Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015, susanelberger via Callers wrote:
>
> It seems that we have already gone pretty far down that path. Every
> time I look at dance with odd calls, "slice and dice" being one
> recently posted, along with the various place name twirls, it troubles
> me deeply. I have to remember that one of the joys of contra dancing
> compared to MWSD is that, at least theoretically, anyone can walk in
> off the street and dance. The more we create esoteric names for calls
> the less possible that becomes.

Emphasizing Colin's comments:

At the MWSD caller convention this year, Clark Baker ran a "zesty contra"
late-night session, where he taught the dances, then used recorded music
with Lisa Greenleaf's calling overlaid.  One of the points he was
demonstrating was how easy some of the more difficult MWSD figures are
when you teach them in "isolation" as part of a single dance
(particularly in terms of the constant repetition).

In the end, it's not how esoteric the name is, but how well-constructed
the figure is for smooth dance flow and how well you fit the figure into
a complete dance.
-- 
Square/Contra Callerhttp://caller.aahz.ws/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
So many dances, so little time

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[John Sweeney via Callers]

And don't forget that all the terms Colin mentions have meant different
things depending on the century, the country, the style of the dance and the
personal idiosyncrasies of the dancing master/caller.

But that has never stopped people enjoying the dances!

These forums are great for helping to spread standardised usage, but as long
as the caller makes the terminology clear during the walk-through then it
works.

Happy dancing,
John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

-Original Message-
From: co...@colinhume.com via Callers
[mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net] 
Sent: 15 June 2015 18:53
To: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:23:54 + (UTC), Susan Elberger via Callers wrote:
> The more we create esoteric names for calls the less possible that
> becomes.

"Mad Robin" is pretty esoteric.  But so are "hey", "allemande", do-si-do,
"balance" and others - we're so used to these terms we forget that they are
meaningless to non-dancers.  (OK, they might know enough to do a do-si-do,
with arms folded.)

Colin Hume

Email co...@colinhume.com  Web site http://www.colinhume.com



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Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

On 6/14/2015 9:48 AM, Richard Hart via Callers wrote:

I've considered writing an entirely hands free dance, as an example,
along with a very similar dance that used hands for the corresponding
moves. The hands free dance would certainly need to used only at an
expert-only dance.


I'm a caller married to a dance musician.  As a result I almost never 
get to dance with my husband.  A few years back, he was the high bidder 
in a camp auction where Alan Winston was offering to write a dance to 
the winner's specs. Jon asked him for a dance with no hand contact so 
that he and I could dance together while he played the tune.  It's an 
English dance in waltz time, and it's quite lovely.  At a recent 
Pasadena ECD ball Jon and I took advantage of wireless mic technology to 
call and play it from the floor as we danced together.  It's called The 
Fiddler's Wife.  I wouldn't spring it on brand-new dancers, but it's 
fine for an intermediate crowd.


And at the other end of the spectrum, I wrote another 3/4 ECD for some 
longtime members of our local Sebastopol dance, one of whom was starting 
to need a little more help on the floor (she had some balance and 
mobility issues).  For them, I wrote a dance where you only let go of 
your partner for 2 bars during the whole sequence.  It's a great one for 
new dancers.


Kalia

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[co...@colinhume.com via Callers]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:23:54 + (UTC), Susan Elberger via Callers wrote:
> The more we create esoteric names for calls the less possible that
> becomes.

"Mad Robin" is pretty esoteric.  But so are "hey", "allemande", do-si-do,
"balance" and others - we're so used to these terms we forget that they are
meaningless to non-dancers.  (OK, they might know enough to do a do-si-do,
with arms folded.)

Colin Hume

Email co...@colinhume.com  Web site http://www.colinhume.com



mail2web.com  What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Michael Fuerst via Callers]

This past weekend I attended the Dance Trance weekend in Lexington KY, with Sue 
Rosen calling.She managed to teach all the dances using basic terms to describe 
all the "odd calls"As long as an odd call is explained, a caller can announce a 
term (even if somewhat standardized) to be used for the duration of the 
dance.It might be helpful to accumulate a list "odd calls" that are becoming 
common, so that callers can ponder them and consider their own more basic ways 
to describe them.
To me one of the more challenging to describe succinctly is "ricochet heys"     
Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801  217 239 5844 


 On Monday, June 15, 2015 11:26 AM, susanelberger via Callers 
 wrote:
   

