Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[John Sweeney via Callers]

If "a picture is worth a thousand words" then a demo must be worth even
more.  Of course you should do demos if they help.

Demonstration is one of the oldest ways of teaching contra dances.  When
contra dances were first recorded in the 1650s, demonstration was generally
the ONLY way of teaching.  You made up contra lines, the music started, and
the top couple danced the dance without a call with the second couple while
everyone else watched the demonstration. In those dances the #1s were often
a lot more active than the #2s so the #2s just followed the #1s.  The #1s
moved down and danced the dance with the #3s while the #2s watched. The #1s
moved down and danced with the #4s while the #2s started dancing with the
#3s, and so on down the set.  There was no calling.  Everything was learnt
by watching the dancers.

(Just in case anyone thinks that they didn't contra dance in 1650: 
"The term "Country Dance" is the one invariably used in all books on dancing
that have been published in England during the last three centuries, while
all works issued in France within the same period employ the term Contra
Dance, or in French "Contre Danse". As the authority is equally good in both
cases, either term is therefore correct. The Country or Contra Dance has
been one of the most popular amusements in the British Isles, France, and
other continental countries from time immemorial."
Howe, 1858)

So, yes, demonstration is one of the key ways to teach a Ricochet Hey, and I
use it whenever necessary.

In response to some of the amusing comments about my insight that a Ricochet
Hey follows the same path as a Mad Robin:

- I would never teach it solely by saying that it is like a Mad Robin.

- If you know that most of the dancers do know a Mad Robin, then I believe
it could be useful.

- If you plan your programme for the session so that you do a dance with a
Mad Robin, then later on do a dance with a Ricochet Hey, then telling the
dancers to follow the same path could help.

 - Even if you don't want to have anything to do with Mad Robins, you can
still use the techniques for teaching a Mad Robin to teach a Ricochet Hey.
Many callers teach a Mad Robin by getting the dancers to do a Dosido and
then explain that they need to follow the same path while looking at their
opposite.  The same technique could be used for the Ricochet Hey.

Two of the main challenges I have found with the Ricochet Hey is
that people either cross the set (as they are fooled by the word "Hey" in
the name!) or they stop moving when they are at the back.  Building the
Ricochet Hey movement on top of a Dosido movement will help to reinforce
these two key elements of the move.

Of course you would have to be careful using the comparison of the
move to a Mad Robin if you were working with ECD dancers, since they might
know the original Mad Robin which is a different move! :-)

Happy dancing,
John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Donna Hunt via Callers]

 "A picture is worth 1,000 words" is so true.  Most dances are not so large 
that a caller cannot get on the floor (even without a headset) and teach a move 
that's new or teach a style point for an old favorite.  

Pick your "volunteers" carefully and be sure to publicly thank them for 
"volunteering".  

In my opinion, callers don't teach (well) enough and rely on more experienced 
dancers to "instruct" the new dancers as they dance along.  Personally I think 
that's "failing as a caller".  Words and demonstrations are powerful tools for 
teaching and should be used together as well as separately.



Donna Hunt











 Original message  

From: Tom Hinds via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>  

List-Post: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Date:06/19/2015 6:04 AM (GMT-06:00)  

To: Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com>  

Cc: callers@lists.sharedweight.net, John Sweeney <i...@contrafusion.co.uk>, 
callers-requ...@lists.sharedweight.net  

Subject: Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey  



I'm asking myself why not demo a ricochet?  In my mind there are some   
advantages to demonstrating a move instead of describing it (or doing   
both with a wireless mic). 

My experience is most contra callers are highly educated and have   
exceptional verbal skills.  Maybe some callers don't value a good   
demonstration.  Or is a demonstration too beneath some of us?  One of   
my calling students told me that I failed as a caller because I   
demonstrated a move. 

My own view is that watching and learning is an integral part of   
being human.  We could make a long list of older skills (like   
hunting) or newer ones like learning to play a musical instrument   
where watching and imitating is the key to learning. 

I recently took an informal workshop on dance history.  The teachers   
pointed out that when people watch something, appropriate synapses   
fire in preparation for performing a task.  This physiological   
response helps the person actually learn a task better. 

