Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
Hi Meena, I don't think we have a prescribed rule for resolving temporary weather-induced diversions from the normal drainage, but in the interest of consistency their ephemeral nature weighs against their inclusion. On similar grounds, I think that man-made diversions of a relatively permanent nature should qualify as established parts of the normal drainage. -Geo On Jan 3, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Meena Madhav Haribal m...@cornell.edu wrote: What if water runs in both directions depending upon precipitation? It happens in many locations. Famous example is of a tributary of Amazon, which flows into Orinoco in general, but if the precipitation is heavy then it flows into Amazon. Meena Ithaca Geo Kloppel geoklop...@gmail.com wrote: Well, collectively we're interested in _both_ the 1/1/2015 Ithaca Christmas Bird Count and the Cayuga Basin First Records for 2015. For the former purpose, it suffices to know that the location is within the Ithaca Christmas Count circle. It's for the latter purpose that we need to know which way the surface water runs. -Geo On Jan 3, 2015, at 10:42 AM, Jody W Enck j...@cornell.edu wrote: Hey everyone, this is a great discussion and has very much piqued my interest. I wonder if it matters whether the drainage goes north or south (i.e., is in our out of the Cayuga Lake basin) if we are trying to figure out if the birds count for the Christmas bird count. In this case, doesn’t it matter simply if the birds were in or out of the count circle, not if they were in or out of the basin? Or, did I miss something (which is quite possible ��). Enjoy the birds Jody Jody W. Enck, PhD Program Development and Evaluation Cornell Lab of Ornithology 607-254-2471 From: Geo Kloppel Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:50 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Sandy is correct. Without testing, it's hard to guess which way the surface water ought to run in that flat marshy area south of the road (which is the actual spillway of pro-glacial Lake Brookton and subsequent Lake Ithaca at 980' above present day sea level). But the test has already been performed, and the results are there to see: the builders of the original Ithaca and Owego RR ditched the right of way. The water in the the ditch runs northward, and passes under Belle School Road through a culvert. Its volume suggests that it drains a substantial area on the south side of the road - I'd guess fifty acres or more. The ditch along the south side of Belle School Road coming down from the west also drains northward through the same culvert. -Geo Kloppel -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
What if water runs in both directions depending upon precipitation? It happens in many locations. Famous example is of a tributary of Amazon, which flows into Orinoco in general, but if the precipitation is heavy then it flows into Amazon. Meena Ithaca Geo Kloppel geoklop...@gmail.com wrote: Well, collectively we're interested in _both_ the 1/1/2015 Ithaca Christmas Bird Count and the Cayuga Basin First Records for 2015. For the former purpose, it suffices to know that the location is within the Ithaca Christmas Count circle. It's for the latter purpose that we need to know which way the surface water runs. -Geo On Jan 3, 2015, at 10:42 AM, Jody W Enck j...@cornell.edumailto:j...@cornell.edu wrote: Hey everyone, this is a great discussion and has very much piqued my interest. I wonder if it matters whether the drainage goes north or south (i.e., is in our out of the Cayuga Lake basin) if we are trying to figure out if the birds count for the Christmas bird count. In this case, doesn't it matter simply if the birds were in or out of the count circle, not if they were in or out of the basin? Or, did I miss something (which is quite possible ??). Enjoy the birds Jody Jody W. Enck, PhD Program Development and Evaluation Cornell Lab of Ornithology 607-254-2471 From: Geo Kloppelmailto:geoklop...@gmail.com Sent: ?Saturday?, ?January? ?3?, ?2015 ?9?:?50? ?AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-Lmailto:cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu Sandy is correct. Without testing, it's hard to guess which way the surface water ought to run in that flat marshy area south of the road (which is the actual spillway of pro-glacial Lake Brookton and subsequent Lake Ithaca at 980' above present day sea level). But the test has already been performed, and the results are there to see: the builders of the original Ithaca and Owego RR ditched the right of way. The water in the the ditch runs northward, and passes under Belle School Road through a culvert. Its volume suggests that it drains a substantial area on the south side of the road - I'd guess fifty acres or more. The ditch along the south side of Belle School Road coming down from the west also drains northward through the same culvert. -Geo Kloppel -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l%40cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
Well, collectively we're interested in _both_ the 1/1/2015 Ithaca Christmas Bird Count and the Cayuga Basin First Records for 2015. For the former purpose, it suffices to know that the location is within the Ithaca Christmas Count circle. It's for the latter purpose that we need to know which way the surface water runs. -Geo On Jan 3, 2015, at 10:42 AM, Jody W Enck j...@cornell.edu wrote: Hey everyone, this is a great discussion and has very much piqued my interest. I wonder if it matters whether the drainage goes north or south (i.e., is in our out of the Cayuga Lake basin) if we are trying to figure out if the birds count for the Christmas bird count. In this case, doesn’t it matter simply if the birds were in or out of the count circle, not if they were in or out of the basin? Or, did I miss something (which is quite possible ��). Enjoy the birds Jody Jody W. Enck, PhD Program Development and Evaluation Cornell Lab of Ornithology 607-254-2471 From: Geo Kloppel Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:50 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Sandy is correct. Without testing, it's hard to guess which way the surface water ought to run in that flat marshy area south of the road (which is the actual spillway of pro-glacial Lake Brookton and subsequent Lake Ithaca at 980' above present day sea level). But the test has already been performed, and the results are there to see: the builders of the original Ithaca and Owego RR ditched the right of way. The water in the the ditch runs northward, and passes under Belle School Road through a culvert. Its volume suggests that it drains a substantial area on the south side of the road - I'd guess fifty acres or more. The ditch along the south side of Belle School Road coming down from the west also drains northward through the same culvert. -Geo Kloppel -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
