Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Bree Kalb via Callers]

I don’t have any additional suggestions but want to thank Maia for the
original post and appreciate all the replies. I think many of us identify
and it reassures me that I’m not the only one who has had to figure out how
to forgive my errors. I’ve found it especially helpful to notice the
mistakes made by well respected callers and how un-flustered they seem to
be by them.

>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
> call...@listssharedweight.net > wrote:
>
>> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
>> evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
>> teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
>> dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
>> and goodwill at the end of the evening.
>>
>> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
>> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
>> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Maia
>>
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>>
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Mary Collins via Callers]

First LET me say thanks to all who posted in this thread. There are many
useful tips here, some new and different things to look at, digest and try,
some are repeats of advice received over the years and good reminders.

I believe it was Lisa G. (or maybe it was David K. or both) who said get a
trusted, strong dancer friend to talk about your evening. I find that
having that person as a travelling companion helps relax me prior to
calling as well as help in dissecting the evening after. This person does
this in a non judgemental way and is supportive and encouraging while
giving me a dancer's perspective.

Recently I had a dance near the end of the evening that did not work too
well and substituted a somewhat easier dance as the final dance of the
evening, that dance failed in places as well. Aaarrr...the
supportive comments of dancers, the band and the organizers certainly
helped this very non-perfect perfectionist to leave feeling better about
the end of a mostly wonderful evening. Getting home and finding an
invitation to rebook was also a great balm for my self-flagellation.

As an imperfect perfectionist, calling has helped me come to terms with
thatthat nothing is perfect, and it's ok to not be. Doing so with humor
and shouldering the blame is certainly the way to go. Of all the things
I've done (ask me for my whole resume) calling has been and continues to be
the most humbling, uplifting, challenging and rewarding endeavor yet.

Thank you all for your continued loving support.

Mary Collins


On Nov 7, 2017 10:28 AM, "Martha Wild via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

And about switching to another dance when there is trouble with one:

Sometimes, this is necessary. Sometimes, you have misjudged the difficulty
level of the dance for the dancers, or the dance doesn’t work as written
down (oops). Hopefully you notice that before teaching or during, but
things happen.  However, one thing I have seen and felt as a dancer is that
if a dance just needs one more walkthrough to orient people in the move
that is messing them up, and then the dancers can do it (even if it starts
rocky), they are so happy at the end that they met the challenge and did
it. So if I feel that I can salvage the dance, I don’t toss it for an
easier one, because the reward for the dancers is high.

Martha

On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

I have learned that owning my mistakes publicly is an important part of
moving forward.  Sometimes I use humor to soften the blow.  Another very
important thing I have learned is to make the next dance a great dance.
Something fun, with guaranteed success.  Our mistakes bother us more that
they bother most dancers.

My belief is that we are hired to help the dancers have a good time.  One
or two little mistakes will not destroy our efforts, and even a major
mistake need not be taken out of the context of an overall successful
evening.  (BTW, these are truths that I am still learning)

Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT


On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
call...@listssharedweight.net > wrote:

> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
> evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
> teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
> dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
> and goodwill at the end of the evening.
>
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Martha Wild via Callers]

And about switching to another dance when there is trouble with one:

Sometimes, this is necessary. Sometimes, you have misjudged the difficulty 
level of the dance for the dancers, or the dance doesn’t work as written down 
(oops). Hopefully you notice that before teaching or during, but things happen. 
 However, one thing I have seen and felt as a dancer is that if a dance just 
needs one more walkthrough to orient people in the move that is messing them 
up, and then the dancers can do it (even if it starts rocky), they are so happy 
at the end that they met the challenge and did it. So if I feel that I can 
salvage the dance, I don’t toss it for an easier one, because the reward for 
the dancers is high.

