Re: [Callers] Tempos for Contras (was Re: Tempo for Squares)
I'd expect a contra dance tempo in the 80s to feel not merely slow, but excruciatingly slow, especially if in the low 80s. To get an idea, try playing one of the Youtube videos in the slower half of the list I posted on Wednesday afternoon, and then use YouTube's "Settings" control (click on the gear-shaped icon in the strip at the bottom of the YouTube viewing window) to set the playback speed to 0.75. I don't know whether anyone has done careful systematic testing of liveBPM's accuracy on a varied range of contra dance music. If anyone does, I'd be interested in knowing the result. I have, however, seen liveBPM be seriously confused (if you'll pardon the anthropomorphism) about the tempos of waltzes, where the beats come in multiples of three. I wouldn't be surprised if it could were sometimes similarly inaccurate about jigs, in which the beats subdivide in thirds. For example, perhaps it would sometimes report a tempo of, say, 84 BPM for a jig whose real tempo is 84 * 4/3 = 112 BPM. --Jim On Sep 22, 2019, at 7:26 PM, Richard Hart via Callers wrote: > Sometime over past year someone use liveBPM at the Nelson Monday night dances > a few times. It was interesting to see that the beat per minute varied quite > a bit depending on musicians, dancers, the caller, and particular dance. They > varied from a low in the 80’s up to about 125. > > And, yes, the music seemed slow with bpm in the 80’s, but it worked well > given the dancers on the floor. > > Rich. ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo
While looking for more videos of contra dancing in Denmark, I instead came across a video in which Danish caller Else Bach Nielsen calls a New-England-style square (coincidentally written by Tom Hinds) to the music of visiting American band Phantom Power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJV6_2SWg0s (~116 BPM) I don't know whether the caller set the tempo or left it the band. --Jim On Sep 22, 2019, at 6:55 PM, jim saxe wrote: > > I looked for videos of contra dancing in Denmark and found these three: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hhxwVuoI2g (119-120 BPM) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4KB-uSWkKc (117-118 BPM) > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ALEBBtUbc (~113 BPM) > > These all seem to be from the same event. It's possible that a wider > sampling of contra dances in Denmark (which may not be available Youtube) > would support Tom's recollection of faster tempos. > ... ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempos for Contras (was Re: Tempo for Squares)
Sometime over past year someone use liveBPM at the Nelson Monday night dances a few times. It was interesting to see that the beat per minute varied quite a bit depending on musicians, dancers, the caller, and particular dance. They varied from a low in the 80’s up to about 125. And, yes, the music seemed slow with bpm in the 80’s, but it worked well given the dancers on the floor. Rich. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 22, 2019, at 12:11 PM, Rich Goss via Callers > wrote: > > There is a app for iphone or Android called liveBPM. A lot of bands use it. >I usually have if going when we play.Very useful tool.We also use > it in rehearsal to identify dips or spikes in the tempo over the course of a > set. > > We generally try to play between 110 and 120 depending on the set and how it > matches up to the dance. Higher for squares, around 128. > > As a caller I will sometimes ask for a tempo range that works well wih a > particular dance. > > Most of you are probably familiar with liveBPM. It’s been around a while. > > Rich > ___ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempo
I looked for videos of contra dancing in Denmark and found these three: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hhxwVuoI2g (119-120 BPM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4KB-uSWkKc (117-118 BPM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ALEBBtUbc (~113 BPM) These all seem to be from the same event. It's possible that a wider sampling of contra dances in Denmark (which may not be available Youtube) would support Tom's recollection of faster tempos. The videos do seem to support Tom's observation about the infrequency of improvisation. On casual viewing, without trying to look carefully at each visible dancer in each video, I didn't notice anyone twirling out of swings much less doing dips, etc., and I noticed only one place where it seemed that someone (partially obscured from the camera by other dancers) embellished a nominal courtesy turn with a twirl. In 1992, I attended a conference in Denmark and managed to find my way to a couple of dances while I was there. I don't have a specific recollection about the tempos, but if I recall correctly, the events I got to were regular local dances with recorded music (probably on cassette or vinyl). That might have meant that the callers were in control of variable-speed players. --Jim > On Sep 22, 2019, at 4:53 PM, tom hinds via Callers > wrote: > > I believe that the tempo for dancing contras in the United States has to do > with the style and wants of the dancers. It’s the desire to improvise and > flirt which I think is an integral part of the US contra scene and is the > reason for the tempo being what it is. > > If you look at the contra dancing in Denmark, the tempos are much faster. > Although I haven’t been there for several years they don’t improvise and they > don’t do much if any flirting either. They dance very straight. My > conclusion from watching them quite a bit is that slower tempos would leave > them standing around which they wouldn’t find as much fun. I’ve never timed > the music but I would guess it’s easily at 124 bpm or higher, definitely the > same as a tempo for squares here. > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Saving myself after a crash