Both GRAY CATBIRD and EASTERN TOWHEE (heard only) were on the north side of the road yesterday anyway. Kevin From: bounce-118669608-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-118669608-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Geo Kloppel Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 9:49 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not? Sandy is correct. Without testing, it's hard to guess which way the surface water ought to run in that flat marshy area south of the road (which is the actual spillway of pro-glacial Lake Brookton and subsequent Lake Ithaca at 980' above present day sea level). But the test has already been performed, and the results are there to see: the builders of the original Ithaca and Owego RR ditched the right of way. The water in the the ditch runs northward, and passes under Belle School Road through a culvert. Its volume suggests that it drains a substantial area on the south side of the road - I'd guess fifty acres or more. The ditch along the south side of Belle School Road coming down from the west also drains northward through the same culvert. -Geo Kloppel -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4257/8855 - Release Date: 01/02/15 -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
Sandy is correct. Without testing, it's hard to guess which way the surface water ought to run in that flat marshy area south of the road (which is the actual spillway of pro-glacial Lake Brookton and subsequent Lake Ithaca at 980' above present day sea level). But the test has already been performed, and the results are there to see: the builders of the original Ithaca and Owego RR ditched the right of way. The water in the the ditch runs northward, and passes under Belle School Road through a culvert. Its volume suggests that it drains a substantial area on the south side of the road - I'd guess fifty acres or more. The ditch along the south side of Belle School Road coming down from the west also drains northward through the same culvert. -Geo Kloppel -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
Considering that we accept MNWR as being in the basin isn't it just academic to be asking which side of a road the birds were? Just saying:?) Carl Steckler -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
I think it's important, too, to think of birding as tennis, not volleyball: on the line is IN, not out. Kevin -Original Message- From: bounce-118669794-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-118669794-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Carl Steckler Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2015 12:55 PM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not? Considering that we accept MNWR as being in the basin isn't it just academic to be asking which side of a road the birds were? Just saying:?) Carl Steckler -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4257/8855 - Release Date: 01/02/15 -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Belle School Rd - CL Basin or Not?
Bob, I have always understood that the divide between the Susquehanna and St. Lawrence basins (The Cayuga Lake Basin is part of the St. Lawrence drainage) was somewhere between Belle School Rd and Ridgeway Road. So, you have forced me to actually look at the maps. Check out this link: http://www.tompkins-co.org/gis/physical.html Here you can download the following: (1) Town of Caroline--Tompkins County (the physical map) Then scroll down to Environmental Maps and download: (2) Watersheds of Tompkins County (3) Danby Watershed The most useful comparison is then to look at the Danby map vs the Town of Caroline, where you can see from the Danby map that they draw the divide mostly right along Belle School Road. Right around the road there it is quite flat and there is marsh on both sides. It is probably hard to tell exactly what water flows which way right there without testing it. You can see, however, that the watershed line (pink) bows away from the road on the south side in one spot fairly close to White Church Rd. The catbird was sitting in a bush along the road right about where that bows out (I am not making this up), so I think we're safe to say that when we saw it, it was in the basin!! The Towhee was on the north side of Belle School Road, right where the blue dotted line goes under the road (a culvert)--so definitely at least a few feet into the basin!! That stream definitely flows north between Coddington and White Church, and there is detectable flow at least 300' in, and probably sooner, but I can't remember seeing whether water flows under the road in one direction or the other. The Field Sparrows were farther in, so not even debatable. Enjoy, Sandy At 10:21 AM 1/2/2015, bob mcguire wrote: Congratulations to Bill Podulka friends for finding Catbird, Towhee, and Field Sparrow on (?) Belle School Rd for the Christmas count. Dave Nutter raised the question of whether they are in or out of the Cayuga Lake basin (for the few of us who really care!) Looking at the aerial photo on Google maps, I'd say that the road itself IS the boundary. So, depending on exactly the birds were seen, they could be in or out. BIll, can you add anything here? Bob McGuire -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
