Re: [Callers] ideal contra tunes

[Michael Barraclough]

No-one seems to have mentioned that the tempo should be appropriate for
the situation. 

How about considering some of the following:

Temperature
Humidity
Presence or absence of air conditioning
Floor surface
Number of beginners
Where the dance is in the program and what went before and what is
coming next

At our local dance (Glen Echo) I have seen new dancers leave in their
droves because the band was playing 120-124bpm for the 1st few dances
(and the caller didn't change this).  They were exhausted!

Winter speed here is typically 118-120 but in the summer 116 is much
more comfortable.

If it is taking longer than you would expect for the line to reform
(people are drinking, changing T-shirts, resting etc) then consider that
the pace (or the length) of the last dance was too much.

Michael Barraclough
www.michaelbarraclough.com





On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 09:00 -0700, Kathryn Bowman wrote:
> Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to play quite a bit lower
> than 120.  We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
> the dancers and callers.  Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
> eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
> experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines.  I
> generally like about 114 if its not too hot.  Some callers ask us to call
> as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.
> 
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill  > wrote:
> 
> > 120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one of my best dance
> > experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
> > sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
> > was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
> > based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
> > motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
> > the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
> >
> > And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what is
> > ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
> > great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a tune
> > on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
> > fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is up
> > to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
> > sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
> > confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to dance.
> > Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.
> >
> > tavi
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > call...@sharedweight.net
> > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
> >
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

Re: [Callers] ideal contra tunes

[George Mercer]

My first real concentrated dance experiences were in the old time square
dance community where tunes tend to be played much faster.  As a result, I
generally don't mind fast playing and tend to get annoyed with some of the
more laid back contra tunes that are often well below 118...the 110 is not
unheard of but unless you're playing for a wedding or bar/bat mitzvah or
some other one time dance or a senior center or children's dance, it's too
slow for me.  I always recommend old dance tunes for a beginning fiddler.
They grew up with the dance and tend to be the perfect complement.  I'm not
saying limit to that.  There are too many good newer tunes to even suggest
that, but the old tunes are a good place to start.  As a dancer, I have two
general requirements: real tunes (usually with distinct A and B parts) that
tell my body where it is in the dance (old time square dances are often an
exception to this, because they often don't depend on tune structure); and
a solid, hard core rhythm that tells my feet where they should be.  I don't
mind medleys and find they often enhance the dance experience, but don't
find them necessary.  I have little use for "contra band tricks" used to
generate interest, to entertain the band or to demonstrate how clever the
band is.  Far, far too many musicians tend to pick up the "tricks" before
they really master the dance tunes, in much the same way far, far too many
dancers tend to pick up the flourishes before they learn how to do the
actual dance moves.  Finally, I'd tell any would be dance musicians to try
dancing and get the feel for what the music does for the dancers and the
dance; and, if at all possible, keep an eye on the dancers.  You'll see how
your music is doing.

Thanks, George

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Kathryn Bowman
wrote:

> Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to play quite a bit lower
> than 120.  We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
> the dancers and callers.  Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
> eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
> experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines.  I
> generally like about 114 if its not too hot.  Some callers ask us to call
> as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill <
> melodiouswoodch...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > 120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one of my best dance
> > experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
> > sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
> > was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
> > based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
> > motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
> > the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
> >
> > And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what
> is
> > ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
> > great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a
> tune
> > on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
> > fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is
> up
> > to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
> > sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
> > confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to
> dance.
> > Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.
> >
> > tavi
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > call...@sharedweight.net
> > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
> >
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] ideal contra tunes

[Charles Hannum]

There really is no ideal tempo for contra dance.  It depends on the
complexity and flow of the dance, and what the dancers are looking
for.  Many dancers enjoy getting sweaty to fast tunes as high as 130 BPM.
There may be some age correlation here, because the younger crowd is more
likely to be familiar with techno, ska, and other music forms that tend to
have high BPM.  Also, the wider use of dance-based fitness programs this
century is likely changing expectations, as more people think of it as a
fitness program in addition to a social venue.

I specifically caution you on Ralph's “least energy expended” theory
because it's demonstrably wrong for many venues—if dancers wanted to expend
the least energy, you wouldn't see them doing a zillion flourishes.  (Also,
the energy expenditure vs. BPM hasn't actually been studied.)

As a musician, the “draggy” feel of the 110 tempo may be related to the
music you're playing.  You might find that expanding your repertoire solves
this problem for you.


