Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 04/18/2016 09:15 PM, drlegendre . wrote:
> "What's the going price per gallon of sperm whale oil?"
> 
> Unless the Braycote products are directly interchangeable with Sperm
> Whale oil, how is your comparison even remotely relevant?
> 
> They are rendered from entirely different sources. Whale oil is a
> natural, animal-derived product that pretty much went out with the
> depletion of the resources (and finally, international treaties).
> P/TFE and MoS2 were formulated in industrial laboratories, and to
> this day, are turned out by industrial processes.
> 
> Am I incorrect?

No, just pointing out that there *are* other oils with very high price
tags--and in years past, could be purchased by the gallon.

ISTR that the antique clock folks still hoard whale oil.

--Chuck

Weird c. 1982 Onyx systems 68010-based UNIX minicomputer

[Ian Finder]

Folks,

Just thought I'd post this here for fun.

I had heard of Onyx systems, a Z8000 UNIX system vendor.

Recently I was contacted by someone in the Seattle area who claimed to have
an unused Onyx systems 68010 system, perhaps a prototype. There is nothing
about this I was able to find online.

It came with distribution media on QIC tape- some generic looking (from the
docs it came with) flavor of UNIX, which I am going to get help imaging.

There is nothing on the hard drive (installed via ESDI to SCSI bridge)- it
was never used or installed.

I don't really need anything- the machine was new in box and works
correctly. It has media- but I'd love more context if people know it. Sure,
it's a very boring generic M68K box, but I can barely find any record of it
existing.

I know Onyx was originally bought by Corvus, who had their own 68K box-
perhaps why this was killed.

Cheers,

- Ian

(apologies for the Instagram image host, I don't want to dig it out right
now but I will send proper pictures to anyone interested)

https://www.instagram.com/p/6EcFCwNSz4/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
https://www.instagram.com/p/6GK8brNS_V/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
https://www.instagram.com/p/6GLEvutS_e/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n

-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[John Robertson]

On 04/17/2016 8:11 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2016-Apr-17, at 7:28 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:


Nope, the cylindrical (outer part of the) bearing is a plain cylinder. But
looking at it closely, it's probably not copper, so it might be that Oilite
stuff.

Online images do give a fair idea of the appearance of the surface texture and 
colour of oilite / porous bronze bearings.
It can generally be readily distinguished from 'pure solid' metal.
e.g.:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=oilite&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjvbLXkZfMAhULxmMKHUQVDvwQ_AUIBQ

I've removed such bearing fittings often enough from equipment for random stock 
but don't recall whether or not I've seen them in box/muffin fans.

I'd guess that grease may be a poor idea for oilite at least inasmuch as once 
there is grease in the pores the material will probably never again function 
the way it was supposed to with oil.


I use a drop of synthetic motor oil on stuck fans, and tiny motors 
(P{hilips CDM series players) - works very well, no returns in ten years!


John :-#)#

--
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
 www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

Re: Atari 800 finally tested, using home theater projector

[drlegendre .]

Eric,

Did you get my last couple mails? I have the carts you need, and sent you a
list of the others I have on-hand.. didn't hear back.

Maybe hit the /dev/null or..?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> The 1027's problem is the type 'pallets' fail by falling off. I have not
> seen one taken apart
> and it was a long time ago I was offered one. It would be interesting to
> see if one could
> rebuild them.
>
> BTW the Teletype 40's have a similar issue, the type belt disintegrates.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFqEgpSXnNo
>
> one that has not yet come apart, sadly needs a new ribbon
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwLbpr6yLo
>
> The plotter is pretty cool considering what a commercial one cost.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:
>
> > Perhaps five years ago, a friend gave me some Atari 8-bit gear,
> > including an 800, 800XL, 1020 plotter, 1027 letter-quality printer
> > (which is undoubtedly no good now), and a 1050 floppy drive, but no
> > software. The stuff has been in storage in my mother's basement until
> > recently. I just kludged up a composite video cable for it, and tested
> > it on a home theater projector. Without software, I can only test it
> > with the built-in "Memo Pad", but it seems to work:
> >
> >   https://www.flickr.com/photos/22368471@N04/25892477424/
> >
> > Now I'll look for BASIC and Star Raiders cartridges. It should be fun
> > playing Star Raiders on the big screen. That was the first game I ever
> > played on an Atari 800, back in 1979.
> >
> >
>

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[drlegendre .]

"What's the going price per gallon of sperm whale oil?"

Unless the Braycote products are directly interchangeable with Sperm Whale
oil, how is your comparison even remotely relevant?

They are rendered from entirely different sources. Whale oil is a natural,
animal-derived product that pretty much went out with the depletion of the
resources (and finally, international treaties). P/TFE and MoS2 were
formulated in industrial laboratories, and to this day, are turned out by
industrial processes.

Am I incorrect?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 04/18/2016 07:45 PM, drlegendre . wrote:
> > Forgive my ignorance..
> >
> > What could possibly justify a cost of $25,000 (US) for a liter of
> > this Braycote material? Of course, I'm extrapolating - $25/gm,
> > assuming 1000gm/l.
> >
> > Sounds like a government contract rate to me. MoS2 and TFE-rich
> > lubricants have been readily available for decades - and while they
> > tend to be on the pricier side, I've seen nothing that touches
> > $25-28/gm.
>
> What's the going price per gallon of sperm whale oil?
>
> I'm very careful with PTFE-enhanced lubricants, such as TriFlow--they
> tend, for me, at least, to get gummy.  A good petroleum oil should last
> decades in this particular application.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 04/18/2016 07:45 PM, drlegendre . wrote:
> Forgive my ignorance..
> 
> What could possibly justify a cost of $25,000 (US) for a liter of
> this Braycote material? Of course, I'm extrapolating - $25/gm,
> assuming 1000gm/l.
> 
> Sounds like a government contract rate to me. MoS2 and TFE-rich
> lubricants have been readily available for decades - and while they
> tend to be on the pricier side, I've seen nothing that touches
> $25-28/gm.

What's the going price per gallon of sperm whale oil?

I'm very careful with PTFE-enhanced lubricants, such as TriFlow--they
tend, for me, at least, to get gummy.  A good petroleum oil should last
decades in this particular application.

--Chuck

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[couryhouse]

Yep that's him. Attended one of his show in maybe 1980? Had a van load of power 
supplies for 8 inch sugart.. drives.  They were new and surplused by intel..in 
phxWe sold everyone!  It was a great show. Wonder what h e is up to now 


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Fred Cisin  
Date: 4/18/2016  7:52 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festivals??? 

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, couryhouse wrote:
> Are we talking  John Craig who used to have the 59 el camino?...ed#

No idea what he was driving.

It was 35 years ago, so a 59 El Camino was certainly possible.

I think that he was also one of the publishers of Infoworld, if that helps 
you track him down.   But there were also a lot of other John Craigs.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[couryhouse]

Sellam why has he retired?? He was also selling off his computers etc.  
Ed#
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Evan Koblentz  
Date: 4/18/2016  3:12 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festivals??? 