Martha

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have learned that owning my mistakes publicly is an important part of 
> moving forward.  Sometimes I use humor to soften the blow.  Another very 
> important thing I have learned is to make the next dance a great dance.  
> Something fun, with guaranteed success.  Our mistakes bother us more that 
> they bother most dancers.  
> 
> My belief is that we are hired to help the dancers have a good time.  One or 
> two little mistakes will not destroy our efforts, and even a major mistake 
> need not be taken out of the context of an overall successful evening.  (BTW, 
> these are truths that I am still learning)
> 
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers 
> > wrote:
> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an evening 
> — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t teach clearly 
> enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the dancers adjusted 
> and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust and goodwill at the 
> end of the evening.
> 
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned the 
> lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop 
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
> 
> Cheers,
> Maia
> 
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Martha Wild via Callers]

Yeah - there’s the dancer response I just commented on in my previous comment - 
some people think it’s fun when it gets chaotic!
 
Martha

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:28 AM, John W Gintell via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is what is important - it is why we go to dances.
> 
> "the dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s 
> trust and goodwill at the end of the evening”
> 
> And I think it is fun as a dancer to occasionally have to cope with messed-up 
> dancing due to dancers, callers, or bands mistakes or  miscues.
> 
> 
>> On Nov 6, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an evening 
>> — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t teach 
>> clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the dancers 
>> adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust and 
>> goodwill at the end of the evening.
>> 
>> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned 
>> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop 
>> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Maia
>> ___
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Martha Wild via Callers]

Oh, yeah, that obsessing over the two things that went wrong. It will get 
better. A few things to take notice of: you can’t please all of the people all 
of the time. Even if you call an evening with no obvious errors, someone will 
come up and say they didn’t like a particular dance because it had a men’s 
swing (or some other figure). And someone else will come up and say they 
particularly liked that dance because it had a men’s swing (or that other 
figure) (I’ve had this happen). One person will come up and say they love it 
when things get chaotic (I’ve had this happen). When I’ve played piano, after a 
night when a few particularly egregious chords crept into my playing and I felt 
like it was the worst night I’d played in a long time, one dancer came up and 
gushed how we sounded fantastic that night. Oh well. So after a while you 
realize that if everyone is going home reasonably happy, that’s the best you 
can hope for. Just like life, we aren’t perfect. And then try saying this to 
yourself “First World Problem!” 
Martha

> On Nov 6, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Charles via Callers 
> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> 
> Great topic, Maia - 
> 
> I'm reminded of what a college environmental science professor once said: 
> "The solution to pollution is dilution." In terms of your question, I find 
> one solution is to call more gigs; that way, there is less time to brood over 
> mistakes, and the errors become less noticeable! 
> 
> That in addition to all of the other tips that others have already provided 
> might provide some comfort...
> 
> From: Callers <callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net 
> <mailto:callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net>> on behalf of Maia McCormick 
> via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net 
> <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:10 PM
> To: callers@lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> Subject: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation
>  
> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an evening 
> — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t teach clearly 
> enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the dancers adjusted 
> and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust and goodwill at the 
> end of the evening.
> 
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned the 
> lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop 
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
> 
> Cheers,
> Maia
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[David Chandler via Callers]

​As you and others have suggested, there are two parts to one's response -
what you say to yourself, and what you say to the dancers. I think the
latter is more important, and it is of course affected by what you say to
yourself. Being able to respond humorously, recognizing that like everyone
else you make mistakes, apologize for them and then move on is very useful.
What has bugged me most about callers are those who get angry at the
dancers (some of whom may be slow to understand the nuances of what a
caller says, although usually it goes back to the caller's instructions) or
visibly at themselves. Who wants to spend time with a person who is
preoccupied with being angry at you or themselves for being human?

To the extent possible it can be useful to switch into a problem-solving
focus. During the dance you want to figure out quickly what went wrong
and/or what can be done to salvage it - make a correction, stop and start
over, switch to a different dance... After the dance is over there is time
for the post mortem, which seems to be what you are concerned about - what
did I do wrong, what could I have done differently? Focusing on how
terrible and inept you are takes away from problem-solving - you can't
change what has already happened. Of course I admit that this is easier as
one gets older (and has more mistakes to put into perspective). If it helps
perhaps you could keep a catalog of the mistakes made by all the callers
you respect. You're in good company!

