RE: [cayugabirds-l] starling fledglings! and solar power!

[Kevin J. McGowan]

Wow, going from Turkey Vultures nesting in your outbuilding to starlings. Kind 
a come-down. But, you still seem to be popular! Keep doing what you are doing.

Best,

Kevin


From: Donna Lee Scott 
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2023 8:28 PM
To: Kevin J. McGowan 
Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] starling fledglings! and solar power!

a Starling nested inside the tall storage cupboard in my carport here at Kendal 
because one door would not latch shut properly.

Lotsa noise from nestlings & the parents, lotsa flung poop as parents flew out!
Now the nestlings have fledged & I need to tie door shut to avoid a repeat 
nesting.
Donna Scott
Kendal at Ithaca-377
Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 4, 2023, at 7:58 PM, Kevin J. McGowan 
mailto:k...@cornell.edu>> wrote:

Wow, it seems starlings fledged this last week! I’ve been hearing them begging 
everywhere. I’ve been doing a weekly hour-long bird census at the Cornell 
compost facility on Stevenson Rd since they opened in, I think, 1999. (I’ve 
only been ebirding it since 2011 or so.) And this week was the first time this 
year it was filled with begging baby starlings! That noise was constant during 
the hour I was there looking for tagged crows. More starling fledglings calling 
all around this weekend. Cleary their breeding was highly synchronized to have 
so many of them out all at once.

So, apropos of the current discussion about costs and benefits of trying to 
clean up our energy use… I alone have submitted 668 checklists from the compost 
hotspot, mostly one-hour-long mostly-stationary censuses of crows, during which 
time I recorded all of the birds that I could detect. This easily covers the 
time when the fields above the compost were horse pasture into the current 
situation with a solar farm. Some creative person could surely do an analysis 
of breeding birds detected in the horse pasture days versus the current solar 
farm. It hasn’t affected to crows so much, but definitely the wintering gulls 
do not like the change. Not sure about breeders. Not many birds breed in the 
middle of a horse pasture, although lots do around the sides.

In memory of our late departed birding friend, Bard Prentiss, Bird Hard!!

Kevin

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RE:[cayugabirds-l] starling fledglings! and solar power!

[Marty Schlabach]

We have had a sizable flock (30+) of fledgling starlings around here 
(Interlaken, NY) for over a week.  It seems much earlier than I remember from 
previous years, but I have no data to compare to.
--Marty
===
Marty Schlabach   m...@cornell.edu
8407 Powell Rd. home  607-532-3467
Interlaken, NY 14847   cell315-521-4315
===


From: bounce-127452551-3494...@list.cornell.edu 
 On Behalf Of Kevin J. McGowan
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2023 7:58 PM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L 
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] starling fledglings! and solar power!

Wow, it seems starlings fledged this last week! I've been hearing them begging 
everywhere. I've been doing a weekly hour-long bird census at the Cornell 
compost facility on Stevenson Rd since they opened in, I think, 1999. (I've 
only been ebirding it since 2011 or so.) And this week was the first time this 
year it was filled with begging baby starlings! That noise was constant during 
the hour I was there looking for tagged crows. More starling fledglings calling 
all around this weekend. Cleary their breeding was highly synchronized to have 
so many of them out all at once.

So, apropos of the current discussion about costs and benefits of trying to 
clean up our energy use... I alone have submitted 668 checklists from the 
compost hotspot, mostly one-hour-long mostly-stationary censuses of crows, 
during which time I recorded all of the birds that I could detect. This easily 
covers the time when the fields above the compost were horse pasture into the 
current situation with a solar farm. Some creative person could surely do an 
analysis of breeding birds detected in the horse pasture days versus the 
current solar farm. It hasn't affected to crows so much, but definitely the 
wintering gulls do not like the change. Not sure about breeders. Not many birds 
breed in the middle of a horse pasture, although lots do around the sides.

In memory of our late departed birding friend, Bard Prentiss, Bird Hard!!

Kevin

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Re: [cayugabirds-l] starling fledglings! and solar power!

[Donna Lee Scott]

a Starling nested inside the tall storage cupboard in my carport here at Kendal 
because one door would not latch shut properly.

Lotsa noise from nestlings & the parents, lotsa flung poop as parents flew out!
Now the nestlings have fledged & I need to tie door shut to avoid a repeat 
nesting.