> please try it your way ... See how it goes,

This is not "Evan trying it his way." :)  This past weekend was the 21st 
VCF based on the same arrangement (10 West shows until 2007, 11 East 
shows). We're not doing an experiment here. We (not just "Evan") have 
seen what works. Sellam mentored me in Festival management for a few 
years before he trusted me (and now the non-profit) to take over his 
baby. "See how it goes"...? It's been going great for 19 years.


> If left unorganized, it quickly degenerates into very shabby, unsavory 
> junkyard sales of worthless stuff, which is guaranteed to turn off the 
> general public.

Maybe one day we'll have a flea/swap event. Perhaps even include that as 
a separate day before/after the main show. VCF West XI this summer will 
be our standard arrangement (that's already settled). Sellam, the former 
MARCH, and now the non-profit have done plenty of innovative things. For 
example, at East a couple of years ago we added Friday which is devoted 
to technical classes.


> So is consignment sales in a separate area the solution? Might very well be.

It's worked fine for us our East and at all the past West shows. Again, 
something that works well ** twenty-one times ** is probably good. :)

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Fred Cisin]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, couryhouse wrote:

Are we talking  John Craig who used to have the 59 el camino?...ed#


No idea what he was driving.

It was 35 years ago, so a 59 El Camino was certainly possible.

I think that he was also one of the publishers of Infoworld, if that helps 
you track him down.   But there were also a lot of other John Craigs.

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[drlegendre .]

Forgive my ignorance..

What could possibly justify a cost of $25,000 (US) for a liter of this
Braycote material? Of course, I'm extrapolating - $25/gm, assuming 1000gm/l.

Sounds like a government contract rate to me. MoS2 and TFE-rich lubricants
have been readily available for decades - and while they tend to be on the
pricier side, I've seen nothing that touches $25-28/gm.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Eric Korpela 
wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
>
> > I did some research among the antique fan collectors on the web.
> > Here's what's been recommended, in no particular order:
> >
>
> And if you're looking to preserve an extremely valuable museum piece and
> need the ultimate in non-reactive oil or grease, a perfluorinated polyether
> (PFPE) "oil" or one with PTFE nanoparticles is virtually guaranteed not to
> react with anything you might find a computer.  But it is very pricey.  $25
> a gram for Brayco 815z "oil" and $28 a gram for Braycote 601EF or 602EF
> (with MoS2).  The solvent you need in order to remove them is $0.25 a
> gram.   But a gram of this stuff goes a long way.  I'd go with 602EF for
> fan bearings.
>
> But it does somewhat reduce the need to worry about what happens if the
> "oil" gets hot or hits rubber or paper or plastic.  It doesn't dry out,
> evaporate, or gum up at normal temperatures, since it's teflon and
> molysufide microbearings in liquid teflon.  I wouldn't buy it to use for a
> personal machine unless it was one of a kind, or someone at the lab was
> throwing out a tube of out-of-date braycote.  (Which hasn't been the case,
> I don't have a personal stash).
>

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[couryhouse]

Are we talking  John Craig who used to have the 59 el camino?...ed#


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Fred Cisin  
Date: 4/18/2016  4:36 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festivals??? 

> Maybe one day we'll have a flea/swap event. Perhaps even include that as a
> separate day before/after the main show.

It has been a long time.    It has been far too long since VCF (west)

John Craig experienced a process that a friend called "the inevitable 
decline of flea-markets".  They start out as a peer event, where the
attendees and sellers are the same people.  Before long, realities of 
setup call for sellers being allowed in before buyers.   That gives the 
sellers a headstart on buying the best deals.   "We might as well just do 
musical chairs - when the music stop, you take home whatever is on the 
table that you ended up with"

Soon, it attracted vendors who are NOT buyers.  In the case of computer 
swaps, those were the vendors of Taiwan clone systems and parts.  It was
such a good deal for them that more and more of them signed up.  Soon, 
there started to be a shortage of spaces (a delightful prospect for show 
management!).  So, the management created a multi-level pricing for space.
Competing companies offered more and more shows until there was one almost 
every weekend.

Eventually, the show was ALL new item vendors, with hobbyists few and far 
between.  Soon the hobbyist buyers stopped coming.  There was a period of 
time where the show could still appeal to the general public ("great place 
to buy your new computer!"), but after a while, the swaps ceased to exist.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Fred Cisin]

> Q:  policy/attitude/preference:  At some swaps in the distant past,
> there were limits (dozen items?) posed on amount any one person could
> put in consignment.  Are you wanting to INCREASE the consignmentvolume?
> I would love to just handoff a small station wagon full of stuff to THEM.
The details aren't determined. When we figure it out (available 
consignment space for VCF West) then we'll announce it.


But you probably want to set limits

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, couryhouse wrote:

May want to jury ityou could get loaded up with piles of crap...


I'm not expecting Evan to follow the same rules that Sellam had.
He once rented a truck for taking some piles of crap when I was closing my 
office.



In prior VCFs, I had a helper.  He's dead, and I got stuck with most of 
his crap (including another few dozen boxes of books)

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[Eric Korpela]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> I did some research among the antique fan collectors on the web.
> Here's what's been recommended, in no particular order:
>

And if you're looking to preserve an extremely valuable museum piece and
need the ultimate in non-reactive oil or grease, a perfluorinated polyether
(PFPE) "oil" or one with PTFE nanoparticles is virtually guaranteed not to
react with anything you might find a computer.  But it is very pricey.  $25
a gram for Brayco 815z "oil" and $28 a gram for Braycote 601EF or 602EF
(with MoS2).  The solvent you need in order to remove them is $0.25 a
gram.   But a gram of this stuff goes a long way.  I'd go with 602EF for
fan bearings.

But it does somewhat reduce the need to worry about what happens if the
"oil" gets hot or hits rubber or paper or plastic.  It doesn't dry out,
evaporate, or gum up at normal temperatures, since it's teflon and
molysufide microbearings in liquid teflon.  I wouldn't buy it to use for a
personal machine unless it was one of a kind, or someone at the lab was
throwing out a tube of out-of-date braycote.  (Which hasn't been the case,
I don't have a personal stash).

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[couryhouse]

May want to jury ityou could get loaded up with piles of crap...


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Evan Koblentz  
Date: 4/18/2016  2:54 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festivals??? 

> Q:  policy/attitude/preference:  At some swaps in the distant past,
> there were limits (dozen items?) posed on amount any one person could
> put in consignment.  Are you wanting to INCREASE the consignment volume?
> I would love to just handoff a small station wagon full of stuff to THEM.

The details aren't determined. When we figure it out (available 
consignment space for VCF West) then we'll announce it.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Dave Woyciesjes]

On 04/18/2016 01:47 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

Evan Koblentz wrote:


No, if someone wants to have a new Festival in their area then *we

(Vintage Computer Federation) would run it* with local assistance.


The tone here seems awfully heavy-handed.


And yours now seems pretty snotty.



