Re: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama
Wallace Stevens's poem "Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird" seems appropriate to this discussion, especially the following stanzas (out of XIII, of course): IV A man and a woman Are one. A man and a woman and a blackbird Are one. V I do not know which to prefer, The beauty of inflections Or the beauty of innuendoes, The blackbird whistling Or just after. …. VIII I know noble accents And lucid, inescapable rhythms; But I know, too, That the blackbird is involved In what I know. Good birding! -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama
I am very aware that birds have attachments; crows are some of the most caring family members in the bird world. I have photographic documentation of them feeding a sick family member, and have witnessed them quietly attending the death of a relative from West Nile virus. No one knows if they feel sadness, but it is reasonable to suppose they do. But the actions described, pecking at the head and pulling on a wing, are aggressive things that care-givers just don't do. I was responding to the description of the observation, not from some cynical world view. Ascribing human emotions to birds is risky at best. If we're ever going to understand animal emotions we have to be careful with our observations. Simply being beside a dead or hurt member of the same species doesn't really tell you much. Male birds and other animals have been documented copulating with dead females (google "davian behavior"), which doesn't seem very respectful to me. The bright colors of a dead male bird would probably still elicit aggressive actions from another male, especially if they two individuals had been fighting right beforehand. Marsha's observation was very interesting and I thank her for sharing, no matter what the interpretaion. Kevin -Original Message- From: bounce-59404780-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-59404780-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Meena Haribal Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:21 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Hi all, First, did you Marsha see two males or one male and a female? If it was a pair then, I beg to differ from Marie and Kevin. Birds do feel sad and will try to help mate. I have seen when the birds get hurt, other birds become curious and come to see what has happened. Recently, a female cardinal hit my car at the passenger door and collapsed on the road. I got distressed and I turned back to see if I could help. It must have taken a couple of minutes for me to turn around and come back to spot where the female had slumped on the road. By the time I came back male cardinal was sitting next to it and was trying to move her with the beak. I won't call it aggression. I think he was distressed that something has happened to his mate. She was bleeding badly. I picked her up and put her on the side of the road. Male stood nearby watching me. I also found a Red-winged Blackbird come and take a look at her too. Same was true for a pair of Orioles who had lost their fledgling to an accident. They stood next to the injured fledgling and tried to revive. I spent half an hour watching and both parents did not budge from the location. They did try to revive and move it to life. A ditto with a family of Common Miner in Australia, parent was hit by a car and it was shocked. If I had left the miner there, another car would have killed it. So I moved him away from the road. The whole family stood in a nearby tree and watched me and the injured miner. After I fed it with some water, it revived after about fifteen minutes it opened one eye. A little later with some more water he moved to a different branch, but still dazed but alive. As I left them and stood and watched second parent went to the injured bird and fledglings followed the parent. I could not wait much longer as I had to hit my campground. I hoped they would be reunited. Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-59404695-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-59404695-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Marie P Read Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:52 PM To: M Kardon; CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Hi Marsha (and all), Cool observation, but it doesn't sound like one bird helping another to me...I'd interpret this as a territorial fight, where one bird chased the other into the window (by mistake), and the pecking is aggression. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com Now on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marie-Read-Wildlife-Photography/104356136271727 From: bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of M Kardon [mk2...@pol.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:09 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Yesterday morning I heard the thump of a bird strike on the dining room window (the only one without a spider web decal on it, so maybe they work). I walked over to check for a downed bird, arriving within 10-15 seconds of the thump, and saw two Baltimore orioles on the grass just under the windows, one with its wings partially out and face down, the other standing right next to it. Within a second or two of my arrival at the window, the standing bird pecked the other bird on the nec
Re: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama
After the fact, as they flew away, I realized I hadn't noticed whether they were male or female or one of each - it happened so quickly and was so surprising. It did occur to me that perhaps it wasn't helping behavior, but somehow, it looked like it. Marsha Kardon - Original Message - From: "M Kardon" To: "Cayuga Bird List Cayuga Bird List" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:09:31 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Yesterday morning I heard the thump of a bird strike on the dining room window (the only one without a spider web decal on it, so maybe they work). I walked over to check for a downed bird, arriving within 10-15 seconds of the thump, and saw two Baltimore orioles on the grass just under the windows, one with its wings partially out and face down, the other standing right next to it. Within a second or two of my arrival at the window, the standing bird pecked the other bird on the neck, and the downed bird jerked and brought its head up, but then slumped again. The standing bird then called hoarsely, then immediately pecked the other bird even harder on the neck. This time it jerked again, then, within a second or two, both birds flew off into the woods together. I've never seen one bird help another in this way. It happened so quickly and was so surprising that I forgot to notice whether they were males or females or one of each. Marsha Kardon -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama
