Re: [ccp4bb] International Symbol for sin(theta)/lambda

2011-06-30 Thread Richard Edward Gillilan
This has been a point of confusion

Here are the conventions used in a few of the classic SAXS text vs. recent 
reviews:

--
I believe Guinier actually used the variable u in his thesis, but must have 
changed at some point (I don't have it handy to check at the moment).

Guinier  Fournet (1955)   h = 4pi Sin(theta)/lambda   where 2*theta = 
scattering angle

Glatter  Kratky (1982) (including chapters by Porod and other authors)  h 
= 4pi Sin(theta)/lambda

--- so h makes sense if one is familiar with crystallography derivations. 

Feigin  Svergun (1987) s = 4pi Sin(theta)/lambda   

The notation s seems to come from the notation for scattering vectors.

Svergun publications consistently use s this way, though the software can 
define s with or without the 2pi and in either inverse nanometers or inverse 
Angstroms. In my experience very few use 2Sin(theta)/lambda, though it is more 
familiar to crystallographers as the inverse of the d-spacing.

But q is widely used in BioSAXS:

Putnam, Hammel, Hura  Tainer (2007)   q = 4 pi Sin(theta)/lambda
Jacques and Trewhella (2010)q = 4 pi Sin(theta)/lambda

Why q? I haven't traced it back yet. From generalized coordinate of classical 
mechanics maybe?



On Jun 30, 2011, at 3:37 AM, James Stroud wrote:

 Hello All,
 
 Is there precedent or a conventional shorthand (e.g. greek letter) for 
 sin(theta)/lambda?
 
 Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
 
 James


Re: [ccp4bb] International Symbol for sin(theta)/lambda

2011-06-30 Thread Gerard Bricogne
The most extreme degree of confusion (or at least of requirement for fast
mental arithmetic) I have come across in relation to this topic is the habit
of small-molecule crystallographers working on accurate density studies to
characterise the resolution limit of their datasets by quoting the maximum
value of sin(theta)/lambda in Angstrom^-1. Upon being told of a dataset
with a resolution of 1.25 in sin(theta)/lambda you have to quickly deduce
that the maximum d* value is 2.50 and therefore, in protein crystallographer
lingo, the resolution limit dmin is 0.40 Angstrom. Then, you start feeling
very envious.


With best wishes,

 Gerard.

--
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 02:07:28PM -0400, Richard Edward Gillilan wrote:
 This has been a point of confusion
 
 Here are the conventions used in a few of the classic SAXS text vs. recent 
 reviews:
 
 --
 I believe Guinier actually used the variable u in his thesis, but must have 
 changed at some point (I don't have it handy to check at the moment).
 
 Guinier  Fournet (1955)   h = 4pi Sin(theta)/lambda   where 2*theta = 
 scattering angle
 
 Glatter  Kratky (1982) (including chapters by Porod and other authors)  
 h = 4pi Sin(theta)/lambda
 
 --- so h makes sense if one is familiar with crystallography derivations. 
 
 Feigin  Svergun (1987) s = 4pi Sin(theta)/lambda   
 
 The notation s seems to come from the notation for scattering vectors.
 
 Svergun publications consistently use s this way, though the software can 
 define s with or without the 2pi and in either inverse nanometers or inverse 
 Angstroms. In my experience very few use 2Sin(theta)/lambda, though it is 
 more familiar to crystallographers as the inverse of the d-spacing.
 
 But q is widely used in BioSAXS:
 
 Putnam, Hammel, Hura  Tainer (2007)   q = 4 pi Sin(theta)/lambda
 Jacques and Trewhella (2010)q = 4 pi Sin(theta)/lambda
 
 Why q? I haven't traced it back yet. From generalized coordinate of classical 
 mechanics maybe?
 
 
 
 On Jun 30, 2011, at 3:37 AM, James Stroud wrote:
 
  Hello All,
  
  Is there precedent or a conventional shorthand (e.g. greek letter) for 
  sin(theta)/lambda?
  
  Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
  
  James

-- 

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