Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Cara Sawyer via Callers]

I wonder if anyone has considered assigning some more hindered dancers a
role that is not dancing? Could even make up roles for them. They could
help make sure sound is ok. Could help refill water. Could make sure
people's stuff isn't left. Other roles? Helping to set up. It wouldn't have
to be a real job, just something where they could feel welcomed and useful.
I think it's sad for someone to hear they are not welcome, and if they
could be 'reassigned,' something like "We feel you may create hazardous
circumstances on the dance floor both for you and for others, and in
addition we really need role filled. Could we recruit you?"

I did this in the after-school orchestra I used to lead, and though the
scenario is different it may still prove somewhat relevant. The orchestra's
goal was to get kids off the street, so turning them away could mean that
they ended up somewhere much less safe than with a violin. There were some
kids who just didn't fit in the box. One I recall was significantly
younger, and one was particularly advanced. One was really hyper-active and
sitting for an entire 1.5 hours was not a posability. I used their
abilities differently than I did the other kids, and they not only took
their roles very seriously, but added to the quality of the experience for
the other kids. It also provided a way for the other kids to see how being
out of the box could actually help them out.

That gives them an out and does not ostracize.

Just a thought maybe someone could use.

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I want to be clear that when I suggest other dance venues, I have never
> suggested that dancers stop attending a series.  My suggestion of other
> (additional) venues is so that the dancer finds a user friendly place to
> hone his/her skills.
> Like Don, I believe that our communities should be inclusive.
> Sorry for any misunderstanding.
> Rich
> Stafford, CT
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Don Veino via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Mark Hillegonds via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on
>>> their inability to dance?
>>>
>>
>> No. If we want to consider ourselves open and welcoming then, IMO, I
>> believe we need to model that. There are venues that have a different
>> mission and objective (the limited set of "experienced" dances) where this
>> might be appropriate but for a general dance I'm uncomfortable with the
>> idea of sending someone away because they struggle to perform as others
>> might expect.
>>
>> In the dance series I help run we have several folks with challenges whom
>> dance with us regularly. These include blindness, some memory impairment,
>> perceptual/developmental issues, physical impairment and just plain slowing
>> down. They are all welcome, even though that may cause others to have to
>> adjust - and that's just what we do. Callers adjust their material and
>> timing/calls. Dancers find ways collaboratively to surpass the challenges
>> presented.
>>
>> We strive to keep the hall well mixed, or the dancers will naturally
>> segment themselves such that the difficulties multiply rather than get
>> mitigated. A lot of that has to do with material selection - fidgety
>> fast-action dances will not encourage the mixing. Well constructed dances
>> with great flow (and some space for flourishes/recovery) will. We also have
>> generous experienced dancers who help in partnering.
>>
>> Is it easy to continue this way? Maybe not. It may cost us attendance.
>> There are times I (and others) get frustrated. But then I take a deep
>> breath and move on from the temporary issue knowing the bigger goal. I feel
>> you need to set a view of what you want the culture of your series to be
>> and act in accord. My dance strives to be a real community where we dance
>> and engage *with* people and not just dance *next* to them.
>>
>> Of course there's a difference between lesser capability and
>> inappropriate behavior. We don't tolerate the latter but fortunately we've
>> had few issues in that regard.
>>
>> -Don
>>
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
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>
>


-- 
Cara V. Sawyer
M.M. French Horn
~~

Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

I want to be clear that when I suggest other dance venues, I have never
suggested that dancers stop attending a series.  My suggestion of other
(additional) venues is so that the dancer finds a user friendly place to
hone his/her skills.
Like Don, I believe that our communities should be inclusive.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Rich
Stafford, CT

