RE: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 16 February 2017 06:29 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and > react! > > >> and 5 bit stuff almost unheard-of. > > > > > > In the US, common for hams, not common for computers. Maybe they > were > > common for computers in the early 1960s. > > I think at one time radio amateurs (at least over here) had to use 5 bit ITA2 > machines for RTTY. It may even be to this day that RTTY implies that, and that > ASCII is classed as 'data'. Yes RTTY is de-facto 5-bit. I have never heard plain ASCII being used on-air. In its day AMTOR which uses 5-bit codes and adds error was also popular. The most common ASCII modes were AX25 and TCPIP over AX25. > But the 5 level machines that were used over here > tend to be Creeds (Creed 7s, 75s and 444s mostly). > I think it depends on "when". When RTTY first started Creed 7Bs were common cheap and had governed motors so could be adjusted to run on 45.5 or 50 baud. Later on 75's (which is my favourite) started to become available but many of these had synchronous motors so could not be adjusted. Finally 444's became available. I really don't like the 444 much. The typewriter style type basket seems to be a backward step over the neat single element of the 75... I used a 7B with my "Newbear 7768" 6800 system. > The RSGB (Radio Society of Great Britain, a bit like the ARRL) 'Teleprinter > Handbook' (on RTTY operation) does have some details of things like the > Teletype 28, so I guess some made it over here, but I've yet to see one. > I have seen a couple of 28s crop up on E-Bay and I am sure I have seen one "in the flesh" in some museum.. > > > >> OK, we do see BRPE > >> punches from time to time. > > > > > > I'd really like to get one of those! > > I think shipping one is out of the question. Anyway, mine have 240V 50Hz > motors. > > -tony Dave
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
>> and 5 bit stuff almost unheard-of. > > > In the US, common for hams, not common for computers. Maybe they were > common for computers in the early 1960s. I think at one time radio amateurs (at least over here) had to use 5 bit ITA2 machines for RTTY. It may even be to this day that RTTY implies that, and that ASCII is classed as 'data'. But the 5 level machines that were used over here tend to be Creeds (Creed 7s, 75s and 444s mostly). The RSGB (Radio Society of Great Britain, a bit like the ARRL) 'Teleprinter Handbook' (on RTTY operation) does have some details of things like the Teletype 28, so I guess some made it over here, but I've yet to see one. > >> OK, we do see BRPE >> punches from time to time. > > > I'd really like to get one of those! I think shipping one is out of the question. Anyway, mine have 240V 50Hz motors. -tony
Re: Fwd: ibm 29 (keypunch?)
If was not a 5K mile round trip I could use it to merge together with the one I have to make one good working unit. On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:56 AM, Toby Thain wrote: > Hi, > > Phil emailed me out of the blue -- I'm not interested but anyone on the list > want his 029 keypunch in Ohio? > > --Toby > > > > Forwarded Message > Subject:Fwd: ibm 29 > Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:25:44 -0500 > From: Phil Masturzo > To: t...@telegraphics.com.au > > > > My name is PHiL and I live in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio. I got your email from a > computer museum who thought you may be interested in purchasing my IBM 29 > computer. If so, email me back or call me on my cell > phone at xxx-xxx-, if I can answer any questions you may have. > > Thanks, > > Phil > >
FS: PDP-8 Music System paper tape set
I have a set of paper tapes for the PDP-8 comprising a Music System. There are 8 tapes in a DEC paper tape carrier, all in splendid condition. A couple photos: http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q427/Sellam_Abraham/20170124_144624_HDR_zps1lrtjaum.jpg http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q427/Sellam_Abraham/20170124_144616_HDR_zpsgh6xor0f.jpg I'm asking $200 or best offer. Thanks! Sellam
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:22 AM, Tony Duell wrote: > Over here, the only Teletypes we generally see are Model 33s. Even the > Model > 35 is very uncommon, In my experience, it's the same in the US: the model 33 has always been MUCH more common than the 35. Every model 35 I actually saw in service back in the day was a system console, not for "end users". Presumably it was desired for the system console to be a heavy-duty and high-reliability device, and the model 35 was built like a battleship. Actually, even better than that: it was built like a model 28! Too bad there wasn't (AFAIK) an upper/lower case version of the 35. I've never seen a model 37 or model 38 in person, but it appears that they were light-duty machines like the 33. I used the model 33 a huge amount from 1977 to 1979, but from 1979 to 1982 I mostly used the DEC LA36 DECwriter II and various CRT terminals. and 5 bit stuff almost unheard-of. In the US, common for hams, not common for computers. Maybe they were common for computers in the early 1960s. OK, we do see BRPE > punches from time to time. I'd really like to get one of those!