On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Kathryn Bowman
wrote:

> Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to play quite a bit lower
> than 120.  We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
> the dancers and callers.  Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
> eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
> experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines.  I
> generally like about 114 if its not too hot.  Some callers ask us to call
> as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill <
> melodiouswoodch...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > 120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one of my best dance
> > experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
> > sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
> > was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
> > based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
> > motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
> > the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
> >
> > And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what
> is
> > ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
> > great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a
> tune
> > on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
> > fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is
> up
> > to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
> > sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
> > confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to
> dance.
> > Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.
> >
> > tavi
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > call...@sharedweight.net
> > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
> >
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] ideal contra tunes

[Kathryn Bowman]

Out in the Pacific northwest, we generally tend to play quite a bit lower
than 120.  We get complaints about 118 that we are playing too fast from
the dancers and callers.  Kind of depends on the dance, how many four or
eight count moves, how far apart the lines are if its a big hall, the
experience of the dancer, some of the moves like hays and wavey lines.  I
generally like about 114 if its not too hot.  Some callers ask us to call
as slow at 110 which feels pretty draggy to me.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, tavi merrill  wrote:

> 120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one of my best dance
> experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
> sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
> was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
> based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
> motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
> the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...
>
> And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what is
> ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
> great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a tune
> on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
> fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is up
> to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
> sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
> confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to dance.
> Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.
>
> tavi
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] ideal contra tunes

[tavi merrill]

120 bpm is generally considered normal - but one of my best dance
experiences ever, with the band "Old Grey Goose" left me both feeling
sublime, and realizing their tempos were on average a little lower than i
was used to. Ralph Sweet has a great thought about tempo - the idea that,
based on the length of the average human leg, there is a frequency of
motion at which the least force is expended to set it swinging (imagining
the dancer's leg as a pendulum)...

And i suppose that, like everything about dance music and calling, what is
ideal really depends upon the dancers present. Suffice it to say i've had
great experiences as a dancer around 118, but when i'm really "into" a tune
on the fiddle, it's easy to warp up to 126 without realizing it. As a
fiddler new to playing for dancers, if your technique on notey reels is up
to snuff, it's easy to get carried away and confuse "energy" with speed -
sometimes the hardest thing is slowing down. On the dance floor that
confusion never happens, fast is just fast... and less enjoyable to dance.
Hence my making a somewhat conservative suggestion.

tavi

Re: [Callers] Ideal contra tunes

[Dugan Murphy]

Bob mentioned tempo as an important element of making a tune and how it is
played appropriate for contra.  I started a discussion on this listserv on
the topic of tempo back in March and from that I got the impression that
120 beats per minute is pretty ideal.

For more details from this discussion, follow this link and click on the
"Next message" link at the bottom of the page to continue:
http://www.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers/2012-March/004507.html.
People shared some really interesting information.

-- 
Dugan Murphy
Portland, Maine
http://caller.duganmurphy.com


List-Post: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:32:23 -0600
> From: Leslie Gotfrit 
> To: call...@sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Ideal contra tunes
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> My teen daughter plays in a performing fiddle group. I sometimes call
> family dances using the group. The director asked me 1. to suggest some
> tunes she could teach the group that would be ideal for contras 2. what
> makes a tune or medley of tunes work well for contras. (There are lots in
> their repertoire that seems to work for "Southern" squares or big circle
> dances).  Besides being square, 32 bar tunes with A parts distinguishable
> from B,  what makes a great contra tune? I like dancing to medleys where
> the second tune picks up the energy: how is that accomplished? Can anyone
> suggest a couple of tunes and (perhaps which recording of it) that are
> essential to a contra music repertoire?
>
> Thanks very much to those who responded to my question about determining
> space for contra dancing. It was incredibly helpful and I learned something
> new from each response.
>

Re: [Callers] Ideal contra tunes

[tavi merrill]

Leslie,

Dave Casserly hit on some really great points. To add,

- One thing that separates contra repertoire from the repertoire for
squares (etc) is the utility of jigs to provide a feeling of variety
between quite similar dances.

- A cheap trick that works well going from a first tune to a second is
changing tonalities from the major key to a related mode with same or
similar key signature, for example D major into E dorian mode such as
"Whiskey Before Breakfast" into "Cooley's Reel", or from a major to the
relative minor. The reverse of such changes can also create an energetic
burst, though a change of key signatures may be necessary to achieve that
effect when going from a mode (other than the relative minor) to major.

- If the band can execute them solidly, jig to reel transitions add a
MASSIVE energy burst. A jig-reel transition getting a lot of use around
Boston right now is "Seanamhac Tube Station" into "Devil in the Strawstack"
- tunes with similar melodic structures in the same key, but when paired
with an a-part wave balance it's like the dancers are on fire when they
hear that change.

Another tunebook which may be of value is "The New England Fiddler's
Repertoire" by Randy Miller.

Tempo is crucial. As a fiddler i find that it's often easy to play too fast
without realizing it, while as a dancer i find tempos around 118 (even for
reels!) to be the most satisfying.