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Don Veino via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Mark Hillegonds via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on
>> their inability to dance?
>>
>
> No. If we want to consider ourselves open and welcoming then, IMO, I
> believe we need to model that. There are venues that have a different
> mission and objective (the limited set of "experienced" dances) where this
> might be appropriate but for a general dance I'm uncomfortable with the
> idea of sending someone away because they struggle to perform as others
> might expect.
>
> In the dance series I help run we have several folks with challenges whom
> dance with us regularly. These include blindness, some memory impairment,
> perceptual/developmental issues, physical impairment and just plain slowing
> down. They are all welcome, even though that may cause others to have to
> adjust - and that's just what we do. Callers adjust their material and
> timing/calls. Dancers find ways collaboratively to surpass the challenges
> presented.
>
> We strive to keep the hall well mixed, or the dancers will naturally
> segment themselves such that the difficulties multiply rather than get
> mitigated. A lot of that has to do with material selection - fidgety
> fast-action dances will not encourage the mixing. Well constructed dances
> with great flow (and some space for flourishes/recovery) will. We also have
> generous experienced dancers who help in partnering.
>
> Is it easy to continue this way? Maybe not. It may cost us attendance.
> There are times I (and others) get frustrated. But then I take a deep
> breath and move on from the temporary issue knowing the bigger goal. I feel
> you need to set a view of what you want the culture of your series to be
> and act in accord. My dance strives to be a real community where we dance
> and engage *with* people and not just dance *next* to them.
>
> Of course there's a difference between lesser capability and inappropriate
> behavior. We don't tolerate the latter but fortunately we've had few issues
> in that regard.
>
> -Don
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Don Veino via Callers]

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Mark Hillegonds via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on
> their inability to dance?
>

No. If we want to consider ourselves open and welcoming then, IMO, I
believe we need to model that. There are venues that have a different
mission and objective (the limited set of "experienced" dances) where this
might be appropriate but for a general dance I'm uncomfortable with the
idea of sending someone away because they struggle to perform as others
might expect.

In the dance series I help run we have several folks with challenges whom
dance with us regularly. These include blindness, some memory impairment,
perceptual/developmental issues, physical impairment and just plain slowing
down. They are all welcome, even though that may cause others to have to
adjust - and that's just what we do. Callers adjust their material and
timing/calls. Dancers find ways collaboratively to surpass the challenges
presented.

We strive to keep the hall well mixed, or the dancers will naturally
segment themselves such that the difficulties multiply rather than get
mitigated. A lot of that has to do with material selection - fidgety
fast-action dances will not encourage the mixing. Well constructed dances
with great flow (and some space for flourishes/recovery) will. We also have
generous experienced dancers who help in partnering.

Is it easy to continue this way? Maybe not. It may cost us attendance.
There are times I (and others) get frustrated. But then I take a deep
breath and move on from the temporary issue knowing the bigger goal. I feel
you need to set a view of what you want the culture of your series to be
and act in accord. My dance strives to be a real community where we dance
and engage *with* people and not just dance *next* to them.

Of course there's a difference between lesser capability and inappropriate
behavior. We don't tolerate the latter but fortunately we've had few issues
in that regard.

-Don

Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Mark Hillegonds via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> So...what happens if all of the attempts to shepherd and coach and "angel"
> the difficult dancer do not work and their skills and abilities continue to
> be a significant negative impact when they're dancing.
>
> Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on
> their inability to dance?
>
> I realize "inability" is a broad term and I intended it to be so for this
> question. There are lots of reasons why someone may not be able to know
> what to do and/or to be able to keep up when dancing and may not even be
> able to improve.
>
> Is there some point at which you as organizers would consider and
> ultimately such a decision?
>

Here in the SF Bay Area, I know of one dancer who's no longer welcome back
at their local dance because of mobility issues related to aging, and
another who's no longer welcome back because of general behavioral issues
related to Alzheimer's.

As far as I know, these dancers have simply been informed that their
impairments preclude them from dancing with us. (This is different from
being banned for bad behavior - they can still come but would be
discouraged from dancing. By whom, I do not know.) I wasn't involved with
the discussions that led to these decisions, so unfortunately I can't
provide more background, but perhaps other people lurking on this list may
be able to shed more light.

However, we have increased our attention on dancer safety in general, and
it's worth thinking about whether someone's inability to dance actually
affects how safe it is on the floor for them and others around them.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

I have never asked a dancer not to return to a dance.

As a caller, organizer, and as a dancer, I have often suggested other dance
locations that might be more suitable for their skill level.  For instance,
I often refer dancers with difficulties to a the local community dance that
I organize, and sometimes call, or to smaller, beginner friendly dance
communities.

I have recently begun teaching six week Adult Ed sessions, that I call an
"Introduction to Traditional Country Dance".  Often these dancers/students
have dancers that would have trouble elsewhere.  With many, the issue is
that English is a second language, others have physical or other
challenges.

I also lead a seniors' community dance session weekly, and the dancers
range from 60-85 years old.  Most do well at community level dancing, and
several have danced at the local contra communities.

