Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
Here's the summary and some own experimental data. First off all thank you all for your replies. trick 1: put a glass bottle filled with water between fiberoptics and the mirrors of your base (Isolde Le Trong) trick 2: suspend plates to allow air circulation, with bulb under plate scopes (Jose Antonio Cuesta_Seijo) Halogen driven fiberoptics tested ∆1.2 F ~ 0.6 ˚C (Matthew Franklin) Zeiss LED has too much diffuse light and warms up (Clemens Grimm) Zeiss LED used at Diamond beamlines are very good (Sandy James) (I'm wondering if both of you had different bases, mine will have a mirror to focus the LED light where I want it to be) And here my own tests: I have a Zeiss Stemi2000 right now mainly to test the LED light, the LEDs are in the base and can't be moved around. In this case the contrast & light is sufficient to visualize crystals and mount them. However the glass above the LED's really gets warm starting temperature was 20.9 ˚C and after 1 hour it stayed at 26.3 ˚C. Since the model I will most likely purchase will have a mirror, I assume heating should not be as dramatic, and keep in mind this will be only the mounting microscope with 50x magnification. The highend model I decided to go for fiberoptics, mainly because of brightness to take pictures etc (100x). I tried one of our neighbouring labs fiberoptics microscope and there was an increase over an hour of 0.3˚C compared to the surrounding environment. I'm expecting the smaller scope to arrive within the next 2-3 weeks and I'll send an update on the thermal aspects to the board then. Hope this information is useful to the community, Jürgen - Jürgen Bosch Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, W8708 615 North Wolfe Street Baltimore, MD 21205 Phone: +1-410-614-4742 Fax: +1-410-955-3655 Web: http://faculty.jhsph.edu/default.cfm?faculty_id=2101
Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
On Jan 21, 2009, at 6:35 PM, matthew.frank...@imclone.com wrote: My light source is halogen, but it's coupled to the microscope through a fiber optic light pipe. I know from experience that the older model scopes with the bulb right in the base get quite warm after they've been on for a while. I'm pretty sure my fiber optic setup can be retrofitted to most microscopes... We have a Olympus microscope with fiber optic light source. We intentionally purchased this because of past experiences with standard bases heating up. So far, our experience is similar to Matt's in that the base rarely heats up to any significant degree. Jeff Jeffrey Wilson, Ph.D. University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Molecular Genetics Department 231 Albert Sabin Way MSB 3109A Cincinnati, OH 45267-0524 (513) 558-1360
Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
We have both LED and cold light sources attached to our Zeiss Stemi microscopes on the beamlines at Diamond. There was some argument about not using LED lights however the solution from Zeiss is very good allowing different sections of LEDs to be used which can be moved around. This allows crystal faces to be specifically highlighted and makes crystal visualisation simple. If you were wanting to take photos of protein crystals I would probably favour a cold light source though. This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached to the e-mail. Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd. Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message. Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom -- Scanned by iCritical.
Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
We have tested the Zeiss LED plate with hanging and sitting drop trays and found it it unsuitable for looking at crystals. The reason is the really low contrast with this kind of diffuse illumination. Obviously, contrast is generated by refraction at crystal/mother liquor interfaces and this effect diminishes with diffuse light coming from a range of incidence angles. Clemens Zitat von Jürgen Bosch : Here are some numbers Matthew.Franklin: Okay. Start: 71.9 F Finish: 73.1 F Temperature measured with thermocouple Scotch-taped to the center of the microscope stage, underneath an empty 96-well plate. Room thermostat set to 70. I should have mentioned that I was thinking about fiberoptics and not the halogen light directly under the tray. Still I always had the impression that there's a significant temperature difference when using the fiberoptics for a long time e.g when mounting crystals. The microscope in question is a Zeiss and the $ difference between LED & halogen is about 2.5K in favour of the LED system. I have seen the LED version and it seemed good to me - but I have not looked at crystal trays of course. I'll post a summary in a few days. Thanks for all your replies so far, Jürgen - Jürgen Bosch Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, W8708 615 North Wolfe Street Baltimore, MD 21205 Phone: +1-410-614-4742 Fax: +1-410-955-3655
Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
