[Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[Aristotle Pagaltzis]

* Lee Aylward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-10-03 00:40]:
> Assuming that your shared host has all of the required modules
> installed you can use the .cgi script found in the /scripts
> directory of your catalyst application.

That’s going to be extraordinarily slow.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // 

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[Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[Aristotle Pagaltzis]

* Anton Katsarov  [2009-02-05 17:50]:
> I can also confess that the Internet connection in my town is
> not so good.

If you’re on a modem then 5 seconds might well feel adequate.
The apps I work on load in something like 0.6 +/-0.3 seconds.

If you use an ORM for the model and the DB schema is complex
the 5 seconds will easily be 10.

CGI pushes you toward loading as little code because the code
is compiled over and over again, which distorts the architecture
toward all sort of microoptimisations. Nasty. If you want to
write code that way, of course, that’s your call.

Regards,
-- 
Aristotle Pagaltzis // 

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Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[Anton Katsarov]

В 11:30 +0200 на 03.10.2008 (пт), Aristotle Pagaltzis написа:
> That’s going to be extraordinarily slow.

Hello this site:

http://www.djmag.bg/

is running on CGI. I think it works fast enough. How do you find it?

Regards.


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Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[J. Shirley]

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Anton Katsarov  wrote:
> В 11:30 +0200 на 03.10.2008 (пт), Aristotle Pagaltzis написа:
>> That's going to be extraordinarily slow.
>
> Hello this site:
>
> http://www.djmag.bg/
>
> is running on CGI. I think it works fast enough. How do you find it?
>
> Regards.
>

It's hideously slow.  It took 16 seconds to load, and most of that was
the first byte.

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Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[Anton Katsarov]

В 13:20 -0800 на 04.02.2009 (ср), J. Shirley написа:

> It's hideously slow.  It took 16 seconds to load, and most of that was
> the first byte.

I do agree. But that is because of the statics. I did some changes to
my .htaccess to serve the static directly from the webserver and now it
loads for 5 seconds to me. Here are the changes:

RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/?(cgi-bin/test.cgi|static|root)
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ /cgi-bin/test.cgi/$1 [PT,L]

RewriteRule ^/?static/(.*)$ /root/static/$1 [PT,L]
RewriteRule ^/?root/(lib|src).*$ /404 [PT,L]

That is not the best decision, but I thins now is fast enough.


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Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[J. Shirley]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Anton Katsarov  wrote:
> В 13:20 -0800 на 04.02.2009 (ср), J. Shirley написа:
>
>> It's hideously slow.  It took 16 seconds to load, and most of that was
>> the first byte.
>
> I do agree. But that is because of the statics. I did some changes to
> my .htaccess to serve the static directly from the webserver and now it
> loads for 5 seconds to me. Here are the changes:
>
> RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/?(cgi-bin/test.cgi|static|root)
> RewriteRule ^(.*)$ /cgi-bin/test.cgi/$1 [PT,L]
>
> RewriteRule ^/?static/(.*)$ /root/static/$1 [PT,L]
> RewriteRule ^/?root/(lib|src).*$ /404 [PT,L]
>
> That is not the best decision, but I thins now is fast enough.

If 5 seconds works for you, cool.

Just as a benchmark, all my apps send full HTML in under .8 seconds
(or I tune them until they do).  It's relatively easy to get FCGI
support and a lot of cheap hosts provide it.

Not using it is just silly.

-J

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Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[Joel Bernstein]

2009/2/5 J. Shirley :
> On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Anton Katsarov  wrote:
>> В 13:20 -0800 на 04.02.2009 (ср), J. Shirley написа:
>>
>>> It's hideously slow.  It took 16 seconds to load, and most of that was
>>> the first byte.
>>
>> I do agree. But that is because of the statics. I did some changes to
>> my .htaccess to serve the static directly from the webserver and now it
>> loads for 5 seconds to me. Here are the changes:
>>
>> RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/?(cgi-bin/test.cgi|static|root)
>> RewriteRule ^(.*)$ /cgi-bin/test.cgi/$1 [PT,L]
>>
>> RewriteRule ^/?static/(.*)$ /root/static/$1 [PT,L]
>> RewriteRule ^/?root/(lib|src).*$ /404 [PT,L]
>>
>> That is not the best decision, but I thins now is fast enough.
>
> If 5 seconds works for you, cool.
>
> Just as a benchmark, all my apps send full HTML in under .8 seconds
> (or I tune them until they do).  It's relatively easy to get FCGI
> support and a lot of cheap hosts provide it.
>
> Not using it is just silly.

I agree with what J Shirley is saying, 5s is still "too slow".

If nothing else, it's a question of concurrent load you can handle as
much as of page load times.

