[OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Voice to CCIE Collaboration Details

[Brian Schear]

They have the details out for CCIE Voice to CCIE Collaboration migration now.

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-21915

Brian Schear
CCIE #36045 (Voice)





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Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

[Brian Schear]

It is Ben Ng.  Found his linked in profile below which describes his position 
in Cisco.

www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940

Profile on the Cisco site.

https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html

Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful arguments 
on this?

Brian


-Original Message-
From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com 
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM
To: Leslie Meade
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

Ben Ng comes to mind

On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade  wrote:

> The question is... what if anything can we do ?
> Where would we start..
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Mark Holloway 
> Date:
> To: Bill Lake 
> Cc: OSL Group ,Vik Malhi
> 
> Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially
> announced
>
>
> Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain 
> CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and 
> Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all 
> falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new 
> CCIE really should be anyway.  The core of the Voice blueprint is still 
> there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current 
> products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another.
>
> In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over 
> again with Collaboration.  There are too many similarities between the two.
>
>
>
> On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake 
> mailto:whl...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Ranting about it won't change anything.  I read on line that when they retire 
> your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab.  If 
> this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag.
>
> That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first 
> from my reading.  Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several 
> others.  See here with the snippet.  Now the second is a wiki so we would 
> want official confirmation.
>
> https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_
> tracks
> Retired CCIE tracks
>
> Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. 
> These are:
>
>  *   WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX 
> switch products, which had been acquired as part of the 
> StrataCom acquisition)
>  *   ISP Dial CCIE
>  *   SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue)
>  *   Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different 
> design tests in format and subjects examined)
>
> People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided 
> they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title "CCIE", 
> rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization.
>
> So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if 
> you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already 
> passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to 
> pass, this might be incentive to change your goal.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george 
> mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Vik,
>
> A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is 
> still the toughest one & i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If 
> Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just 
> Voice.
>
> Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or 
> Voice/Video etc & introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring 
> thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call 
> Manager based on Windows & literally everything based on windows, Analog 
> endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether 
> be it from marketing point of view or any other.  Why can't big buck makers 
> at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish.
>
> With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in 
> Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs 
> until Feb 2014.
>
> At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to "re-consider" this decision. 
> I hope folks concerned "collaborate" &  put their suggestions forward on 
> Cisco Support Community & direct to Cisco Certification teams so they 
> "realize" what they are doing is NOT right.
>
> I will take some months for us to digest this news.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi 
> mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com>> wrote:
> As I said before - I would think product marketing had somethin

Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

[Brian Schear]

Over 500 views and 10 comments overnight.  I suspect passing along the link and 
trying to get as many comments as possible would be good.

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611

Brian


-Original Message-
From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com 
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Parr 
(jamparr)
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:38 AM
To: Leslie Meade; William Bell
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

Agreed, nailed it!

Jamie Parr
CCIE #38633 (voice)
Engineer - IT
jamp...@cisco.com
Phone: +44 20 8824 2641
Mobile: +44 7590622049


-Original Message-
From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com 
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Meade
Sent: 30 May 2013 07:42
To: William Bell
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

Could not say it any better

Sent from my iPad

On May 29, 2013, at 11:28 PM, "William Bell" 
mailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com>> wrote:

Brian,

That was a great write up. Thanks

-Bill

--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla




On May 30, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Brian Schear 
mailto:brian.sch...@vitalsite.com>> wrote:

My 2 cents.

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611

From: 
ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com<mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com>
 
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com<mailto:boun...@onlinestudylist.com>]
 On Behalf OfWilliam Bell
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:28 PM
To: somp...@gmail.com<mailto:somp...@gmail.com>
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com<mailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com>
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

You can also post to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cisco.Learning) or this 
thread on the Cisco learning community 
(https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56590?tstart=0).

The learning community also has Google+ and other social media accounts. There 
is one team that manages most of the social media and another team that manages 
the learning community. I am sure they will listen and bubble up the input they 
receive. Volume counts.

-Bill
--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
twitter: @ucguerrilla




On May 29, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote:


Bill,

Thanks for the twitter account, I just send out my feedback too.

I think another point that needs clarification I think is what guidelines is 
used to EOL the certification?

Without transparency, the risk to have sudden and unexplained EOL announcement 
of any CCIE track can be very real.

Without the guideline, no one would know in advance whether  "CCIE 
Collaboration" will be retired and the new track is created as "CCIE Synergy" 
when CUCM is upgraded to version 14.1 in 3-5 years?What makes us think this 
is a one off?   What if the guidelines clearly stated that if the material 
changes for 30%, the track will be retired and a new track will be created?  
(What if this is an implicit guideline on their port?)Will people still 
think it is worth the effort?

