Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
For all those who asked about the new edition of the Sherwood book, it is available for pre-order on Amazon (at least on the UK version, search for "Crystals, X-rays and Proteins: Comprehensive Crystallography"). Simon PS Jon - do I get a commission? On 12 Jul 2010, at 11:28, F.Xavier Gomis-Rüth wrote: Could you please let us know when it appears ? A message to the ccp4bb would be really very much appreciated. Best, Xavier Simon Kolstoe escribió: FYI an updated version of the Sherwood book will hopefully be published in the next few months. Simon On 10 Jul 2010, at 18:04, Vineet Gaur wrote: Hi, I found "Crystal, X-rays and Proteins" by Dennis Sherwood very helpful in understanding the basic concepts of crystallography. However, it seems that the book is out of print. It would be great, If anyone here is having an E-copy of this book and can share with us. Thanks, Vineet --
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
FYI an updated version of the Sherwood book will hopefully be published in the next few months. Simon On 10 Jul 2010, at 18:04, Vineet Gaur wrote: Hi, I found "Crystal, X-rays and Proteins" by Dennis Sherwood very helpful in understanding the basic concepts of crystallography. However, it seems that the book is out of print. It would be great, If anyone here is having an E-copy of this book and can share with us. Thanks, Vineet
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Hi, I found "Crystal, X-rays and Proteins" by Dennis Sherwood very helpful in understanding the basic concepts of crystallography. However, it seems that the book is out of print. It would be great, If anyone here is having an E-copy of this book and can share with us. Thanks, Vineet
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Dear Peter, Other recent titles of direct relevance are by Ladd and Palmer now into its 4th Edition, a notable achievement, as well as by Messerschmidt. Detailed Book Reviews of most titles mentioned can be found in Acta Crystallographica, accessible at www.iucr.org and also in Crystallography Reviews. Bes wishes, John Prof John R Helliwell On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Hsu wrote: > Hi all, > > I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly > still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone > recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular > crystallography? > > Thanks, > Peter > -- Professor John R Helliwell DSc
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Stout and Jensen, "X-ray structure determination", 1989 Solid mid-level theory with practical examples. Most of the hardware discussed is very dates, but otherwise an excellent intermediate text. Nic out Bernhard Rupp wrote: The question of what textbook to use is very much context sensitive, that is, it depends on what the reader wants and needs to know. Unfortunately, this question us easy to answer with hindsight, but not so obvious to the person looking for answers. Having said that, I declare a conflict of interest as one of the mentioned textbook authors. The conflict, however, is modest because I am not aware of anyone making a fortune on crystallography textbooks. I think it is reasonable to delineate the textbook market by what the reader ultimately wants to accomplish. What a structural biologist should know, versus what is expert knowledge, has been a contentious issue for quite some years. A lot of people have thought hard about this, and the education committees of the American Crystallographic Association (ACA) and USNC/Cr organized a crystallography education summit, whose outcome is the consensus policy statement on crystallography education and training available from here: http://www.ruppweb.org/garland/study_group.htm I privately think that as a first contact for the user of structure models, the Rhodes book is a great start. If you are a tad more interested in how it works, Jenny Glusker's old text in its revised form is still one of my favorites, and the Blow book as well Alex's compilation are quite useful. Drenth helps once you are already engaged in the business, and have some idea what it is about. The IUCr compilation is an extremely useful hard core resource if you are interested in the nuz and bolz of crystallography in general. Not to forget the excellent multi-author volumes of Methods of Enzymology as an in-depth resource. Having said that, the reason why I decided to add another tome (BMC) to the already prolific writings in protein crystallography is that I felt that none of the above provided a consistent and modern picture of crystallography in the probabilistic framework it actually operates in. This is - in a crystallographic time frame - ancient history; a first resource being the 1952 work of Crick and Blow, and it continues via French and Wilson to Bricogne and on. So, as a concluding statement, I think there is more to biomolecular crystallography that just nuz and bolz, and it touches many very fundamental challenges and uncertainties, ultimately forcing my emphasis on probabilistic approaches and the resulting digressions in the subversive sidebars. Consequentially, if you like the Schaum series and Kaplan SAT rest prep books, don't waste your money on my book. Instead, get one of the (nearly as expensive by weight and volume) monographs