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
They are really neat looking! Phillipp! http://www.radista.info/tt_units/teleprinter_T-68d.jpg Yes I like the colors! what is the weight! Anyone heading to western US with large suitcase soon? (grin!) Another one our favorite sortta cute teletypes we like here at the SMECC museum is the model 31. we are looking to get all possible variants of this machine. We have some interesting stuff at this link here http://web.archive.org/web/20170103075925/http://www.smecc.org/teletype_mode l_31.htm And... we are interested in more of them, any photos of them or scans of them in various uses to continue to build this section out. Please drop us a line offlist at couryho...@aol.com Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 2/15/2017 11:22:51 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, hac...@hachti.de writes: Hi, On 02/15/2017 03:16 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > there are one of the Siemens teletypes thatprint tape and has a dial > on the front from Germany I have seen very compact nice unit used for > telex I would love to have. It's the t68d. Exists in very different versions. With paper tape, without, with dial, black, brown, etc. I have a few of those. I even have one sitting in Morocco. I brought it there by car...
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
Always good to review what the terms of each is. Newcomersmay not understand completely. Same with photo usage and video and music usage - there are various terms of usage for these media types. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 2/15/2017 9:13:36 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, hac...@hachti.de writes: One should also be aware of the difference between public domain, open source, free software and the different license models and have an understanding of the applicable rights and obligations. Kind regards Philipp
Re: Fwd: Fwd: ibm 29 (keypunch?)
On 2/15/2017 7:56 AM, Toby Thain wrote: Hi, Phil emailed me out of the blue -- I'm not interested but anyone on the list want his 029 keypunch in Ohio? --Toby A bunch of monkeys with a Idea for this great book...
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On 2/15/2017 7:16 AM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: there are one of the Siemens teletypes that print tape and has a dial on the front from Germany I have seen very compact nice unit used for telex I would love to have. shipping on teletypes from overseas is expensive though. If one was local ad inn really nice shape we would be a candidate fro it for the telecom display at SMECC. Hurry up with the RTTY to cctalk mesage system. Ben.
RE: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Mike Stein [mhs.st...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:14 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT! I also attended one of her lectures in my distant youth and was similarly impressed; an exceptional person indeed, especially considering the culture and politics of the day. m - Original Message - From: "Chuck Guzis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT! >I apologize to the list for having made the original post. I had the > privilege of once meeting Dr. Hopper and was quite impressed. > > Again, I did not mean to start a kerfuffle. > > --Chuck > > I have a VCR Tape of one of here talks here somewhere. But I am still waiting to hear what has caused this sudden flurry of Grace Murray Hopper mania considering how muc of our domain (IT) seem to want her accomplishments to just dry up and blow away. bill
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
On Wed, 2/15/17, jim stephens wrote: > I saw her speak twice... I got to hear her speak once when I was a freshman in college before I really knew much about who she was. Yet there were still several things she said that have stuck with me ever since. Years later I was talking with a retired Navy admiral that I worked with and if I remember correctly how he put it, Hopper was the only person Nimitz was ever scared of. > But she had only brought a couple of "nanoseconds" and so I > missed a chance to snag one. Alas, I never got one of her nanoseconds either. But I still love telling my students the story about them. > Very nice lady. >From everything I've heard she was indeed, in addition to being a force of nature. Always wished I had gotten a chance to meet her. BLS
Re: How I came to vintage computers
Indeed! It is fun to learn what got people interested in the history... and their replies are in some cases interesting history itself! Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 2/15/2017 10:03:05 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, n...@nf6x.net writes: Thanks for sharing. That was a delightful origin story. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
On 2/15/2017 10:14 AM, Mike Stein wrote: I also attended one of her lectures in my distant youth and was similarly impressed; an exceptional person indeed, especially considering the culture and politics of the day. m I saw her speak twice, and at UMR we had a small enough group and she had time and visited quite a while with the ACM there during her time on campus. But she had only brought a couple of "nanoseconds" and so I missed a chance to snag one. Very nice lady. thanks Jim
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
Hi, On 02/15/2017 03:16 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: there are one of the Siemens teletypes that print tape and has a dial on the front from Germany I have seen very compact nice unit used for telex I would love to have. It's the t68d. Exists in very different versions. With paper tape, without, with dial, black, brown, etc. I have a few of those. I even have one sitting in Morocco. I brought it there by car...
