Re: Any word on the Multics revival front?

[COURYHOUSE]

I have front panels  for  Honeywell huge  black and  white   with tons of  
tiny switches and leds.
 
kind of like   these
http://www.glennsmuseum.com/components/pics/multics_panel_cu2.jpg
 
http://www.glennsmuseum.com/components/pics/multics_panel_cu1.jpg
 
some have more white areas   is from a   6000?  dps8? 8000?
 
I know   some of the large Honeywell machines  were   used for MULTICS  but 
trying to  figure what panels which  machines  it was  run on as an op sys. 
 
Guess I should know  more as   my computer business  was  2 miles  away 
from the plant these were made in  in phx but  I was too busy working on and  
selling HP stuff..
 
I have  tried to  find a site that  had a definitive group  of the panels 
on it to use as an ID tool. Oddly  it  seems  we  have 2 of  each type and as 
I remember  there are  4 or 5 large  ones to a set? ( plus  some small 
ones)  
 
Drop me a  note! any  help appreciated  Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ 
(http://www.smecc.org)  . 
 
 



In a message dated 3/11/2016 10:11:43 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
charles.unix@gmail.com writes:

On Fri,  Mar 11, 2016me at 9:02 PM, jwsmobile   wrote:

>
>
> On 3/11/2016 8:51 PM, Zane Healy  wrote:
>
>> On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux   
wrote:
>>>
>>> OI hadn't  checked on Multics progress in quite a while.  Yesterday  I
>>> discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator  at:
>>>
>>>  https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
>>>
>>> is far  enough along to boot Multics.  I thought some folks on this  
list
>>> might be interested in it.
>>>
>>  What I’d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the  wild.
>> That’s what I’d personally really like to boot on the  emulator.  I 
used to
>> be able configure all the IOP’s, IOM’s,  CPU’s, etc. from memory, power 
them
>> up, and boot  GCOS-8.
>>
>> Zane
>>
> The problem with GCOS  is that there isn't a history I know of that it was
> anything but  Honeywells property.  A lot of negotiation and persistence 
on
> the  part of many folks went to getting it to where the Multics code could
>  be released.  And it was lucky to be saved @ MIT and the CHM with
>  donations.
>
> I don't know of anyone with GCOS when it has been  mentioned over the
> history of the discussions about this  hardware.
>
> Many thanks to Harry and Charles for writing the  emulator, and to the
> others reviving the system.
>
> I  plan to have a 6180 panel at VCF West and an original 645 board from  
the
> first Multics system for show and tell.
>
>  thanks
> Jim
>
> I was tentatively planning to be at VCF  West with a Multics emulation, 
and
as much real hardware as I can chase  down (I/O selectric OPCON, maybe a
tape drive, a line printer,  ?)

Maybe we can hook up a beaglebone to your 6180 panel?

--  Charles

Re: today's haul

[Lyle Bickley]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:49:51 -0600
"Jay West"  wrote:

> A system I have always wanted (spent much of my career working on) has
> finally been acquired.
> 
>  
> 
> A Prime (Pr1me) model 2250 aka "rabbit". The cpu chassis is in the
> foreground. I do have the bezels (they were removed for shipping). In
> the background you can see the rebadged cipher F880 in the same type
> of rack that will sit next to it.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02/25084207344
> 
>  
> 
> I'm told it has two 158mb priams, an ics1, and either 1mb or 2mb ram.
> Will post more pics when I get around to opening it up.

Congratulations/terrific, Jay!!!

Prime was a fun/useful system - Wells Fargo (WF) used them to do
quantitative analysis "in the day". I ran the quant group at Fidelity
and we used an 11/70 for our quant (market models, bond arbitrage,
etc.). We had an ongoing working relationship with WF.

Cheers,
Lyle


-- 
73  AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

Re: Any word on the Multics revival front?

[Charles Anthony]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:02 PM, jwsmobile  wrote:

>
>
> On 3/11/2016 8:51 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
>
>> On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux  wrote:
>>>
>>> OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while.  Yesterday I
>>> discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
>>>
>>> https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
>>>
>>> is far enough along to boot Multics.  I thought some folks on this list
>>> might be interested in it.
>>>
>> What I’d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild.
>> That’s what I’d personally really like to boot on the emulator.  I used to
>> be able configure all the IOP’s, IOM’s, CPU’s, etc. from memory, power them
>> up, and boot GCOS-8.
>>
>> Zane
>>
> The problem with GCOS is that there isn't a history I know of that it was
> anything but Honeywells property.  A lot of negotiation and persistence on
> the part of many folks went to getting it to where the Multics code could
> be released.  And it was lucky to be saved @ MIT and the CHM with
> donations.
>
> I don't know of anyone with GCOS when it has been mentioned over the
> history of the discussions about this hardware.
>
> Many thanks to Harry and Charles for writing the emulator, and to the
> others reviving the system.
>
> I plan to have a 6180 panel at VCF West and an original 645 board from the
> first Multics system for show and tell.
>
> thanks
> Jim
>
> I was tentatively planning to be at VCF West with a Multics emulation, and
as much real hardware as I can chase down (I/O selectric OPCON, maybe a
tape drive, a line printer, ?)

Maybe we can hook up a beaglebone to your 6180 panel?

-- Charles

Re: Any word on the Multics revival front?

[jwsmobile]

On 3/11/2016 8:51 PM, Zane Healy wrote:

On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux  wrote:

OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while.  Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:

https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/

is far enough along to boot Multics.  I thought some folks on this list
might be interested in it.

What I’d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild.  That’s 
what I’d personally really like to boot on the emulator.  I used to be able 
configure all the IOP’s, IOM’s, CPU’s, etc. from memory, power them up, and 
boot GCOS-8.

Zane
The problem with GCOS is that there isn't a history I know of that it 
was anything but Honeywells property.  A lot of negotiation and 
persistence on the part of many folks went to getting it to where the 
Multics code could be released.  And it was lucky to be saved @ MIT and 
the CHM with  donations.


I don't know of anyone with GCOS when it has been mentioned over the 
history of the discussions about this hardware.


Many thanks to Harry and Charles for writing the emulator, and to the 
others reviving the system.


I plan to have a 6180 panel at VCF West and an original 645 board from 
the first Multics system for show and tell.


thanks
Jim

Re: Any word on the Multics revival front?

[Zane Healy]

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux  wrote:
> 
> OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while.  Yesterday I
> discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
> 
>https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
> 
> is far enough along to boot Multics.  I thought some folks on this list
> might be interested in it.

What I’d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild.  That’s 
what I’d personally really like to boot on the emulator.  I used to be able 
configure all the IOP’s, IOM’s, CPU’s, etc. from memory, power them up, and 
boot GCOS-8.  

Zane

Re: today's haul

[Eric Christopherson]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016, Jay West wrote:
> A system I have always wanted (spent much of my career working on) has
> finally been acquired.
> 
>  
> 
> A Prime (Pr1me) model 2250 aka "rabbit". The cpu chassis is in the
> foreground. I do have the bezels (they were removed for shipping). In the
> background you can see the rebadged cipher F880 in the same type of rack
> that will sit next to it.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02/25084207344
> 
>  
> 
> I'm told it has two 158mb priams, an ics1, and either 1mb or 2mb ram. Will
> post more pics when I get around to opening it up.

Excellent!

-- 
Eric Christopherson

today's haul

[Jay West]

A system I have always wanted (spent much of my career working on) has
finally been acquired.

 

A Prime (Pr1me) model 2250 aka "rabbit". The cpu chassis is in the
foreground. I do have the bezels (they were removed for shipping). In the
background you can see the rebadged cipher F880 in the same type of rack
that will sit next to it.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638@N02/25084207344

 

I'm told it has two 158mb priams, an ics1, and either 1mb or 2mb ram. Will
post more pics when I get around to opening it up.

 

Best,

 

J

 

 

Re: Free file downloads

[drlegendre .]

oldergeeks is great, thanks for posting this..

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:

> Thank you!
>
> m
> - Original Message -
> From: "Cindy Croxton" 
> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 1:23 AM
> Subject: Free file downloads
>
>
> >I just found this download site. It includes drivers, games, etc., and
> many
> > programs and drivers for Win NT and up, Linux, and Mac. No spyware or
> > crapware, just good files.
> >
> > Maybe not old compared to a lot of posts here, but there are drivers for
> > many very old cards for very old Win systems.
> >
> > http://www.oldergeeks.com/downloads/index.php
> >
> >
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

[Jerome H. Fine]

>On Thursday, February 10th, 2016 at 12:51:30 - 0500, Richard Cini wrote:


Is there a listing somewhere of what versions of RT-11 work with which CPUs? 
The Heath H11 uses the LSI-11 which I think is an 11/03 equivalent. Is there a 
specific version (or maximum version) designed for this CPU?