T 




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Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Amy Wimmer via Callers]

I concur: a demonstration is usually very helpful for my learning
something. I am very visual, and the use of too many words confuses
me. I have many "Ah HA!" moments while seeing a demonstration. Phooey
on those who poo-poo them.
-Amy in Seattle



> On Jun 19, 2015, at 4:04 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers 
>  wrote:
>
> I'm asking myself why not demo a ricochet?  In my mind there are some 
> advantages to demonstrating a move instead of describing it (or doing both 
> with a wireless mic).
>
> My experience is most contra callers are highly educated and have exceptional 
> verbal skills.  Maybe some callers don't value a good demonstration.  Or is a 
> demonstration too beneath some of us?  One of my calling students told me 
> that I failed as a caller because I demonstrated a move.
>
> My own view is that watching and learning is an integral part of being human. 
>  We could make a long list of older skills (like hunting) or newer ones like 
> learning to play a musical instrument where watching and imitating is the key 
> to learning.
>
> I recently took an informal workshop on dance history.  The teachers pointed 
> out that when people watch something, appropriate synapses fire in 
> preparation for performing a task.  This physiological response helps the 
> person actually learn a task better.
>
> T
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

On 6/19/2015 4:04 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers wrote:

I'm asking myself why not demo a ricochet?  In my mind there are some
advantages to demonstrating a move instead of describing it (or doing
both with a wireless mic).

My experience is most contra callers are highly educated and have
exceptional verbal skills.  Maybe some callers don't value a good
demonstration.  Or is a demonstration too beneath some of us?  One of my
calling students told me that I failed as a caller because I
demonstrated a move.


Why should you be limited to only one way of explaining a move? 
Demonstrations are incredibly powerful teaching tools.  I use demos a 
lot, mostly for moves that are a little out of the ordinary, or when 
there's a particular thing in the move that I want to stress.  And when 
the caller is demonstrating, say, a ricochet hey, they're also 
demonstrating a lot of other things in the process -- good eye contact, 
hand connections, tracking on the other dancers...


Kalia

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Neal Schlein via Callers]

Sure, there are lots of good teaching reasons to demonstrate a move--and we all 
use them during a lesson.  But there are also reasons not to, and that is one 
of the ways a workshop is different from a walk-through.  

Demos are perfect for workshops and OK for beginner lessons.  Workshops are 
usually smaller than a regular dance, with people who came explicitly to learn 
or practice a skill.  The size makes it easier for them all to see what you 
want them to, you are trying to teach specific things, and they don't mind 
being pulled out of formation for a teaching point.  

At a regular dance demos are usually not ideal on those fronts, along with a 
few others.  You can't control who or what people decide to watch and learn, 
and there is the potential for embarrassment of or errors among your 
demonstrating set.  If one of them doesn't know the figure, you will have to 
talk it through to the demonstrators in order to help them not teach the wrong 
thing; if they do know it, they may decide to show off and cause confusion. 

Still, saying it is "failure as a caller" to have used a demo is absurd; 
sometimes that is the best way to communicate complex info, or if people just 
aren't "getting it".  They just need to be used sparingly. 

Neal


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message From: Tom Hinds via Callers 
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> Date:06/19/2015  6:04 AM  
(GMT-06:00) To: Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com> 
Cc: callers@lists.sharedweight.net, John Sweeney 
<i...@contrafusion.co.uk>, callers-requ...@lists.sharedweight.net 
Subject: Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey 
I'm asking myself why not demo a ricochet?  In my mind there are some  
advantages to demonstrating a move instead of describing it (or doing  
both with a wireless mic).

My experience is most contra callers are highly educated and have  
exceptional verbal skills.  Maybe some callers don't value a good  
demonstration.  Or is a demonstration too beneath some of us?  One of  
my calling students told me that I failed as a caller because I  
demonstrated a move.

My own view is that watching and learning is an integral part of  
being human.  We could make a long list of older skills (like  
hunting) or newer ones like learning to play a musical instrument  
where watching and imitating is the key to learning.

I recently took an informal workshop on dance history.  The teachers  
pointed out that when people watch something, appropriate synapses  
fire in preparation for performing a task.  This physiological  
response helps the person actually learn a task better.