Thank you all for your excellent advice! I realize I should have mentioned that the 2 times I’ve crashed were during no-walk-thru medleys. So I didn’t have the option of just letting the dancers sort it out themselves, since both times I faltered in the first or 2nd time thru the 3rd dance in the medley. Hash calling might have been a bit more of an option then than in a regular dance because they’re expecting me to be changing things up. But I still agree it would likely have confused folks—the advice received has been MOST helpful! Also it goes without saying that my future mistakes will most often NOT be during no-walk-thru medleys. So all this advice (on how to recover during a regular dance) is EXTREMELY helpful! Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions! I feel (a little) less nervous, having a plan in case things fall apart! BTW, in case anyone is about to write and say I shouldn’t be calling medleys if I’m a beginner, they were both at open mic sessions during a caller’s workshop. It was a time to safely stretch my boundaries, and I was grateful to have those experiences there, rather than at my home dance! :-) Thanks, everyone! Becky > On Sep 22, 2019, at 8:36 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers > wrote: > > Yeah, I agree with everything said here. If you DO decide to go the hash > calling route, definitely let the crowd know that you’re doing something > different and deviating on purpose: with a “listen up” or something like > that. > > Often the dancers DO sort themselves out, and the dance can just go on. If I > screwed up a call, I like to make an extra big point of it the next time > through—either saying it louder/more deliberately, getting the hall to “say > it with me: long lines forward and back” or something—to acknowledge that _I_ > fucked up and it wasn’t the dancers’ fault. > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:21 PM David Harding via Callers > mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> > wrote: > I agree with Jim. As a dancer, I've danced through a fair number of > bouts of caller confusion. My two cents: What seems to me to work best > is for the caller to know at least one point in each dance that we might > call an anchor point. "Oops, I slipped up there. Find your partner and > swing on the side." Or something, preferably with their partners > because if they are lost they probably don't know who their neighbors > are at the moment. From that point, tell them to wait for the music, > then continue from there. Waiting is easier than responding to hash > calling, especially unexpected hash calling. > > Dave Harding > > > On 9/21/2019 10:01 PM, jim saxe via Callers wrote: > > Becky, > > > > I may be off-base about this, and I'd welcome differing opinions from other > > list members, especially if they're based on actual experience, but I > > expect you would find some dancers who seemed *amazingly* resistant to > > dancing a hash-called recovery routine of the sort that you describe. It's > > just not the sort of thing contra dancers are trained to expect. > > > > Some of the dancers who can most easily remember how the dance was supposed > > to go (if you hadn't muffed a call and sent things of the rails) will want > > to continue doing what they "know" they're supposed to do and try to help > > their partners and neighbors to do the same. Unless they think you're > > going into a contra medley, they may think the calls for your attempted > > recovery routine are just more mistakes. > > > > The least skilled dancers--the ones who are most dependent on the > > surrounding dancers to get them through the pattern of a dance--may just > > have their brains totally full of stuff like "Uh-oh! Something feels wrong! > > I'm confused! What's going on here? It's probably my fault! Oh, dear; oh, > > dear; oh dear!" and not have any attention left over for listening to your > > calls. And if they do try to listen, they might expect that you are > > attempting to tell them how to do the dance they've just been doing (as > > opposed to the improvised thing you're actually calling) and they may be > > surprised that what you say isn't putting them into a familiar place. And > > if they do get to a place that seems familiar, they might next try to do > > the thing they have been habituated to do when they get to that familiar > > place, even if it's not what you call at that point, and even if doing that > > habitual thing won't help them recover because they're at the "familiar" > > place 8 or 12 bars later than they would have been there in the original > > dance. Moreover, those less skilled dancers may also have "experienced" > > dancers nearby trying to "help" them do whatever those experienced dancers > > "know" should come next, which, as I said earlier may not be your recovery > > routine. > > > > If the dance is fairly straightforward, with no out-of-minor-set > > interactions (so that, for example, there are no
Re: [Callers] Saving myself after a crash