I tried v4 using a method I found on-line (modifying with SIMH to make it 
bootable as a TU58 image rather than an RK) but it doesn't work so I wanted to 
first eliminate the system version as the potential problem.


Sorry for the delay in my answer.  I was out of town for the last
36 hours, so I just noticed this thread.

For maximum flexibility, I would suggest V05.03 of RT-11.  It is
just about the most widely available and has the benefit of probably
being completely legal to use on a non-commercial basis with SimH.

V04.00 of RT-11 will probably run equally well, but obviously
without some of the many additional features found in V05.03
of RT-11.  In addition, you might want to check even later
versions of RT-11, all of which still run on a PDP-11/03 CPU.

Under V05.03 of RT-11, you can use either distributed
Unmapped Monitor, RT11SJ or RT11FB.  The size will be
larger than from V04.00 of RT-11, but I suggest that the
additional features are more than worth while.  Since you
have all 32 KW or memory or 64 KB, you will not have
any problem booting RT-11.

If you have any specific questions using Ersatz-11 with
a PDP-11/03, just ask.  That will make sure that the
configuration and the boot device is set up correctly.

Just for practice, you might try using Ersatz-11 with V05.03
of RT-11 with SET  CPU 03.  You will find that Ersatz-11
is trivial to use and that it supports emulation of all types of
disk drives including TU-58, RK05, RL02 and SCSI, named,
respectively, DD:, RK:, DL: and DU:, the same as DEC names
them.  Be warned that after you practice with Ersatz-11, you
may find that an LSI-11, also called a PDP-11/03, is a bit
slower than running with Ersatz-11, even on a 486.  My
experience with just a 750 MHz Pentium III is that RT-11
runs about 15 times as fast as a PDP-11/93.  On a current
I7 from Intel, I expect speeds more than 100 times as fast
as a PDP-11/93.

If you provide some of the information requested below, a
version of RT-11 might be suggested which is a better fit.
Otherwise, my assumption at present is that you want to
use RT-11 since it is the only reasonable choice out of
RT-11, RSX-11 and RSTS/E, although I am reasonably
sure that RSTS/E can't run on a PDP-11/03.  Further, you
want to run RT-11 to be able to show that you can run
RT-11 on the PDP-11/03 hardware that you have.  That
is quite different from the original reason a PDP-11/03
system was purchased, namely to run specific application
programs which were able to run under RT-11.  If I
am incorrect, please let me know and advise otherwise.

It does sound like you have the Heath Kit version of the hardware.
If so, then you probably don't have a hard disk drive.  A complete
list of the actual hardware will be helpful.  In addition, even more
important from my point of view is why you want to use the hardware
that you have to run RT-11 (most likely because it will not run anything
else very easily) and then which specific application programs will be
run after you are successful in getting RT-11 to run.  Just as important
is how you will interface with the PDP-11/03 and move the results
from the PDP-11/03 to either printed output or a system that can
share the results via the internet.

Jerome Fine

Re: VMS 4.4 source code microfiche

[devin davison]

Well, I have the scanner and the time, I am going to put in online anyways.
It may not be the full source, but perhaps it will come in handy for
someone else.
 I only spent a few minutes scanning those 12 pages. It was a just a quick
initial run of the scanner to learn how to operate it and save the images.
Once i get it all scanned, I will post a link to it.

--Devin

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Antonio Carlini 
wrote:

> On 12/03/16 00:30, devin davison wrote:
>
>> I made a trip to the library today and set up the reader. Expensive nice
>> piece of equipment, however it is going to take a long time to scan it
>> all.
>> I am still uncertain as to weather this is the source or the compiler
>> output, as some people here suggested it may be.
>>
>
> I believe various intelligence and military customers could get source
> distributions.
> Those were not on fiche: they were on removable packs or tapes. These kits
> were (AFAIK)
> built on demand. Even those were not (again AFAIK) complete and almost
> certainly would
> not have included a build environment (i.e. all the procedures needed to
> produce a build).
> Such source kits were not cheap.
>
> You don't have that. You have source listings.
>
>   Even with this full set,
>> is there not enough to build the entire system?
>>
>
> No
>
>Was the full source ever
>> released?
>>
>
> Some source was but not to normal customers and I doubt that it was the
> full source.
>
>The plan is to scan it all and get it archived. The scanner
>> seems to be doing a good job. If anyone has other microfiche that would go
>> well along with this set, and would be willing to mail them, I know how to
>> work the scanner now and can make a digital copy.
>>
>> here are the first 12 pages i scanned off the first sheet.
>>
>
> Those are source listings: they are the output of the compiler.
>
> The quality looks very good. If you have any manuals on fiche (FMPS etc.)
> it would be interesting to see how those turn out.
>
> Out of interest, how long did it take to produce those 12 pages?
>
> Antonio
>
> --
> Antonio Carlini
> arcarl...@iee.org
>
>

RE: tops20 assembly tutorials

[Rich Alderson]

From: David Griffith
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:48 PM

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, Rich Alderson wrote:

>> Exactly *where* are you trying to run this program?  On a kn10-kl (the
>> extended KL-10 CPU defined by klh10), on a SimH KS-10, or on a real CPU
>> (KL, KS, or Toad)?

> It's a kn10-kl.  I'm using the Panda distribution as downloaded from 
> http://panda.trailing-edge.com/.

It's been so long since I ran that that I had to reload it on my Linux
box.  (I've been using klh10 for Tops-10 development for years now.)

I booted MRC's Panda disk image, cut&pasted the program into a file on
the disk (COPY TTY: HACK.MAC  ^Z) then DEBUG HACK and stepped
through past the first LITES%.  There was no complaint about the CIRC.

Capture a complete log and mail it to me.  I'll see if I can see what's
stepping on you.

Rich

Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Antonio Carlini]

On 11/03/16 23:07, Dave Wade wrote:

I have a new scanner and am happy to do some scanning as well. Perhaps we could 
split the work up...



Non-destructively scanning DECdirect catalogues or SOCs would be very 
time-consuming,
although if you have access to one of those copiers that is intended to 
scan books and can go

right to the edge, then that would produce good results.

I don't have one of those ... :-(

--
Antonio Carlini
arcarl...@iee.org

Re: VMS 4.4 source code microfiche

[Antonio Carlini]

On 12/03/16 00:30, devin davison wrote:

I made a trip to the library today and set up the reader. Expensive nice
piece of equipment, however it is going to take a long time to scan it all.
I am still uncertain as to weather this is the source or the compiler
output, as some people here suggested it may be.


I believe various intelligence and military customers could get source 
distributions.
Those were not on fiche: they were on removable packs or tapes. These 
kits were (AFAIK)
built on demand. Even those were not (again AFAIK) complete and almost 
certainly would
not have included a build environment (i.e. all the procedures needed to 
produce a build).

Such source kits were not cheap.

You don't have that. You have source listings.


  Even with this full set,
is there not enough to build the entire system?


No


   Was the full source ever
released?


Some source was but not to normal customers and I doubt that it was the 
full source.



   The plan is to scan it all and get it archived. The scanner
seems to be doing a good job. If anyone has other microfiche that would go
well along with this set, and would be willing to mail them, I know how to
work the scanner now and can make a digital copy.

here are the first 12 pages i scanned off the first sheet.


Those are source listings: they are the output of the compiler.

The quality looks very good. If you have any manuals on fiche (FMPS etc.)
it would be interesting to see how those turn out.

Out of interest, how long did it take to produce those 12 pages?