T




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Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
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Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Tom Hinds via Callers]

I'm asking myself why not demo a ricochet?  In my mind there are some  
advantages to demonstrating a move instead of describing it (or doing  
both with a wireless mic).


My experience is most contra callers are highly educated and have  
exceptional verbal skills.  Maybe some callers don't value a good  
demonstration.  Or is a demonstration too beneath some of us?  One of  
my calling students told me that I failed as a caller because I  
demonstrated a move.


My own view is that watching and learning is an integral part of  
being human.  We could make a long list of older skills (like  
hunting) or newer ones like learning to play a musical instrument  
where watching and imitating is the key to learning.


I recently took an informal workshop on dance history.  The teachers  
pointed out that when people watch something, appropriate synapses  
fire in preparation for performing a task.  This physiological  
response helps the person actually learn a task better.


T

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[James Saxe via Callers]

On Jun 18, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Dale Wilson via Callers 
 wrote:

> ... I [spend] a lot of time thinking about how to teach dance moves

So do I.  And I think Dale says some good stuff.

> during a workshop and during a walk-thru (they are different.)

[Dale, I'd be interested if you'd care to amplify on the remark
"they are different" and particularly if you have specific
examples of what you might do differently when presenting
the same figures in a "workshop" situation vs. a walk-through.]

> 
> A couple guidelines:
> 
> 1: Make it concrete.   "Gents look at each other."  That's concrete. Look at 
> the place your neighbor is standing -- that's concrete (ish)

Even more concrete would be "Gents *point* at each other".  If
they point instead of just looking, then

* you (the caller) can visually confirm that they have
  heard and understood your instructions;

* dancers who didn't catch your instruction might see what's
  happening around them and maybe figure out their part in it
  ("The people around me are doing something; I guess it's
  time to start paying attention.  Oh, someone's pointing at
  me; I guess I should point back."); and

* dancers who did catch your instructions can see whether
  there are other dancers nearby who aren't on track (e.g.,
  someone who's woolgathering instead of pointing, or
  someone who's pointing in the wrote direction) and perhaps
  manage to wave at them and get their attention.

[Alas, the idea of "point at  and *keep
pointing* so that the caller and your fellow dancers can see"
can be a difficult sell to some dancers.  They seem to think
that it's enough that they have mentally identified the
designated person and to see no value in giving a visual
indication of that fact.  We've all seen the similar situation
where some dancers seem satisfied with mentally identifying
their own minor set and don't bother to take and hold hands
four for the benefit of those below them.]

> Imagine a slice of pizza.  Nope.

Despite having heard the pizza slice analogy recommended by a
caller whose teaching I generally admire highly, I nonetheless
share Dale's skepticism.  Dancers who already understand how
to do a ricochet hey may recognize that their path vaguely
resembles the perimeter of a giant pizza slice.  But the ones
who need help are the ones who don't already understand--the
ones who want to "ricochet" directly back on the same path they
came in on or who want to "ricochet" their way to the far side
of the set.  And I think those people will have no idea what
"pizza slice" the caller is talking about.

Possibly if you do a demo, and if you can get all the people
near the demo set to hunker down or back away so that everybody
in the room has a 100% unobstructed view of the action, and if
you point at the floor and describe the edges of the imaginary
pizza slice as you walk them, maybe that will put the idea
across to the people who didn't already get it.  (Or maybe not.)
But if you just stand on the stage and tell people to imagine a
pizza slice, I'm not convinced it will do much to help the
dancers who need help most.

> 
> 3) Try to serve up the teaching in bite-sized chunks (ooh--an analogy).

Yup.  In Dale's previous message, he wrote:

> Gents look at each other.  Now look at your neighbor.   When I say 'GO' (not 
> now) you will meet
[that is, you will meet the other gent, not your neighbor]
> in the center and push back to your neighbor's place.

For new dancers, and even for some experienced dancers learning
a new figure, the description above is already approaching the
limit of how much you can reasonably ask them to visualize ahead
of time without moving.  In this case, I don't see an easy way to
ask for much less visualization into the future, but it's a good
thing not to be asking for more.