Here are some numbers Matthew.Franklin: Okay. Start: 71.9 F Finish: 73.1 F Temperature measured with thermocouple Scotch-taped to the center of the microscope stage, underneath an empty 96-well plate. Room thermostat set to 70. I should have mentioned that I was thinking about fiberoptics and not the halogen light directly under the tray. Still I always had the impression that there's a significant temperature difference when using the fiberoptics for a long time e.g when mounting crystals. The microscope in question is a Zeiss and the $ difference between LED & halogen is about 2.5K in favour of the LED system. I have seen the LED version and it seemed good to me - but I have not looked at crystal trays of course. I'll post a summary in a few days. Thanks for all your replies so far, Jürgen - Jürgen Bosch Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, W8708 615 North Wolfe Street Baltimore, MD 21205 Phone: +1-410-614-4742 Fax: +1-410-955-3655
Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
Dear Jürgen, Unless you have to spend your money on a microscope immedeately, it is best to evaluate demo instruments from different vendors on site at the same time. All vendors will give you a demo instrument for a few hours to several days. The new Olympus LED instruments are excellent on paper, brighter than the halogen lamps, and produce virtually no heat detectable by hand. However, the new LED-containing base produces a diffuse light on the sample, compared to the focused beam of the old halogen lamp bases. In my opinion, the performance of the LED-containing base is the same or better of a halogen lamp-containing base in the highly oblique and dark field modes. In the bright field mode, the diffuse illumination of the LED base results in "flattening" of the object. Perhaps, our Olympus demo instrument (with a LED base) had flaws, but it performed worse than an older generation Nikon instrument (halogen lamp) with an objective of a smaller aperture. Petr - Petr Leiman École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) Cubotron/BSP-415 CH-1015 Lausanne Switzerland - Original Message - From: "Jürgen Bosch" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:50 PM Subject: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ? Hi there, *warning, reading beyond this line might expose you to non CCP4 related topics* anybody out there who could do the following experiment: Turn on your microscope and measure the temperature after 30 minutes where you would place your precious crystal tray. In particular I'm interested in LED versus Halogen driven models. Is there anybody out there who would like to comment on LED driven microscopes for our purposes ? Thanks, Jürgen - Jürgen Bosch Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, W8708 615 North Wolfe Street Baltimore, MD 21205 Phone: +1-410-614-4742 Fax: +1-410-955-3655
Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
Jurgen, From your question I assume that you are having problems with the warming up of the crystal tray due to the microscope light. Did you consider the use of an external cold light source like the KL1500 LCD? I do not feel anything warming up. Which microscope are you using? The LED systems I have tried are not bright enough. Try them before you buy. Suggestion - request a demo to your supplier. Cheers, Joao João M. Dias, Ph. D. Ollmann Saphire Lab The Scripps Research Institute 10550 North Torrey Pines Rd. IMM-2 La Jolla, CA 92037 USA tel (858)784-8925 http://www.scripps.edu/~jmdias/ On Jan 21, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Jürgen Bosch wrote: Hi there, *warning, reading beyond this line might expose you to non CCP4 related topics* anybody out there who could do the following experiment: Turn on your microscope and measure the temperature after 30 minutes where you would place your precious crystal tray. In particular I'm interested in LED versus Halogen driven models. Is there anybody out there who would like to comment on LED driven microscopes for our purposes ? Thanks, Jürgen - Jürgen Bosch Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, W8708 615 North Wolfe Street Baltimore, MD 21205 Phone: +1-410-614-4742 Fax: +1-410-955-3655
Re: [ccp4bb] temperature after 30 minutes using microscopes ?
CCP4 bulletin board wrote on 01/21/2009 05:50:13 PM: > Hi there, > *warning, reading beyond this line might expose you to non CCP4 > related topics* > > anybody out there who could do the following experiment: > Turn on your microscope and measure the temperature after 30 minutes > where you would place your precious crystal tray. > Okay. Start: 71.9 F Finish: 73.1 F Temperature measured with thermocouple Scotch-taped to the center of the microscope stage, underneath an empty 96-well plate. Room thermostat set to 70. > In particular I'm interested in LED versus Halogen driven models. > My light source is halogen, but it's coupled to the microscope through a fiber optic light pipe. I know from experience that the older model scopes with the bulb right in the base get quite warm after they've been on for a while. I'm pretty sure my fiber optic setup can be retrofitted to most microscopes... - Matt -- Matthew Franklin , Ph.D. Senior Scientist, ImClone Systems 180 Varick Street, 6th floor New York, NY 10014 phone:(917)606-4116 fax:(212)645-2054 Confidentiality Note: This e-mail, and any attachment to it, contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity named on the e-mail. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that reading it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately return it to the sender and delete it from your system. Thank you.