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
I also attended one of her lectures in my distant youth and was similarly impressed; an exceptional person indeed, especially considering the culture and politics of the day. m - Original Message - From: "Chuck Guzis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT! >I apologize to the list for having made the original post. I had the > privilege of once meeting Dr. Hopper and was quite impressed. > > Again, I did not mean to start a kerfuffle. > > --Chuck > >
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
I apologize to the list for having made the original post. I had the privilege of once meeting Dr. Hopper and was quite impressed. Again, I did not mean to start a kerfuffle. --Chuck
Re: How I came to vintage computers
Thanks for sharing. That was a delightful origin story. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
On 2017-02-15 11:30 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: now we've devolved into complete absurdity. mcl Missed the sarcasm? *I* didn't invent this imaginary anti-tech revolution... --T
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
> From: Toby Thain > Even if your argument weren't absurd and offensive Absurd and offensive is in the eye of the beholder. Can we please drop this topic? Thanks. Noel
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT! - was Re: Yale renames Calhoun College for Grace Hopper
Besides, Kaczynski was Harvard, not Yale.
Re: Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT!
now we've devolved into complete absurdity. mcl
Re: Fwd: ibm 29 (keypunch?)
Guess it's time I got off my butt and looked for those blank cards I promised you many months ago... See ya off-list. m - Original Message - From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 10:11 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: ibm 29 (keypunch?) > On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Toby Thain wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Phil emailed me out of the blue -- I'm not interested but anyone on the list >> want his 029 keypunch in Ohio? > > Nice. I'm close and I've kinda wanted a newer keypunch. > > -ethan
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
Hi, On 02/15/2017 04:24 PM, Alan Hightower wrote: Perhaps I was unclear. It is not a direct port. It was inspired by your board during a road-trip to VCF-E to make an easier-to-assemble design. Ah, ok. There is obviously no FT245 support. And just about any implementation of logic responding as a KL8E would look very similar. The code is available under MAIN.pld on the previous link. Oh, I did not see that. No, that file has nothing to do with my source. I have never seen that strange language. I only use VHDL (and verilog if I'm forced to) for logic descriptions... So this .pld looked like some binary for me. OK, I even didn't know that there are Atmel CPLDs. The design uses a UART and can be run up to 230 Kbps and tested up to 460 Kbps. It runs faster than the original hardware. The UART design certainly has limitations as you point out. The speed does not matter. There it exactly one fault: The design uses an UART. The qualities or speed of the UART are irrelevant. But it's too slow, of course. But it is still an improvement on the original DEC serial hardware which most people still use. The design goals of this board are not the same as yours. Probably :-) I have to admit that I don't understand the design goal: Why should one *not* want to use a KL8 serial board? I like it very much and use some of them from 110 baud to 19200 baud. I use them only as terminal connection. So I see no use case for a however improved serial card - except when you don't have a KL8E. But that's a very theoretical assumption. When I design something to be used with vintage hardware, I usually think of it as an addition instead of a replacement. I use OmniUSB IN ADDITION to KL8E. At the same time, of course. Console over KL8E, high speed data communication <-> PC over OmniUSB. I use it with Kermit, dumprest etc. It's of course also possible to have several OmniUSB boards in the system :-) > It was designed to be easy to assemble without SMT. While I personally agree with your SMT comments, most people do have problems soldering .5mm pitch leaded components - Yes, that's because they just did not try at all. They're stuck with the idea that they would have to solder the stuff pin by pin with a microscopic soldering tip. But I use a big reservoir tip. And then it's REALLY becoming easy! I also belonged to the fraction that thought it would be somehow impossible to solder TQFP and friends. Until I tried it. That was the day I started to forget about which THT components I could have laying around. With normal SMT and 0805 resistors I am completely happy. The ATF1508 was chosen after noticing it's data sheet revealed it could source the current requirements of the omnibus; a rare thing. Yes, really. After your reaction, clearly... Look, no one is trying to step on toes. I did not expect that. Don't worry! I just wanted point out how things in that area are handled properly. I'm working in the software business and that kind of thought is part of my day job. One should also be aware of the difference between public domain, open source, free software and the different license models and have an understanding of the applicable rights and obligations. Kind regards Philipp
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
Perhaps I was unclear. It is not a direct port. It was inspired by your
board during a road-trip to VCF-E to make an easier-to-assemble design.
