Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Andreas Förster]

Thanks to all who replied.  I was a bit unclear.  We don't have house 
water cool the anode directly.  A Haskris WW1 water/water exchanger 
mediates that.  Problem is that this overheats, presumably when the 
house water supply is cut because of a pump failure in the building.


Things seem clean overall, but I'll have closer look at that and 
consider adding filters.  A pump to pull water through the chiller was 
also mentioned by some.  Lastly the building side itself.  Maybe the 
pump is programmed to switch off under low overall load.  I'll look into 
this.


I've emailed Haskris, but would anyone have a manual for the WW1 by chance?

Best.


Andreas



On 24/07/2014 10:32, Ed Hoeffner wrote:

Hi

Ours is cooled by a Haskris R250, which is sized for an XStream also. While
our heat exchangers have had a couple of issues, overall the Haskris heat
exchangers have performed quite well. They redesigned ours when they found
out about our building chilled water. I'm not affiliated with and heartily
recommend them.

As for the water itself, I would ***NEVER*** allow building chilled water
into the generator. Our water is extremely dirty and the supply is slightly
below spec, so we have a pump downstream of the heat exchanger. There are
also 2 filters upstream to pull some of the junk out. Lately, startup has
required the use of the pump, which I interpret as buildup in the condenser,
so that's eventually going to need a cleanout. That was what the redesign
was all about.

I imagine ours is an extreme case, but the heat exchanger makes up for a
variety of ills. Rigaku also recommends a DI filter to keep conductivity low
in the water going into the generator, which improves anode lifetime.
Building chilled water will never be able to be as low as desired. Besides,
facilities people can change things and you'd never know until it's too
late...

Ed

-Original Message-
From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of
Andreas Förster
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:54 AM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

Dear all,

I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by chilled
water supplied rather unreliably through the building infrastructure.  I was
wondering what alternatives exist.

Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with alternative
cooling solutions with me?

Thank you.


Andreas






--
  Andreas Förster
 Crystallization and X-ray Facility Manager
   Centre for Structural Biology
  Imperial College London

Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Ed Hoeffner]

Hi

Ours is cooled by a Haskris R250, which is sized for an XStream also. While
our heat exchangers have had a couple of issues, overall the Haskris heat
exchangers have performed quite well. They redesigned ours when they found
out about our building chilled water. I'm not affiliated with and heartily
recommend them.

As for the water itself, I would ***NEVER*** allow building chilled water
into the generator. Our water is extremely dirty and the supply is slightly
below spec, so we have a pump downstream of the heat exchanger. There are
also 2 filters upstream to pull some of the junk out. Lately, startup has
required the use of the pump, which I interpret as buildup in the condenser,
so that's eventually going to need a cleanout. That was what the redesign
was all about.

I imagine ours is an extreme case, but the heat exchanger makes up for a
variety of ills. Rigaku also recommends a DI filter to keep conductivity low
in the water going into the generator, which improves anode lifetime.
Building chilled water will never be able to be as low as desired. Besides,
facilities people can change things and you'd never know until it's too
late...

Ed

-Original Message-
From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of
Andreas Förster
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:54 AM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

Dear all,

I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by chilled
water supplied rather unreliably through the building infrastructure.  I was
wondering what alternatives exist.

Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with alternative
cooling solutions with me?

Thank you.


Andreas




-- 
   Andreas Förster
  Crystallization and X-ray Facility Manager
Centre for Structural Biology
   Imperial College London

Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Matthew Franklin]

Hi Andreas -

My 007HF is cooled by a Haskris R050 chiller which I got from Rigaku.  
This has a refrigeration loop inside it to extract heat from the closed 
water loop that goes to the generator; the extracted heat can then go to 
building chilled water, or even an open loop (city cold water, then down 
the drain) if your building codes allow it.


The advantage of this system is that it can handle unreliable chilled 
water temperature and flow, with allowable source water temperatures as 
high as 85 F.  If your building water is really unreliable, you can even 
get an air-cooled Haskris - although your room A/C has to be able to 
handle the heat load in that case.


Contact me off-list if you want more information.  The system has been 
really reliable for me.


- Matt


On 7/24/14 11:53 AM, Andreas Förster wrote:

Dear all,

I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by 
chilled water supplied rather unreliably through the building 
infrastructure.  I was wondering what alternatives exist.


Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with 
alternative cooling solutions with me?


Thank you.


Andreas







--
Matthew Franklin, Ph. D.
Senior Scientist
New York Structural Biology Center
89 Convent Avenue, New York, NY 10027
(212) 939-0660 ext. 9374

Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Edward A. Berry]

Thermo scientific has air/water chillers. Google:
thermo scientific neslab merlin recirculating chillers
brings up the links.
We have one of these cooling an Oxford xcalibur.
It supplies circulating cold water under pressure which
we hook up where the house chilled water would go on
the water/waer heat exchanger.

On 07/24/2014 12:07 PM, Han Remaut wrote:

Dear Andreas,

we had a similar issue with our MicroMax 007, with a primary water/water 
chiller (ATC K3) in between the generator and a secondary inhouse water circuit.

After a year of reliable service the K3 would shut off occasionally and dump 
the 007 with a cooling error. We found that the solution to the issue was to 
place an additional pump directly in front of the K3. The issue being that the 
latter would temporarily shut off unless provided with a constant water 
pressure, which the water circuit wasn't giving apparently.