 It seems that we have already gone pretty far down that path.  Every time I 
look at dance with odd calls, "slice and dice" being one recently posted, along 
with the various place name twirls, it troubles me deeply.  I have to remember 
that one of the joys of contra dancing compared to MWSD is that, at least 
theoretically, anyone can walk in off the street and dance.  The more we create 
esoteric names for calls the less possible that becomes.
Susan ElbergerLowell, MA  From: Neal Schlein via Callers 

 To: call...@sharedweight.net 
 Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 12:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada
   

Sorry!  I finished that email in a hurry and meant to say what Aahz noted: 
slide thru is not actually gender neutral; it simply can be done by two people 
dancing the same role, with the results of a curlique.
I really wouldn't encourage folks to use all of the square dance figures and 
terms, tough.  Down that path lies CallerLab.  While I enjoy MWSD myself, it is 
too complex to be readily accessible and I am afraid contra is heading that way 
already.NealSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[susanelberger via Callers]

It seems that we have already gone pretty far down that path.  Every time I 
look at dance with odd calls, "slice and dice" being one recently posted, along 
with the various place name twirls, it troubles me deeply.  I have to remember 
that one of the joys of contra dancing compared to MWSD is that, at least 
theoretically, anyone can walk in off the street and dance.  The more we create 
esoteric names for calls the less possible that becomes.
Susan ElbergerLowell, MA  From: Neal Schlein via Callers 

 To: call...@sharedweight.net 
 Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 12:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada
   

Sorry!  I finished that email in a hurry and meant to say what Aahz noted: 
slide thru is not actually gender neutral; it simply can be done by two people 
dancing the same role, with the results of a curlique.
I really wouldn't encourage folks to use all of the square dance figures and 
terms, tough.  Down that path lies CallerLab.  While I enjoy MWSD myself, it is 
too complex to be readily accessible and I am afraid contra is heading that way 
already.NealSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Richard Hart via Callers]

The hands vs. hands fee dichotomy is an interesting one for contra
dance callers. Contra dane callers are calling for halls filled with
some combination of experienced dancers and absolute beginners. With
hands free moves, some absolute beginners can be in the next set
before anyone notices the problem.  When I see that the room is filled
with beginners, I try to avoid hands free moves (allamande L rather
than do-si-do, for example).

I've considered writing an entirely hands free dance, as an example,
along with a very similar dance that used hands for the corresponding
moves. The hands free dance would certainly need to used only at an
expert-only dance.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:09 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers
 wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015, Neal Schlein via Callers wrote:
>>
>> Interesting note: Star Thru is one of the few figures in modern
>> squares which by definition CANNOT be done by two facing people
>> dancing the same gender role.  Box the Gnat is another, and possibly
>> California Twirl depending on the exact definition.  The
>> gender-neutral replacements are Slide Thru and Partner Trade.
>
> The flip side of Slide Thru and Partner Trade is that because they are
> no-hands, they change hand availability significantly and body flow
> somewhat.  Some MWSD callers argue that we should drop California Twirl,
> Box the Gnat, and Star Thru because we have the no-hands versions, but
> those of us who have field-tested that discovered that the hands versions
> really work better for a lot of choreography.  (The gender-neutral
> sequence for Box the Gnat is Touch 1/4 and Roll, which does have hands
> but significantly different body flow.)
>
> NOTE CAREFULLY: Slide Thru is not gender-neutral because it has specific
> turning instructions based on gender; it's just the no-hands version of
> Star Thru that allows same-gender operation (i.e. same-gender ends up
> facing opposite directions instead of same direction).  However, Partner
> Trade is a genuinely gender-neutral dance figure.
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
>   <*>   <*>   <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
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Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Neal Schlein via Callers]

Sorry!  I finished that email in a hurry and meant to say what Aahz noted: 
slide thru is not actually gender neutral; it simply can be done by two people 
dancing the same role, with the results of a curlique.

I really wouldn't encourage folks to use all of the square dance figures and 
terms, tough.  Down that path lies CallerLab.  While I enjoy MWSD myself, it is 
too complex to be readily accessible and I am afraid contra is heading that way 
already.
Neal
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015, Neal Schlein via Callers wrote:
>
> Interesting note: Star Thru is one of the few figures in modern
> squares which by definition CANNOT be done by two facing people
> dancing the same gender role.  Box the Gnat is another, and possibly
> California Twirl depending on the exact definition.  The
> gender-neutral replacements are Slide Thru and Partner Trade.