My personal opinion is that a singular entity running your festival
remotely- particularly with local folks doing most of the leg work- is of
dubious value. It will almost certainly limit the diversity and creative
charm of such events, if not now then in the future. And it's simply more
work for organizers to comply with...

*So Mike, to summarize-- go ahead and do your own show your own way*-- just
don't use Evan's fraternity letters if you do so. Or work with Evan to use
the name "Vintage Computer Festival," if you see your event's value as
contingent on that banner.

I think it's great that you want to start a vintage computing event in
Oklahoma, and would gladly toss you a small donation to help see it come to
fruition.

Cheers,

- Ian

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Evan Koblentz  wrote:


No, it was not trademarked. Not until VERY recently




The legal stuff to do so is underway.







--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech -http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst -http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
   Registered Linux user number 464583

"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

please make sure to have the two areas for those of us who are
hobbyist/enthusiasts!


We always do.

RE: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Adrian Stoness]

All depends

For instance Lego
On Apr 18, 2016 7:33 PM, "Ali"  wrote:

> For VCF-West, I have a ridiculous amount of crap to dispose of.  Far
> too much to burden a consignment group.  Most of it would be very
> cheap, other than the need to make the expenses (direct and incidental)
> of the event.

As a first time attendee I am of course first and foremost excited to see
some of the older systems I have never seen outside of YouTube/pictures.
However, I also wouldn't mind picking up items that I am looking for. Heck,
I am going to be there with a car what better opportunity to transport stuff
and make sure it gets back in one piece. After the last set of fiascos with
all the major shippers (nobody is immune these days) and the rising cost of
shipping (even though gas has been crashing fast) buying items outside of
chips is becoming cost prohibitive!

If VCF feels it would be best to separate the two areas fine - but please
make sure to have the two areas for those of us who are
hobbyist/enthusiasts!

-Ali

RE: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Ali]

> For VCF-West, I have a ridiculous amount of crap to dispose of.  Far
> too much to burden a consignment group.  Most of it would be very
> cheap, other than the need to make the expenses (direct and incidental)
> of the event.

As a first time attendee I am of course first and foremost excited to see
some of the older systems I have never seen outside of YouTube/pictures.
However, I also wouldn't mind picking up items that I am looking for. Heck,
I am going to be there with a car what better opportunity to transport stuff
and make sure it gets back in one piece. After the last set of fiascos with
all the major shippers (nobody is immune these days) and the rising cost of
shipping (even though gas has been crashing fast) buying items outside of
chips is becoming cost prohibitive!

If VCF feels it would be best to separate the two areas fine - but please
make sure to have the two areas for those of us who are
hobbyist/enthusiasts!

-Ali

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Charles Anthony]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

>
>> Eventually, the show was ALL new item vendors, with hobbyists few and far
> between.  Soon the hobbyist buyers stopped coming.  There was a period of
> time where the show could still appeal to the general public ("great place
> to buy your new computer!"), but after a while, the swaps ceased to exist.
>
>
Engineering "Feature Creep" in real life.

-- Charles

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Fred Cisin]

Maybe one day we'll have a flea/swap event. Perhaps even include that as a
separate day before/after the main show.


It has been a long time.It has been far too long since VCF (west)

John Craig experienced a process that a friend called "the inevitable 
decline of flea-markets".  They start out as a peer event, where the
attendees and sellers are the same people.  Before long, realities of 
setup call for sellers being allowed in before buyers.   That gives the 
sellers a headstart on buying the best deals.   "We might as well just do 
musical chairs - when the music stop, you take home whatever is on the 
table that you ended up with"


Soon, it attracted vendors who are NOT buyers.  In the case of computer 
swaps, those were the vendors of Taiwan clone systems and parts.  It was
such a good deal for them that more and more of them signed up.  Soon, 
there started to be a shortage of spaces (a delightful prospect for show 
management!).  So, the management created a multi-level pricing for space.
Competing companies offered more and more shows until there was one almost 
every weekend.


Eventually, the show was ALL new item vendors, with hobbyists few and far 
between.  Soon the hobbyist buyers stopped coming.  There was a period of 
time where the show could still appeal to the general public ("great place 
to buy your new computer!"), but after a while, the swaps ceased to exist.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Mark Linimon]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 06:12:28PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote:
> Maybe one day we'll have a flea/swap event. Perhaps even include that as a
> separate day before/after the main show.

I think that would be a great idea.

I would certainly go to both.

mcl

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Rod Smallwood]

Hi Evan
   Just a quick aside. I am English as you know. We have long 
tradition of debate without malice.
In addition I subscribe to the rule I may not agree with what you say 
but I will defend your right to say it.

I serve on our local council and often have to disagree with close friends.

Now were where we?  Oh yes!  Are you sure its a dumb question ?

Reflect on your answer to my question as which was the more important 
the smooth running of the show or the content.


Think what might have happened if I had stood up in meeting and asked 
for $50K for a show and
 been asked the same question and said the well run show will be more 
important than our new products.


My comments are based on over forty years in the computer industry and  
innumerable

shows that have come and gone.

Regards

Rod



On 18/04/2016 22:58, Evan Koblentz wrote:
But in doing so have those for whom the event was started been cast 
aside

in favor of ma, pa, grandma, the kids  and the dog.


No. That's a dumb question.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[ethan]

I brought some friends with me to VCF East this year. It was their first
VCF East, and first VCF. Two of them help run "share their collection with
the public at large for fun" type events down in Chesapeake Virignia with
the public library and also the computer museum at MAGFest. Another friend 
was blown away that Stewart Cheifet was at VCF east (he agreed to go but 
never looked at schedule) and was also excited to meet the guy behind the 
BBS Documentary and Get Lamp.


One friend is pretty cheap, penny pincher. He has a pretty large
collection of game systems and some classic computers, but started into it 
before the big run-up in prices.


I think I listened to him hem and haw and mentally debate himself over the
TI/99 4A PEB thing for sale for 3 hours. The proprietary PC CD-ROM maybe
got 30 minutes. Kind of amusing, to a point. He had never really coded in 
BASIC, and Friday he jumped in and tried to write stuff on the Apple II 
during the game thing on Friday.


We ended up visiting 2 or 3 thrift stores in the general area (and got my
picture and bought some snacks at the Quick Stop from the movie "Clerks"
which isn't too far from Asbury P!) Silverball pinball museum was another
must-do and this year I noticed a bunch of other VCF'ers there. My friends
talked me into driving to NJ near NYC on Sunday to visit a retail game
store. Friends picked up ~10 Coleco Adam tapes, TI/99 carts, and a few
oddities for Oddysey/Intellavision and maybe some other systems. The only
thing I would be interested in was boxed Space Quest III and Coleco Vision
controllers, the DigitPress store didn't have those.

The swap meet aspect is valued with regards to trying to fill in 
collections.


Action packed weekend!

