Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[David Smukler via Callers]

When calling, I’ve struggled with “gypsy,” not because of its unfortunate 
political reverberations (like Amy, I have used it without intending offense or 
realizing it might cause offense), but because for me it doesn’t roll 
trippingly off the tongue — I guess I don’t really like “verbing" nouns. I also 
completely agree with those who are uncomfortable with caller language that 
seems to require flirtation. People can and will flirt if they wish to, but it 
shouldn’t be suggested as a requirement. All this said, there is lots of 
choreography where I like the figure, and I’ve certainly used it.

In some old square dance calls you sometimes hear “walk around your corner” for 
a move with similar geography. How about “walk around” as a straightforward, 
non-loaded alternative?

David


> From: Amy Wimmer via Callers  >
> Date: October 24, 2015 at 3:12:57 AM EDT
> To: call...@sharedweight.net 
> Subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the 
> email below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a 
> flirty, eye contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at 
> a loss for how to respond, except to apologize for offending. 
> 
> I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no 
> offense. I didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make 
> excuses. Does this move need a new name? How would you respond?
> 
> -Amy
> Seattle
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net 
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net 
> 

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Joy Greenwolfe via Callers]

I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to take 
their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can be 
problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too, but 
Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which references 
traditional German folk dance hand holds. 

I like Michael's suggestion for "eyes." When teaching, it could be described as 
"walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already describe it 
(holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the call could be 
shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies hold eyes" seems to 
roll off the tongue with a good rhythm.  Or maybe "Ladies by the eyes?" 

Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move, 
though.  

There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse the 
dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes with the 
person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe we need an 
alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin is sometimes 
called Sliding Doors. 

A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off? 

I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the 
change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it 
ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers exasperated 
with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if the term is 
more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes" works for me. 

Just some thoughts. 

Joy Greenwolfe
Durham, NC


On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers wrote:

> Flirting - I try not to suggest that
> Name - not worried what we call it
> Suggestion - I sometimes call it 'eyeballs'. It works well.
> -- 
> Michael Barraclough
> mich...@michaelbarraclough.com
> www.michaelbarraclough.com
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Martha Wild via Callers 
> Reply-to: Martha Wild 
> To: Caller's discussion list 
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:36:40 -0700
> 
> I can see from this discussion that there is definitely merit in giving this 
> move a different name, though I had never thought of it as a derogatory term 
> before. I rather like the idea suggested in a previous post of "eddy" because 
> it is short and to the point and sounds different from other calls. "Walk all 
> around your neighbor/partner" is fine for a walkthrough and as a description, 
> but not very good for a quick reminder when you'd rather be calling a lot 
> less.  
> 
> Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have 
> personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" - mostly 
> because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the 
> crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing the 
> star. "Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the oddity 
> of the star - two people backing up and two going forward. It seems to get 
> the job done. 
> 
> Martha 
> 
> 
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: 
>> In square dance, the call "walk all around your left hand lady" is very 
>> close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a left shoulder walk 
>> around.  A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw, but a Left 
>> Dosido.
>> Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or 
>> partner, may be able to replace the gypsy without generating any new terms.
>> Rich
>> Stafford, CT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers 
>>  wrote:
>> I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to
>> face, instead of back to back.
>> 
>> As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos" means
>> back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to face?
>> Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't speak
>> French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many.
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Don Veino via Callers
>>  wrote:
>> > Before I respond directly, I ask that all of us posting what I expect to be
>> > many replies to trim post quotes to just the pertinent bits (particularly
>> > those reading the "digest" version).
>> >
>> 
>> > Curiously enough, I'd raised this naming issue with a group of callers (and
>> > dancers glommed on) at a house party recently. An area caller had tried
>> > rebranding the Gypsy as an Orbit, which this group rejected due to the
>> > existing usage & meaning for that term. One participant was of Romani
>> > heritage and expressed pride at the existing term and satisfaction at it
>> > being used for such a nice dance move and would feel loss were it to be
>> > renamed. I don't mention this to make excuses for anything that might 
>> > offend
>> > but rather to show that there are many possible p

[Callers] Gypsies

[Andrea Nettleton via Callers]