The flip side of Slide Thru and Partner Trade is that because they are
no-hands, they change hand availability significantly and body flow
somewhat.  Some MWSD callers argue that we should drop California Twirl,
Box the Gnat, and Star Thru because we have the no-hands versions, but
those of us who have field-tested that discovered that the hands versions
really work better for a lot of choreography.  (The gender-neutral
sequence for Box the Gnat is Touch 1/4 and Roll, which does have hands
but significantly different body flow.)

NOTE CAREFULLY: Slide Thru is not gender-neutral because it has specific
turning instructions based on gender; it's just the no-hands version of
Star Thru that allows same-gender operation (i.e. same-gender ends up
facing opposite directions instead of same direction).  However, Partner
Trade is a genuinely gender-neutral dance figure.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Neal Schlein via Callers]

There are many others out there, as well.  I can't name one where you
swap and then face, but I'm sure there was one.  Take a look through
Burlson's Square Dance Encyclopedia to find it.  With a squares group
I'd call it as "California Twirl/Partner Trade and Roll To Face,"
although I think Trade and Roll would suffice.

Lots of figures were developed (with multiple names) between the 1940s
and 1980s, but they are no longer on the active call lists.
CallerLab's preference in recent years has been to eliminate calls
that are mirror duplicates and go with the phrase "left."  For
example, Swat the Flea is now known only as "Left Box the Gnat," a
"Nevada Twirl" is now "Left California Twirl," and "Seesaw" (except in
the case of the combined "seesaw round your courner, dosado your own")
is now "Left Dosado."  I learned THAT one when I tried to use Seesaw
in Arizona and the dancers got mad at me...I told them to just do it
anyway.

Other figures:

Curlique: As Box the Gnat, trading places, but only change facing by
1/4 right-face instead of 1/2.  In a contra, this would set you up for
a box circulate if done along the lines or for a march along the
set/walk and dodge progression if done across.  There was a left-hand
version of that, but I don't recall the name.

Left Star Thru: A Star Thru done with Men's left, Lady's right hands.
I'm sure it had an older name, but I don't know it.  (As Erik said, in
a Star Thru the dancers make an arch with the indicated hands and pass
by with the lady going under the arch; while trading positions, they
also both turn their facing 1/4 in the direction of the joined hand.
This ends with them facing the same direction)

Interesting note: Star Thru is one of the few figures in modern
squares which by definition CANNOT be done by two facing people
dancing the same gender role.  Box the Gnat is another, and possibly
California Twirl depending on the exact definition.  The
gender-neutral replacements are Slide Thru and Partner Trade.




On 6/13/15, Erik Hoffman via Callers  wrote:
> I learned several subtle distinctions. Back in the 80s, when Larry
> Edelman was on staff at lots of our weeks and weekends, he'd drill us in
> these figures:
>
> These moves depend on where you're facing when you start, and which way
> you face when you end.
>
> Both Box the Gnat and Swat the Flea start facing the person you're doing
> it with, and have you change places and end facing them
> Box the Gnat starts facing the person you're boxing with, joining right
> hands turning the woman or raven under, and swapping places, ending
> facing each other and right hands are still joined.
> Swat the Flea is the same, except you have left hands joining left hands
>
> Both the California Twirl (also called the Frontier Twirl) starts
> standing next to the person you're doing it with, woman or raven on
> right, man or lark on left with near hands joined, and ends with the
> couple about facing. That it, it results in the pair turning as a couple.
> The Jersey or Nevada Twirl does the same, but with the man (or lark) on
> the right, woman (or raven) on the left.
>
> A star through starts with a pair facing each other with the man's
> (lark's) right hand joined with the woman's (raven's) left hand and ends
> with them swapping sides, but facing the same direction.
>
> There are several contras that use it. A part might be
>
> A1 facing your new neighbor: join inside hands (man's right, woman's
> left), balance, star through (end facing partner); Women chain
>
> I don't recall if there's a reverse star through: starting facing
> someone, joining hands -- Man's left, Woman's right, and "reverse star
> through (moon through?) -- ending side by side, woman on left, man on
> right.
>
> And I don't think I've ever learned one where you start side by side, do
> a swap to change, and end up facing each other
>
> ~erik hoffman
>  oakland, ca
>
> On 6/12/2015 9:17 PM, Jeff Kaufman via Callers wrote:
>>
>> Huh. If learned it as:
>>
>> G right in L left: California twirl
>> G right in L right: box the gnat
>> G left in L left: swat the flea
>> G left in L right: star through
>>
>> Or just tell people what hands to join and then "twirl to swap".
>>
>> On Jun 12, 2015 10:40 PM, "Charles M. Hannum via Callers"
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> Indeed, the only times I've seen “star thru” used in contra, it
>> was directly borrowed from MWSD.
>>
>> This is what Callerlab says.  Even in Tech Squares it's considered
>> incorrect to call it from other formations.
>>
>>
>> 24. Star Thru
>>
>> Starting formation: Facing Dancers (man facing woman)
>>
>> Command example: Star Thru
>>
>> Dance action: Man places his right hand against woman's left hand,
>> palm to palm with fingers up, to make an arch. As the dancers move
>> forward the woman does a one quarter (90 degrees) left face turn
>> under the arch, while the man does a one quarter (90 degrees) turn
>