There is obviously no FT245 support. And just about any implementation
of logic responding as a KL8E would look very similar. The code is
available under MAIN.pld on the previous link.
The design uses a UART and can be run up to 230 Kbps and tested up to
460 Kbps. It runs faster than the original hardware. The UART design
certainly has limitations as you point out. But it is still an
improvement on the original DEC serial hardware which most people still
use. The design goals of this board are not the same as yours.
It was designed to be easy to assemble without SMT. While I personally
agree with your SMT comments, most people do have problems soldering
.5mm pitch leaded components - as evidenced by the number of new-run
orders you have taken. The ATF1508 was chosen after noticing it's data
sheet revealed it could source the current requirements of the omnibus;
a rare thing.
> Using traditional RS232 somewhere in between is just stupid bullshit. It
> completely spoils the beauty of the idea. But why should one make another
> design? Through hole parts?!?
>
> They just should have asked me about cooperation :-)
After your reaction, clearly... Look, no one is trying to step on toes.
It's an alternative project and fully open source. I do not belive it's
existence is harming you or the community. After reviewing the code, if
you still believe there is an outstanding IP credit issue, we will
resolve it. It is clearly NOT a derived work and does not warrant a
derived license.
Thanks Phil,
-Alan
On 2017-02-15 08:55, Philipp Hachtmann wrote:
> On 02/15/2017 12:45 AM, Alan Hightower wrote:
>
>> Not sure if you are aware, but FYI - Malcolm MacLeod with some
>> involvement from Kyle Owen, Jack Rubin, and others ported your code to a
>> ATF1508 CPLD with a minimal test board.
> Oh, ah! I looked into their github and the README.md.
> There is a copy of the GPLv3 and as it looks no source code. And no hint that
> they used code from me.
>
> That would NOT be ok!!!
>
> Even if I have disclosed the source code, I have not licensed it under GPLv3
> or put it into the public domain. It's a copyrighted work and I am the
> author. And the code is currently not licensed to anyone. And nobody but me
> has the right to license that code or parts of it to anyone.
>
> That rant only to be clear... How something like that should happen:
>
> 1. Ask the author to license the stuff under a free license like GPL
> (I probably would do that!)
>
> 2. Start own project, copy and reuse as much or little as desired.
> The new project's license *must* be compatible to the license of the used
> other code.
> You have to mention the original author ("based on ... by...", "in parts
> based on ... by ...").
>
>> I believe the longer term plan
>> was to make a full featured community project from it, but it's stalled
>> a bit atm.
>
> Why?!? To have a single board KL8E replacement? Which it actually is.
>
> OmniUSB's strong points are the following:
>
> - HIGH speed
> - No baudrate setting
> - Direct USB connection
> - Special instructions to use really tight loops.
> - USB FIFO solution implicitely double buffered AND locked on both sides: As
> long as you obey the teleprinter flag on the 8, you cannot create a buffer
> overrun and lose data. On the PC's side you access the device with usual
> blocking I/O. You can't write more data when the PDP8 has not read from the
> FIFO. Therefore no single byte lost without thinking about it.
> Example: PDP8 does a disk dump. PC program is stopped. The pdp8 waits.
> Example: PC is sending a huge block of data to the pdp8. It just writes as
> fast as possible. The pdp8 is stopped for an our during the transmission. No
> byte is lost.