The lack of transparency and guidelines on how the decision is reached make the 
CCIE cert easily one of the most risky investment of time and commitment.  It 
is hard, required high level of commitment and can be short-lived without 
proper communication upfront.

By the way, I don't think Cisco will lose money over this.   Imaging a few year 
from now, CCIE Voice will be faded away and will totally be useless.   All the 
job ads will be for CCIE Collaboration.   Do you think more and more former 
CCIE Voice will reset the CCIE Collaboration lab knowing that the new material 
is not that much anyway.   The exam however is tricky and picky, and on average 
it take some thing like 3.xx times to pass it. (OK, I will discount it to 2 
attempts for former CCIE Voice) So assuming 50% of exiting CCIE Voice 
holders -- appx 1500 - 2000 of them takes this path, Cisco wouldn't be losing 
revenue do they?

2000 (50% of current CCIE Voice Holder) x $1500 (Lab cost) x 2 (On average, two 
attempts) = $6,000,000.-

Mind you that $6 million is nothing for the company of its size, but the point 
is they won't be losing money.





--Somphol

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:31 AM, William Bell 
mailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com>> wrote:
Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a 
collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert.

BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is 
@LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. 
Of course I recommend being polite.

-Bill

--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com<http://ucguerrilla.com/>
twitter: @ucguerrilla



On May 29, 2013,

Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

[Brian Schear]

My 2 cents.

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611

From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com 
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of William Bell
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:28 PM
To: somp...@gmail.com
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced

You can also post to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cisco.Learning) or this 
thread on the Cisco learning community 
(https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56590?tstart=0).

The learning community also has Google+ and other social media accounts. There 
is one team that manages most of the social media and another team that manages 
the learning community. I am sure they will listen and bubble up the input they 
receive. Volume counts.

-Bill
--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
twitter: @ucguerrilla




On May 29, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote:


Bill,

Thanks for the twitter account, I just send out my feedback too.

I think another point that needs clarification I think is what guidelines is 
used to EOL the certification?

Without transparency, the risk to have sudden and unexplained EOL announcement 
of any CCIE track can be very real.

Without the guideline, no one would know in advance whether  "CCIE 
Collaboration" will be retired and the new track is created as "CCIE Synergy" 
when CUCM is upgraded to version 14.1 in 3-5 years?What makes us think this 
is a one off?   What if the guidelines clearly stated that if the material 
changes for 30%, the track will be retired and a new track will be created?  
(What if this is an implicit guideline on their port?)Will people still 
think it is worth the effort?

The lack of transparency and guidelines on how the decision is reached make the 
CCIE cert easily one of the most risky investment of time and commitment.  It 
is hard, required high level of commitment and can be short-lived without 
proper communication upfront.

By the way, I don't think Cisco will lose money over this.   Imaging a few year 
from now, CCIE Voice will be faded away and will totally be useless.   All the 
job ads will be for CCIE Collaboration.   Do you think more and more former 
CCIE Voice will reset the CCIE Collaboration lab knowing that the new material 
is not that much anyway.   The exam however is tricky and picky, and on average 
it take some thing like 3.xx times to pass it. (OK, I will discount it to 2 
attempts for former CCIE Voice) So assuming 50% of exiting CCIE Voice 
holders -- appx 1500 - 2000 of them takes this path, Cisco wouldn't be losing 
revenue do they?

2000 (50% of current CCIE Voice Holder) x $1500 (Lab cost) x 2 (On average, two 
attempts) = $6,000,000.-

Mind you that $6 million is nothing for the company of its size, but the point 
is they won't be losing money.





--Somphol

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:31 AM, William Bell 
mailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com>> wrote:
Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a 
collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert.

BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is 
@LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. 
Of course I recommend being polite.

-Bill

--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
twitter: @ucguerrilla



On May 29, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Martin Sloan wrote:


I thought so too.  I could see if it was getting obnoxious but all of the 
comments were pretty professional.

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, William Bell 
mailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com>> wrote:
They did disable commenting. That's interesting.


--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
twitter: @ucguerrilla




On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote:


Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post?

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804
I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 
2 cents in.  I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: 
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other.

Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page?

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm 
mailto:rrcr...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Ben Ng comes to mind

On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade 
mailto:leslie.me...@lvs1.com>> wrote:

> The question is... what if anything can we do ?
> Where would we start..
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Mark Holloway mailto:m...@markholloway.com>>
> Date:
> To: Bill Lake mailto:whl...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: OSL Group 
> mailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com>>,Vik 
> Malhi mailto:vma...@ipexpert.com>>
> Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
>
>
> Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain 
> CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration

[OSL | CCIE_Voice] Cheap VMWare Server for VMs

[Brian Schear]

Any suggestions on a cheap computer to pick up that has worked well for a 
VMWare server for ahome lab?

Thank you.

Brian Schear