Antonio

--
Antonio Carlini
arcarl...@iee.org

Re: VMS 4.4 source code microfiche

[devin davison]

I made a trip to the library today and set up the reader. Expensive nice
piece of equipment, however it is going to take a long time to scan it all.
I am still uncertain as to weather this is the source or the compiler
output, as some people here suggested it may be.  Even with this full set,
is there not enough to build the entire system?  Was the full source ever
released?  The plan is to scan it all and get it archived. The scanner
seems to be doing a good job. If anyone has other microfiche that would go
well along with this set, and would be willing to mail them, I know how to
work the scanner now and can make a digital copy.

here are the first 12 pages i scanned off the first sheet.

https://www.slashflash.info/~devin/Uploads/images/vms_fiche/

--Devin

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 4:03 PM, John H. Reinhardt  wrote:

>
> On 3/9/2016 3:44 PM, devin davison wrote:
>
>> I do not know much at all about what it would take to compile this into a
>> working system. My first step is going to be to get over to the library
>> and
>> get everything into a digital format. Ill be putting everything i scan up
>> online.
>>
>>
> If by "working system" you mean a fully functional (Open)VMS, then you
> won't. The source code listings on fiche (or CD/DVD) contain the compiler
> listings for many parts of Open)VMS, but not all. They also don't have the
> utilities needed in the highly complex toolchain that is used to create a
> working (Open)VMS system.  They were meant for those who do device driver
> and internal support to be able to find areas in the code to debug. They
> were not meant to be able to build a working system. If you want to know
> how a certain system service works or device driver or utility, they are
> great.
>
>
> Thank you in advance for putting it online (although it's possible HP
> might have something to say about it, but given the version, hopefully not).
>
> If there is a copy of the source on CD that someone can spare that would be
>> great, I was unaware any newer versions of the source code were
>> distributed
>> on newer formats such as CD.
>>
>
> As others have said, (although I think it was V6.0 that started CD, but I
> could be quite wrong) the current format for source listings is CD (DVD for
> the 8.x IA64).  I have several from my stint at HP (as an Oracle DBA
> contractor, unfortunately not in OpenVMS support but you'd be surprised at
> how cheap you can buy things as an employee.)
>
> --Devin
>>
>
> John H. Reinhardt
>

RE: tops20 assembly tutorials

[David Griffith]

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016, Rich Alderson wrote:


From: David Griffith
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 4:14 PM


On Tue, 8 Mar 2016, Rich Alderson wrote:



From: David Griffith
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:53 PM



Specifically I'm trying to build and run this:



 CIRC 2,-^D18



Where did this code come from?



I got it from Jan deRie when I asked about it on a Youtube video[1]
showing the Panda Display in action.


Something just occurred to me.

Exactly *where* are you trying to run this program?  On a kn10-kl (the
extended KL-10 CPU defined by klh10), on a SimH KS-10, or on a real CPU
(KL, KS, or Toad)?

I just had a look at the klh10 sources and find that Ken Harrenstien
added the CIRC instruction to his KL emulation as well as his KS
emulation in 2002.  If you're running any klh10-based emulation, that
instruction ought to work.  It would only work on MIT-specific real
hardware.


It's a kn10-kl.  I'm using the Panda distribution as downloaded from 
http://panda.trailing-edge.com/.


--
David Griffith
d...@661.org

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Dave Wade]

I have a new scanner and am happy to do some scanning as well. Perhaps we could 
split the work up...

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Robert
> Jarratt
> Sent: 11 March 2016 22:59
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> 
> Subject: RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> Newmarket UK
> 
> If you are happy to scan them (non-destructively) then that would be great!
> If it is not too many shelf-feet then I would be interested in keeping at 
> least
> some of them, I can always give them to Jim Austin if they are too much.
> 
> Adrian, if you are prepared to ship them (along with the other bits and pieces
> we have been talking about) I am happy to pay the p&p, although it might
> make more sense to send the manuals direct to Mark.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mark
> > Wickens
> > Sent: 11 March 2016 20:42
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > 
> > Subject: RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> > Newmarket UK
> >
> > If we can arrange for the manuals to be saved I am happy to scan them
> > in and make them available to bitsavers. After that I am happy for
> > them to go to whoever wants the paper copies. Maybe at the next DEC
> > Legacy (which it looks like will be some time in October now)!
> >
> > Regards, Mark
> > On 11 Mar 2016 20:33, "Dave G4UGM"  wrote:
> >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > Adrian Graham
> > > > Sent: 11 March 2016 17:40
> > > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > > 
> > > > Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> > > > Newmarket UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/03/2016 16:50, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals!
> > > > > Which version of VMS?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > They're in a sales office and I forgot about them when you visited
> > > otherwise
> > > > you could've taken them. I'm guessing at the versions but it'll
> > > > probably
> > > be
> > > > VMS 5.5 and RSTS4 but I can check on Monday.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think it was Rob that visited, I have just installed VMS 5.5 on a
> > > MicroVax3100 which I think came from you (perhaps Rob).
> > > There doesn't seem to be a proper set of manuals on the net anywhere
> > > so they would be very useful.
> > > How many feet of VMS manuals are there?
> > >
> > > Dave
> > > G4UGM
> > >
> > >
> > > > A
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> -Original Message-
> > > > >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf
> > > > >> Of Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
> > > > >> Sent: 11 March 2016 16:23
> > > > >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect
> > > > >> books, Newmarket UK
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>> We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a
> > > > >>> full bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants
> > > > >>> to take them away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here
> > > > >>> I didn't realise there was a shelf of RSTS manuals!
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask:
> > > > >> What version of the operating systems? And are they manuals
> > > > >> that are already on BitSavers, if they're not please scan them?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >> Christian
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
> > > > >> STCKON08DS0
> > > > >> Contact information available upon request.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Adrian/Witchy
> > > > Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> > > > Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> > > > collection?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Robert Jarratt]

If you are happy to scan them (non-destructively) then that would be great! If 
it is not too many shelf-feet then I would be interested in keeping at least 
some of them, I can always give them to Jim Austin if they are too much.

Adrian, if you are prepared to ship them (along with the other bits and pieces 
we have been talking about) I am happy to pay the p&p, although it might make 
more sense to send the manuals direct to Mark.

Regards

Rob

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mark
> Wickens
> Sent: 11 March 2016 20:42
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> Newmarket UK
> 
> If we can arrange for the manuals to be saved I am happy to scan them in and
> make them available to bitsavers. After that I am happy for them to go to
> whoever wants the paper copies. Maybe at the next DEC Legacy (which it
> looks like will be some time in October now)!
> 
> Regards, Mark
> On 11 Mar 2016 20:33, "Dave G4UGM"  wrote:
> 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> > > Adrian Graham
> > > Sent: 11 March 2016 17:40
> > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > 
> > > Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> > > Newmarket UK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/03/2016 16:50, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals! Which
> > > > version of VMS?
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > >
> > > They're in a sales office and I forgot about them when you visited
> > otherwise
> > > you could've taken them. I'm guessing at the versions but it'll
> > > probably
> > be
> > > VMS 5.5 and RSTS4 but I can check on Monday.
> > >
> >
> > I think it was Rob that visited, I have just installed VMS 5.5 on a
> > MicroVax3100 which I think came from you (perhaps Rob).
> > There doesn't seem to be a proper set of manuals on the net anywhere
> > so they would be very useful.
> > How many feet of VMS manuals are there?
> >
> > Dave
> > G4UGM
> >
> >
> > > A
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >> -Original Message-
> > > >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> > > >> Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
> > > >> Sent: 11 March 2016 16:23
> > > >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > >> 
> > > >> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect
> > > >> books, Newmarket UK
> > > >>
> > > >> On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham
> > > >> 
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>> We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a
> > > >>> full bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants
> > > >>> to take them away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here I
> > > >>> didn't realise there was a shelf of RSTS manuals!
> > > >>>
> > > >> I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask: What
> > > >> version of the operating systems? And are they manuals that are
> > > >> already on BitSavers, if they're not please scan them?
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Christian
> > > >> --
> > > >> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
> > > >> STCKON08DS0
> > > >> Contact information available upon request.
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Adrian/Witchy
> > > Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> > > Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> > > collection?
> > >
> >
> >
> >

Panels Update - Relese Notes 8/e (A and B)

[Rod Smallwood]

*_Relese Notes 8/e (A and B)


Drilling

_*1. The keylock hole has been pre drilled  to make sure the art work 
lines up


1.1  This hole has not been beveled inside as the method of doing it has
  only just been devised and missed the panel run.
  However the fix is not difficult. A fine grit conical grinding 
wheel does the job with no damage to the panel.



2. The switch spindle hole has not been predrilled due to the following 
issue:


2.1  DEC did an ECO to replace the selector switch.

Instead of  six positions  starting at 12 o'clock and steps 
of 36deg
anticlockwise going  to  6 o'clock. (A type panel) They 
used a switch that started at 15deg
anti clockwise from top centre (12 o'clock)  and that goes 
in 30deg steps finishing 15deg short

of bottom centre (6 o'clock ).
Now the hole position no longer lies on the vertical line 
between top centre and bottom centre.
Its offset to the right due to the crossing position having 
moved due to the change of angle.


They then did something strange. They redrew the top and 
bottom lines between the 15deg position
and what would have been the circle crossing point of the 
original descending vertical line. That made it worse. In the end they 
just drilled the hole very oversize and hid the line under the skirt of 
the knob.


I only have a key and lamp board for an A type panel so I 
can't tell if when they changed to the new
switch they moved it to the right to take care of the 
change of angle.