You get 5s when you're the only person hitting the box. What's
performance like when the site gets busy? That's when the forking time
of CGI really hurts.

/joel

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Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[Anton Katsarov]

В 08:30 -0800 на 05.02.2009 (чт), J. Shirley написа:
> If 5 seconds works for you, cool.
> 
> Just as a benchmark, all my apps send full HTML in under .8 seconds
> (or I tune them until they do).  It's relatively easy to get FCGI
> support and a lot of cheap hosts provide it.

I don't want to argue, but HTML loads for about 1 sec. All the other
time is for loading images and flash banners. I can also confess that
the Internet connection in my town is not so good.


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Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[Bill Moseley]

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 06:09:58PM +0200, Anton Katsarov wrote:
> В 13:20 -0800 на 04.02.2009 (ср), J. Shirley написа:
> 
> > It's hideously slow.  It took 16 seconds to load, and most of that was
> > the first byte.
> 
> I do agree. But that is because of the statics. I did some changes to
> my .htaccess to serve the static directly from the webserver and now it
> loads for 5 seconds to me. Here are the changes:

Here's a tool you can use:

http://performance.webpagetest.org:8080/

Will give you some nice charts and a summary.  Below is the detail
of the report.   Obviously, you will ignore much of the report as it
won't really apply.

Optimization Report : 02/05/09 at 11:35:13

Results for 'http://www.djmag.bg/':

Page load time: 17.010 seconds
Time to first byte: 3.394 seconds
Time to Base Page Downloaded: 3.989 seconds
Time to Start Render: 7.036 seconds
Time to Document Complete: 17.010 seconds
Time to Fully Loaded: 17.010 seconds
Bytes sent out: 10.963 KB
Bytes received: 519.764 KB
DNS Lookups: 1
Connections: 31
Requests: 31
   OK Requests:  31
   Redirects:0
   Not Modified: 0
   Not Found:0
   Other:0
Base Page Response: 200


Enable browser caching of static assets:
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/1159774171_sait.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/208781512_160x600.swf
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/266753453_468-60.swf
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/494549063_240x120.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/655846930_240x120.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/73159537_Banner_DavidGuetta_728x90.swf
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/bg.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/events.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/formcheck.css
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/forum.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/header.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/logo1.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/logo2.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/lr.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/print.css
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/screen.css
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/title.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/webface.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/mag.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/1032662367_man_demobaza_icon.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/1217226378_t21.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/32663603_636370654_l.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/363862442_DJMag_BG_logo.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/405249846_NEWS-17473-be3cbb5737aee381d2bf115571f73d43.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/648446979_women_demobaza_icon.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/6589703_J_BTour-One_th.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/news/th/756999078_logo.jpg
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/images/pic.png
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/js/mootools.js
FAILED  (No max-age or expires) - http://www.djmag.bg/static/js/page.js
  Cache score : 0

Use one CDN for all static assets:
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/1159774171_sait.jpg
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/208781512_160x600.swf
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/266753453_468-60.swf
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/494549063_240x120.jpg
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/655846930_240x120.jpg
FAILED - 
http://www.djmag.bg/static/banners/73159537_Banner_DavidGuetta_728x90.swf
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/bg.png
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/events.png
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/formcheck.css
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/forum.png
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/header.png
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/logo1.png
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/logo2.png
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/lr.png
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/print.css
FAILED - http://www.djmag.bg/static/css/screen.css
FA

Re: [Catalyst] Re: Hello, Deployment of Catalyst apps in a shared web hosting account without shell

[J. Shirley]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Anton Katsarov  wrote:
> В 08:30 -0800 на 05.02.2009 (чт), J. Shirley написа:
>> If 5 seconds works for you, cool.
>>
>> Just as a benchmark, all my apps send full HTML in under .8 seconds
>> (or I tune them until they do).  It's relatively easy to get FCGI
>> support and a lot of cheap hosts provide it.
>
> I don't want to argue, but HTML loads for about 1 sec. All the other
> time is for loading images and flash banners. I can also confess that
> the Internet connection in my town is not so good.
>
>

The time to first byte (not HTML processing) in all reporting tools I
used shows >3s (anywhere from 3.1 to 4.8).  Also, time to start render
is a good metric, too (that is is when the HTML document is loaded
sufficiently).

Look at what Bill posted above as far as metrics.  If you want to
build an application that scales out, you need to understand these
things.  If you just build one for yourself, it's up to you.

Also, I'm not arguing, it is simply a fact that running a Catalyst
application via CGI results in very slow load times.  That is why the
recommendation is using FastCGI.

If it loads fast enough for you, that's awesome.

-J

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