Yeah, I agree with everything said here. If you DO decide to go the hash calling route, definitely let the crowd know that you’re doing something different and deviating on purpose: with a “listen up” or something like that. Often the dancers DO sort themselves out, and the dance can just go on. If I screwed up a call, I like to make an extra big point of it the next time through—either saying it louder/more deliberately, getting the hall to “say it with me: long lines forward and back” or something—to acknowledge that _I_ fucked up and it wasn’t the dancers’ fault. On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:21 PM David Harding via Callers < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I agree with Jim. As a dancer, I've danced through a fair number of > bouts of caller confusion. My two cents: What seems to me to work best > is for the caller to know at least one point in each dance that we might > call an anchor point. "Oops, I slipped up there. Find your partner and > swing on the side." Or something, preferably with their partners > because if they are lost they probably don't know who their neighbors > are at the moment. From that point, tell them to wait for the music, > then continue from there. Waiting is easier than responding to hash > calling, especially unexpected hash calling. > > Dave Harding > > > On 9/21/2019 10:01 PM, jim saxe via Callers wrote: > > Becky, > > > > I may be off-base about this, and I'd welcome differing opinions from > other list members, especially if they're based on actual experience, but I > expect you would find some dancers who seemed *amazingly* resistant to > dancing a hash-called recovery routine of the sort that you describe. It's > just not the sort of thing contra dancers are trained to expect. > > > > Some of the dancers who can most easily remember how the dance was > supposed to go (if you hadn't muffed a call and sent things of the rails) > will want to continue doing what they "know" they're supposed to do and try > to help their partners and neighbors to do the same. Unless they think > you're going into a contra medley, they may think the calls for your > attempted recovery routine are just more mistakes. > > > > The least skilled dancers--the ones who are most dependent on the > surrounding dancers to get them through the pattern of a dance--may just > have their brains totally full of stuff like "Uh-oh! Something feels wrong! > I'm confused! What's going on here? It's probably my fault! Oh, dear; oh, > dear; oh dear!" and not have any attention left over for listening to your > calls. And if they do try to listen, they might expect that you are > attempting to tell them how to do the dance they've just been doing (as > opposed to the improvised thing you're actually calling) and they may be > surprised that what you say isn't putting them into a familiar place. And > if they do get to a place that seems familiar, they might next try to do > the thing they have been habituated to do when they get to that familiar > place, even if it's not what you call at that point, and even if doing that > habitual thing won't help them recover because they're at the "familiar" > place 8 or 12 bars later than they would have been there in the original > dance. Moreover, those less skilled dancers may also have "experienced" > dancers nearby trying to "help" them do whatever those experienced dancers > "know" should come next, which, as I said earlier may not be your recovery > routine. > > > > If the dance is fairly straightforward, with no out-of-minor-set > interactions (so that, for example, there are no interactions with > "shadows" and you don't temporarily progress to new neighbors then revisit > previous neighbors before progressing for good) a possible recovery method > would be to admit that you goofed and then, as the end of the tune > approaches say something like "OK. Just look for your next neighbor > somehow. WAIT for the music. ... Ready ... set ... Balance and swing" (or > some other appropriate thing if the dance begins a different way). > > > > Then you may still have to deal with couples that somehow get stranded > between two foursomes. The usual rule in this case is that the stranded > couples should go to the bottom of their set. If they don't know to do > that on their own, you could tell them: "If you're left out, go to the > bottom" or "If you don't have another couple to dance with, go to the > bottom" or "Left-over couples, just go the end of the line." And they > might do it. Or they might react as if somebody had just turned off your > microphone and erected an inch-thick plexiglas wall in front of the stage. > > > > There might also be some people who have found a new neighbor to start > the next round of the dance but who are somehow in a different foursome > from their partner. If they can't sort that out on their own, I can't > think of anything the caller can say over the mic that will help, short of > bringing the dance to a stop
[Callers] Tempo
I believe that the tempo for dancing contras in the United States has to do with the style and wants of the dancers. It’s the desire to improvise and flirt which I think is an integral part of the US contra scene and is the reason for the tempo being what it is. If you look at the contra dancing in Denmark, the tempos are much faster. Although I haven’t been there for several years they don’t improvise and they don’t do much if any flirting either. They dance very straight. My conclusion from watching them quite a bit is that slower tempos would leave them standing around which they wouldn’t find as much fun. I’ve never timed the music but I would guess it’s easily at 124 bpm or higher, definitely the same as a tempo for squares here. Sent from my iPad ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Saving myself after a crash