I don't like the idea that a term we use might be offensive to someone.  I 
think part of its tenacity is that it can be used for a whole family of similar 
eye locking moves.  The term walk around will not serve in what is now called a 
gypsy star, or in a traveling gypsy, gypsy chase, or gypsy hey, which all have 
eye contact as a common element.  
In discussing with dancers, I heard objection to the terms catching eyes, 
grabbing by the eyes etc.  made them think of hands in eyes.  Not that they 
didn't understand, but it was distasteful to them.  
Perhaps we could agree to a term like 'facing' to link the diverse moves 
together.  It is used in squares in cases where instead of the usual facing 
someone's back, you are face to face (as in a facing diamond).  This un-knots 
all the alternative moves (facing star, facing hey, travel facing).  
I don't actually think of a plain gypsy as involving a shoulder, but rather a 
side of my face.  Go R face round your N, ladies L face round each other?  
Facing indicates where we should look more or less without demanding eye 
contact.  I like eye contact, but some are profoundly uncomfortable with it.  I 
dislike when they choose to twirl their bodies rather than at least look in my 
general direction.  Facing helps with that. I'm sure we will come up with 
something better, but I'd like a solution that acknowledges this family of 
moves.

I'm not fond of eddy, for its aural similarity to the name Eddie.  Spiral, 
vortex etc, while all sort of indicative of rotation, also indicate to me the 
funnel effect, which is not the only way we use the move.  Many gypsies merely 
move us smoothly on to another dancer.  
One final thought, offered mostly for grins.  I have occasionally thought of a 
gypsy as two people walking round a maypole.  We could say R maypole round your 
N, Ladies L maypole in the center, go one and a half to your P, R maypole and 
swing your partner. :D

Andrea

Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Joy Greenwolfe via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to take 
> their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can be 
> problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too, but 
> Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which references 
> traditional German folk dance hand holds. 
> 
> I like Michael's suggestion for "eyes." When teaching, it could be described 
> as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already describe it 
> (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the call could be 
> shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies hold eyes" seems 
> to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm.  Or maybe "Ladies by the eyes?" 
> 
> Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move, 
> though.  
> 
> There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse the 
> dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes with 
> the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe we 
> need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin is 
> sometimes called Sliding Doors. 
> 
> A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off? 
> 
> I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the 
> change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it 
> ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers 
> exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if 
> the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes" works 
> for me. 
> 
> Just some thoughts. 
> 
> Joy Greenwolfe
> Durham, NC
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

[Amy Wimmer via Callers]

I'm not fond of "eddy," "vortex," or "swirl" because they all imply
twirling, which is not what the gypsy move wants. That defeats the purpose,
in my mind. "Facing" seems most appropriate, useful and descriptive of the
terms suggested.

-Amy

On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:


I don't like the idea that a term we use might be offensive to someone.  I
think part of its tenacity is that it can be used for a whole family of
similar eye locking moves.  The term walk around will not serve in what is
now called a gypsy star, or in a traveling gypsy, gypsy chase, or gypsy
hey, which all have eye contact as a common element.
In discussing with dancers, I heard objection to the terms catching eyes,
grabbing by the eyes etc.  made them think of hands in eyes.  Not that they
didn't understand, but it was distasteful to them.
Perhaps we could agree to a term like 'facing' to link the diverse moves
together.  It is used in squares in cases where instead of the usual facing
someone's back, you are face to face (as in a facing diamond).  This
un-knots all the alternative moves (facing star, facing hey, travel
facing).
I don't actually think of a plain gypsy as involving a shoulder, but rather
a side of my face.  Go R face round your N, ladies L face round each
other?  Facing indicates where we should look more or less without
demanding eye contact.  I like eye contact, but some are profoundly
uncomfortable with it.  I dislike when they choose to twirl their bodies
rather than at least look in my general direction.  Facing helps with that.
I'm sure we will come up with something better, but I'd like a solution
that acknowledges this family of moves.

I'm not fond of eddy, for its aural similarity to the name Eddie.  Spiral,
vortex etc, while all sort of indicative of rotation, also indicate to me
the funnel effect, which is not the only way we use the move.  Many gypsies
merely move us smoothly on to another dancer.
One final thought, offered mostly for grins.  I have occasionally thought
of a gypsy as two people walking round a maypole.  We could say R maypole
round your N, Ladies L maypole in the center, go one and a half to your P,
R maypole and swing your partner. :D

Andrea

Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask

On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Joy Greenwolfe via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to take
their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can be
problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too,
but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which
references traditional German folk dance hand holds.

I like Michael's suggestion for *"eyes." *When teaching, it could be
described as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already
describe it (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the
call could be shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies
hold eyes" seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm.  Or maybe
"Ladies by the eyes?"

Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move,
though.

There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse
the dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes
with the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe
we need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin
is sometimes called Sliding Doors.

A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off?

I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the
change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it
ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers
exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if
the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes"
works for me.

Just some thoughts.