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Peter Cetinski]

> But in doing so have those for whom the event was started been cast aside
> in favor of ma, pa, grandma, the kids  and the dog.
> 
> Rod Smallwood

Given that 90%+ of the folks who passed by my exhibit were grade A geeks, I 
don't think there is any danger of this.  (Written as a certified geek ... as 
my wife will attest)

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Terry Stewart]

>Over here you have rows and rows of beautiful old cars shining in the sun
(of course at VCF the equipment is running, not just sitting there!),
>and over on the other side you've got people selling stuff. These shows
appeal to a much wider audience than just the people who actually buy
antique cars.

That's a good analogy.  It sums up what can be the dual objectives for
these events.  I imagine it's hard to juggle when you want to do both.
Give hobbiests a chance to interact and swap stories face to face, yet
educate, inform and wow the general public as to where their laptops,
mobile phones and the underline technologies came from.

Now and again in a very loose and general sense some of us in New Zealand
have mused about a New Zealand Vintage Computer festival.  These comments
and points of view are of interest to me.

Terry (Tezza)

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

please try it your way ... See how it goes,


This is not "Evan trying it his way." :)  This past weekend was the 21st 
VCF based on the same arrangement (10 West shows until 2007, 11 East 
shows). We're not doing an experiment here. We (not just "Evan") have 
seen what works. Sellam mentored me in Festival management for a few 
years before he trusted me (and now the non-profit) to take over his 
baby. "See how it goes"...? It's been going great for 19 years.




If left unorganized, it quickly degenerates into very shabby, unsavory junkyard 
sales of worthless stuff, which is guaranteed to turn off the general public.


Maybe one day we'll have a flea/swap event. Perhaps even include that as 
a separate day before/after the main show. VCF West XI this summer will 
be our standard arrangement (that's already settled). Sellam, the former 
MARCH, and now the non-profit have done plenty of innovative things. For 
example, at East a couple of years ago we added Friday which is devoted 
to technical classes.




So is consignment sales in a separate area the solution? Might very well be.


It's worked fine for us our East and at all the past West shows. Again, 
something that works well ** twenty-one times ** is probably good. :)

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

In general, to have VCF shows relegate those folks to the vendor
hall just removes good potential exhibits from the show.


"Relegate" isn't a fair word, Jim. The sales area is * right next to * 
the exhibits area. All I'm saying is we do not want to confuse the 
audience. They need to understand that here are entertaining demos and 
over there are things to buy. When I was young my father always took me 
to antique car shows. It's the perfect analogy for our hobby. Over here 
you have rows and rows of beautiful old cars shining in the sun (of 
course at VCF the equipment is running, not just sitting there!), and 
over on the other side you've got people selling stuff. These shows 
appeal to a much wider audience than just the people who actually buy 
antique cars.




In the end, given VCF East's stance, I think if I attend in 2017, I'll
just make up an exhibit of my wares, be in the exhibit hall, and just
tell people to meet me at lunch or after the show to buy the stuff.


That's fine.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

But in doing so have those for whom the event was started been cast aside
in favor of ma, pa, grandma, the kids  and the dog.


No. That's a dumb question.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

Q:  policy/attitude/preference:  At some swaps in the distant past,
there were limits (dozen items?) posed on amount any one person could
put in consignment.  Are you wanting to INCREASE the consignment volume?
I would love to just handoff a small station wagon full of stuff to THEM.


The details aren't determined. When we figure it out (available 
consignment space for VCF West) then we'll announce it.

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[Chuck Guzis]

I did some research among the antique fan collectors on the web.
Here's what's been recommended, in no particular order:

1. SAE 20 *non-detergent* motor oil
2. Turbine oil (ISO 32 SAE 15)
3. 3-in-1 Electric Motor Oil (SAE 20) *note* Not the multipurpose "red
can" stuff, but the blue can motor oil.
4.  Royal Purple Synthetic INDUSTRIAL oil ISO 68 ~ SAE 25
5.  Lithium grease in an aerosol spray--what I use.  Be sure to shake
the can before application.

FWIW,
Chuck

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Curious Marc]

On Apr 18, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Evan Koblentz  wrote:

> We have a good reason for doing this.
> 
> Events that mix sales/exhibits together, without making distinctions from 
> booth to booth, tend to become flea/swap-type events. That's fine for those 
> of us IN the hobby, but these events will only ever shrink, not grow, as the 
> audience/collectors get older.
> 
> Our goal at VCF is to produce awesome events that show vintage computing to 
> people * beyond * hobby insiders.

Within reason, the ones putting the hard work into the event should try to 
shape it according to their vision of what they think will make it better. I 
think it's even a duty. So Evan, thanks for doing this, please try it your way. 
See how it goes, consider feedback of this very vocal group without being too 
defensive, adjust for next time, repeat until it gets better...

Now talking from the other side of my mouth. I agree with others that the 
swap/sale part is an important part (and attraction) of our hands-on and 
relatively affordable tech hobby. A lot of people would come for that, and it 
already sustains respectably sized businesses in our area (Halted, Weird Stuff, 
etc...). So we can't ignore it. But I also agree with Evan's points. If left 
unorganized, it quickly degenerates into very shabby, unsavory junkyard sales 
of worthless stuff, which is guaranteed to turn off the general public. Sure 
turned me off at other events to see piles of depressing junk right next to 
superbly restored hardware, although I *did* buy... So is consignment sales in 
a separate area the solution? Might very well be. Should booth of sellers be 
allowed if they meet certain standards? Our local "cleaner" Silicon Valley pros 
like WeirdStuff, SVC, Jameco and Anchor, to name a few, would probably pay a 
bit of $ to be part of this, and not detract at all. And maybe some 
independents if they pass some non-junk sniff test, or semi-organized "per 
brand" booth sales? But it would be harder to setup than the simple idea of 
consignment sales. Maybe to consider in the future.

So, not having a better idea, not doing the hard work, and wanting to encourage 
the overall goal of making it better, I am all for supporting Evan's plan and 
see how it goes.

Marc

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Rod Smallwood]

On 18/04/2016 20:43, Evan Koblentz wrote:

Which is the better "It was a well run show" or "I saw a guy who rebuilt
an 029 card punch"


Talk to me after you've organized nine VCFs, then you will think 
different about the first part of your comment. :)
Well I haven't done any VCF's  but as a DEC Marketing Manager I was 
involved in many more than nine computer trade shows.
It's not surprising and very laudable to want to make the show be the 
best you can.  However once something intended  as a gathering of 
enthusiasts and pioneers turns into a general "bring the family" show 
with good signage

and marked areas.  Then I  fear for the future.  Its happened before.

Here in the UK the Ham Radio hobby used to have lots of what were called 
rallies. Just another name for a hobby show

Lots of surplus parts, radios dealers who just sold ham equipment and so on.

They grew in number and size. Lots of so called attractions, crafts and 
cake stalls were added.  Then one year they imploded. The hams who used 
to go to by a few parts and meet friends and the ham related vendors had 
had enough and did not attend.  The number plummeted and now there are 
only a few.