So for  B type I chose to draw the lines at the correct 
angles.
A switch spindle located at the intersection of the lines 
would then move through the correct angles


 You can now  drill the hole  to suit your spindle position
Rod Smallwood

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Paul Koning]

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 4:31 PM, John H. Reinhardt  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 3/11/2016 4:05 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mar 11, 2016, at 3:50 PM, John H. Reinhardt  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> SOC is the DEC "Systems and Options Catalog"  Great stuff for research on 
>>> when parts were available, what options were considered supported for 
>>> systems and all around good times.  They were usually thick (200-300 pages 
>>> at least in the later VAX era) and came out quarterly (?).  Would be a 
>>> handful to scan, but oh so nice to have.
>> 
>> You mean the Option/Module List, from Dick Best?  There are a number of 
>> issues of that (1973 to 1975, and one from 1983) on Bitsavers already.  An 
>> issue close to those dates is perhaps not all that interesting; one from a 
>> significantly different date would be quite a find.
> 
> These were catalogs from DEC.  Here's one example that I did find on 
> Bitsavers  
> 
> 
> There might be more of them available than I had thought...
> 
> I didn't know about the lists from Dick Best. I will have to check them out.

Sounds different then.  The Option/Module List was an internal DEC document, 
not something meant for outsiders to see.

paul

Panels Update - Shipment Alert

[Rod Smallwood]

Hi Guys
 A shipment of PDP-8/e (A and B) panels went out to-day.
Tracking numbers will be sent to customers on Monday

Next up 8/f and 8/m.

New orders for PDP-8/e (A and B) ,  8/f and 8/m  will be accepted when 
we have free stock.


Rod Smallwood

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Paul Koning]

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 3:50 PM, John H. Reinhardt  
> wrote:
> 
> SOC is the DEC "Systems and Options Catalog"  Great stuff for research on 
> when parts were available, what options were considered supported for systems 
> and all around good times.  They were usually thick (200-300 pages at least 
> in the later VAX era) and came out quarterly (?).  Would be a handful to 
> scan, but oh so nice to have.

You mean the Option/Module List, from Dick Best?  There are a number of issues 
of that (1973 to 1975, and one from 1983) on Bitsavers already.  An issue close 
to those dates is perhaps not all that interesting; one from a significantly 
different date would be quite a find.

paul

RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Mark Wickens]

If we can arrange for the manuals to be saved I am happy to scan them in
and make them available to bitsavers. After that I am happy for them to go
to whoever wants the paper copies. Maybe at the next DEC Legacy (which it
looks like will be some time in October now)!

Regards, Mark
On 11 Mar 2016 20:33, "Dave G4UGM"  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian
> > Graham
> > Sent: 11 March 2016 17:40
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > 
> > Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> > Newmarket UK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/03/2016 16:50, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
> >
> > > How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals! Which
> > > version of VMS?
> > >
> > > Dave
> >
> > They're in a sales office and I forgot about them when you visited
> otherwise
> > you could've taken them. I'm guessing at the versions but it'll probably
> be
> > VMS 5.5 and RSTS4 but I can check on Monday.
> >
>
> I think it was Rob that visited, I have just installed VMS 5.5 on a
> MicroVax3100 which I think came from you (perhaps Rob).
> There doesn't seem to be a proper set of manuals on the net anywhere so
> they
> would be very useful.
> How many feet of VMS manuals are there?
>
> Dave
> G4UGM
>
>
> > A
> >
> >
> > >
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> > >> Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
> > >> Sent: 11 March 2016 16:23
> > >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > >> 
> > >> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> > >> Newmarket UK
> > >>
> > >> On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham 
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full
> > >>> bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take
> > >>> them away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't
> > >>> realise there was a shelf of RSTS manuals!
> > >>>
> > >> I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask: What
> > >> version of the operating systems? And are they manuals that are
> > >> already on BitSavers, if they're not please scan them?
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Christian
> > >> --
> > >> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
> > >> STCKON08DS0
> > >> Contact information available upon request.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Adrian/Witchy
> > Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> > Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> > collection?
> >
>
>
>

RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Dave G4UGM]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian
> Graham
> Sent: 11 March 2016 17:40
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> Newmarket UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/03/2016 16:50, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
> 
> > How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals! Which
> > version of VMS?
> >
> > Dave
> 
> They're in a sales office and I forgot about them when you visited
otherwise
> you could've taken them. I'm guessing at the versions but it'll probably
be
> VMS 5.5 and RSTS4 but I can check on Monday.
> 

I think it was Rob that visited, I have just installed VMS 5.5 on a
MicroVax3100 which I think came from you (perhaps Rob).
There doesn't seem to be a proper set of manuals on the net anywhere so they
would be very useful.
How many feet of VMS manuals are there?

Dave
G4UGM


> A
> 
> 
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> >> Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
> >> Sent: 11 March 2016 16:23
> >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> >> Newmarket UK
> >>
> >> On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham 
> >> wrote:
> >>> We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full
> >>> bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take
> >>> them away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't
> >>> realise there was a shelf of RSTS manuals!
> >>>
> >> I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask: What
> >> version of the operating systems? And are they manuals that are
> >> already on BitSavers, if they're not please scan them?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Christian
> >> --
> >> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
> >> STCKON08DS0
> >> Contact information available upon request.
> >
> 
> --
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
> 

Re: Free file downloads

[Mike Stein]

Thank you!

m
- Original Message - 
From: "Cindy Croxton" 
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 1:23 AM
Subject: Free file downloads


>I just found this download site. It includes drivers, games, etc., and many
> programs and drivers for Win NT and up, Linux, and Mac. No spyware or
> crapware, just good files.
> 
> Maybe not old compared to a lot of posts here, but there are drivers for
> many very old cards for very old Win systems.
> 
> http://www.oldergeeks.com/downloads/index.php
> 
> 
> 
> Cindy
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: VMS 4.4 source code microfiche

[Antonio Carlini]

On 09/03/16 20:44, devin davison wrote:
I do not know much at all about what it would take to compile this 
into a working system. My first step is going to be to get over to the 
library and get everything into a digital format. Ill be putting 
everything i scan up online.


The last set of microfiche I have is V4.something. I think V5 is where 
they went to CD, but my earliest source listings are
V6.2. Scanning the fiche is a good thing to do, but turning that into a 
real digital format (i.e. a text file) will, I suspect, be

something of a challenge.

At one stage I thought I read that someone had gathered up all the old 
listings and put them on CD. Whether that's
survived inside DEC ... err ... HP (or maybe even VMS Software Inc.) I 
have no idea.


It will be interesting to see, in years to come, whether the microfiche 
survives longer than the listings CDs.
My expectation is that the fiche will last longer than the CDs, that the 
CDs will last longer than the last working
CD reader, that the fiche will be trivially readable hundreds of years 
from now (since a reader is fairly low tech)
and (probably) the contents of the listings CDs will be readable forever 
(once they make it onto the internet ...)


Antonio

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Antonio Carlini]

On 11/03/16 17:54, Paul Koning wrote:
RSTS V4 (from 1973) is from the white binder era. Then came blue, then 
gray, then "chinese red" if I remember the order correctly. Maybe the 
last two are swapped. So gray would suggest a fairly late version, 
perhaps V8 or so. Still definitely interesting and potentially worth 
scanning; bitsavers only has a few versions and the differences can be 
significant. paul 


In VMS-land "Chinese Red" was V4 and whatever-grey-was-called was V5. V3 
was (iirc) a blue of some sort.

I assume that RSTS would have been in the same chronological order.

Antonio

--
Antonio Carlini
arcarl...@iee.org

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

[Richard Cini]

Gary -- that must be what the other switch is for. I haven't yet unmounted the 
PS board to see what the switch was connected to, only having recently gotten 
the schematic.  I'll make sure the switch is off (I think it may be on). 

The schematic has an unlabeled jumper "J" which is shown connected. The related 
transistor connects to the BEVENT signal on the backplane so that must be the 
LTC. Aha!