David​


On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
> evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
> teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
> dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
> and goodwill at the end of the evening.
>
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[John W Gintell via Callers]

This is what is important - it is why we go to dances.

"the dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust 
and goodwill at the end of the evening”

And I think it is fun as a dancer to occasionally have to cope with messed-up 
dancing due to dancers, callers, or bands mistakes or  miscues.


> On Nov 6, 2017, at 11:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an evening 
> — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t teach clearly 
> enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the dancers adjusted 
> and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust and goodwill at the 
> end of the evening.
> 
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned the 
> lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop 
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
> 
> Cheers,
> Maia
> ___

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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Rich Sbardella via Callers]

I have learned that owning my mistakes publicly is an important part of
moving forward.  Sometimes I use humor to soften the blow.  Another very
important thing I have learned is to make the next dance a great dance.
Something fun, with guaranteed success.  Our mistakes bother us more that
they bother most dancers.

My belief is that we are hired to help the dancers have a good time.  One
or two little mistakes will not destroy our efforts, and even a major
mistake need not be taken out of the context of an overall successful
evening.  (BTW, these are truths that I am still learning)

Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT


On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
> evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
> teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
> dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
> and goodwill at the end of the evening.
>
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Charles via Callers]

Great topic, Maia -

I'm reminded of what a college environmental science professor once said: "The 
solution to pollution is dilution." In terms of your question, I find one 
solution is to call more gigs; that way, there is less time to brood over 
mistakes, and the errors become less noticeable!

That in addition to all of the other tips that others have already provided 
might provide some comfort...


From: Callers <callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Maia 
McCormick via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:10 PM
To: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an evening — 
the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t teach clearly 
enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the dancers adjusted and 
all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust and goodwill at the end 
of the evening.

Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned the 
lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop 
self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!

Cheers,
Maia
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Jerome Grisanti via Callers]

Maia,

I agree with what others have said about attitude being the most important
tool, and to be gentle with yourself.

I will sometimes tell the beginners lesson that they shouldn't get caught
up on making mistakes, we all make mistakes, in fact tonight I will make a
mistake to increase their comfort level, if it helps. And although I don't
TRY to make a mistake, mistakes happen.

Most recently, I said "ladies chain" instead of "ladies allemande" in a
walkthru. "Oops," I said, "I meant allemande. I made that mistake
intentionally to show that it's still okay even if you do something you
didn't initially intend to do." We continued the walkthru, the dance worked
fine, and the light touch signaled not only that "it's okay" but also "be
gentle with each other."

On those rare nights when all the stars align in my performance, we don't
get those learning moments on the floor. There are good possible outcomes
in most every scenario, as long as there's good dancing.

Even when things beyond my control go wrong, I've learned to redirect. For
example, if the sound goes wonky, when the sound is restored it's a good
idea to acknowledge how much the sound tech works behind the scenes to make
most evenings so seamless. Let's thank him/her for all they do. (Okay, I
stole this from another caller, but it's come in handy more than once).

--Jerome

Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
> evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
> teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
> dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
> and goodwill at the end of the evening.
>
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> ___
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Kelsey Hartman via Callers]

Seth Tapfer said something in a callers' workshop once that has become my
"go to" for this sort of issue. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how the
caller reacts/responds (do it with a sense of humor and NEVER blame the
dancers) that makes all the difference in the world.

I just came off a dance weekend where one of the callers repeatedly made
mistakes, which were made because there wasn't enough care or thought
involved and was very arrogant with not wanting to adapt to changing
language (using something other than the "g" word as asked) and I, as a
dancer, am still angry and upset. I know that I will never go to a weekend
or evening dance when that caller is listed again. If that caller had
approached it all very differently, I would have been on their side in
spite of the mistakes.