The total amount of action people can hold in their heads goes up
if the action can be grouped into familiar chunks.  Experienced
dancers who already understand heys and ricochets could likely
cope with being told something like

When I say 'GO' (not now) men will start a hey for four
by left shoulder, but when the men meet again in the center,
they'll ricochet and swing their neighbors.

They might not visualize where everybody would end up as a result
of those actions, but they'd understand enough so that you could
say "GO" and then prompt them through the actions.  If you tried
having a typical group of brand new dancers stand and listen
while you described the same action by enumerating all the little
pieces of the hey, they'd of course be hopelessly overloaded.

--Jim

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, John Sweeney via Callers wrote:
>
> I just realised that a Ricochet Hey is actually a Mad Robin in which the
> people passing through the middle interact with each other.
> 
> So, next time I teach it I am going to try getting the dancers to do a Mad
> Robin first then get them to change their path from a rectangle to a pizza
> slice and touch hands in the middle.
> 
> Does that make sense?

After reading other comments: some people do Mad Robin like a Ricochet
Hey anyway, so if you really want to use that as an example (and assuming
the dancers already know Mad Robin, which is the only time it makes sense
as a building block), you need to emphasize that people should do a
normal Mad Robin.  ;-)
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Dale Wilson via Callers]

Replace "I spending" with "I spend"
Guideline 6: proofread your messages before you send them.

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Dale Wilson  wrote:

> And since I'm on the subject.  I spending a lot of time thinking about how
> to teach dance moves during a workshop and during a walk-thru (they are
> different.)
>
> A couple guidelines:
>
> 1: Make it concrete.   "Gents look at each other."  That's concrete. Look
> at the place your neighbor is standing -- that's concrete (ish) Imagine a
> slice of pizza.  Nope.
> 2) Avoid analogies like the plague (you are thinking of a swarm of
> locusts, but I meant a rat-borne bacterial infection)   Ricochet hey is
> just like a slice of pizza as long as the pizza is six feet in diameter and
> sliced in fourths rather than sixths or eights.
> 3) Try to serve up the teaching in bite-sized chunks (ooh--an analogy).
> Teach half a hey, not a full hey, first, then put two of them together once
> they've made it through the simpler version.
> 4) If you've got an unusual mental model of a particular move that really
> helps you get the feel for it --- FORGET IT!   I once watched a caller try
> to teach a swing by explaining that it's playing air-guitar while riding a
> skateboard [I am not making this up!]  Needless to say the new dancers were
> confused.
> 5) Don't teach advanced techniques to new dancers.  Forget the buzz step.
> Forget the twirls. Teach the simplest moves that get the dancer from point
> A to point B facing the correct direction.   Other dancers will take care
> of adding the refinements (give's them a chance to show off (er... I mean
> be helpful))
>
> Dale
> ​
>



-- 
Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
. Turn Information into
Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
into Love .

Re: [Callers] How to Describe a Ricochet Hey

[Dale Wilson via Callers]

And since I'm on the subject.  I spending a lot of time thinking about how
to teach dance moves during a workshop and during a walk-thru (they are
different.)

A couple guidelines:

1: Make it concrete.   "Gents look at each other."  That's concrete. Look
at the place your neighbor is standing -- that's concrete (ish) Imagine a
slice of pizza.  Nope.
2) Avoid analogies like the plague (you are thinking of a swarm of locusts,
but I meant a rat-borne bacterial infection)   Ricochet hey is just like a
slice of pizza as long as the pizza is six feet in diameter and sliced in
fourths rather than sixths or eights.
3) Try to serve up the teaching in bite-sized chunks (ooh--an analogy).
Teach half a hey, not a full hey, first, then put two of them together once
they've made it through the simpler version.
4) If you've got an unusual mental model of a particular move that really
helps you get the feel for it --- FORGET IT!   I once watched a caller try
to teach a swing by explaining that it's playing air-guitar while riding a
skateboard [I am not making this up!]  Needless to say the new dancers were
confused.
5) Don't teach advanced techniques to new dancers.  Forget the buzz step.
Forget the twirls. Teach the simplest moves that get the dancer from point
A to point B facing the correct direction.   Other dancers will take care
of adding the refinements (give's them a chance to show off (er... I mean
be helpful))

Dale
​