Re: [Callers] Box - Swat - CA - Jersey/Nevada

[Erik Hoffman via Callers]

I learned several subtle distinctions. Back in the 80s, when Larry 
Edelman was on staff at lots of our weeks and weekends, he'd drill us in 
these figures:


These moves depend on where you're facing when you start, and which way 
you face when you end.


Both Box the Gnat and Swat the Flea start facing the person you're doing 
it with, and have you change places and end facing them
Box the Gnat starts facing the person you're boxing with, joining right 
hands turning the woman or raven under, and swapping places, ending 
facing each other and right hands are still joined.

Swat the Flea is the same, except you have left hands joining left hands

Both the California Twirl (also called the Frontier Twirl) starts 
standing next to the person you're doing it with, woman or raven on 
right, man or lark on left with near hands joined, and ends with the 
couple about facing. That it, it results in the pair turning as a couple.
The Jersey or Nevada Twirl does the same, but with the man (or lark) on 
the right, woman (or raven) on the left.


A star through starts with a pair facing each other with the man's 
(lark's) right hand joined with the woman's (raven's) left hand and ends 
with them swapping sides, but facing the same direction.


There are several contras that use it. A part might be

A1 facing your new neighbor: join inside hands (man's right, woman's 
left), balance, star through (end facing partner); Women chain


I don't recall if there's a reverse star through: starting facing 
someone, joining hands -- Man's left, Woman's right, and "reverse star 
through (moon through?) -- ending side by side, woman on left, man on right.


And I don't think I've ever learned one where you start side by side, do 
a swap to change, and end up facing each other


~erik hoffman
oakland, ca

On 6/12/2015 9:17 PM, Jeff Kaufman via Callers wrote:


Huh. If learned it as:

G right in L left: California twirl
G right in L right: box the gnat
G left in L left: swat the flea
G left in L right: star through

Or just tell people what hands to join and then "twirl to swap".

On Jun 12, 2015 10:40 PM, "Charles M. Hannum via Callers" 
> wrote:


Indeed, the only times I've seen “star thru” used in contra, it
was directly borrowed from MWSD.

This is what Callerlab says.  Even in Tech Squares it's considered
incorrect to call it from other formations.


24. Star Thru

Starting formation: Facing Dancers (man facing woman)

Command example: Star Thru

Dance action: Man places his right hand against woman's left hand,
palm to palm with fingers up, to make an arch. As the dancers move
forward the woman does a one quarter (90 degrees) left face turn
under the arch, while the man does a one quarter (90 degrees) turn
to the right moving past the woman.

Ending formation: Couple

Timing: 4

Styling: Hands are joined in raised position at approximately eye
level, palm to palm, with fingers pointed up to form an arch. The
arch will be offset to the man's right and woman's left. The man's
hand should be used to stabilize as the woman provides her own
momentum. As the call is completed, the hand grip should be
readjusted to couple handhold.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers
mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 12, 2015, Jeff Kaufman via Callers wrote:
>
> Nit: a "California twirl with other hands" is traditionally
called a "star
> through".

Really?  I haven't seen Star Thru in contra much; in MWSD, at
least, Star
Thru is normally done with partners facing each other, as
opposed to the
California Twirl with partners facing the same direction. 
What's being

asked for here is a sashayed California Twirl -- I don't think
I've ever
seen that before.  However, "Nevada Twirl" does have plenty of
hits when
I search, which suggests a clear provenance...

(You could argue that in a ring partners are sort-of facing
each other,
but I think that's a wasted argument when people already have
a clear
choreographic name for the concept.)
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>  <*>
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