Joy Greenwolfe
Durham, NC 



___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

[Callers] Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

[tavi merrill via Callers]

With regard to the term's offensiveness or lack thereof, i am less
interested in the exact origins of the term's use within ECD than i am in
the implications in pairing the term with that particular move. To be
"gypped" is to be cheated, a term rooted in stereotypes of Romani people as
untrustworthy, and the eyes are associated with gypsies in popular lore
that ascribes a certain mystery or hypnotic power to the gypsy's gaze.
While i am aware of both people who are offended by the term and people who
take pride in it (hmm, how is that different from the N word? or fag?) i
find the term itself less problematic than the web of association among the
term, the eyes, mystery, hypnosis and criminality.

Alternatives to "gypsy" have thus been on my radar for some time now. Most
of the suggestions - orbit, vortex, yada yada - are dismissible, which
leads me to a very simple suggestion.

While flirtation isn't necessary to the move, eye contact is kind of the
point of it. I had forgotten to explicitly teach the move at a recent gig
with a number of beginners and just decided to prompt "eyes." It was
magic. While i haven't yet pressed this into service: "Take eyes with your
[partner/neighbor] and, without hands, turn by the [R/L]." As a prompt,
"eyes" has so much more sense and grace to it than any other term that's
been suggested.

Associated moves (gypsy chase, gypsy star, etc) are another bridge to
cross. Personally, i would feel comfortable removing the term from my
calling as the name of that particular move without feeling a need to
eschew or sanitize dances with the term in the title. I mean, Amy Asked for
Eyes is a little awkward ;)

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Michael Fuerst via Callers]

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 Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801  217 239 5844

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Michael Fuerst via Callers]

The use of gypsy as  a contra dance term is almost as  offensive as a contra 
dance containing a shadow swing. (JUST KIDDING)
I would suggest a response of the following nature:

Hello ___
As you noted,   (i)   you were  impressed by the friendliness of the dancers, 
the quality of the musicians, and the overall fun of the dance; and (ii)  this 
was probably the best first experience  Iyou had when meeting a new dance 
community.  
On the political spectrum, contra dancers on average are far to the left of 
center, with quite a few very far to the left.  They would not tolerate a term 
with intent of disparaging any group.The term gypsy (walking around another 
dancer shoulder to shoulder) has been used in contra dancing  ever since the 
motion was introduced into contra dancing--probably several decades ago.    
[Insert information about the origin of the use of gypsy from previous posts on 
this thread.]Many words and expressions have origins long forgotten in the 
context of their current usage.  You can find many examples of such at  
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/words-literally-changed-meaning-through-2173079In
 xx years of contra dancing, yours is the first lament about this word that I 
ever heard.   For contra dancers the word has no other meaning than walking 
around another shoulder to shoulder.
Our contra dance community takes great pride in the friendliness and fun of our 
dances

Hope to see you at our next dance.
Regards,
 
Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801  217 239 5844 


   

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

A lot of people, including newer dancers or dancers who are just plain shy,
have difficulty with eye contact. I have stopped teaching the Gypsy as
locking eyes with a person, and instead stress looking at the person. In
this way the people who want to look at their eyes will naturally think to
do so, and the people who don't are not being forced to do so.

That's including the word eyes in the move itself is a problem. It is the
same problem of telling people that they have to smile. There are a million
reasons why a person may be enjoying themselves and not smile, perhaps if
they're just focusing. Or, god forbid, a person might not have to enjoy
themselves in your presence, and we should never expect somebody and tell
them to smile.
On Oct 25, 2015 12:56 PM, "Joy Greenwolfe via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to
> take their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can
> be problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too,
> but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which
> references traditional German folk dance hand holds.
>
> I like Michael's suggestion for *"eyes." *When teaching, it could be
> described as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already
> describe it (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the
> call could be shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies
> hold eyes" seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm.  Or maybe
> "Ladies by the eyes?"
>
> Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move,
> though.
>
> There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse
> the dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes
> with the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe
> we need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin
> is sometimes called Sliding Doors.
>
> A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off?
>
> I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the
> change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it
> ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers
> exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if
> the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes"
> works for me.
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Joy Greenwolfe
> Durham, NC
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers wrote:
>
> Flirting - I try not to suggest that
> Name - not worried what we call it
> Suggestion - I sometimes call it 'eyeballs'. It works well.
> --
> Michael Barraclough
> mich...@michaelbarraclough.com
> www.michaelbarraclough.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> *From*: Martha Wild via Callers  >
> Reply-to: Martha Wild 
> *To*: Caller's discussion list  >
> *Subject*: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
> *Date*: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:36:40 -0700
>
> I can see from this discussion that there is definitely merit in giving
> this move a different name, though I had never thought of it as a
> derogatory term before. I rather like the idea suggested in a previous post
> of "eddy" because it is short and to the point and sounds different from
> other calls. "Walk all around your neighbor/partner" is fine for a
> walkthrough and as a description, but not very good for a quick reminder
> when you'd rather be calling a lot less.
>
> Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have
> personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" - mostly
> because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the
> crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing the
> star. "Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the oddity
> of the star - two people backing up and two going forward. It seems to get
> the job done.
>
> Martha
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>
> In square dance, the call "walk all around your left hand lady" is very
> close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a left shoulder walk
> around.  A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw, but a Left
> Dosido.
>
> Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or
> partner, may be able to replace the gypsy without generating any new terms.
>
> Rich
>
> Stafford, CT
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to
> face, instead of back to back.
>
> As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos" means
> back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to face?
> Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't speak
> French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many.
>
> On 