Besides dancing to really great bands, it might help the fiddle-group
leader to listen to some popular contradance bands and pick up on what they
do. Off the top of my head a few favorites that illustrate great tune
changes are Great Bear Trio, Crowfoot, Wild Asparagus, Airdance, and Wake
the Neighbors (the band Ed Howe and John Cote anchored before they became
Perpetual eMotion).

Give the fiddlers my regards!

tavi merrill

Re: [Callers] Ideal contra tunes

[Dave Casserly]

Leslie,

What skill level is the group?  Can they play notey reels up to tempo?  I
would be happy to suggest a dozen or so tunes if I know what they'd be able
to handle.

As far as medleys go, that's an entire other can of worms.  There are lots
of ways to pick up energy between one tune and the next in a medley.  Some
possibilities:

- Have the first tune be less notey, and the second more complex; marches
to reels work well for this.  For instance, try something like Coleman's
March into the Merry Blacksmith
- Have the second tune be in a higher key; going from G to A, for instance,
can sound like an energy boost
- Go from a minor tune to a major one (like A minor to A major),
particularly if the minor tune is groovier and the major tune is driving.
 For instance, try Brenda Stubbert's into Road to Errogie

Other than just the tunes, there are way too many ways to list for bands to
raise the energy when changing tunes regardless of which tunes they're
using.  The band can end one tune very abruptly, with a break, then start
the next all together.  Or they could end one tune with just melody
playing, and at the start of the next tune, have the whole band come in.
 Or many other possibilities.

-Dave


On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Leslie Gotfrit  wrote:

> My teen daughter plays in a performing fiddle group. I sometimes call
> family dances using the group. The director asked me 1. to suggest some
> tunes she could teach the group that would be ideal for contras 2. what
> makes a tune or medley of tunes work well for contras. (There are lots in
> their repertoire that seems to work for "Southern" squares or big circle
> dances).  Besides being square, 32 bar tunes with A parts distinguishable
> from B,  what makes a great contra tune? I like dancing to medleys where
> the second tune picks up the energy: how is that accomplished? Can anyone
> suggest a couple of tunes and (perhaps which recording of it) that are
> essential to a contra music repertoire?
>
> Thanks very much to those who responded to my question about determining
> space for contra dancing. It was incredibly helpful and I learned something
> new from each response.
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>



-- 
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761

Re: [Callers] Ideal contra tunes

[Bob Green]

Tempo, tempo, tempooh, and did I mention tempo? I'll let the musicians
respond with specific tune suggestions, because I have no idea which tunes
are easier or harder to play, but as a caller and a dancer, one of the
things that makes a tune or a medley work is being able to play it at the
right speed for the dance that is being called and for the crowd that is
dancing it. Part of it is also having a repertoire of tunes to match the
mood of a specific dance - a very flowing to tune to match a flowing dance,
or an accented tune to highlight balances and long line. A part of what
makes a tune work well is how it fits that particular dance.

Great project!

Bob

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Leslie Gotfrit  wrote:

> My teen daughter plays in a performing fiddle group. I sometimes call
> family dances using the group. The director asked me 1. to suggest some
> tunes she could teach the group that would be ideal for contras 2. what
> makes a tune or medley of tunes work well for contras. (There are lots in
> their repertoire that seems to work for "Southern" squares or big circle
> dances).  Besides being square, 32 bar tunes with A parts distinguishable
> from B,  what makes a great contra tune? I like dancing to medleys where
> the second tune picks up the energy: how is that accomplished? Can anyone
> suggest a couple of tunes and (perhaps which recording of it) that are
> essential to a contra music repertoire?
>
> Thanks very much to those who responded to my question about determining
> space for contra dancing. It was incredibly helpful and I learned something
> new from each response.
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] Ideal contra tunes

[Richard Hart]

Two sources of contra dance tunes that many dance musician should have
are probably these:

1. The Portland collection: http://www.theportlandcollection.com/

And, 2. Bob McQuillen's tune books: http://www.greatmeadowmusic.com/teach.html

Rich Hart.

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Leslie Gotfrit  wrote:
> My teen daughter plays in a performing fiddle group. I sometimes call family 
> dances using the group. The director asked me 1. to suggest some tunes she 
> could teach the group that would be ideal for contras 2. what makes a tune or 
> medley of tunes work well for contras. (There are lots in their repertoire 
> that seems to work for "Southern" squares or big circle dances).  Besides 
> being square, 32 bar tunes with A parts distinguishable from B,  what makes a 
> great contra tune? I like dancing to medleys where the second tune picks up 
> the energy: how is that accomplished? Can anyone suggest a couple of tunes 
> and (perhaps which recording of it) that are essential to a contra music 
> repertoire?
>
> Thanks very much to those who responded to my question about determining 
> space for contra dancing. It was incredibly helpful and I learned something 
> new from each response.
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers