Re: PDP-6s at MIT
* On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 03:00:01PM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote: > The meter didn't show up well in that, and it's too cool to miss, so here: > > http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/SysConMeter.jpg > > is a shot of it. That's brilliant. I love that meter, and now I kind of want to make one of my very own. > Noel -Seth -- Seth Morabito w...@loomcom.com
Re: Transporting an LGP-30
On 2016-Dec-23, at 4:14 PM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> >>> On 12/23/2016 08:06 AM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote: Hi Folks, I recently became the owner of an LGP-30, supposedly in 'working' condition. However, the machine is roughly 2000 miles from me and will need to be transported by freight. Before it's palletized, are there any special precautions I should take to ensure its safe travel. I'm especially worried about the drum (drum lock?), but haven't been able to find a maintenance or setup doc. Anyone out there with experience or can offer a few pointers? >>> >>> Is this the LGP-30 that came up for auction in Canada? >>> >>> Personally, I'd buy a plane ticket and supervise the packing. There >>> are, IIRC, 110 or so tubes, a drum and other goodies that should >>> probably be removed and shipped separately. Nothing like getting a box >>> o' broken glass to make life interesting. >>> > > Well, I think you guys have convinced me that a trip is in order. Better safe > than sorry with a piece of equipment like this. > > Yep Chuck, this is the CA machine. I was surprised it never reared its head > on classiccmp the past few days. -C Was this ebayed? Just found this mention on VCFed from a week ago: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55364-1956-Binary-Desk-Computer-LIBRASCOPE-LGP-30 I see Vancouver is mentioned: "I've been told that this was the oldest computer in Vancouver" As a lifelong area resident, I'd be interested in hearing anything known of the lineage, where it came from and when it left Vancouver. Would love to have worked on it if it was once nearby. Congrats to Cory for the acquisition, should be an exciting project.
Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?
On 12/23/2016 02:30 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> At the time, I was in my (almost) young teens - and at least in the >> circles >> I traveled, the TRS-80 / Osborne and Kaypro were viewed as boring, >> stodgy >> machines without any redeeming entertainment qualities - no color >> graphics, >> no sprites, poor or nearly non-existent audio, expensive joysticks >> and so >> on. > > Boring, certainly. > Not sure if it was sophisticated enough to be stodgy. > As Z80 machnes of the day the Kaypro was meant for work and screen games like Adventure played well on it as it was responsive. But there was always a divide between games/graphics/sound and those with good text terminal. An example of oddballs was S100 Cromemco with a dazzler and terminal board . >> The ability of the machines to serve multiple roles - for both 'serious' >> work and video gaming / music - was a huge selling point in the early >> days. >> This is one of the reasons that the C64 was so massively successful - it >> pretty much had something for everyone, as the saying goes. That, and >> the >> price of the base machine was just amazingly low for the time. Ditto for >> the VIC-20. > > Ah! Therein lies the rub. > The TRS-80 wasn't any good for some things. As a primarily > entertainment machine, it was rubbish. No color, no sound, no > joysticks, grossly inadequate graphics. (some of which could be > worked around) > If you were looking for an games/entertainment machine, it would be > outside of the consideration set. Of the set of people looking for a > games/entertainment machine, "NOBODY has one." > Best game on it was "Adventure". Best graphics was Lim's "Android Nim" > Or maybe Startrek. TRS80 was one of the "packaged systems" aka allinone that tried to be broad and mostly was limited at all. > > On the other side of the market, the TRS-80 did not have 80x24 text, > and had a memory map that was incompatible with CP/M. Parasitic > Engineering (Howard Fullmer!) and Omikron, both made [somewhat > expensive] sandwich boards for the TRS-80 to change that memory map, > and to add 8" SSSD drive support. > > Of the original "Big three" (Radio Shack, Apple, Commodore), who came > first, Apple was the only one with entertainment capabilities, but > they priced it out of your market. > All of them were trying to find a market and it was a market that was changing at the same time. > Later, the Commodore Vic-20 and C64 were aimed at your segment of the > market, and priced appropriately. > Radio Shack's later "Color Computer" (6809!) was far more appropriate, > but it also suffered some crippling design decision errors. > And it was late to the game. Cool machine but it misses again. > >> the very early 1980s, when I was about 15, my father decided to buy a >> home computer. (Before that, he had a TI Silent 700 that dialed up to a >> Univac mainframe.) I remember him doing hours of research comparing the >> Apple II, the TRS-80, the Commodore PET, and probably some of the S-100 >> machines. He eventually chose the Heathkit H89. I^@^Yll have to ask him >> exactly why, but I know that he^@^Ys always liked good-quality tools, >> and the combination of the Heathkit design, the Z80 CPU, and CP/M seemed >> like the best combination of tools at the time. > > Apple II, TRS-80, and Commodore PET didn't have 80x24 screen text! > THAT was why my cousin rejected them and went with a Heathkit. > If you want to be able to use it as a terminal, . . . > Yes the H89, DEC Vt180 (costly though), and many others had decent terminal, Good processing and disks. Games not so much. > Later, add-on cards for Apple2 came out for 80 column. > TRS-80 didn't get 80x24 text until the Model 4 (which is what the > Model 3 should have been) (Model 2/12/16 was never intended to be a > "Home" computer, and was marketed for small business) > The TRS80 later mods were late enough to loose presence. Apple With 80x24 helped it firm up its footing as a useful business machine. I still go back at if the desired software was available then the machine was suitable for the Commies and Apples that included games. The other is was Editors, high level languages, spreadsheet, and database, that group favored machine with z80, 6502 and good 80x24 screens. That last group barely included TRS80, Apple with Softcard and all was in, then there were the multitude of other z80 systems that nearly all ran CP/M even if they came with something else. If I had to call a year 1980 was a breakpoint for systems. I will call it the year of rising expectations. It bridges from early 1979 though 1980 in a broad way.If you ran a widely used OS your had a good start. If you ran the popular and desired software you had a good start. The number of CPUs in the running were few and usually Z80 or 6502. The 16biters were being talked about as the next thing but not really there yet. Then it was more about what you did and how well. An example of that is 80x24, if you had sparklies and fla
The CHALLENGER 1P Technical Report
Hi, Please forgive me if this OSI document is already on the web somewhere. I looked but couldn't find it. I have a copy so I scanned it. It can be downloaded at: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-12-25-OSI-CP1-technical-report.htm Feel free to link to it, or place it in other OSI repositories. Merry Xmas Tez
Re: The CHALLENGER 1P Technical Report
Thanks Tez Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Dec 25, 2016 5:02 AM, "Terry Stewart" wrote: > Hi, > > Please forgive me if this OSI document is already on the web somewhere. I > looked but couldn't find it. I have a copy so I scanned it. It can be > downloaded at: > http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-12-25-OSI- > CP1-technical-report.htm > > Feel free to link to it, or place it in other OSI repositories. > > Merry Xmas > > Tez >
Re: The CHALLENGER 1P Technical Report
On 25/12/2016 12:08, "william degnan" wrote: > Thanks Tez > > Bill Degnan > twitter: billdeg > vintagecomputer.net > On Dec 25, 2016 5:02 AM, "Terry Stewart" wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Please forgive me if this OSI document is already on the web somewhere. I >> looked but couldn't find it. I have a copy so I scanned it. It can be >> downloaded at: >> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-12-25-OSI- >> CP1-technical-report.htm >> >> Feel free to link to it, or place it in other OSI repositories. I've got a Challenger 1P, it's on my todo list along with a metric buttload of other things! I love vertical learning curves :) All the best to the other sides of the world. -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?
Re: Transporting an LGP-30
On 12/23/2016 08:06 AM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote: Hi Folks, I recently became the owner of an LGP-30, supposedly in 'working' condition. I worked just a little bit on a Bendix G-15, a machine from about the same vintage. 300 vacuum tubes, about 3000 silicon (I think) diodes, and a drum. Really, there are so MANY parts in a machine of that vintage that would be really tough to get, it could be an incredible project to get it running. The G-15 had an IBM executive typewriter modded as the console, with a box of about 50 telephone relays as the decode/encode matrix, driven by thyratron tubes. Our drum came pre-scored, I think 3 tracks were grooved down to the brass layer. They had REALLY poor sealing of the drum. Part of it was very good, but several large wire bundles came in through a drawn aluminum cover with caterpillar grommets. So, no attempt to seal the drum at all, therefore lots of dirt got in and packed under the fixed heads. Hopefully your LGP-30 has a better arrangement there. But, lots of connectors, tube sockets, and similar parts may be hard to get, not to mention the number of marginal tubes that you might need to replace. I know on the Bendix G-15 the logic was really convoluted, to save tubes. So, they chained several layers of and and or gates together before an amplifying tube, to do as much logic as possible with each tube. Then, of course, you'd need to resurrect some bit of software to do anything meaningful. Wow, sounds like a big project. Jon
Re: PDP-6s at MIT
> On 24 Dec 2016, at 06:00, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > > Lars Brinkhoff wrote: >> I have tried to keep track of all the ITS machines, and where they went. >> https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/181 > > By the way, the Australian ITS called FU is a great mystery. I only > found it mentioned in the ITS source code. Flinders University had a 36 bit system (I’m not sure if it was a KI or KL). I think they were running TOPS-20 on it. I see in the notes the they were running ITS on a KS - seems a rather odd thing to do as they’d invested a lot in there other system but perhaps it was a separate project outside of their main Computer Centre stuff. They had a very innovative medical degree program so perhaps this was associated with it? I remember visiting once for a DECUS meeting - at that stage I was a student at La Trobe University and we had a KI-10 running TOPS-10. For that particular DECUS meeting I’d worked on comparing various ‘systems’ programming languages for ease of use and performance - the list included BCPL. BLISS-10, Simula-67, SAIL, MACRO-10 and Algol-60. As some on the list know, this includes my favourite language which puts me at odds with many within Digital :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: huw.dav...@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne| "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia| air, the sky would be painted green"
Re: Transporting an LGP-30
On 12/25/16 2:20 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > >you'd need to resurrect some bit of software to do anything meaningful. a lot already is on line http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/ ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/lgp30/
Re: Transporting an LGP-30
and this shows the major assemblies http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev/lgp30_40/lgp30_deko.html On 12/25/16 6:00 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > > On 12/25/16 2:20 PM, Jon Elson wrote: >> >> you'd need to resurrect some bit of software to do anything meaningful. > > > a lot already is on line > > http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/ > ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/lgp30/ >
Re: Transporting an LGP-30
On Dec 25, 2016 9:01 PM, "Al Kossow" wrote: > > and this shows the major assemblies > http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev/lgp30_40/lgp30_deko.html > > On 12/25/16 6:00 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > > > On 12/25/16 2:20 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > >> > >> you'd need to resurrect some bit of software to do anything meaningful. > > > > > > a lot already is on line > > > > http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/lgp30/ > > ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/lgp30/ > > > I have most original manuals and a lot of code and notes toom