On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Perry Shafran via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Maia,
>
> I used to self-flagellate all the time when I had average gigs or made a
> lot of mistakes during the evening that I could have done better.  I know
> that sometimes it seems that dancers give you the evil eye after you've
> made a mistake or two, and it can feel uncomfortable.
>
> I got some advice from an organizer that really noticed how I was taking
> my own self flagellation - I should go easy on myself.  Most dancers really
> appreciate what callers do (knowing that many of them just don't want to
> call because they'd rather be dancing), and probably understand that it's
> probably not easy to put yourself up there.
>
> So now when I do make a mistake, notice the dancers aren't quite getting
> it or something occurs a little rough, I just take that as a learning
> experience and hope not to make that mistake the next time.  It's a mental
> exercise to be sure, but I'd recommend trying the same thing at a future
> dance, except consciously be aware of what happened last time and make
> efforts to correct that.  Once it works better a second time, you'll forget
> that you made a mistake at en earlier dance and chalk that up to a bad
> evening.  We all have them from time to time.
>
> Perry
>
>
> --
> *From:* Maia McCormick via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *To:* "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 6, 2017 11:10 AM
> *Subject:* [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation
>
> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
> evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
> teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
> dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
> and goodwill at the end of the evening.
>
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
> ___
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>


-- 
Keep Dancing!
Kelsey Hartman
(510) 816-7225
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Claire Baffaut via Callers]

Ah yes!
Indeed it is a familiar feeling. So this pep talk is as much to myself as
it is to you.

- Live performance means that there will be mistakes.
- It is not possible to learn anything without making mistakes. If you are
not making any, you're not learning.
- Identify a few things that could be done differently (just a few as you
cannot fix everything at once).
- Ask for gentle, objective feedback or suggestions.
- Once you've done these last two, forgive yourself. You'll do better next
time.
- Hopefully, you can look forward the next gig and I wish you that it goes
well and make you feel good.

Cheers,

Claire

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
> evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
> teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
> dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
> and goodwill at the end of the evening.
>
> Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
> the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
> self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
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>
>


-- 
*Claire*
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Re: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Perry Shafran via Callers]

Maia,
I used to self-flagellate all the time when I had average gigs or made a lot of 
mistakes during the evening that I could have done better.  I know that 
sometimes it seems that dancers give you the evil eye after you've made a 
mistake or two, and it can feel uncomfortable.  

I got some advice from an organizer that really noticed how I was taking my own 
self flagellation - I should go easy on myself.  Most dancers really appreciate 
what callers do (knowing that many of them just don't want to call because 
they'd rather be dancing), and probably understand that it's probably not easy 
to put yourself up there.  

So now when I do make a mistake, notice the dancers aren't quite getting it or 
something occurs a little rough, I just take that as a learning experience and 
hope not to make that mistake the next time.  It's a mental exercise to be 
sure, but I'd recommend trying the same thing at a future dance, except 
consciously be aware of what happened last time and make efforts to correct 
that.  Once it works better a second time, you'll forget that you made a 
mistake at en earlier dance and chalk that up to a bad evening.  We all have 
them from time to time.
Perry


  From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
 To: "callers@lists.sharedweight.net" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> 
 Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 11:10 AM
 Subject: [Callers] Moving past self-flagellation
   
So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an evening — 
the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t teach clearly 
enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the dancers adjusted and 
all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust and goodwill at the end 
of the evening.
Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned the 
lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop 
self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!
Cheers,Maia___
List Name:  Callers mailing list
List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/


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[Callers] Moving past self-flagellation

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

So after a gig, I find myself haunted by one or two missteps from an
evening — the rolling start that was a little muddy, the thing I didn’t
teach clearly enough so the dancers never quite got it — even though the
dancers adjusted and all had a good time, and I still had the hall’s trust
and goodwill at the end of the evening.

Is this a familiar experience for anyone? Assuming you’ve already learned
the lesson to be learned there, how do you move past it and stop
self-flagellating?Would love to hear some people’s thoughts!

Cheers,
Maia
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