mentioned above, they are in fact good and will lead you in the right direction. If you like Neal Stevenson, Rev. Bayes, and a touch of randomness, and you understand that the probability of receiving the Nobel Price approaches practically zero once you have been infected by the spirit of BMC, go for it ;-) BR -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Robert Sweet Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:26 PM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text I like David Blow's book for beginners -- one can get the gist of things without having much math: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=blow&sts=t&tn=crystallograp hy&x=35&y=6 Bernhard Rupp's book, mentioned earlier, is the current gold standard, in my view. Bob On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Prince, D Bryan wrote: Having recently completed the CSHL Macromolecular crystallography course, I can recommend Introduction to Macromolecular Crystallography by Alexander McPherson (ISBN 987-0-470-18590-2). I am posting the link below: http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Macromolecular-Crystallography-Alexander- McPherson/dp/0470185902/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278619717&sr=1-1 Kind regards and good luck! Bryan -- Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Peter Hsu Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:36 PM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
The question of what textbook to use is very much context sensitive, that is, it depends on what the reader wants and needs to know. Unfortunately, this question us easy to answer with hindsight, but not so obvious to the person looking for answers. Having said that, I declare a conflict of interest as one of the mentioned textbook authors. The conflict, however, is modest because I am not aware of anyone making a fortune on crystallography textbooks. I think it is reasonable to delineate the textbook market by what the reader ultimately wants to accomplish. What a structural biologist should know, versus what is expert knowledge, has been a contentious issue for quite some years. A lot of people have thought hard about this, and the education committees of the American Crystallographic Association (ACA) and USNC/Cr organized a crystallography education summit, whose outcome is the consensus policy statement on crystallography education and training available from here: http://www.ruppweb.org/garland/study_group.htm I privately think that as a first contact for the user of structure models, the Rhodes book is a great start. If you are a tad more interested in how it works, Jenny Glusker's old text in its revised form is still one of my favorites, and the Blow book as well Alex's compilation are quite useful. Drenth helps once you are already engaged in the business, and have some idea what it is about. The IUCr compilation is an extremely useful hard core resource if you are interested in the nuz and bolz of crystallography in general. Not to forget the excellent multi-author volumes of Methods of Enzymology as an in-depth resource. Having said that, the reason why I decided to add another tome (BMC) to the already prolific writings in protein crystallography is that I felt that none of the above provided a consistent and modern picture of crystallography in the probabilistic framework it actually operates in. This is - in a crystallographic time frame - ancient history; a first resource being the 1952 work of Crick and Blow, and it continues via French and Wilson to Bricogne and on. So, as a concluding statement, I think there is more to biomolecular crystallography that just nuz and bolz, and it touches many very fundamental challenges and uncertainties, ultimately forcing my emphasis on probabilistic approaches and the resulting digressions in the subversive sidebars. Consequentially, if you like the Schaum series and Kaplan SAT rest prep books, don't waste your money on my book. Instead, get one of the (nearly as expensive by weight and volume) monographs mentioned above, they are in fact good and will lead you in the right direction. If you like Neal Stevenson, Rev. Bayes, and a touch of randomness, and you understand that the probability of receiving the Nobel Price approaches practically zero once you have been infected by the spirit of BMC, go for it ;-) BR -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Robert Sweet Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:26 PM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text I like David Blow's book for beginners -- one can get the gist of things without having much math: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=blow&sts=t&tn=crystallograp hy&x=35&y=6 Bernhard Rupp's book, mentioned earlier, is the current gold standard, in my view. Bob On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Prince, D Bryan wrote: > Having recently completed the CSHL Macromolecular crystallography course, I can recommend Introduction to Macromolecular Crystallography by Alexander McPherson (ISBN 987-0-470-18590-2). I am posting the link below: > > http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Macromolecular-Crystallography-Alexander- McPherson/dp/0470185902/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278619717&sr=1-1 > > Kind regards and good luck! > > Bryan > > > -- > Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. > > -Original Message- > From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Hsu > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:36 PM > To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > Subject: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text > > Hi all, > > I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular crystallo
