Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
I agree with Tim on this one. A diffract-o-meter is a device for measuring diffraction. Yes, at one time a Geiger counter attached to a 4- or 5-circle rotation stage was the only kind of diffractometer, but that is no reason to make the term exclusive to the original device. As for Gerard's follow up, I remind him of the immortal wisdom of Jack Handey: Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself. Basically, it's made up of two separate words — mank and ind. What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind. -James Holton MAD Scientist On 6/19/2013 3:11 PM, Tim Gruene wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Ed, to me, an '-ometer' is a device that measures whatever you put in front of the 'o', so in case of a diffractometer that's a device that measures diffraction. Best, Tim On 06/19/2013 08:11 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab - -- Dr Tim Gruene Institut fuer anorganische Chemie Tammannstr. 4 D-37077 Goettingen GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFRwiyEUxlJ7aRr7hoRAuJkAKDGtawLHRpOnErm9o1HQPpaNTQAfwCeOj4E LufTOxcBtrkHVM2XGcK9/pM= =4rop -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
As for Gerard's follow up, I remind him of the immortal wisdom of Jack Handey: Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself. Basically, it's made up of two separate words ? mank and ind. What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind. Being the misanthrope that I am, I would like to point out that it's also an anagram of damn kin. --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! **
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
Dear Colleagues, If we may combine Ethan's quote from Stout and Jensen with Tim's meter:- With film the estimating of a spot's blackness by eye is not a meter, it originally was a person's eye aided by a reference strip of blackened graduated spot exposures. With measuring devices the subjectivity goes and it is therefore a meter. I therefore believe that eg a CCD diffractometer is a valid terminology. Greetings, John Prof John R Helliwell DSc On 19 Jun 2013, at 19:11, Edward A. Berry ber...@upstate.edu wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
So, in SI units it would be a kilometerometer? --dvd On Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Edward A. Berry wrote: an Odometer measures hod?s: wikipedia: The word derives from the Greek words hod?s (path or gateway) and m?tron (measure). In countries where Imperial units or US customary units are used, it is sometimes called a mileometer or milometer, or, colloquially, a tripometer. Tim Gruene wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yes, but you need to know the 'geo' has to do with earth, so geometers measure the earth to make maps, odo, I believe has to do with smell, and kilometer is hyphenated kilo-meter, no kil-ometer, so the origin of that word is nothing to do with 'ometer'. Remembering stuff from your school days help a great deal understanding the world around you ;-) Best, Tim On 06/20/2013 01:14 AM, Gerard DVD Kleywegt wrote: Wait, so a geometer measures ges, an odometer measures ods, and a kilometer measures kils? --dvd On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Tim Gruene wrote: Dear Ed, to me, an '-ometer' is a device that measures whatever you put in front of the 'o', so in case of a diffractometer that's a device that measures diffraction. Best, Tim On 06/19/2013 08:11 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab Best wishes, --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! ** - -- Dr Tim Gruene Institut fuer anorganische Chemie Tammannstr. 4 D-37077 Goettingen GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFRwmb2UxlJ7aRr7hoRAm3QAKCtXvSgkJsdEsyTHlZcNIRA4HPn/ACfTdil j50Wu3GYaoAEl8RNIDAd92M= =nZ6U -END PGP SIGNATURE- Best wishes, --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! **
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
No, a kilometer is what they use in shooter video games. On 20/06/2013 08:49, Gerard DVD Kleywegt wrote: So, in SI units it would be a kilometerometer? --dvd On Wed, 19 Jun 2013, Edward A. Berry wrote: an Odometer measures hod?s: wikipedia: The word derives from the Greek words hod?s (path or gateway) and m?tron (measure). In countries where Imperial units or US customary units are used, it is sometimes called a mileometer or milometer, or, colloquially, a tripometer. Tim Gruene wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yes, but you need to know the 'geo' has to do with earth, so geometers measure the earth to make maps, odo, I believe has to do with smell, and kilometer is hyphenated kilo-meter, no kil-ometer, so the origin of that word is nothing to do with 'ometer'. Remembering stuff from your school days help a great deal understanding the world around you ;-) Best, Tim On 06/20/2013 01:14 AM, Gerard DVD Kleywegt wrote: Wait, so a geometer measures ges, an odometer measures ods, and a kilometer measures kils? --dvd On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Tim Gruene wrote: Dear Ed, to me, an '-ometer' is a device that measures whatever you put in front of the 'o', so in case of a diffractometer that's a device that measures diffraction. Best, Tim On 06/19/2013 08:11 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab Best wishes, --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! ** - -- Dr Tim Gruene Institut fuer anorganische Chemie Tammannstr. 4 D-37077 Goettingen GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFRwmb2UxlJ7aRr7hoRAm3QAKCtXvSgkJsdEsyTHlZcNIRA4HPn/ACfTdil j50Wu3GYaoAEl8RNIDAd92M= =nZ6U -END PGP SIGNATURE- Best wishes, --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! **
[ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:11:01 am Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). As I originally learned the term, it meant a photon-counting device (discrete counts) as opposed to film or other analog measurement. Stout Jensen (1968 1st ed page 149): Two general methods are available for measuring the intensities of diffracted beams. Either the beams may be detected by some sort of quantum counting device which measures the number of photons directly (diffractometer or counter methods) or else the degree of blackening of spots on diffraction photographs may be measured and taken as proportional to the beam intensity (photographic methods). All rotation cameras and Weisenberg cameras that I have encountered used film or image plates for recording data, so they fall in the photographic methods category. But really both of these refer to the geometry used during the experiment. In principle you could mount a Pilatus detector on a rotation camera, or kit out a cylindrical drift chamber as a Weissenberg camera (maybe). That would shift them into the diffractometer category. Area detectors came later. But they too come in both photon-counting varieties (multiwire detectors, pixel detectors) and analog proportional detectors (imaging plates, CCD). The line is blurred in the case of CCD/pixel detectors operating in a mode where accumulated charge is translated back into a specific number of photons. Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. That does not match the historical use of the term. -- Ethan A Merritt Biomolecular Structure Center, K-428 Health Sciences Bldg University of Washington, Seattle 98195-7742
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Ed, to me, an '-ometer' is a device that measures whatever you put in front of the 'o', so in case of a diffractometer that's a device that measures diffraction. Best, Tim On 06/19/2013 08:11 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab - -- Dr Tim Gruene Institut fuer anorganische Chemie Tammannstr. 4 D-37077 Goettingen GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFRwiyEUxlJ7aRr7hoRAuJkAKDGtawLHRpOnErm9o1HQPpaNTQAfwCeOj4E LufTOxcBtrkHVM2XGcK9/pM= =4rop -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
Wait, so a geometer measures ges, an odometer measures ods, and a kilometer measures kils? --dvd On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Tim Gruene wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear Ed, to me, an '-ometer' is a device that measures whatever you put in front of the 'o', so in case of a diffractometer that's a device that measures diffraction. Best, Tim On 06/19/2013 08:11 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab - -- Dr Tim Gruene Institut fuer anorganische Chemie Tammannstr. 4 D-37077 Goettingen GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFRwiyEUxlJ7aRr7hoRAuJkAKDGtawLHRpOnErm9o1HQPpaNTQAfwCeOj4E LufTOxcBtrkHVM2XGcK9/pM= =4rop -END PGP SIGNATURE- Best wishes, --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! **
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yes, but you need to know the 'geo' has to do with earth, so geometers measure the earth to make maps, odo, I believe has to do with smell, and kilometer is hyphenated kilo-meter, no kil-ometer, so the origin of that word is nothing to do with 'ometer'. Remembering stuff from your school days help a great deal understanding the world around you ;-) Best, Tim On 06/20/2013 01:14 AM, Gerard DVD Kleywegt wrote: Wait, so a geometer measures ges, an odometer measures ods, and a kilometer measures kils? --dvd On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Tim Gruene wrote: Dear Ed, to me, an '-ometer' is a device that measures whatever you put in front of the 'o', so in case of a diffractometer that's a device that measures diffraction. Best, Tim On 06/19/2013 08:11 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab Best wishes, --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! ** - -- Dr Tim Gruene Institut fuer anorganische Chemie Tammannstr. 4 D-37077 Goettingen GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFRwmb2UxlJ7aRr7hoRAm3QAKCtXvSgkJsdEsyTHlZcNIRA4HPn/ACfTdil j50Wu3GYaoAEl8RNIDAd92M= =nZ6U -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of diffractometer
an Odometer measures hodós: wikipedia: The word derives from the Greek words hodós (path or gateway) and métron (measure). In countries where Imperial units or US customary units are used, it is sometimes called a mileometer or milometer, or, colloquially, a tripometer. Tim Gruene wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yes, but you need to know the 'geo' has to do with earth, so geometers measure the earth to make maps, odo, I believe has to do with smell, and kilometer is hyphenated kilo-meter, no kil-ometer, so the origin of that word is nothing to do with 'ometer'. Remembering stuff from your school days help a great deal understanding the world around you ;-) Best, Tim On 06/20/2013 01:14 AM, Gerard DVD Kleywegt wrote: Wait, so a geometer measures ges, an odometer measures ods, and a kilometer measures kils? --dvd On Thu, 20 Jun 2013, Tim Gruene wrote: Dear Ed, to me, an '-ometer' is a device that measures whatever you put in front of the 'o', so in case of a diffractometer that's a device that measures diffraction. Best, Tim On 06/19/2013 08:11 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: Somewhere I got the idea that a diffractometer is an instrument that measures one reflection at a time. Is that the case, and if so what is the term for instruments like rotation camera, weisenberg, area detector? (What is an area detector?). Logically I guess a diffractometer could be anything that measures diffraction, and that seems to be view of the wikipedia article of that name. eab Best wishes, --Gerard ** Gerard J. Kleywegt http://xray.bmc.uu.se/gerard mailto:ger...@xray.bmc.uu.se ** The opinions in this message are fictional. Any similarity to actual opinions, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ** Little known gastromathematical curiosity: let z be the radius and a the thickness of a pizza. Then the volume of that pizza is equal to pi*z*z*a ! ** - -- Dr Tim Gruene Institut fuer anorganische Chemie Tammannstr. 4 D-37077 Goettingen GPG Key ID = A46BEE1A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFRwmb2UxlJ7aRr7hoRAm3QAKCtXvSgkJsdEsyTHlZcNIRA4HPn/ACfTdil j50Wu3GYaoAEl8RNIDAd92M= =nZ6U -END PGP SIGNATURE-