>
> Using traditional RS232 somewhere in between is just stupid bullshit. It
> completely spoils the beauty of the idea.
>
> Of course one could add an FTDI 240x FIFO (NOT!!! NOT!!! UART) to the
> design - then it would be equivalent to OmniUSB.
>
> But why should one make another design? Through hole parts?!? We're living in
> the 21st century! The company where I want to bring the stuff for soldering
> just told me that they usually don't stock that old and clumsy 0805
> components by default...
>
> Soldering a 200 pin TQFP is easier than doing some wire wrap connections and
> takes 4 minutes if you are UNexperienced. SMT soldering is easier than THT if
> you have done it for more than one half hour! (Of course with SMT you're on
> the way to really difficult stuff, but that's not part of the discussion)
>
> They just should have asked me about cooperation :-)
Ted Kaczynski was RIGHT! - was Re: Yale renames Calhoun College for Grace Hopper
On 2017-02-15 8:33 AM, william degnan wrote: On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2017, Ken Seefried wrote: I'd be fascinated at a justification for this opinion that squared with "John C. Calhoun’s legacy as a white supremacist and a national leader who passionately promoted slavery as a ‘positive good’". And, once he graduated from Yale in 1804, he turned his back on the college, with no further significant involvement, and didn't give them money! famous alum, before Yale had any other famous alums. I'd say that Grace Hopper had a better legacy. Grace Hopper checks all the boxes of an acceptable historical figure, today...100 years from now in the midst of an "anti technology" movement ... Even if your argument weren't absurd and offensive, Hopper isn't who any sensible imaginary "anti-tech revolutionary" would go for. They'd rightly go after the legacy of people like Zuckerberg, Thiel, Altman, etc who *are* weaponising tech. They won't even remember what Hopper did. --Toby http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=654 (Revolutionary Force Bombs IBM Office ... Computerword March 18, 1970) Bill
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On Wed, February 15, 2017 15:12, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > >>> I could swap something for a nice creed machine. >> >> I suspect they're more common in the UK than elsewhere. They were used >> by the Post Office >> for the Telex service, for example. > > I know. Here everything is full with Siemens and Lorenz. > Je aussi voudrais avoir une machine de Sagem...! > >> are wondering). Obviously these machines are normally 'collection >> only' the sellers will not ship > That's the main problem :-( > > But teletypes are easier to find here than in US :-P :-P :-P > Really?? I could use another ASR33 or an ASR32. Ed -- Ik email, dus ik besta. BTC : 1Lk6141nvDKPxtCa5erfFyovsoJN2LKqNJ
Re: Fwd: ibm 29 (keypunch?)
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Toby Thain wrote: > Hi, > > Phil emailed me out of the blue -- I'm not interested but anyone on the list > want his 029 keypunch in Ohio? Nice. I'm close and I've kinda wanted a newer keypunch. -ethan
Fwd: Fwd: ibm 29 (keypunch?)