Donna Scott
Kendal at Ithaca-377
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 4, 2023, at 7:58 PM, Kevin J. McGowan  wrote:


Wow, it seems starlings fledged this last week! I’ve been hearing them begging 
everywhere. I’ve been doing a weekly hour-long bird census at the Cornell 
compost facility on Stevenson Rd since they opened in, I think, 1999. (I’ve 
only been ebirding it since 2011 or so.) And this week was the first time this 
year it was filled with begging baby starlings! That noise was constant during 
the hour I was there looking for tagged crows. More starling fledglings calling 
all around this weekend. Cleary their breeding was highly synchronized to have 
so many of them out all at once.

So, apropos of the current discussion about costs and benefits of trying to 
clean up our energy use… I alone have submitted 668 checklists from the compost 
hotspot, mostly one-hour-long mostly-stationary censuses of crows, during which 
time I recorded all of the birds that I could detect. This easily covers the 
time when the fields above the compost were horse pasture into the current 
situation with a solar farm. Some creative person could surely do an analysis 
of breeding birds detected in the horse pasture days versus the current solar 
farm. It hasn’t affected to crows so much, but definitely the wintering gulls 
do not like the change. Not sure about breeders. Not many birds breed in the 
middle of a horse pasture, although lots do around the sides.

In memory of our late departed birding friend, Bard Prentiss, Bird Hard!!

Kevin

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[cayugabirds-l] starling fledglings! and solar power!

[Kevin J. McGowan]

Wow, it seems starlings fledged this last week! I've been hearing them begging 
everywhere. I've been doing a weekly hour-long bird census at the Cornell 
compost facility on Stevenson Rd since they opened in, I think, 1999. (I've 
only been ebirding it since 2011 or so.) And this week was the first time this 
year it was filled with begging baby starlings! That noise was constant during 
the hour I was there looking for tagged crows. More starling fledglings calling 
all around this weekend. Cleary their breeding was highly synchronized to have 
so many of them out all at once.

So, apropos of the current discussion about costs and benefits of trying to 
clean up our energy use... I alone have submitted 668 checklists from the 
compost hotspot, mostly one-hour-long mostly-stationary censuses of crows, 
during which time I recorded all of the birds that I could detect. This easily 
covers the time when the fields above the compost were horse pasture into the 
current situation with a solar farm. Some creative person could surely do an 
analysis of breeding birds detected in the horse pasture days versus the 
current solar farm. It hasn't affected to crows so much, but definitely the 
wintering gulls do not like the change. Not sure about breeders. Not many birds 
breed in the middle of a horse pasture, although lots do around the sides.

In memory of our late departed birding friend, Bard Prentiss, Bird Hard!!

Kevin


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[cayugabirds-l] Shindagin hollow briefly, Carl's post

[David McDermitt]

Hello,

I have had a poor ear for bird songs even before age has lessened my
hearing. So, like for many others, the Merlin app has been a godsend; it
reminds me of songs and connects me to birds that I know but got rusty on
and also points out birds that aren’t so uncommon but I’m not as familiar
with. Yesterday on Bald hill road extension, I listened to Indigo
Buntings.  Later, I drove through Shindagin Hollow and stopping along the
way, I recorded an apparent Canada warbler and a Hooded warbler and further
along, a Yellow-throated Vireo. Hearing the Hooded was the most gratifying
song to me personally because I've still never seen one and I could hear in
real time what I’ve always missed identifying. This morning in the
Hawthorne Orchard, I also enjoyed hearing Baltimore Orioles and a Wood
Thrush among other cool birds. So, thank you Merlin app developers. You
have produced an amazing product.



Regarding Carl’s post. One takeaway from his post is whether by pursuing
structural changes to our energy policies so quickly, there are negative
consequences. This is a worthwhile question to ask because we know in fact
there are both societal and environmental trade-offs. These are costs worth
bearing apparently, but also worth acknowledging at least from time to time
- the disposal of worn-out solar panels and toxic electric batteries, the
problems with massive lithium mining,  the over-reliance on renewables that
may have led to deaths in the Texas ice storm, etc.

Frankly, I’m glad that Carl is willing to be candid in this community.
Change is upsetting without information and unless there is conversation,
people won’t understand why society is changing so rapidly, e.g. – the NYS
law that will essentially ban natural gas stoves in new construction
beginning in 2026, etc. When legislation moves quickly and seemingly out of
the hands of ordinary citizens and in the hands of intellectuals and
politicians, it’s possible some folks fall behind in the conversation which
creates social fragmentation.

Toyota chairman, Akio Toyoda, said last December that a ‘silent majority’
in the auto industry questioned whether EVs are “really OK to have as a
single option. But they think it’s the trend so they can’t speak loudly.”
This is the company that brought us the Prius. If the chairman of the
company that brought us the Prius is worried about rubbing up against
progressive environmental orthodoxy, then how does the everyday person
feel?