This has now been running fine. Another solution would be a water-air chiller 
to cool your 007, but in our case that was not an option due to building specs.

Hope this helps. I'm happy to provide more details if wanted.

Han


Han Remaut, PhD
Laboratory of Structural & Molecular Microbiology
VIB / Vrije Universiteit Brussel
Building E4, Pleinlaan 2
1050 Brussel

han.rem...@vib-vub.be 
tel. +32-2-629 1923 / +32-499 708050
http://www.vib.be/en/research/scientists/Pages/Han-Remaut-Lab.aspx


On 24 Jul 2014, at 17:53, Andreas Förster wrote:


Dear all,

I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by chilled water 
supplied rather unreliably through the building infrastructure.  I was 
wondering what alternatives exist.

Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with alternative cooling 
solutions with me?

Thank you.


Andreas




--
 Andreas Förster
Crystallization and X-ray Facility Manager
  Centre for Structural Biology
 Imperial College London

Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Daniel Picot]

Dear Andreas,
 We have a Hyfra water cooled system (VWK50) on our MicroMax 007, 
but  it is probably over-dimensioned
because it is also used by a Xstream equipment, a smaller dedicated 
cooler to the micromax could be better.

Daniel

Le 24/07/2014 17:53, Andreas Förster a écrit :

Dear all,

I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by 
chilled water supplied rather unreliably through the building 
infrastructure.  I was wondering what alternatives exist.


Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with 
alternative cooling solutions with me?


Thank you.


Andreas

Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Kris Tesh]

I would warn you that the K3 and K9 chillers have internal hoses which cannot 
tollerate water pressure above 125 psi.  We had a hose fail from the building 
chilled loop pressure.  So, be careful adding any pressure with a pump before 
the chiller...and maybe consider one after the chiller to pull the water 
through.
 
Kris

Kris F. Tesh, Ph. D.
Department of Biology and Biochemistry 
University of Houston



From: Han Remaut 
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK 
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling



Dear Andreas,  

we had a similar issue with our MicroMax 007, with a primary water/water 
chiller (ATC K3) in between the generator and a secondary inhouse water 
circuit.  

After a year of reliable service the K3 would shut off occasionally and dump 
the 007 with a cooling error. We found that the solution to the issue was to 
place an additional pump directly in front of the K3. The issue being that the 
latter would temporarily shut off unless provided with a constant water 
pressure, which the water circuit wasn't giving apparently.

This has now been running fine. Another solution would be a water-air chiller 
to cool your 007, but in our case that was not an option due to building specs. 

Hope this helps. I'm happy to provide more details if wanted. 

Han



Han Remaut, PhD
Laboratory of Structural & Molecular Microbiology
VIB / Vrije Universiteit Brussel
Building E4, Pleinlaan 2
1050 Brussel

han.rem...@vib-vub.be
tel. +32-2-629 1923 / +32-499 708050
http://www.vib.be/en/research/scientists/Pages/Han-Remaut-Lab.aspx 





On 24 Jul 2014, at 17:53, Andreas Förster wrote:

Dear all,
>
>I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by chilled 
>water supplied rather unreliably through the building infrastructure.  I was 
>wondering what alternatives exist.
>
>Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with alternative 
>cooling solutions with me?
>
>Thank you.
>
>
>Andreas
>
>
>
>
>-- 
> Andreas Förster
>Crystallization and X-ray Facility Manager
>  Centre for Structural Biology
> Imperial College London
>

Re: [ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Han Remaut]

Dear Andreas, 

we had a similar issue with our MicroMax 007, with a primary water/water 
chiller (ATC K3) in between the generator and a secondary inhouse water 
circuit.  

After a year of reliable service the K3 would shut off occasionally and dump 
the 007 with a cooling error. We found that the solution to the issue was to 
place an additional pump directly in front of the K3. The issue being that the 
latter would temporarily shut off unless provided with a constant water 
pressure, which the water circuit wasn't giving apparently.

This has now been running fine. Another solution would be a water-air chiller 
to cool your 007, but in our case that was not an option due to building specs. 

Hope this helps. I'm happy to provide more details if wanted. 

Han


Han Remaut, PhD
Laboratory of Structural & Molecular Microbiology
VIB / Vrije Universiteit Brussel
Building E4, Pleinlaan 2
1050 Brussel

han.rem...@vib-vub.be
tel. +32-2-629 1923 / +32-499 708050
http://www.vib.be/en/research/scientists/Pages/Han-Remaut-Lab.aspx 


On 24 Jul 2014, at 17:53, Andreas Förster wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by chilled 
> water supplied rather unreliably through the building infrastructure.  I was 
> wondering what alternatives exist.
> 
> Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with alternative 
> cooling solutions with me?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Andreas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  Andreas Förster
> Crystallization and X-ray Facility Manager
>   Centre for Structural Biology
>  Imperial College London

[ccp4bb] rigaku micromax 007 cooling

[Andreas Förster]

Dear all,

I have a Rigaku MicroMax 007 HF X-ray generator that is cooled by 
chilled water supplied rather unreliably through the building 
infrastructure.  I was wondering what alternatives exist.


Could other MicroMax 007 users share their experiences with alternative 
cooling solutions with me?


Thank you.


Andreas




--
  Andreas Förster
 Crystallization and X-ray Facility Manager
   Centre for Structural Biology
  Imperial College London