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:22 PM, Gary L. Messick  wrote:
> 
> Rich,
> 
> If you need to disable the LTC interrupt, it's a jumper wire located on the 
> top (solder side) of the power supply.  It originally came as two single pin 
> socket type things with a wire jumper-ed between them.  When I previously 
> asked whether it had two or three switches on the front, later models moved 
> it to the front panel.
> 
> Also, I vaguely remember issues with booting HT-11 with the LTC enabled.  I 
> believe you could re-enabled it after booting, but that would be a ~40 year 
> old memory!
> 
> Gary
> 
> From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Richard Cini 
> [rich.c...@verizon.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 1:35 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03
> 
> Mattis -- thanks! I'll check this out in detail when I get home tonight and 
> I'll give it a try.
> 
> Rich
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 11, 2016, at 1:26 PM, Mattis Lind  wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>> SIMH has never directly supported mounting/attaching virtual TU58 devices.
>>> Altho the required serial interface
>>> is emulated (ie, a plain DL11 at 776500/300) the TU58 drive behind the
>>> serial interface has never been emulated.
>> I just tested the latest SimH from github and it is indeed possible to
>> enable tdc and attach an image file to the tdc0 device. I then booted into
>> RT11 from a DU-device and did INIT DD0: no problem.
>> Then I made a bootable DD image. I did even do a BOOT DD0: which gave me a
>> RT11-prompt. But booting from SimH failed on me. I am not sure why.
>> 
>> MattisMacBook:BIN mattis$ ./pdp11
>> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
>> sim> set tdc enable
>> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
>> TDC: creating new file
>> TDC: buffering file in memory
>> sim> attach rq0 rt11v53-games.dsk
>> sim> b rq0
>> 
>> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>> 
>> .init dd0:
>> DD0:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y
>> 
>> .copy dd.sys dd0:
>> Files copied:
>> DK:DD.SYS  to DD0:DD.SYS
>>  Copying some files *
>> 
>> 
>> .copy rt11sj.sys dd0:
>> Files copied:
>> DK:RT11SJ.SYS  to DD0:RT11SJ.SYS
>> 
>> .copy/boot rt11sj.sys dd0:
>> .boot dd0:
>> 
>> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>> 
>> .dir
>> 
>> DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85  TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85
>> SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85  STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85
>> DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85  DUP   .SAV47P 20-Dec-85
>> DU.SYS 8P 20-Dec-85  RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85
>> 8 Files, 188 Blocks
>> 316 Free blocks
>> 
>> .boot du0:
>> 
>> 
>> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> Simulation stopped, PC: 146414 (BCC 146446)
>> sim> exit
>> Goodbye
>> TDC: writing buffer to file
>> 
>> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
>> sim> set tdc enable
>> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
>> TDC: buffering file in memory
>> sim> b tdc0
>> 
>> 
>> Trap stack push abort, PC: 00 (WAIT)
>> sim>
>> 
>> I have no idea why SimH is not able to boot from the simulated DD0: device.
>> The steps to make a bootable dd0: was exactly the same steps as to make a
>> bootable RK0: which works just fine.
>> 
>> 
>> Ersatz-11 on the other hand works fine with the same image:
>> 
>> E11>assign tt1: dda:
>> E11>mount dda0: rt11v53_dd.dsk
>> E11>b tt1:
>> 
>> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>> 
>> .dir
>> 
>> TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85  DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85
>> RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85  SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85
>> STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85  DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85
>> RESORC.SAV25P 20-Dec-85
>> 7 Files, 158 Blocks
>> 346 Free blocks
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> This is the image that boots in Ersatz-11 but not in SimH:
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/rt11v53_dd.dsk.gz
>> Since it boots on Ersatz-11 when set to 11/03 CPU it should work on the
>> real hardware.
>> 
>> BTW. It not so that the LTC interrupt is enabled in your system? I have had
>> problem with that one. In certain cases it need to be disabled. If I
>> remember correctly I had problems booting RT11 from MSCP devices with LTC
>> enabled.
>> 
>> /Mattis
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Don
> 
> 
> 

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Paul Koning]

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Robert Jarratt  
> wrote:
> 
> I know nothing about RSTS and RSX, how many shelf-feet are we talking? A
> handful of DECdirect would be nice too. Not sure what SOC refers to though?

RSTS V4 is 2 or 3 manuals (two binders); eventually it grew to be maybe 10 or 
so.  Less than two feet, significantly less than VMS.

paul

RE: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

[Gary L. Messick]

Rich,

If you need to disable the LTC interrupt, it's a jumper wire located on the top 
(solder side) of the power supply.  It originally came as two single pin socket 
type things with a wire jumper-ed between them.  When I previously asked 
whether it had two or three switches on the front, later models moved it to the 
front panel.

Also, I vaguely remember issues with booting HT-11 with the LTC enabled.  I 
believe you could re-enabled it after booting, but that would be a ~40 year old 
memory!

Gary

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Richard Cini 
[rich.c...@verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 1:35 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

Mattis -- thanks! I'll check this out in detail when I get home tonight and 
I'll give it a try.

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2016, at 1:26 PM, Mattis Lind  wrote:

>>
>> SIMH has never directly supported mounting/attaching virtual TU58 devices.
>> Altho the required serial interface
>> is emulated (ie, a plain DL11 at 776500/300) the TU58 drive behind the
>> serial interface has never been emulated.
> I just tested the latest SimH from github and it is indeed possible to
> enable tdc and attach an image file to the tdc0 device. I then booted into
> RT11 from a DU-device and did INIT DD0: no problem.
> Then I made a bootable DD image. I did even do a BOOT DD0: which gave me a
> RT11-prompt. But booting from SimH failed on me. I am not sure why.
>
> MattisMacBook:BIN mattis$ ./pdp11
> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
> sim> set tdc enable
> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
> TDC: creating new file
> TDC: buffering file in memory
> sim> attach rq0 rt11v53-games.dsk
> sim> b rq0
>
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>
> .init dd0:
> DD0:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y
>
> .copy dd.sys dd0:
> Files copied:
> DK:DD.SYS  to DD0:DD.SYS
>  Copying some files *
>
>
> .copy rt11sj.sys dd0:
> Files copied:
> DK:RT11SJ.SYS  to DD0:RT11SJ.SYS
>
> .copy/boot rt11sj.sys dd0:
> .boot dd0:
>
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>
> .dir
>
> DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85  TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85
> SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85  STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85
> DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85  DUP   .SAV47P 20-Dec-85
> DU.SYS 8P 20-Dec-85  RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85
> 8 Files, 188 Blocks
> 316 Free blocks
>
> .boot du0:
>
>
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>
> .
>
> Simulation stopped, PC: 146414 (BCC 146446)
> sim> exit
> Goodbye
> TDC: writing buffer to file
>
> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
> sim> set tdc enable
> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
> TDC: buffering file in memory
> sim> b tdc0
>
>
> Trap stack push abort, PC: 00 (WAIT)
> sim>
>
> I have no idea why SimH is not able to boot from the simulated DD0: device.
> The steps to make a bootable dd0: was exactly the same steps as to make a
> bootable RK0: which works just fine.
>
>
> Ersatz-11 on the other hand works fine with the same image:
>
> E11>assign tt1: dda:
> E11>mount dda0: rt11v53_dd.dsk
> E11>b tt1:
>
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
>
> .dir
>
> TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85  DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85
> RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85  SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85
> STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85  DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85
> RESORC.SAV25P 20-Dec-85
> 7 Files, 158 Blocks
> 346 Free blocks
>
> .
>
>
> This is the image that boots in Ersatz-11 but not in SimH:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/rt11v53_dd.dsk.gz
> Since it boots on Ersatz-11 when set to 11/03 CPU it should work on the
> real hardware.
>
> BTW. It not so that the LTC interrupt is enabled in your system? I have had
> problem with that one. In certain cases it need to be disabled. If I
> remember correctly I had problems booting RT11 from MSCP devices with LTC
> enabled.
>
> /Mattis
>
>
>
>> Don
>>

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

[Richard Cini]

I had a little time after lunch to try the below procedure and using the beta 
version of SIMH I am able to create a tape image that's bootable by SIMH 
without the below error. 

I copied the following to the image, which I will try with TU58em when I get 
home tonight:

DD, TT, rt11sj, DU, SL, LD, pip, dir, swap, dup, and starts.com. 

The size of the image is 504 blocks (264 free). 