I agree with Jim. As a dancer, I've danced through a fair number of bouts of caller confusion. My two cents: What seems to me to work best is for the caller to know at least one point in each dance that we might call an anchor point. "Oops, I slipped up there. Find your partner and swing on the side." Or something, preferably with their partners because if they are lost they probably don't know who their neighbors are at the moment. From that point, tell them to wait for the music, then continue from there. Waiting is easier than responding to hash calling, especially unexpected hash calling. Dave Harding On 9/21/2019 10:01 PM, jim saxe via Callers wrote: Becky, I may be off-base about this, and I'd welcome differing opinions from other list members, especially if they're based on actual experience, but I expect you would find some dancers who seemed *amazingly* resistant to dancing a hash-called recovery routine of the sort that you describe. It's just not the sort of thing contra dancers are trained to expect. Some of the dancers who can most easily remember how the dance was supposed to go (if you hadn't muffed a call and sent things of the rails) will want to continue doing what they "know" they're supposed to do and try to help their partners and neighbors to do the same. Unless they think you're going into a contra medley, they may think the calls for your attempted recovery routine are just more mistakes. The least skilled dancers--the ones who are most dependent on the surrounding dancers to get them through the pattern of a dance--may just have their brains totally full of stuff like "Uh-oh! Something feels wrong! I'm confused! What's going on here? It's probably my fault! Oh, dear; oh, dear; oh dear!" and not have any attention left over for listening to your calls. And if they do try to listen, they might expect that you are attempting to tell them how to do the dance they've just been doing (as opposed to the improvised thing you're actually calling) and they may be surprised that what you say isn't putting them into a familiar place. And if they do get to a place that seems familiar, they might next try to do the thing they have been habituated to do when they get to that familiar place, even if it's not what you call at that point, and even if doing that habitual thing won't help them recover because they're at the "familiar" place 8 or 12 bars later than they would have been there in the original dance. Moreover, those less skilled dancers may also have "experienced" dancers nearby trying to "help" them do whatever those experienced dancers "know" should come next, which, as I said earlier may not be your recovery routine. If the dance is fairly straightforward, with no out-of-minor-set interactions (so that, for example, there are no interactions with "shadows" and you don't temporarily progress to new neighbors then revisit previous neighbors before progressing for good) a possible recovery method would be to admit that you goofed and then, as the end of the tune approaches say something like "OK. Just look for your next neighbor somehow. WAIT for the music. ... Ready ... set ... Balance and swing" (or some other appropriate thing if the dance begins a different way). Then you may still have to deal with couples that somehow get stranded between two foursomes. The usual rule in this case is that the stranded couples should go to the bottom of their set. If they don't know to do that on their own, you could tell them: "If you're left out, go to the bottom" or "If you don't have another couple to dance with, go to the bottom" or "Left-over couples, just go the end of the line." And they might do it. Or they might react as if somebody had just turned off your microphone and erected an inch-thick plexiglas wall in front of the stage. There might also be some people who have found a new neighbor to start the next round of the dance but who are somehow in a different foursome from their partner. If they can't sort that out on their own, I can't think of anything the caller can say over the mic that will help, short of bringing the dance to a stop and getting everyone to regroup. Here's a story that comes to mind, not about a recovery routine but about a different attempt to get dancers to do something on the fly that I hadn't explicitly taught during the walk-through: I was calling to a small group of mixed-skilled (but on average not very skilled) dancers in small city a few hours away from the nearest "hot" contra dance scene and for some reason I had just picked a dance in which only the #1 couples go down the hall and return. I guess I hadn't taught the role of the #2 dancers in maintaining the position of the set, and I saw that the sets were stretching and drifting further down the hall with each repeat. So next time I sent the 1s down the hall, I said something like "2s move up". No effect. Hmm. Maybe the 2s
[Callers] Jim DeNigris
Hello folks, I sadly relay that CT square dance caller Jim DeNigris passed away last night. Jim was so vital to New England MWSD. He served in NECCA offices and on many Convention Committees. Jim was a friend and he always the perfect gentleman in all his dealings. Rich ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempos for Contras (was Re: Tempo for Squares)
There is a app for iphone or Android called liveBPM. A lot of bands use it. I usually have if going when we play.Very useful tool.We also use it in rehearsal to identify dips or spikes in the tempo over the course of a set. We generally try to play between 110 and 120 depending on the set and how it matches up to the dance. Higher for squares, around 128. As a caller I will sometimes ask for a tempo range that works well wih a particular dance. Most of you are probably familiar with liveBPM. It’s been around a while. Rich ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempos for Contras (was Re: Tempo for Squares)
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 09:02:31 +0100, John Sweeney via Callers wrote: > http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm is an excellent tool for timing music or > videos on your computer. John - That's so useful! Thank you very much. Colin Hume ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Re: [Callers] Tempos for Contras (was Re: Tempo for Squares)
http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm is an excellent tool for timing music or videos on your computer. Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs ___ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