Years ago I shared a post where I observed 3 crows land and circle a
groundhog in my backyard and instead of simply being told, no, they’re
never carnivorous (the behavior was odd and happened repeatedly over
several days) I was shouted down by someone who thought I was anti-bird or
anti-crow when I was merely asking wondering if the crows would be
aggressive in the right/wrong circumstances. For this reason, it sometimes
feels there are folks who in their zealousness towards our planet take it a
step in the wrong direction and wear their beliefs as a form of piety which
is unhelpful. Don’t be upset; be compassionate and get moving.

Good birding.

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Re: [cayugabirds-l] Conservation vs Ecology

[John Gregoire]

A few points on this discussion. Firstly, wind turbine siting is not
governed by law or even regulations. Instead there exist only
"suggestions". The American Bird Conservancy has been fighting for many
years to get the government to make the "suggestions" into "law" or
"requirements". If an Environmental Impact Study is called  for, then this
is the only recourse and the best way for individuals can comment. There
are a few wind power farms that have mechanisms in place to
shut down during heavy migratory flights.

Perhaps activists were too absorbed to suggest safe nuclear power. I have
never understood why that industry has not hired ex Navy, or followed the
practices of our Navy which has run nuclear power safely for decades.

Agriculture is no longer small farms where "the farmers are stewards of the
earth" but huge enterprises working on the principle of Economy of Mass.
Locally we see this in dairy farms and their manure slurry disposal. To me
that is a huge human health problem as well as the cause of the
disappearance of small wetlands, diversion of streams and destruction of
hedgerows and woodlots, all of which are highly imperiled by the recent
SCOTUS decision.

I hope that we can have such discussion without attacking each other.

Pax,
John



On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 10:05 PM  wrote:

> Hi Carl,
>
> I see no need for any fire storm, but I do disagree with your premise.  I
> want to be a climate activist precisely *because* I want to be a
> conservationist preserving what we have locally on the planet as a whole.
> Unless we can reduce climate change, it will wipe out many many more plants
> and animals - it already is doing that.  The weather patterns that result,
> including extreme droughts and resulting wildfires, increased summer heat
> in many areas, warming oceans that increase the frequency and severity of
> coastal storms, sea level rise, more intense inland storms due to warmer
> air holding more moisture - all these factors lead to the destruction of
> plant and animal life with dramatic effectiveness.  As you point out, even
> though some animals can move (assuming there is time and opportunity for
> them in a particular situation, and they have habitat to support them in a
> different area), plants often can't.
>
> That doesn't mean that putting a wind turbine in the middle of a known
> migration route and running it during migration is a good decision IMO.
> Similarly, building solar projects without considering the overall needs of
> grassland birds is not good conservation (although at least where I live
> the grasslands are being gobbled up by new vineyards and new housing and
> parking areas rather than solar projects).  People like you who see value
> in conserving what is here can look at the options and help ensure that
> green energy projects are designed and & sited in ways that protect as much
> of the existing ecology as possible.  Only if people who care & are
> knowledgeable about the damage that can be done by poor design or location
> speak up during the permitting process, and also are willing to comment
> during the regulatory process so that better regulations guide green energy
> projects, only then will those projects be undertaken in ways that minimize
> the effects on the local habitat.  This doesn't mean that every grassland
> can be protected, but it could mean that there is protection for enough
> grasslands in enough different areas to ensure plenty of nesting space
> available.
>
> I hope you will take another look at this and see if maybe you don't see a
> role for yourself in ensuring that the long term survival of the plants and
> animals you clearly are devoted to is protected, and that projects are
> designed and sited with sensitivity to the local ecology.
>
> Best wishes -
>
> Alicia Plotkin
>
>
> On 6/3/2023 5:05 PM, Carl Steckler wrote:
>
> Well, let me state right out front that I am about to ignite a fire storm.
>
> Are we conservationists or are we ecologists? Hope to instruct things like
> green energy and the impact on wildlife.
>
> For the ecologists among you, you place a high value on green, renewable
> energy, but at the same time you are ignoring the fact that green energy is
> detrimental to wildlife and plant life
>
> Wind, turbines, kill hundreds of birds and bats every year. Both of these
> activities are illegal but the fact that it is green energy seems to
> overlook the fact that we’re destroying what we seek to keep.
>
> More and more grassland is disappearing under the covering of silicon,
> solar panels not only are the wildlife dispossessed, but so too is the
> flora. Wildlife can relocate, although it may not be to a suitable habitat,
> but the plants cannot relocate and often end up dying, because the sun that
> gives them nourishment is now blocked by solar panels
>
> Unfortunately, the argument about green energy global warming has become
> more political than environmental
> The science of green energy global warming 

Re:[cayugabirds-l] cayugabirds-l digest: June 04, 2023

[John Lute]

Hi Carl,

Thanks for opening the discussion. I think there are many others who feel
similar to you. We love our birds but are deeply concerned about the
proliferation of wind turbines (killing hundreds of our winged friends),
and the loss of bird habitat disappearing to develop solar farms.