So to quote American western lore. When the farmers arrive and enclose 
and manage the range the pioneers go over the hill.


So enjoy your well deserved pleasure in a job well done. But ask 
yourself  do men who inhabit basements full of piles of old computers 
care about what is where and how tidy the show is? Belshazzar's  feast 
may have already begun,


That the show's (in show organizers terms) are well run is not in doubt.
But in doing so have those for whom the event was started been cast aside
in favor of ma, pa, grandma, the kids  and the dog.

Rod Smallwood

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[william degnan]

> But I don't think our hobby will ever be very mainstream, and indeed
> I'm not sure it even makes sense, since so much of what makes us
> distinctive is that we play with non-mainstream or no-longer-mainstream
> stuff.  So it seems to me that trying to attract the mainstream is
> going to either fail or end up producing something very different.
> (Not that something different is necessarily bad, of course, but it is,
> well, _different_, not what we here have.)  Most/all of us got here
> without being wowed in the mainstream sense by a classic computer show,
> after all.
>

To run a successful museum you have to cater at least somewhat to the
general public.  There will always be some degree of interest in old tech
by the general public. Most museums of old tech, cars, and such include
social references and props to help depict the context of the thing, what
was happening when...

What's nice about the vcf event is that they're a couple clicks more techie
than your general science event or even a makerfaire.  There is nothing
like the vcf event.  Evan worked tirelessly to make the latest successful.

Bill

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net

Re: Any info on MTI 240 drive emulator?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
>> I have a box at home with _a_ SDI->ESDI board and two 600MB ESDI
>> drives.  I will see about cracking it open to see what's inside.
>
> Thanks.  Even lacking docs, if you have the same (or similar) SDI->ESDI
> board that's in mine it would be useful to know.  It'd probably also be
> interesting to know what model drives you have in there.

Sure thing.  I don't know model numbers off the top of my head, but
the drives are whatever 5.25" full-height ESDI drives would have been
common in that era, and I can take a photo of any jumpers.

-ethan

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Fred Cisin]

For VCF-West, I have a ridiculous amount of crap to dispose of

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Evan Koblentz wrote:
Looking forward to seeing you there. I encourage you to sell as much as 
possible in consignment as long as it's on-topic. :)


Q:  policy/attitude/preference:  At some swaps in the distant past, there 
were limits (dozen items?) posed on amount any one person could put in 
consignment.  Are you wanting to INCREASE the consignment volume?

I would love to just handoff a small station wagon full of stuff to THEM.

In the unlikely event that I can get organized (Hah!), am healthy (not 
likely), and can round up sufficient help and transport at the right times 
(not a chance), I have enough crap to fill many pallets.  Such as enough 
computer related books to fill >100 boxes (check archives for "FPUIB" for 
a start)   Severe storage shortages meant that I had to discard things 
such as the MicroPro PBM-1000s, . . .



Anybody here remember John Craig "Computer Swap America" at the San Jose 
fairgrounds?  (later squeezed out by "NW Computer Swap" at San Mateo, 
etc.)Long ago, he and I had a chat and decided that the crap that I 
had at that time fell in between his categories of "commercial" V 
"Individual", so by mutual agreement, I alternated renting "commercial" 
and "individual" booths.  The commercial stuff (such as crates of 300 baud 
modems) is long gone.



Now it's all crap to get rid of.  Not ALL for free: very early 5150, but 
"upgraded" to silver colored power supply, etc., Epson QX-10, Sony SMC-70, 
Toshiba T300 (720K 5.25") MS-DOS but not very PC compatible (I patched 
PC-Write to run on it). . .


In addition to the computer stuff (VCF), I need to find venues for other 
crap, such as enlargers, stabilization processors, little motorized movie 
film processing tank, VW license plate light with backup lights, . . .




--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Any info on MTI 240 drive emulator?

[Josh Dersch]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:
> > Hi all --
> >
> > I just picked up an interesting device, it appears to be a drive emulator
> > that adapts DEC SDI to either ESDI or MFM drives (I would guess ESDI,
> but no
> > real way to be sure.)  It's manufactured by "Micro Technology" and is
> > labeled as an "MDI 240" on the front.  (On the rear as "SPEC.MDI-240",
> P/N
> > "970176-000".)
>
> I have a box at home with _a_ SDI->ESDI board and two 600MB ESDI
> drives.  I will see about cracking it open to see what's inside.
>
> I would have no docs, though... mine came to me in working order and I
> just plugged it in.  I'm using it with a KDB50 and my VAX8300.  No
> funny business.  It just works.
>

Thanks.  Even lacking docs, if you have the same (or similar) SDI->ESDI
board that's in mine it would be useful to know.  It'd probably also be
interesting to know what model drives you have in there.

- Josh



>
> -ethan
>

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Mouse]

> Which is the better "It was a well run show" or "I saw a guy who
> rebuilt an 029 card punch"

It depends on what your goal is.

If you're trying to run something fleamarketish for those already at
least partly inside the hobby, probably the latter.

If you're trying to attract new people to the hobby...well, it strikes
me as at least plausible that it's the former.

But I don't think our hobby will ever be very mainstream, and indeed
I'm not sure it even makes sense, since so much of what makes us
distinctive is that we play with non-mainstream or no-longer-mainstream
stuff.  So it seems to me that trying to attract the mainstream is
going to either fail or end up producing something very different.
(Not that something different is necessarily bad, of course, but it is,
well, _different_, not what we here have.)  Most/all of us got here
without being wowed in the mainstream sense by a classic computer show,
after all.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[couryhouse]

Agreed. The   vintage camera shows do it the same way.  Ed#


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Evan Koblentz  
Date: 4/18/2016  11:52 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festivals??? 

>Still, calling a hobbyist who
> sells some of his creations a vendor is a dubious distinction, in my
> opinion, since no one is making much money on these things, it's just a
> service for fellow enthusiasts. All of the other shows I attend (like
> the upcoming CocoFEST!) make no distinction.

We have a good reason for doing this.

Events that mix sales/exhibits together, without making distinctions 
from booth to booth, tend to become flea/swap-type events. That's fine 
for those of us IN the hobby, but these events will only ever shrink, 
not grow, as the audience/collectors get older.

Our goal at VCF is to produce awesome events that show vintage computing 
to people * beyond * hobby insiders.

When people who have casual interest attend a VCF, they're not going to 
come back if the room is a big confusing mix of exhibits and stuff for 
sale. These people -- a massive audience vs. the few of us active 
collectors -- aren't attending to find memory for their Banana 3000. 
They're attending to be wowed.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

Which is the better "It was a well run show" or "I saw a guy who rebuilt
an 029 card punch"


Talk to me after you've organized nine VCFs, then you will think 
different about the first part of your comment. :)

RE: ISO: Fujitsu M228x power supply (Josh Dersch)

[Earl Baugh]

>
> Another weekend acquisition is a Fujitsu M2284 SMD drive (14" platters
> under a transparent cover, what's not to love?).  It's in good shape and
> was properly locked down for shipping so there's a good chance it'll
> still work with some coaxing.  I'm missing the power supply, however.  I
> believe this is the Fujitsu Denso B14L-0300-0018A.  Anyone have one
> going spare, in any condition?