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2016, at 1:26 PM, Mattis Lind  wrote:

>> 
>> SIMH has never directly supported mounting/attaching virtual TU58 devices.
>> Altho the required serial interface
>> is emulated (ie, a plain DL11 at 776500/300) the TU58 drive behind the
>> serial interface has never been emulated.
> I just tested the latest SimH from github and it is indeed possible to
> enable tdc and attach an image file to the tdc0 device. I then booted into
> RT11 from a DU-device and did INIT DD0: no problem.
> Then I made a bootable DD image. I did even do a BOOT DD0: which gave me a
> RT11-prompt. But booting from SimH failed on me. I am not sure why.
> 
> MattisMacBook:BIN mattis$ ./pdp11
> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
> sim> set tdc enable
> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
> TDC: creating new file
> TDC: buffering file in memory
> sim> attach rq0 rt11v53-games.dsk
> sim> b rq0
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .init dd0:
> DD0:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y
> 
> .copy dd.sys dd0:
> Files copied:
> DK:DD.SYS  to DD0:DD.SYS
>  Copying some files *
> 
> 
> .copy rt11sj.sys dd0:
> Files copied:
> DK:RT11SJ.SYS  to DD0:RT11SJ.SYS
> 
> .copy/boot rt11sj.sys dd0:
> .boot dd0:
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .dir
> 
> DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85  TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85
> SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85  STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85
> DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85  DUP   .SAV47P 20-Dec-85
> DU.SYS 8P 20-Dec-85  RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85
> 8 Files, 188 Blocks
> 316 Free blocks
> 
> .boot du0:
> 
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .
> 
> Simulation stopped, PC: 146414 (BCC 146446)
> sim> exit
> Goodbye
> TDC: writing buffer to file
> 
> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
> sim> set tdc enable
> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
> TDC: buffering file in memory
> sim> b tdc0
> 
> 
> Trap stack push abort, PC: 00 (WAIT)
> sim>
> 
> I have no idea why SimH is not able to boot from the simulated DD0: device.
> The steps to make a bootable dd0: was exactly the same steps as to make a
> bootable RK0: which works just fine.
> 
> 
> Ersatz-11 on the other hand works fine with the same image:
> 
> E11>assign tt1: dda:
> E11>mount dda0: rt11v53_dd.dsk
> E11>b tt1:
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .dir
> 
> TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85  DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85
> RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85  SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85
> STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85  DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85
> RESORC.SAV25P 20-Dec-85
> 7 Files, 158 Blocks
> 346 Free blocks
> 
> .
> 
> 
> This is the image that boots in Ersatz-11 but not in SimH:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/rt11v53_dd.dsk.gz
> Since it boots on Ersatz-11 when set to 11/03 CPU it should work on the
> real hardware.
> 
> BTW. It not so that the LTC interrupt is enabled in your system? I have had
> problem with that one. In certain cases it need to be disabled. If I
> remember correctly I had problems booting RT11 from MSCP devices with LTC
> enabled.
> 
> /Mattis
> 
> 
> 
>> Don
>> 

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

[Richard Cini]

Mattis -- thanks! I'll check this out in detail when I get home tonight and 
I'll give it a try. 

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2016, at 1:26 PM, Mattis Lind  wrote:

>> 
>> SIMH has never directly supported mounting/attaching virtual TU58 devices.
>> Altho the required serial interface
>> is emulated (ie, a plain DL11 at 776500/300) the TU58 drive behind the
>> serial interface has never been emulated.
> I just tested the latest SimH from github and it is indeed possible to
> enable tdc and attach an image file to the tdc0 device. I then booted into
> RT11 from a DU-device and did INIT DD0: no problem.
> Then I made a bootable DD image. I did even do a BOOT DD0: which gave me a
> RT11-prompt. But booting from SimH failed on me. I am not sure why.
> 
> MattisMacBook:BIN mattis$ ./pdp11
> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
> sim> set tdc enable
> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
> TDC: creating new file
> TDC: buffering file in memory
> sim> attach rq0 rt11v53-games.dsk
> sim> b rq0
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .init dd0:
> DD0:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y
> 
> .copy dd.sys dd0:
> Files copied:
> DK:DD.SYS  to DD0:DD.SYS
>  Copying some files *
> 
> 
> .copy rt11sj.sys dd0:
> Files copied:
> DK:RT11SJ.SYS  to DD0:RT11SJ.SYS
> 
> .copy/boot rt11sj.sys dd0:
> .boot dd0:
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .dir
> 
> DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85  TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85
> SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85  STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85
> DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85  DUP   .SAV47P 20-Dec-85
> DU.SYS 8P 20-Dec-85  RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85
> 8 Files, 188 Blocks
> 316 Free blocks
> 
> .boot du0:
> 
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .
> 
> Simulation stopped, PC: 146414 (BCC 146446)
> sim> exit
> Goodbye
> TDC: writing buffer to file
> 
> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
> sim> set tdc enable
> sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
> TDC: buffering file in memory
> sim> b tdc0
> 
> 
> Trap stack push abort, PC: 00 (WAIT)
> sim>
> 
> I have no idea why SimH is not able to boot from the simulated DD0: device.
> The steps to make a bootable dd0: was exactly the same steps as to make a
> bootable RK0: which works just fine.
> 
> 
> Ersatz-11 on the other hand works fine with the same image:
> 
> E11>assign tt1: dda:
> E11>mount dda0: rt11v53_dd.dsk
> E11>b tt1:
> 
> RT-11SJ  V05.03
> 
> .dir
> 
> TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85  DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85
> RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85  SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85
> STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85  DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85
> RESORC.SAV25P 20-Dec-85
> 7 Files, 158 Blocks
> 346 Free blocks
> 
> .
> 
> 
> This is the image that boots in Ersatz-11 but not in SimH:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/rt11v53_dd.dsk.gz
> Since it boots on Ersatz-11 when set to 11/03 CPU it should work on the
> real hardware.
> 
> BTW. It not so that the LTC interrupt is enabled in your system? I have had
> problem with that one. In certain cases it need to be disabled. If I
> remember correctly I had problems booting RT11 from MSCP devices with LTC
> enabled.
> 
> /Mattis
> 
> 
> 
>> Don
>> 

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

[Mattis Lind]

>
> SIMH has never directly supported mounting/attaching virtual TU58 devices.
> Altho the required serial interface
> is emulated (ie, a plain DL11 at 776500/300) the TU58 drive behind the
> serial interface has never been emulated.
>
>
>
I just tested the latest SimH from github and it is indeed possible to
enable tdc and attach an image file to the tdc0 device. I then booted into
RT11 from a DU-device and did INIT DD0: no problem.
Then I made a bootable DD image. I did even do a BOOT DD0: which gave me a
RT11-prompt. But booting from SimH failed on me. I am not sure why.

MattisMacBook:BIN mattis$ ./pdp11
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
sim> set tdc enable
sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
TDC: creating new file
TDC: buffering file in memory
sim> attach rq0 rt11v53-games.dsk
sim> b rq0

RT-11SJ  V05.03

.init dd0:
DD0:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y

.copy dd.sys dd0:
 Files copied:
DK:DD.SYS  to DD0:DD.SYS
 Copying some files *


.copy rt11sj.sys dd0:
 Files copied:
DK:RT11SJ.SYS  to DD0:RT11SJ.SYS

.copy/boot rt11sj.sys dd0:
.boot dd0:

RT-11SJ  V05.03

.dir

DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85  TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85
SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85  STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85
DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85  DUP   .SAV47P 20-Dec-85
DU.SYS 8P 20-Dec-85  RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85
 8 Files, 188 Blocks
 316 Free blocks

.boot du0:


RT-11SJ  V05.03

.

Simulation stopped, PC: 146414 (BCC 146446)
sim> exit
Goodbye
TDC: writing buffer to file

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 1b6f28a7
sim> set tdc enable
sim> attach tdc0 rt11-dd.dsk
TDC: buffering file in memory
sim> b tdc0


Trap stack push abort, PC: 00 (WAIT)
sim>

I have no idea why SimH is not able to boot from the simulated DD0: device.
The steps to make a bootable dd0: was exactly the same steps as to make a
bootable RK0: which works just fine.


Ersatz-11 on the other hand works fine with the same image:

E11>assign tt1: dda:
E11>mount dda0: rt11v53_dd.dsk
E11>b tt1:

RT-11SJ  V05.03

.dir

TT.SYS 2P 20-Dec-85  DD.SYS 5P 20-Dec-85
RT11SJ.SYS79P 20-Dec-85  SWAP  .SYS27P 20-Dec-85
STARTS.COM 1P 20-Dec-85  DIR   .SAV19P 20-Dec-85
RESORC.SAV25P 20-Dec-85
 7 Files, 158 Blocks
 346 Free blocks

.


This is the image that boots in Ersatz-11 but not in SimH:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/rt11v53_dd.dsk.gz
Since it boots on Ersatz-11 when set to 11/03 CPU it should work on the
real hardware.

BTW. It not so that the LTC interrupt is enabled in your system? I have had
problem with that one. In certain cases it need to be disabled. If I
remember correctly I had problems booting RT11 from MSCP devices with LTC
enabled.

/Mattis



> Don
>

RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Robert Jarratt]

I know nothing about RSTS and RSX, how many shelf-feet are we talking? A
handful of DECdirect would be nice too. Not sure what SOC refers to though?