Hi all, First, did you Marsha see two males or one male and a female? If it was a pair then, I beg to differ from Marie and Kevin. Birds do feel sad and will try to help mate. I have seen when the birds get hurt, other birds become curious and come to see what has happened. Recently, a female cardinal hit my car at the passenger door and collapsed on the road. I got distressed and I turned back to see if I could help. It must have taken a couple of minutes for me to turn around and come back to spot where the female had slumped on the road. By the time I came back male cardinal was sitting next to it and was trying to move her with the beak. I won't call it aggression. I think he was distressed that something has happened to his mate. She was bleeding badly. I picked her up and put her on the side of the road. Male stood nearby watching me. I also found a Red-winged Blackbird come and take a look at her too. Same was true for a pair of Orioles who had lost their fledgling to an accident. They stood next to the injured fledgling and tried to revive. I spent half an hour watching and both parents did not budge from the location. They did try to revive and move it to life. A ditto with a family of Common Miner in Australia, parent was hit by a car and it was shocked. If I had left the miner there, another car would have killed it. So I moved him away from the road. The whole family stood in a nearby tree and watched me and the injured miner. After I fed it with some water, it revived after about fifteen minutes it opened one eye. A little later with some more water he moved to a different branch, but still dazed but alive. As I left them and stood and watched second parent went to the injured bird and fledglings followed the parent. I could not wait much longer as I had to hit my campground. I hoped they would be reunited. Meena -Original Message- From: bounce-59404695-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-59404695-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Marie P Read Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:52 PM To: M Kardon; CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Hi Marsha (and all), Cool observation, but it doesn't sound like one bird helping another to me...I'd interpret this as a territorial fight, where one bird chased the other into the window (by mistake), and the pecking is aggression. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com Now on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marie-Read-Wildlife-Photography/104356136271727 From: bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of M Kardon [mk2...@pol.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:09 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Yesterday morning I heard the thump of a bird strike on the dining room window (the only one without a spider web decal on it, so maybe they work). I walked over to check for a downed bird, arriving within 10-15 seconds of the thump, and saw two Baltimore orioles on the grass just under the windows, one with its wings partially out and face down, the other standing right next to it. Within a second or two of my arrival at the window, the standing bird pecked the other bird on the neck, and the downed bird jerked and brought its head up, but then slumped again. The standing bird then called hoarsely, then immediately pecked the other bird even harder on the neck. This time it jerked again, then, within a second or two, both birds flew off into the woods together. I've never seen one bird help another in this way. It happened so quickly and was so surprising that I forgot to notice whether they were males or females or one of each. Marsha Kardon -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/C
RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama
I agree. The second bird is taking the opportunity to get some punches in while the other bird is down. Kevin -Original Message- From: bounce-59404695-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-59404695-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Marie P Read Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:52 PM To: M Kardon; CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Hi Marsha (and all), Cool observation, but it doesn't sound like one bird helping another to me...I'd interpret this as a territorial fight, where one bird chased the other into the window (by mistake), and the pecking is aggression. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com Now on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marie-Read-Wildlife-Photography/104356136271727 From: bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of M Kardon [mk2...@pol.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:09 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Yesterday morning I heard the thump of a bird strike on the dining room window (the only one without a spider web decal on it, so maybe they work). I walked over to check for a downed bird, arriving within 10-15 seconds of the thump, and saw two Baltimore orioles on the grass just under the windows, one with its wings partially out and face down, the other standing right next to it. Within a second or two of my arrival at the window, the standing bird pecked the other bird on the neck, and the downed bird jerked and brought its head up, but then slumped again. The standing bird then called hoarsely, then immediately pecked the other bird even harder on the neck. This time it jerked again, then, within a second or two, both birds flew off into the woods together. I've never seen one bird help another in this way. It happened so quickly and was so surprising that I forgot to notice whether they were males or females or one of each. Marsha Kardon -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama
Hi Marsha (and all), Cool observation, but it doesn't sound like one bird helping another to me...I'd interpret this as a territorial fight, where one bird chased the other into the window (by mistake), and the pecking is aggression. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com Now on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marie-Read-Wildlife-Photography/104356136271727 From: bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-59404556-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of M Kardon [mk2...@pol.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:09 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Yesterday morning I heard the thump of a bird strike on the dining room window (the only one without a spider web decal on it, so maybe they work). I walked over to check for a downed bird, arriving within 10-15 seconds of the thump, and saw two Baltimore orioles on the grass just under the windows, one with its wings partially out and face down, the other standing right next to it. Within a second or two of my arrival at the window, the standing bird pecked the other bird on the neck, and the downed bird jerked and brought its head up, but then slumped again. The standing bird then called hoarsely, then immediately pecked the other bird even harder on the neck. This time it jerked again, then, within a second or two, both birds flew off into the woods together. I've never seen one bird help another in this way. It happened so quickly and was so surprising that I forgot to notice whether they were males or females or one of each. Marsha Kardon -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama
I have seen a couple times something like what Marsha described with the Orioles. A Starling had been killed in the road near South Lansing, but its body was not smashed (suggesting, in appearance at least, that it could get up and fly away). Next to it stood a "frantic" (my interpretation) live Starling pulling at the dead one's wing over and over, as if trying to get it to revive and fly away with the live bird. To my human eyes, the live bird seemed extremely upset that its friend would not get up and fly away. -Donna Scott - Original Message - From: M Kardon To: Cayuga Bird List Cayuga Bird List Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:09 PM Subject: [cayugabirds-l] witnessed bird drama Yesterday morning I heard the thump of a bird strike on the dining room window (the only one without a spider web decal on it, so maybe they work). I walked over to check for a downed bird, arriving within 10-15 seconds of the thump, and saw two Baltimore orioles on the grass just under the windows, one with its wings partially out and face down, the other standing right next to it. Within a second or two of my arrival at the window, the standing bird pecked the other bird on the neck, and the downed bird jerked and brought its head up, but then slumped again. The standing bird then called hoarsely, then immediately pecked the other bird even harder on the neck. This time it jerked again, then, within a second or two, both birds flew off into the woods together. I've never seen one bird help another in this way. It happened so quickly and was so surprising that I forgot to notice whether they were males or females or one of each. Marsha Kardon -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