If this is the same drive as the Sun 1's, I actually have 2 spares right
this min.
(I am waiting to find out about someone locally who has some Fujitsu drives,
which I haven't gotten model #'s from, but from description sound similar...
so was keeping them for those drives... )

Mine are NOS, were spares from someone who used to do field engineering
repairs on early Sun equipment.

I might be persuaded to part with one, contact me off line..

Earl

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

Still, part of it seems like something that the primary local organizers should 
be able to weigh in on


Of course. Local flavor is a good thing. There is plenty of it here in 
NJ and there will be plenty this summer in California.




I suppose I just wish this singular VCF banner and a focused intent behind it 
had been enforced better from the start


I completely agree. Frankly, I think Sellam wishes he'd have done that. 
But we cannot change the past, so the new non-profit is looking forward 
instead. :)

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Rod Smallwood]

On 18/04/2016 19:31, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
I understand the desire to having a separate vendor area so as to 
keep the exhibit area a bit “neater” and more focused on demos rather 
than selling/trading. It is a tradeoff and I agree it’s a choice that 
folks have to make if they want to exhibit or vend (ie without a 
number of folks it’s hard to “do both”).


Howzbout: have the two areas contiguous, with some portions explicitly 
one or the other, and a middle area that is mixed? That allows for the 
people who have something to SHOW, AND have a workroom to clear out.



For VCF-West, I have a ridiculous amount of crap to dispose of. Far 
too much to burden a consignment group.  Most of it would be very 
cheap, other than the need to make the expenses (direct and 
incidental) of the event.



For crying out loud guys. Its a hobby show!
Minimum organization maximum participation.
Book a bit of floor space.
Show, Sell, Show and Tell, What the hell!
Its what you _do_ not where you stand that counts.
We are trying to preserve technology that's disappearing faster than 
morning mist in summer.

Focus on the main mission. Legal and Decent is all the control that's need.
Which is the better "It was a well run show" or "I saw a guy who rebuilt 
an 029 card punch"


Rod Smallwood

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Ian Finder]

Evan wrote:
>> When people who have casual interest attend a VCF, they're not going to come 
>> back if the room is a big confusing mix of exhibits and stuff for sale. 
>> These people -- a massive audience vs. the few of us active collectors -- 
>> aren't attending to find memory for their Banana 3000. They're attending to 
>> be wowed.

Evan, I think your point above is totally valid- I agree with you 100%- it's 
the right decision.

Still, part of it seems like something that the primary local organizers should 
be able to weigh in on based on their idea of the intent of the event-- but 
then they are also free to not use / adulterate the VCF trademark, which is 
only fair.

I suppose I just wish this singular VCF banner and a focused intent behind it 
had been enforced better from the start, and my main criticism is just that at 
this point VCF and the phrase "vintage computer festival" seem awful generic.

No easy solution...

Cheers,

- Ian

Sent from Outlook for iPhone

_
From: Evan Koblentz mailto:cct...@snarc.net>>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:52
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>


>Still, calling a hobbyist who> sells some of his creations a vendor is a 
>dubious distinction, in my> opinion, since no one is making much money on 
>these things, it's just a> service for fellow enthusiasts. All of the other 
>shows I attend (like> the upcoming CocoFEST!) make no distinction.We have a 
>good reason for doing this.Events that mix sales/exhibits together, without 
>making distinctions from booth to booth, tend to become flea/swap-type events. 
>That's fine for those of us IN the hobby, but these events will only ever 
>shrink, not grow, as the audience/collectors get older.Our goal at VCF is to 
>produce awesome events that show vintage computing to people * beyond * hobby 
>insiders. When people who have casual interest attend a VCF, they're not going 
>to come back if the room is a big confusing mix of exhibits and stuff for 
>sale. These people -- a massive audience vs. the few of us active collectors 
>-- aren't attending to find memory for their Banana 3000. They're attending to 
>be wowed.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

For VCF-West, I have a ridiculous amount of crap to dispose of


Looking forward to seeing you there. I encourage you to sell as much as 
possible in consignment as long as it's on-topic. :)

Reality check: VCF isn't O'Reilly

[Evan Koblentz]

It's important to keep in mind that Maker Faire is a corporate thing 
with a full-time staff, while VCF is a small non-profit thing with a 
handful of devoted volunteers.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

Still, calling a hobbyist who
sells some of his creations a vendor is a dubious distinction, in my
opinion, since no one is making much money on these things, it's just a
service for fellow enthusiasts. All of the other shows I attend (like
the upcoming CocoFEST!) make no distinction.


We have a good reason for doing this.

Events that mix sales/exhibits together, without making distinctions 
from booth to booth, tend to become flea/swap-type events. That's fine 
for those of us IN the hobby, but these events will only ever shrink, 
not grow, as the audience/collectors get older.


Our goal at VCF is to produce awesome events that show vintage computing 
to people * beyond * hobby insiders.


When people who have casual interest attend a VCF, they're not going to 
come back if the room is a big confusing mix of exhibits and stuff for 
sale. These people -- a massive audience vs. the few of us active 
collectors -- aren't attending to find memory for their Banana 3000. 
They're attending to be wowed.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Fred Cisin]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
I understand the desire to having a separate vendor area so as to keep 
the exhibit area a bit “neater” and more focused on demos rather 
than selling/trading.  It is a tradeoff and I agree it’s a choice that 
folks have to make if they want to exhibit or vend (ie without a number 
of folks it’s hard to “do both”).


Howzbout: have the two areas contiguous, with some portions explicitly one 
or the other, and a middle area that is mixed?  That allows for the people 
who have something to SHOW, AND have a workroom to clear out.



For VCF-West, I have a ridiculous amount of crap to dispose of.  Far too 
much to burden a consignment group.  Most of it would be very cheap, other 
than the need to make the expenses (direct and incidental) of the event.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Apr 18, 2016, at 11:12 AM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
> 
> A larger concern for me would be what is implied in the "VCF would 'run' 
> it...".  For instance, while I do not begrudge the VCF East config per se, 
> it's tough for a combo exhibitor/vendor, and I know that's not going to 
> change, as per the board's wishes.  Still, calling a hobbyist who sells some 
> of his creations a vendor is a dubious distinction, in my opinion, since no 
> one is making much money on these things, it's just a service for fellow 
> enthusiasts. All of the other shows I attend (like the upcoming CocoFEST!) 
> make no distinction.  Thus, if VCF running the show means that all future 
> shows have to have a separate vendor area, that would detract from my 
> attendance.  I realize I'm just one enthusiast, but I feel it's useful to 
> share at least my opinion.

I understand the desire to having a separate vendor area so as to keep the 
exhibit area a bit “neater” and more focused on demos rather than 
selling/trading.  It is a tradeoff and I agree it’s a choice that folks have to 
make if they want to exhibit or vend (ie without a number of folks it’s hard to 
“do both”).