Regards

Rob

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian
> Graham
> Sent: 11 March 2016 17:40
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> Newmarket UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/03/2016 16:50, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
> 
> > How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals! Which
> > version of VMS?
> >
> > Dave
> 
> They're in a sales office and I forgot about them when you visited
otherwise
> you could've taken them. I'm guessing at the versions but it'll probably
be
> VMS 5.5 and RSTS4 but I can check on Monday.
> 
> A
> 
> 
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> >> Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
> >> Sent: 11 March 2016 16:23
> >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> >> Newmarket UK
> >>
> >> On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham 
> >> wrote:
> >>> We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full
> >>> bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take
> >>> them away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't
> >>> realise there was a shelf of RSTS manuals!
> >>>
> >> I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask: What
> >> version of the operating systems? And are they manuals that are
> >> already on BitSavers, if they're not please scan them?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Christian
> >> --
> >> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
> >> STCKON08DS0
> >> Contact information available upon request.
> >
> 
> --
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Paul Koning]

> On Mar 11, 2016, at 12:39 PM, Adrian Graham  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/03/2016 16:50, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
> 
>> How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals! Which version of
>> VMS?
>> 
>> Dave
> 
> They're in a sales office and I forgot about them when you visited otherwise
> you could've taken them. I'm guessing at the versions but it'll probably be
> VMS 5.5 and RSTS4 but I can check on Monday.

RSTS V4 (from 1973) is from the white binder era.  Then came blue, then gray, 
then "chinese red" if I remember the order correctly.  Maybe the last two are 
swapped.  So gray would suggest a fairly late version, perhaps V8 or so.  Still 
definitely interesting and potentially worth scanning; bitsavers only has a few 
versions and the differences can be significant.

paul

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Adrian Graham]

On 11/03/2016 16:50, "Dave Wade"  wrote:

> How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals! Which version of
> VMS?
> 
> Dave

They're in a sales office and I forgot about them when you visited otherwise
you could've taken them. I'm guessing at the versions but it'll probably be
VMS 5.5 and RSTS4 but I can check on Monday.

A


> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christian
>> Gauger-Cosgrove
>> Sent: 11 March 2016 16:23
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> 
>> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
>> Newmarket UK
>> 
>> On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham 
>> wrote:
>>> We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full
>>> bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take them
>>> away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't realise
>>> there was a shelf of RSTS manuals!
>>> 
>> I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask: What version of
>> the
>> operating systems? And are they manuals that are already on BitSavers, if
>> they're not please scan them?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Christian
>> --
>> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
>> STCKON08DS0
>> Contact information available upon request.
> 

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

RE: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Dave Wade]

How did I miss this! I could do with some older VMS manuals! Which version of 
VMS?

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christian
> Gauger-Cosgrove
> Sent: 11 March 2016 16:23
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books,
> Newmarket UK
> 
> On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham 
> wrote:
> > We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full
> > bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take them
> > away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't realise
> > there was a shelf of RSTS manuals!
> >
> I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask: What version of 
> the
> operating systems? And are they manuals that are already on BitSavers, if
> they're not please scan them?
> 
> Regards,
> Christian
> --
> Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
> STCKON08DS0
> Contact information available upon request.

Re: VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 11 March 2016 at 06:46, Adrian Graham  wrote:
> We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full bookcase
> of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take them away? Must
> admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't realise there was a shelf
> of RSTS manuals!
>
I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic, but I've got to ask: What
version of the operating systems? And are they manuals that are
already on BitSavers, if they're not please scan them?

Regards,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: Any word on the Multics revival front?

[Charles Anthony]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux 
wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 01:44:50PM -0500, Michael Kerpan wrote:
>
> > When Multics was officially released as free software a couple of
> > years ago, there was a flurry of activity aimed at getting some sort
> > of emulator up and running to run it. Did anything ever come of that
> > or did folks just lose interest (or find out that the needed
> > GE/Honeywell hardware was too poorly-documented to write an emulator
> > of)
>
> I hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while.  Yesterday I
> discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
>
> https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
>
> is far enough along to boot Multics.  I thought some folks on this list
> might be interested in it.
>
> Using the files from the QuickStart_MR12.6d.zip archive I managed to boot
> Multics yesterday.  The README file in that archive describes how to boot
> the system and sign on as Repair.SysAdmin, but not much else.  I'd never
> touched a Multics system before, and didn't have time yesterday to get to
> know the system.  Does anyone know of any Multics How-Tos, especially how
> to
> shut Multics down properly?
>
>
> On the console:

ESC   (The ATTN key)
logout * *(SHuts down the daemons)

When it prompts (->) again, hit ESC to release the console.
You should 6 or so messages about daemons logging out.
When the messages stop:

ESC
shut

If it asks if it's okay to shut down:

y

You should see messages, ending with 'bce>'  (Boot Command Environment, the
long lost ancestor of GRUB).

ESC
die
y

Depending on the startup script, you may then see the simh prompt 'simh>'

   q

Multics today: http://ringzero.wikidot.com/

Multics FAQ 

Multics Cheat Sheet 

Multicians 

-- Charles


>

Re: Any word on the Multics revival front?

[Kevin Monceaux]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 01:44:50PM -0500, Michael Kerpan wrote:

> When Multics was officially released as free software a couple of
> years ago, there was a flurry of activity aimed at getting some sort
> of emulator up and running to run it. Did anything ever come of that
> or did folks just lose interest (or find out that the needed
> GE/Honeywell hardware was too poorly-documented to write an emulator
> of)

I hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while.  Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:

https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/

is far enough along to boot Multics.  I thought some folks on this list
might be interested in it.

Using the files from the QuickStart_MR12.6d.zip archive I managed to boot
Multics yesterday.  The README file in that archive describes how to boot
the system and sign on as Repair.SysAdmin, but not much else.  I'd never
touched a Multics system before, and didn't have time yesterday to get to
know the system.  Does anyone know of any Multics How-Tos, especially how to
shut Multics down properly?



-- 

Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

Re: Dumping Images of my VAX-11/730's Drives?

[Peter Coghlan]

> 
> > If you get TCP/IP networking like Multinet (ie not like CMUIP) running, you
> > should be able to use FTP, rcp or maybe even TFTP to move a VMS BACKUP save
> > set to another system.  The snag is you need enough scratch space to create
> > the saveset on the 11/730 before you transfer it.
>
> Well, there's the problem: I don't have scratch space, since all of the hard
> drives are precisely what I want to image.

Another option I forgot is that if you have Multinet installed, it can do RMT
(remote tape over TCP/IP) which VMS BACKUP can use to write to a tape drive on
a remote system.  I don't know if the other TCP/IP stacks for VMS can do RMT
but I'm pretty sure CMUIP can't.  However, if you don't already have a suitable
TCP/IP stack installed, it's going to equally difficult to get it installed as
to do the backup.

> > C-Kermit for VMS might be able to do this - I can't recall.
>
> Getting it onto the machine in the first place might be a challenge!
>

I think C-Kermit and/or the earlier Kermit-32 for VMS came with some sort of
minimal hex loader which can be typed in to cope with this issue.

>
> I can boot either 7.3 from the R80 fixed drive, or 5.2 from an RL02 pack. So
> in theory, I should be able to boot from each of them to image the other.
> There might be TCP/IP support on the 7.3 installation, but I doubt there's
> any TCP/IP support on the 5.2. I hope that the DECNET support is there on
> both installations for the ethernet card.
>
> I set up a VM on my Mac running Ubuntu with DECNET support installed.
> Despite being orphaned several years ago, it still seems to run. So I think
> that trying to bring up DECNET on the VAX might give me options. I was
> thinking that if nothing else, if I can log into the VAX remotely via DECNET
> and log the terminal output, then maybe I could just DUMP a foreign-mounted
> volume and then write some throw-away program to transmogrify the hex dump
> into a block-level image. It would be slow, but I hope it would at least be
> quite a bit faster than dumping over an async serial port.
>
> If I can write a file from the VAX to that Ubuntu VM via DECNET, then maybe I
> can just COPY a foreign-mounted volume to a file on the VM. I don't know what 
> capabilities the Linux DECNET support gives me yet, but if I can do this then
> that should be a good option. I wonder if I can image tapes that way, too?
>

COPY will give up if it encounters a bad block on the disk and it will also be
difficult to ensure the resulting image is a valid copy of the disk.  BACKUP to
a saveset over DECnet will keep going despite errors and will also include
extra overhead to allow the integrity of the saveset to be verified in case it
gets damaged later.  Using BACKUP will also allow restores of particular files
to be done if required rather than having to restore the whole disk even if
only a small number of files are damaged or inadvertently deleted.

> > Clustering is pretty simple when you know how but if you don't want to get 
> > into
> > configuring a cluster, a DECnet connected system or emulated system would
> > probably be the way to go.  Configuring DECnet on VMS can be done very 
> > easily
> > with surprisingly little understanding of what is going on and is less
> > invasive than configuring a cluster.
>
> You had me at "surprisingly little understanding of what is going on"! This
> sounds like the thing for me to try next.
>

Configuring (phase IV) DECnet is as simple as giving the command:

$ @SYS$MANAGER:NETCONFIG

and answering the questions.  Suitable default answers should be provided for
most of the questions and this is why little understanding of what is going on
is required :-)  Don't worry about not understanding the long list of commands
it comes up with to carry out the configuration either.