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

Eddie is also a gender name, thus I would rule that out. Vortex doesn't
exactly come off well on the mic. Swirl sounds way too much like circle
unless you are none ciating very very crisp late, in which case you are
going to get some Pardes sounds hissing on the mic.

Thus, I don't like any of the three. I suggest spiral instead.
On Oct 25, 2015 3:02 PM, "Amy Wimmer via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I'm not fond of "eddy," "vortex," or "swirl" because they all imply
> twirling, which is not what the gypsy move wants. That defeats the purpose,
> in my mind. "Facing" seems most appropriate, useful and descriptive of the
> terms suggested.
>
> -Amy
>
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> I don't like the idea that a term we use might be offensive to someone.  I
> think part of its tenacity is that it can be used for a whole family of
> similar eye locking moves.  The term walk around will not serve in what is
> now called a gypsy star, or in a traveling gypsy, gypsy chase, or gypsy
> hey, which all have eye contact as a common element.
> In discussing with dancers, I heard objection to the terms catching eyes,
> grabbing by the eyes etc.  made them think of hands in eyes.  Not that they
> didn't understand, but it was distasteful to them.
> Perhaps we could agree to a term like 'facing' to link the diverse moves
> together.  It is used in squares in cases where instead of the usual facing
> someone's back, you are face to face (as in a facing diamond).  This
> un-knots all the alternative moves (facing star, facing hey, travel
> facing).
> I don't actually think of a plain gypsy as involving a shoulder, but
> rather a side of my face.  Go R face round your N, ladies L face round each
> other?  Facing indicates where we should look more or less without
> demanding eye contact.  I like eye contact, but some are profoundly
> uncomfortable with it.  I dislike when they choose to twirl their bodies
> rather than at least look in my general direction.  Facing helps with that.
> I'm sure we will come up with something better, but I'd like a solution
> that acknowledges this family of moves.
>
> I'm not fond of eddy, for its aural similarity to the name Eddie.  Spiral,
> vortex etc, while all sort of indicative of rotation, also indicate to me
> the funnel effect, which is not the only way we use the move.  Many gypsies
> merely move us smoothly on to another dancer.
> One final thought, offered mostly for grins.  I have occasionally thought
> of a gypsy as two people walking round a maypole.  We could say R maypole
> round your N, Ladies L maypole in the center, go one and a half to your P,
> R maypole and swing your partner. :D
>
> Andrea
>
> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
>
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Joy Greenwolfe via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to
> take their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can
> be problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too,
> but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which
> references traditional German folk dance hand holds.
>
> I like Michael's suggestion for *"eyes." *When teaching, it could be
> described as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already
> describe it (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the
> call could be shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies
> hold eyes" seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm.  Or maybe
> "Ladies by the eyes?"
>
> Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move,
> though.
>
> There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse
> the dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes
> with the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe
> we need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin
> is sometimes called Sliding Doors.
>
> A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off?
>
> I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the
> change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it
> ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers
> exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if
> the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes"
> works for me.
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Joy Greenwolfe
> Durham, NC
>
>
>
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Re: [Callers] Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

[tavi merrill via Callers]

A couple thoughts i left out of the first message:

I suggest "take eyes" rather than "lock eyes" because it's a less
forceful/invasive phrasing and because it mirrors "take right hands," "take
hands four" et cetera. And yes, i've seen others' comments to the effect
that some find eye contact uncomfortable, but eyes are the primary
connection between dancers in that move, so i see no reason to shy away
from including that information in teaching and prompting, and those who
find eye contact uncomfortable can continue avoiding it - as they do
anyway, regardless of what the move is called.