> 
> I also think it would be a mistake to make all the shows too "homogenized" in 
> format, if that's a goal in this directive.  Some folks attend multiple 
> shows, and the variety I think would be of benefit.
> 
> 

Unlike most commercial “shows” where it’s the same vendors/exhibitors at each, 
VCF *will* be different because you’ll have different vendors/exhibitors 
showing up that tend to be from the “local” geographic area.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[ethan]

The tone here seems awfully heavy-handed.


Naw, it's not a bad thing. Whomever made the first named Vintage Computing 
Festival handed it off, and if someone wants to maintain control and keep 
order that isn't a bad thing.


In Norfolk I helped run (to the point of signing the contract with the 
city venue) two Mini-Maker Faires that were pretty decent in size. 
O'Reilly Publishing owns Maker Faire, Mini Maker Faire, etc. It was good 
from the perspective of kicking something off that was totally awesome and 
making things go. There was strict controls over artwork, domain names, 
web site CMS / theme etc. They just don't want people doing things that 
would harm the hard work they put into building their brand and their 
thing. It's tough when you have rando's trying to do things, not everyone 
uses good judgement.



My personal opinion is that a singular entity running your festival
remotely- particularly with local folks doing most of the leg work- is of
dubious value. It will almost certainly limit the diversity and creative
charm of such events, if not now then in the future. And it's simply more
work for organizers to comply with...


This was kind of the case with us and Makerfaire, we did all the work but 
it looked good. The flip side was using the branding from Make Magazine 
didn't really help us that much. The #1 source of marketing was Facebook, 
it blew away our mention in local print media and everything else. One 
thing that kind of gave an upset stomach was the 2nd year there was a 
per-attendee license fee that we had to pay to O'Reilly/Make Magazine. 
This kind of sucked because we were a free event to the public. We had to 
raise around $7000 in sponsorship money to pay for the venue (which took 
a ton of work.) The venue along with many others were in a ticketmaster 
contract so in order to do online paid ticketing using the chosen system 
(Eventbright) we would of had to buy out the ticket master contract first. 
So the middle finger to that is go free. Other makerfaires were pulling in 
a good chunk of money but were in areas with more support than Norfolk VA, 
and at venues not locked into contracts -- which can be tougher to secure.


Events are a pain to run!

I also have a 2nd row seat to a 20,000 person gaming music and 
gaming festival that grew organically. That one is hell :-) The 
payback is when you run into random people and they talk about how much 
they liked the event.




*So Mike, to summarize-- go ahead and do your own show your own way*-- just
don't use Evan's fraternity letters if you do so. Or work with Evan to use
the name "Vintage Computer Festival," if you see your event's value as
contingent on that banner.


That sounds ok?


--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Jim Brain]

On 4/18/2016 12:47 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

Evan Koblentz wrote:


No, if someone wants to have a new Festival in their area then *we

(Vintage Computer Federation) would run it* with local assistance.

---

The tone here seems awfully heavy-handed.
I am assuming Evan's just short on sleep at present, and that the 
response would be more diplomatic if not for recent events.  But, if 
that is the will and perspective of the foundation board, I can 
definitely see problems.


VCF is a good name, to be sure, but I think you are correct that a show 
could call itself "Classic Computer Fest" and have similar crowds.  
Heck, most of the folks know the MW show as the ECCC (which technically 
stands for Emergency Commodore Commodore Computer) which proves that the 
name has limited value other than it's a placeholder to mark the date(s)


A larger concern for me would be what is implied in the "VCF would 'run' 
it...".  For instance, while I do not begrudge the VCF East config per 
se, it's tough for a combo exhibitor/vendor, and I know that's not going 
to change, as per the board's wishes.  Still, calling a hobbyist who 
sells some of his creations a vendor is a dubious distinction, in my 
opinion, since no one is making much money on these things, it's just a 
service for fellow enthusiasts. All of the other shows I attend (like 
the upcoming CocoFEST!) make no distinction.  Thus, if VCF running the 
show means that all future shows have to have a separate vendor area, 
that would detract from my attendance.  I realize I'm just one 
enthusiast, but I feel it's useful to share at least my opinion.


I also think it would be a mistake to make all the shows too 
"homogenized" in format, if that's a goal in this directive.  Some folks 
attend multiple shows, and the variety I think would be of benefit.




Jim

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

No, if someone wants to have a new Festival in their area then *we

(Vintage Computer Federation) would run it* with local assistance.

---

The tone here seems awfully heavy-handed.


YOU added the emphasis.

"Vintage Computer Festival" is a brand that will turn 20 years old next 
year. There is tremendous value for being associated with it. We do all 
the marketing, write the checks, and so on. If someone wants to find out 
how much work it is to start a successful event, then I wish them the 
best of luck.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Ian Finder]

Evan Koblentz wrote:

>>> No, if someone wants to have a new Festival in their area then *we
(Vintage Computer Federation) would run it* with local assistance.

---

The tone here seems awfully heavy-handed.

My personal opinion is that a singular entity running your festival
remotely- particularly with local folks doing most of the leg work- is of
dubious value. It will almost certainly limit the diversity and creative
charm of such events, if not now then in the future. And it's simply more
work for organizers to comply with...

*So Mike, to summarize-- go ahead and do your own show your own way*-- just
don't use Evan's fraternity letters if you do so. Or work with Evan to use
the name "Vintage Computer Festival," if you see your event's value as
contingent on that banner.

I think it's great that you want to start a vintage computing event in
Oklahoma, and would gladly toss you a small donation to help see it come to
fruition.

Cheers,

- Ian

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Evan Koblentz  wrote:

> No, it was not trademarked. Not until VERY recently
>>
>
> The legal stuff to do so is underway.
>


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Vintage Computer Forum

[Evan Koblentz]

Rod: Email me privately (e...@vcfed.org) and I'll fix your VC Forum problem.

Was at VCF East for the past several days and wasn't checking cctalk at all.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

No, it was not trademarked. Not until VERY recently


The legal stuff to do so is underway.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

It is a trademark, but I have no idea what the terms are.  Evan? did not
apparently have much difficulty negotiating with Sellam to use the
trademark.


Sellam is no longer involved in ownership or management.

Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 non-profit. We own VCF East, VCF 
West, the VC Forum, and all future shows.


VCF Southeast, Midwest, and the European shows are independent, per 
deals Sellam made before he stepped aside.

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Evan Koblentz]

If he wants to use the VCF name, then he should talk tothose currently
doing it.


Correct.



Is it a trademark like Maker Faire where everyone has to pay
per-attendee royalties to use the name on their event?


No, if someone wants to have a new Festival in their area then we 
(Vintage Computer Federation) would run it with local assistance.


We get a lot of requests from people who want a festival in their city. 
The challenge is twofold: finding local people who have the skills/time 
to help run it, and making sure there's enough local audience to attend.


Anybody who wants more information should contact me privately at 
e...@vcfed.org.