Both of the above situations afford newer dancers opportunities to learn
basics like Heys, Ladies Chain, Square Thrus, and Swings. in a less
intimidating environment.  They also allow for much more
repitition/drilling than at a typical contra dance evening.

I also suggest to these dancers that they attend the pre-dance workshops
even if they do not feel that they are necessary.  These workshops help
newer dancers adjust to the voice and style of the evening's caller, and
provide a quick review of many basics.

Despite all this, I have dancers that still freeze when they encounter a
R Thru in a dance, especially if there is a Ladies Chain, or a Square
Thru in the same dance.

Rich Sbardella,
Stafford, CT


On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Mac Mckeever via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> In St Louis we have had our share of very challenged dancer and have never
> considered this possibility.  We take the removal of anyone from the
> community to be a very serious step.  It has been limited to a very few
> cases of inappropriate contact or other relationship issues.
>
> Mac McKeever
>
>
> --
> *From:* Mark Hillegonds via Callers 
> *To:* Alexandra Deis-Lauby 
> *Cc:* Caller's discussion list 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2017 12:26 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return
>
> Lots of thoughtful discussion and ideas about how to incorporate difficult
> dancers.
>
> Splitting this into another variant of this discussion...
>
> So...what happens if all of the attempts to shepherd and coach and "angel"
> the difficult dancer do not work and their skills and abilities continue to
> be a significant negative impact when they're dancing.
>
> Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on
> their inability to dance?
>
> I realize "inability" is a broad term and I intended it to be so for this
> question. There are lots of reasons why someone may not be able to know
> what to do and/or to be able to keep up when dancing and may not even be
> able to improve.
>
> Is there some point at which you as organizers would consider and
> ultimately such a decision?
>
> On Mar 6, 2017 6:46 PM, "Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Inspired by Marie's other thread, I wonder what tools callers use when
> they encounter a dance floor with such a dancer, especially if there is
> only one who is having so much difficulty but who leaves confused dancers
> in their wake. Do you call to that dancer? Do you call earlier? Do you
> adjust your program accordingly? Something else?
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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> 
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> ___
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>
>

Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Mac Mckeever via Callers]

In St Louis we have had our share of very challenged dancer and have never 
considered this possibility.  We take the removal of anyone from the community 
to be a very serious step.  It has been limited to a very few cases of 
inappropriate contact or other relationship issues.
Mac McKeever

  From: Mark Hillegonds via Callers 
 To: Alexandra Deis-Lauby  
Cc: Caller's discussion list 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 12:26 PM
 Subject: Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return
   
Lots of thoughtful discussion and ideas about how to incorporate difficult 
dancers.
Splitting this into another variant of this discussion...

So...what happens if all of the attempts to shepherd and coach and "angel" the 
difficult dancer do not work and their skills and abilities continue to be a 
significant negative impact when they're dancing. 
Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on their 
inability to dance?
I realize "inability" is a broad term and I intended it to be so for this 
question. There are lots of reasons why someone may not be able to know what to 
do and/or to be able to keep up when dancing and may not even be able to 
improve.
Is there some point at which you as organizers would consider and ultimately 
such a decision?
On Mar 6, 2017 6:46 PM, "Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers" 
 wrote:

Inspired by Marie's other thread, I wonder what tools callers use when they 
encounter a dance floor with such a dancer, especially if there is only one who 
is having so much difficulty but who leaves confused dancers in their wake. Do 
you call to that dancer? Do you call earlier? Do you adjust your program 
accordingly? Something else? 
Thanks,Alex

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Mark Hillegonds via Callers]

Lots of thoughtful discussion and ideas about how to incorporate difficult
dancers.

Splitting this into another variant of this discussion...

So...what happens if all of the attempts to shepherd and coach and "angel"
the difficult dancer do not work and their skills and abilities continue to
be a significant negative impact when they're dancing.

Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on
their inability to dance?

I realize "inability" is a broad term and I intended it to be so for this
question. There are lots of reasons why someone may not be able to know
what to do and/or to be able to keep up when dancing and may not even be
able to improve.

Is there some point at which you as organizers would consider and
ultimately such a decision?

On Mar 6, 2017 6:46 PM, "Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Inspired by Marie's other thread, I wonder what tools callers use when they
encounter a dance floor with such a dancer, especially if there is only one
who is having so much difficulty but who leaves confused dancers in their
wake. Do you call to that dancer? Do you call earlier? Do you adjust your
program accordingly? Something else?

Thanks,
Alex


Sent from my iPhone

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