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Back when I was a graduate student, my favorite book was Drenth. However, that book was never a favorite with most students, who preferred Crystallography Made Crystal Clear. I also think the Blow book is good. I'm not familiar with the newer books written by our mailing list colleagues. ho
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
I like David Blow's book for beginners -- one can get the gist of things without having much math: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=blow&sts=t&tn=crystallography&x=35&y=6 Bernhard Rupp's book, mentioned earlier, is the current gold standard, in my view. Bob On Thu, 8 Jul 2010, Prince, D Bryan wrote: Having recently completed the CSHL Macromolecular crystallography course, I can recommend Introduction to Macromolecular Crystallography by Alexander McPherson (ISBN 987-0-470-18590-2). I am posting the link below: http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Macromolecular-Crystallography-Alexander-McPherson/dp/0470185902/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278619717&sr=1-1 Kind regards and good luck! Bryan -- Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Hsu Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:36 PM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text Hi all, I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular crystallography? Thanks, Peter -- = Robert M. Sweet E-Dress: sw...@bnl.gov Group Leader, PXRR: Macromolecular ^ (that's L Crystallography Research Resource at NSLSnot 1) http://px.nsls.bnl.gov/ Biology Dept Brookhaven Nat'l Lab. Phones: Upton, NY 11973631 344 3401 (Office) U.S.A. 631 344 2741 (Facsimile) =
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Having recently completed the CSHL Macromolecular crystallography course, I can recommend Introduction to Macromolecular Crystallography by Alexander McPherson (ISBN 987-0-470-18590-2). I am posting the link below: http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Macromolecular-Crystallography-Alexander-McPherson/dp/0470185902/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278619717&sr=1-1 Kind regards and good luck! Bryan -- Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. -Original Message- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Hsu Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:36 PM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text Hi all, I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular crystallography? Thanks, Peter
[ccp4bb] RES: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Hi Peter, I understood your situation and I believe the best literature for you is the Dr. Rupp's Book: "Biomolecular Crystallography: Principles, Practice, and Application to Structural Biology" Author: Benhard Rupp. Good luck in your studies. Best regards, Júlio César -Mensagem original- De: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] Em nome de Peter Hsu Enviada em: quinta-feira, 8 de julho de 2010 16:36 Para: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Assunto: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text Hi all, I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular crystallography? Thanks, Peter
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
At the risk of appearing immodest: http://www.amazon.com/Protein-Crystallography-Eaton-E-Lattman/dp/0801888069/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278618335&sr=1-10 On 8 Jul 2010, at 3:35 PM, Peter Hsu wrote: > Hi all, > > I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly > still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone > recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular crystallography? > > Thanks, > Peter --- Patrick J. Loll, Ph. D. Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology Director, Biochemistry Graduate Program Drexel University College of Medicine Room 10-102 New College Building 245 N. 15th St., Mailstop 497 Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192 USA (215) 762-7706 pat.l...@drexelmed.edu
Re: [ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
This book worked great for me: http://www.amazon.com/Crystallography-Made-Crystal-Clear-Third/dp/0125870736/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278618216&sr=1-3 Cheers, Thomas On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:35, Peter Hsu wrote: > Hi all, > > I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly > still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone > recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular crystallography? > > Thanks, > Peter >
[ccp4bb] Beginning crystallography text
Hi all, I haven't gotten past the phase of growing the crystal, but I'd certainly still like to learn the actual theories of crystallography. Can anyone recommend a good beginner to mid-level text on macromolecular crystallography? Thanks, Peter