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

[Don Veino via Callers]

I'm concerned spiral and circle are far too similar in sound - particularly
the rise/fall pattern - for those with any hearing challenges. I also
accept the criticism of the similar terms (eg: vortex) as implying a
progressively closer approach (which really only applies in a "meltdown"
situation) or fostering the idea of twirling/spinning while doing the
primary move and that likely extends to swirl.

At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop".

"End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] that
neighbor and continue into a swing."

"Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner."

To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and distinct
and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade across and loop
wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar concept. No obvious
negative meanings in common language (most are positive, e.g.: "in the
loop").
On Oct 25, 2015 8:35 PM, "Ron Blechner via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Eddie is also a gender name, thus I would rule that out. Vortex doesn't
> exactly come off well on the mic. Swirl sounds way too much like circle
> unless you are none ciating very very crisp late, in which case you are
> going to get some Pardes sounds hissing on the mic.
>
> Thus, I don't like any of the three. I suggest spiral instead.
>
>

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

I use loop in several figures already.
On Oct 25, 2015 9:32 PM, "Don Veino"  wrote:

> I'm concerned spiral and circle are far too similar in sound -
> particularly the rise/fall pattern - for those with any hearing challenges.
> I also accept the criticism of the similar terms (eg: vortex) as implying a
> progressively closer approach (which really only applies in a "meltdown"
> situation) or fostering the idea of twirling/spinning while doing the
> primary move and that likely extends to swirl.
>
> At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop".
>
> "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] that
> neighbor and continue into a swing."
>
> "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner."
>
> To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and distinct
> and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade across and loop
> wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar concept. No obvious
> negative meanings in common language (most are positive, e.g.: "in the
> loop").
> On Oct 25, 2015 8:35 PM, "Ron Blechner via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Eddie is also a gender name, thus I would rule that out. Vortex doesn't
>> exactly come off well on the mic. Swirl sounds way too much like circle
>> unless you are none ciating very very crisp late, in which case you are
>> going to get some Pardes sounds hissing on the mic.
>>
>> Thus, I don't like any of the three. I suggest spiral instead.
>>
>>

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

On 10/25/2015 6:32 PM, Don Veino via Callers wrote:

At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop".

"End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around]
that neighbor and continue into a swing."

"Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner."

To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and
distinct and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade
across and loop wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar
concept. No obvious negative meanings in common language (most are
positive, e.g.: "in the loop").


This is the best of the bunch so far, IMO.  And it's pleasantly short.

Kalia

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

[Neal Schlein via Callers]

Like Ron, I use loop in other places, such as teaching a hey.

My big problem with "loop," however, is that it doesn't imply two things in
close proximity that are moving in mirror tandem--looping is a loose, outer
edge, expansive movement and word.  You loop around a stationary person
(cast off), you loop wide in a promenade, you loop around the end of a hey
(take time, don't rush it!), you bring the lady around a stationary gent in
a Cowboy Loop, or you loop to the left in a Grapevine Twist.  Someone who
is loopy is a little off-balance, crazy, being silly, or otherwise acting
in an out-of--the-ordinary manner.  For a figure, all of that implies an
outward-oriented and wide-based motion quite distinct from the Gypsy's
actual feel.

Unfortunately, I don't have another proposal at this time.  Mirror seems
applicable, but that's in use already.

I'd also like to throw another consideration into the ring.  Changing the
name and teaching methods can alter the dancer's perception, experience,
and execution of the figure.  Shakespeare posited that "a rose by any other
name would smell as sweet," but Juliet probably would not be very inclined
to buy, plant, and then sniff a "dung bush;" clearly his argument only goes
so far from a marketing perspective.   "Seesaw" is infinitely more fun than
a mere "left dosado," both to say and hear, and the contra Gypsy feels
different from the square dance walk around--even though they are arguably
the same exact move.

Neal


Neal Schlein
Youth Services Librarian, Mahomet Public Library


Currently reading: *The Different Girl* by Gordon Dahlquist
Currently learning: How to set up an automated email system.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:42 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On 10/25/2015 6:32 PM, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
>
>> At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop".
>>
>> "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around]
>> that neighbor and continue into a swing."
>>
>> "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner."
>>
>> To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and
>> distinct and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade
>> across and loop wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar
>> concept. No obvious negative meanings in common language (most are
>> positive, e.g.: "in the loop").
>>
>
> This is the best of the bunch so far, IMO.  And it's pleasantly short.
>
> Kalia
>
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