer Tom's approach.  You don't know how many times that I have seen 
callers - good, well-respected callers - start off with somewhat of a 
challenging dance that is not very approachable for beginners.  I know as a 
caller I like to build up my program from super brain-dead easy at the start 
and build from there.  Nice Easy Contra is an excellent choice.  

Variety is important to me too.  I think in a hall like Glen Echo that an 
unequal dance MAY not be a good idea but in most halls, why not?  And I agree 
with Tom's thoughts about dances with only one swing.  Someone once said if 
your dance only has one swing it had BETTER contain enough interesting moves to 
make it worth it.  I think this goes to Tom's point of being afraid of dancers. 
 I think there are some callers who teach new callers to be afraid of dancers 
so you'd better give them what they want if you expect to be hired again.

I do think that today's dance crowd really desires certain types of dances and 
I don't see anything wrong in giving them what they want.  But the dancers also 
need to understand that this is brand new for new dancers and that we need to 
start slow and brain-dead before we move on to more intricate figures.  These 
"anchor" dances are very important even though to the experienced dancer it's 
not very interesting, but to the new dancers it might be the hardest thing 
they've ever done.  

As for Tom's notes about people not complaining, it's pretty much a fact that 
some of the most well-known callers (like Tom) don't hear griping because they 
have some "political capital" to spend because of their respect in the dance 
community.  Some of us who don't have that yet hear it.  

I once called a program with maybe 3 dances with no neighbor swing, and I heard 
it from several people.  I have heard others callers with more of a national 
brand come through and call similar dances and no gripes.  
Perry
  From: Tom Hinds via Callers 
 To: callers@lists.sharedweight.net 
 Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 8:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [Callers] Buzz Step Swing
   
I'm going to describe my newish ideas on programming.  But I think it  
will have much more meaning if I also explain how I came up with it.  
For some of you, reading this may be a little uncomfortable.  I'm not  
picking on anyone.  I want you to know that I learned calling the  
hard way (no formal class) and made every mistake you can imagine and  
then some!  And I'm still learning.

When I re-joined the dance board I began doing the sound chores.  
While doing sound for the last 2 1/2 years I sat and watched callers  
and studied what they did.  I watched how they interacted with the  
band and I watched the reactions on the floor.  I was all ears and  
all eyes.  I made copious notes.  From these observations I wrote  
what I consider an advanced calling manuel called The Complete  
Caller.  It's coming out maybe at the end of the summer.

Our attendance at the dance has been going down hill for some time.  
Part of the reason is the hall.  The other reason I believe is the  
lack of training/awareness on the part of many callers.  On many  
occasions the majority of the dancers simply left during the break  
leaving 6-8 dancers for the second half.  It's been that bad.

My newish way of programming may not be for every dance community.  
It may be of some value to those trying to retain beginners.

In terms of programming here's what I've noticed:

1)  All callers, both local and out of town call dances that are  
accessible to the new dancers.  However, almost all of the dances  
called are just barely accessible.  The new dancers NEVER have a  
chance to relax and enjoy.  The effect is that experienced dancers  
see newbies as always stiff and nervous.

2)  almost all of the callers observed either didn't teach the swing  
or taught it in about 30 seconds.  I think these callers like  
torturing the experienced dancers.  Watching the newbies swing with  
each other and the experienced dancers was very, very painful.  I saw  
every possible body hold and footwork imaginable.

3) most callers called programs that were extremely predictable- all  
contras, all with two swings.  This predictability is for myself and  
others a bit boring.  How can you have cold without hot or night  
without day?  I'm currently thinking of making a rule:  at-least one  
contra in the evening can't contain the combination circle left 3/4 

Re: [Callers] Buzz Step Swing

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015, Tom Hinds wrote:
> On Jun 21, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Aahz Maruch via Callers wrote:
>>
>>With Ladies Chain, two dancers change places.  If they fail to execute
>>that part, it's likely that the progression will get affected.  That's
>>probably not going to happen with a swing that ends up with the dancers
>>sashayed or otherwise in the wrong place.
> 
> Aajz, I'm glad you pointed out that you're not calling much.  There are some
> other situations you might not have observed yet.  How about:

Note that I've been dancing contra *and* MWSD *and* IFD for more than a
quarter-century each (plus bits and pieces of ECD and Regency and ballet
and other dance forms).  I have a lot of observations and a lot of
opinions from that.  You might also note that I wrote my dance RAQ more
than a decade before I ever began calling, and my minimal contra plus
two years of MWSD calling haven't changed my opinions much:

http://rule6.info/dance_raq.html

> -the combination, swing neighbor, right and left through.  Let's assume a
> caller spends a great deal of time teaching the right and left through but
> little time on a swing.  If the dancers end the swing sashayed what happens
> just before the right and left through?   Confusion maybe?
> 
> -there's a neighbor swing at the end of the tune.  The beginning of the
> dance starts with an allemande or swing or some other move with a new
> neighbor.  How confusing is it for the beginners (and frustrating for the
> others) when they end the swing wrong?
> 
> I teach my beginning callers this:  If you don't get the newbies to
> correctly end a swing, the caller, the newbies and everyone else will be
> frustrated at various points during the evening.

That's true, but my observation is that people doing the wrong thing for
R Thru causes more breakdowns than people ending the swing on the
wrong side.  Quite possibly other people have different data points on
this subject, but I think I've got a long enough baseline to make my
opinion reasonable.

And the fact that many people teaching newcomers concentrate more on
things like R Thru than swing makes me suspect I'm not alone in my
perception.
-- 
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