Re: Vintage Computer Forum

[Evan Koblentz]

Tried that again same result no email.


It's probably caught in your spam filter.

Re: Seeking immediate rescue of full-rack SGI ONYX near Northbrook, IL

[Ian Finder]

Thank you all, and thanks Jay West for this wonderful venue.

Less than 24 hours later the machine is spoken for, and I'm very excited
about where it is going.

Another day, another rescue... :)

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Ian Finder  wrote:

> Does not require three phase.
>
> Complete system, includes sirius video and other fun stuff.
> RealityEngine2
>
> Needs to be gone in a week or two- had made other arrangements but they
> have fallen through.
>
> Call Ian - two two four 659 four two zero 4
>
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Any info on MTI 240 drive emulator?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:
> Hi all --
>
> I just picked up an interesting device, it appears to be a drive emulator
> that adapts DEC SDI to either ESDI or MFM drives (I would guess ESDI, but no
> real way to be sure.)  It's manufactured by "Micro Technology" and is
> labeled as an "MDI 240" on the front.  (On the rear as "SPEC.MDI-240", P/N
> "970176-000".)

I have a box at home with _a_ SDI->ESDI board and two 600MB ESDI
drives.  I will see about cracking it open to see what's inside.

I would have no docs, though... mine came to me in working order and I
just plugged it in.  I'm using it with a KDB50 and my VAX8300.  No
funny business.  It just works.

-ethan

Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???

[Ian Finder]

I think it's great that they have a trademark now on what could easily be a
genericized term.

My favorite part of the retrocomputing hobby by far is red
tape, franchising, and branding.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Jay West  wrote:

> No, it was not trademarked. Not until VERY recently, even if so. I'm not
> convinced it is
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred
> Cisin
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 8:08 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festivals???
>
> >> If he comes up with his own name, then there is nothing stopping him
> >> from putting it together completely independently.
> >> If he wants to use the VCF name, then he should talk tothose
> >> currently doing it.
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016, et...@757.org wrote:
> > Is it a trademark like Maker Faire where everyone has to pay
> > per-attendee royalties to use the name on their event?
>
> It is a trademark, but I have no idea what the terms are.  Evan? did not
> apparently have much difficulty negotiating with Sellam to use the
> trademark.
>
>
>
>


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[Jon Elson]

On 04/17/2016 08:43 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > From: drlegendre

 > If they use sleeve bearings, take a close look at the material.. does
 > it have the sintered look of oil-impregnated bronze (Oilite)?

It looks like copper, actually; it's quite reddish. (The central pin seems to
be steel of some sort.) But I'm not familiar with Oilite, so I can't say for
sure.
Yes, that is a sintered bronze bushing, made by compressing 
powdered bronze in a press.
The pores allow oil to flow from the cotton packing around 
it to the bushing/journal interface.
If you open one of these up, make sure to oil the cotton 
packing to supply oil gradually to the bearing.


Jon

Re: Atari 800 finally tested, using home theater projector

[Pete Lancashire]

The 1027's problem is the type 'pallets' fail by falling off. I have not
seen one taken apart
and it was a long time ago I was offered one. It would be interesting to
see if one could
rebuild them.

BTW the Teletype 40's have a similar issue, the type belt disintegrates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFqEgpSXnNo

one that has not yet come apart, sadly needs a new ribbon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwLbpr6yLo

The plotter is pretty cool considering what a commercial one cost.



On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:

> Perhaps five years ago, a friend gave me some Atari 8-bit gear,
> including an 800, 800XL, 1020 plotter, 1027 letter-quality printer
> (which is undoubtedly no good now), and a 1050 floppy drive, but no
> software. The stuff has been in storage in my mother's basement until
> recently. I just kludged up a composite video cable for it, and tested
> it on a home theater projector. Without software, I can only test it
> with the built-in "Memo Pad", but it seems to work:
>
>   https://www.flickr.com/photos/22368471@N04/25892477424/
>
> Now I'll look for BASIC and Star Raiders cartridges. It should be fun
> playing Star Raiders on the big screen. That was the first game I ever
> played on an Atari 800, back in 1979.
>
>

RE: HP 9845B Power Supply Unit

[tony duell]

> Hi,
> 
> a recently acquired HP 9845B desktop computer came with a literally broken
> power supply unit.

The HP9845B PSU is very complicated, IIRC it's actually 2 SMPUs and has 
various switching regulators on some of the outputs too. It is also painful
to test as you can't get to it when it is plugged into the machine.

> One of the ferrite core transformers has a broken core. The lower, U-shaped
> core part is broken in the middle into two parts.  Both parts are still
> there, rattling around in the coil part / transformer fixture. I do not
> think that I could find a new matching core.

My guess is that this is one of the main chopper transformers. They are
going to be somewhat critical I think.

> I am not sure of the magneto-electrical requirements and would like to hear
> about your experience or opinions:
> - should I glue the broken ferrite core with e.g. super-glue or epoxy (of
> course with ideally zero or minimum gap between the halves) ?

If it is a clean break then this is probably the best solution as it will have 
the least effect on the magnetic properties of the core. I think a 'thin'
adhesive of the iso-cyano acryllic hydro-copolymerising type (aka
'superglue') would be better than an epoxy resin here.


> - would it work or are there better ways to fix broken ferrite cores (e.g.
> adding a steel wire insert or something like that?)

I would not try to add any other metals, which will have an effect on the 
magentic properties of the core, may increase losses, and nasty things
like that.

-tony

HP 9845B Power Supply Unit

[Martin.Hepperle]

Hi,

a recently acquired HP 9845B desktop computer came with a literally broken
power supply unit.

One of the ferrite core transformers has a broken core. The lower, U-shaped
core part is broken in the middle into two parts.  Both parts are still
there, rattling around in the coil part / transformer fixture. I do not
think that I could find a new matching core.

I am not sure of the magneto-electrical requirements and would like to hear
about your experience or opinions:
- should I glue the broken ferrite core with e.g. super-glue or epoxy (of
course with ideally zero or minimum gap between the halves) ?
- would it work or are there better ways to fix broken ferrite cores (e.g.
adding a steel wire insert or something like that?)

Thanks,
Martin Hepperle

Re: Fan bearing lubricant was Re: WD-40 (again)

[Dale H. Cook]

At 08:22 PM 4/17/2016, drlegendre wrote:

>... does it have the sintered look of oil-impregnated bronze (Oilite)?

If the bearing is bronze do not use ordinary motor oil, as its sulphur content 
may attack the bronze.

Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 

ISO: Fujitsu M228x power supply

[Josh Dersch]

Another weekend acquisition is a Fujitsu M2284 SMD drive (14" platters 
under a transparent cover, what's not to love?).  It's in good shape and 
was properly locked down for shipping so there's a good chance it'll 
still work with some coaxing.  I'm missing the power supply, however.  I 
believe this is the Fujitsu Denso B14L-0300-0018A.  Anyone have one 
going spare, in any condition?


Thanks,
Josh