I tiked Alicia's response. It was open-minded and constructive. It might
not have resolved the dichotomy you presented, for discussion, but at least
it was civilized and not dismissive of your intentions.

I have nothing to add to Alicia's suggestions except do not give up the
fight. Speak up during the permitting process, and  comment during the
regulatory process of these projects. You might be a lone voice but do not
get discouraged. There is huge money behind many of these projects.
Unfortunately to many of the project managers, you might appear only to be
a thorn-in-their-side to them; but do not give up.  At least you tried to
do something for our beloved birds.

Finally, never let anyone try to silence you, Carl. Individuals w/ the most
wisdom are the same ones who truly understand how little they actually know
and will never try to shut you down.

John Lute



On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:00 AM Upstate NY Birding digest <
cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu> wrote:

> CAYUGABIRDS-L Digest for Sunday, June 04, 2023.
>
> 1. Conservation vs Ecology
> 2. Re: Conservation vs Ecology
> 3. RE: Conservation vs Ecology
> 4. Re: Conservation vs Ecology
>
> --
>
> Subject: Conservation vs Ecology
> From: Carl Steckler 
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 17:05:32 -0400
> X-Message-Number: 1
>
> Well, let me state right out front that I am about to ignite a fire storm.
>
> Are we conservationists or are we ecologists? Hope to instruct things like
> green energy and the impact on wildlife.
>
> For the ecologists among you, you place a high value on green, renewable
> energy, but at the same time you are ignoring the fact that green energy is
> detrimental to wildlife and plant life
>
> Wind, turbines, kill hundreds of birds and bats every year. Both of these
> activities are illegal but the fact that it is green energy seems to
> overlook the fact that we’re destroying what we seek to keep.
>
> More and more grassland is disappearing under the covering of silicon,
> solar panels not only are the wildlife dispossessed, but so too is the
> flora. Wildlife can relocate, although it may not be to a suitable habitat,
> but the plants cannot relocate and often end up dying, because the sun that
> gives them nourishment is now blocked by solar panels
>
> Unfortunately, the argument about green energy global warming has become
> more political than environmental
> The science of green energy global warming climate change whatever you want
> to call it is flawed
> Some like to say that global warming climate change is caused by humans.
> Well, I’ve seen many studies that support that and many studies that
> disprove that.
> what I haven’t seen yet is a good scientific reason why the earth goes into
> an Ice Age and why the earth comes out of an Ice Age
> And yet again, there are many theories, but they are just that theories
> Without knowing the causes of an ice age or the causes of an ice age
> ending, we are missing a big chunk of cause-and-effect
>
> Does anyone disagree that when an ice age ends it gets warmer? Conversely,
> when an ice age starts, it gets colder and it has been doing that for a lot
> longer time than humans have been on this earth.
>
> So think about it do we want to be climate activist or do we want to be
> conservationist preserving what we have on this planet preserving the
> ecosystem that the animals and plants of this planet so desperately need
>
> I am not arguing, one way or another I have my beliefs, and you probably
> have yours. My purpose is to take a good look at the differences between
> conservation and ecology.
> Carl Steckler
>
> --
>
> Subject: Re: Conservation vs Ecology
> From: Karen 
> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 00:19:29 + (UTC)
> X-Message-Number: 2
>
>
>
> On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 05:05:55 PM EDT, Carl Steckler <
> simmshil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Well, let me state right out front that I am about to ignite a fire storm.
> Are we conservationists or are we ecologists? Hope to instruct things like
> green energy and the impact on wildlife.This is a false dichotomy based on
> an incorrect definition. I taught ecology. I have had over 70 peer-reviewed
> publications in professional journals. I have had major NSF research
> grants. I am an ecologist. I know what ecology is. This is not a correct
> definition of ecology. Ecology is a science. Ecology tries to describe
> things. Ecology tries to develop testable predictions: if A occurs then B
> will follow. Ecology is an objective scientific study. Ecologists often
> have strong, personal feelings/beliefs about