You can try the above just to see the questions and then answer "NO" at the end
when it asks if you want the commands to be executed.

If DECnet is already installed, it is probably already configured and the best
thing to do would be to configure the Ubuntu end to suit.  Give it a different
DECnet node address in the same DECnet area.

DECnet on VMS needs a license to be loaded, at least on the V7.3 system.  Do a:

$ SHOW LICENSE

and look for DVNETEND, DVNETRTG or DVNETEXT.  VMS hobbyist licenses can be used.

> > On VMS, any file, including a BACKUP saveset can be specified as being 
> > located
> > on a remote DECnet node, so it is possible to run BACKUP on your 11/730 and 
> > have
> > the output saveset situated on a different VAX / Alpha / Itanium / emulated
> > system running VMS or on a unix or other system capable of running DECnet 
> > well,
> > (ultrix?), even a PC/Macintosh running DOS/Windows/Macos and DEC Pathworks.
>
> That sounds very promising!

A possible issue with BACKUP is that it will want the saveset to have a
particular fixed record length and it might not cope if the remote filesystem
does not support this and the remote DECnet implementatio

VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

[Adrian Graham]

Folks,

We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full bookcase
of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take them away? Must
admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't realise there was a shelf
of RSTS manuals!

Deadline is late next week so thurs/fri 17/18th.

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

[Marco Gariboldi]

2016-03-11 5:31 GMT+01:00 Zane Healy :

> Again, Rollei, where the Tessar is on the low-end, Planar is on the
> high-end.  And yes, even SGI had a low-end.  I have two O2’s, one is
> low-end, one is high-end, there the difference is the CPU..
>

Nobody in his right mind would've called a(n originally) US$ 17000~2
costing O2 'low-end', just because it was *relatively speaking* one of the
_cheaper offerings_ of SGI.  Neither did companies treat it as low-end, as
Discreet, SGO and other big names certified the O2 for turn-key usage, like
as an Effect (later: Spark) compositing turn-key system.  I can assure you,
those didn't have low-end price tags either, at all!



> Are you familiar with colour fringing, such as you get with a Voigtlander
> 15mm f/4.5 lens on a Leica M9?


I'm not a millionaire or an pensioned old man, I haven't owned any Leica
camera bodies.  But I've heard and read rather 'mixed' things about
Cosina-Voigtländer lenses, yes.


I like my 50’s to be 50’s, and my wides to be wide.


Your wallet better be wide, too.  It comes at a considerable premium...



> Besides, you get a higher image quality out of a full frame sensor.


This is entirely subjective, it has nothing to do with the quality of
pictures.  There's also an entire and growing community of µ4/3 users that
will happily disagree... and who didn't have to spend a small fortune
either, to get where they are.



> If I could afford it, I’d be shooting medium format.


You'll get kicked out of most places with such a monstrosity in your hands,
being asked for journalistic credentials, permits and such.  If that's no
problem for you, along with portability, I guess it might work out for
you.  (Especially if money also grows on your back, unless you're doing
this professionally.)



> I have a friend with a Hasselblad H3D, it’s fairly old, but blows away my
> much newer Nikon D800, and his Canon 1Dx.
>

I saw tests that actually showed the contrary.  But I guess the average
Hasselblad chump isn't willing to admit it, after having had to sell his
car in order to be able to afford one.



> Most people will be happy with the 50mm f/1.4G at any aperture.  I’m after
> as close to perfection as I can get.


Can you show some of your examples?  Also, what's the point of buying a
lens with a fairly wide aperture if it's only usable stopped down so much?
(Were you aware of this prior to buying it?)  Most experienced
photographers would even think twice before buying such a lens at all, if
having been aware prior to purchasing it.



> BTW, there is one other Nikkor lens that I’m totally happy with.  That’s
> the 14-24mm f/2.8 zoom.  A truly amazing lens.


Is that a kit lens?


 - MG

Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03

[Richard Cini]

Thanks Don. I did read that thread previously  but I will do so again in case I 
missed a finer point in it. 

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 11:09 PM, Don North  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/10/2016 7:02 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
>>> On 3/10/2016 9:36 PM, Richard Cini wrote:
>>> Separately… John — the SLUs are at what I think are the standard addresses 
>>> and vectors (per the Heathkit and DLV11-J manuals) and the ODT and TU58EM 
>>> work. I don’t know what RT-11 is looking for but the console @ 177560/60 
>>> and TU58 @ 176500/300 (Channel 3 and Channel 0 in DLV11-J parlance). I have 
>>> not tried booting SIMH with the TU58 image (not sure how to do that; need 
>>> to work on it). Regarding getting a real RX01 or RL02, the issue for me is 
>>> space. It’s pretty convenient using a laptop and TU58EM (providing I can 
>>> get something other than XXDPD2D to work). If someone has already built 
>>> bootable TU58 RT-11 images, I haven’t found them yet.
>> 
>> I have doubts that taking an RK05 image, and copying the DD: bootstrap in 
>> like that, and then simply taking that modified RK05 image and attempting to 
>> boot it as a TU58... I'm not sure if that could work.  Just seems like 
>> there'd been some structural differences.  But I could be wrong.
>> 
>> I forget if either SIMH or Ersatz emulates a TU58.. but if they do, try 
>> making an empty tape container (I think TU58EM can do this) and then build 
>> up and RT11 system as outlined in the manual using one of the emulators.  
>> Make sure it can boot in the emulator (if that's possible).
>> 
>> Do you know for sure if a real TU58 can even run RT-11?   Never tried it.
>> 
>> p.s.  you could also get yourself a qbus SCSI card, and have a much smaller 
>> disk subsystem.
>> 
>> - J.
> 
> Creating/running an RT-11 image on a TU58 tape, and then booting/running it 
> under TU58EM has been
> discussed in the past. I would suggest reading thru this thread, as it did 
> succeed in building a bootable
> TU58 RT-11 image:
> 
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?39372-Wanted-RT-11-OS-as-a-TU-58-image/page2&highlight=tu58em
> 
> RT-11 can run from a TU58 disk (tape) as demonstrated above, on real PDP-11 
> hardware.
> 
> SIMH has never directly supported mounting/attaching virtual TU58 devices. 
> Altho the required serial interface
> is emulated (ie, a plain DL11 at 776500/300) the TU58 drive behind the serial 
> interface has never been emulated.
> 
> Theoretically one could attach the emulated serial port in SIMH to a real 
> serial port that TU58EM is connected to
> (or use something like comOcom on windows to wire together virtual serial 
> ports) and run TU58EM with SIMH,
> but I know of noone doing this (I never have, altho I believe it is 
> technically possible to do).
> 
> I believe that ERSATZ-11 has integrated support for TU58 image support 
> mounting, so that might be the way
> to go to build a TU58 image under simulation.
> 
> I have seen rumblings that someone might be working on a virtual TU58 device 
> for SIMH, but maybe it is just
> an idea at this point for a rainy day. The code would be pretty 
> straightforward I suspect.
> 
> Don

SimH & Panels: new BlinkenBone release

[Jörg Hoppe]

Hi,

the BlinkenBone project made much progress last months.
("BlinkenBone" is this "connect physical and simulated panels to SimH" 
thing).


New features:

- a PDP-8/I front panel Java simulation.
http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/simulated-panels/248-blinkenbone-simulated-pdp8i-panel
http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/simulated-panels/251-blinkenbone-playing-with-the-pdp8i
  The PDP-8/I SimH extension needs validation against a physical machine.

- Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP8 can be connected as panel.
http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/blinkenbone-physical-panels/249-pidp8-as-blinkenbone-panel

- most Java panels can now be 2400 pixels width (monitors keep growing)

- Repackaging:
  Precompiled distributions at 
https://github.com/j-hoppe/BlinkenBone/releases
  There are distributions for Win32, Ubuntu 32/64, and RaspberryPi 
Raspbian.
  A single distribution contains now all simulations (PDP-11/40, 11/70, 
PDP-10 KI10 and PDP-8/I).


- Ported from SimH 3.8 to v4.x. I'm back!

- Sources on GitHub at https://github.com/j-hoppe/BlinkenBone.git

Since the BlinkenBone projects expands beyond expectation, the web doc 
is completely reordered (== trashed?)
Not all content is stable yet and links will float, rely on 
http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone at the moment.

There's also the shortcut www.blinkenbone.com .

As always, error feedback is welcome!


have fun,
Joerg