Hi, Phil emailed me out of the blue -- I'm not interested but anyone on the list want his 029 keypunch in Ohio? --Toby Forwarded Message Subject:Fwd: ibm 29 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:25:44 -0500 From: Phil Masturzo To: t...@telegraphics.com.au My name is PHiL and I live in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio. I got your email from a computer museum who thought you may be interested in purchasing my IBM 29 computer. If so, email me back or call me on my cell phone at xxx-xxx-, if I can answer any questions you may have. Thanks, Phil
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On 02/15/2017 03:40 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: I have not heard of 40 mil loop here on ttys... generally 20 mil or 60 mil. - At least what I have encountered. Is the 40 mil. standard in Europe? I have not heard about 60mA - at least not in the Telex network. All mechanical 5 step teleprinters I have ever seen and owned run on 40mA. And my test equipment has a mark on the scale at 40mA. I thought that this is international. But I also know that with respect to teleprinters there are some CCITT norms that are internationally used - except for the US. It starts with ITA2 code which is the official international 5-bit telex code. But US uses "US-TTY" which slightly differs. Only the ASCII stuff (asr 33/35 etc) run on 20mA. But that's a totally different thing. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 2/14/2017 2:24:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, hac...@hachti.de writes: On 14.02.2017 22:18, geneb wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2017, ben wrote: On 2/14/2017 6:27 AM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: FWIW, Mini-B connectors are on their way out, nor USB OTG compliant. Though agreed that they are flimsy... Why not just a type A or something? Easy, big, and robust. Why not mini and regular? Ben. PS: Add a 45.5 baud serail port. Control everything with a 5 level TTY. :) Dirty casual. 20mA current loop or nothing. The 45 baud machines do NOT run on 20mA. They usually run on 40mA :-) 20mA is the domain of model 28, 32, 33 etc. -- Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Philipp Hachtmann Buchdruck, Bleisatz, Spezialitäten Alemannstr. 21, D-30165 Hannover Tel. 0511/352, Mobil 0171/2632239 Fax. 0511/3500439 phil...@hachtmann.com www.tiegeldruck.de UStdID DE 202668329
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
I have not heard of 40 mil loop here on ttys... generally 20 mil or 60 mil. - At least what I have encountered. Is the 40 mil. standard in Europe? Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 2/14/2017 2:24:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, hac...@hachti.de writes: On 14.02.2017 22:18, geneb wrote: > On Tue, 14 Feb 2017, ben wrote: > >> On 2/14/2017 6:27 AM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: >>> FWIW, Mini-B connectors are on their way out, nor USB OTG compliant. >>> Though agreed that they are flimsy... Why not just a type A or >>> something? Easy, big, and robust. >>> >> Why not mini and regular? >> Ben. >> PS: Add a 45.5 baud serail port. Control everything with a 5 level >> TTY. :) > > Dirty casual. 20mA current loop or nothing. The 45 baud machines do NOT run on 20mA. They usually run on 40mA :-) 20mA is the domain of model 28, 32, 33 etc.
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: >> I suspect they're more common in the UK than elsewhere. They were used >> by the Post Office >> for the Telex service, for example. > > > I know. Here everything is full with Siemens and Lorenz. > Je aussi voudrais avoir une machine de Sagem...! Over here, the only Teletypes we generally see are Model 33s. Even the Model 35 is very uncommon, and 5 bit stuff almost unheard-of. OK, we do see BRPE punches from time to time. There was a UK company, Data Dynamics, who used the Teletype Model 33 mechanics and put it in their own case with their own electronics. I think they re-cased the BRPE too, in a very odd case (light bulbs under the chad box, it looks very pretty). 5 bit stuff is generally Creed here. Teleprinters, paper tape readers, etc. And a few real oddities. Like a keyboard tape punch (no electronic communications, it just punches 5-level tape from the keyboard) made by a company called Booth-Willmott who I have never heard of in any other connection, Never seen a Siemens, Lorenz or Sagem machine. -tony
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
there are one of the Siemens teletypes that print tape and has a dial on the front from Germany I have seen very compact nice unit used for telex I would love to have. shipping on teletypes from overseas is expensive though. If one was local ad inn really nice shape we would be a candidate fro it for the telecom display at SMECC. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 2/15/2017 7:12:47 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, hac...@hachti.de writes: >> I could swap something for a nice creed machine. > > I suspect they're more common in the UK than elsewhere. They were used > by the Post Office > for the Telex service, for example. I know. Here everything is full with Siemens and Lorenz. Je aussi voudrais avoir une machine de Sagem...! > are wondering). Obviously these machines are normally 'collection > only' the sellers will not ship That's the main problem :-( But teletypes are easier to find here than in US :-P :-P :-P
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
I could swap something for a nice creed machine. I suspect they're more common in the UK than elsewhere. They were used by the Post Office for the Telex service, for example. I know. Here everything is full with Siemens and Lorenz. Je aussi voudrais avoir une machine de Sagem...! are wondering). Obviously these machines are normally 'collection only' the sellers will not ship That's the main problem :-( But teletypes are easier to find here than in US :-P :-P :-P
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On 02/15/2017 12:45 AM, Alan Hightower wrote:
Not sure if you are aware, but FYI - Malcolm MacLeod with some
involvement from Kyle Owen, Jack Rubin, and others ported your code to a
ATF1508 CPLD with a minimal test board.
Oh, ah! I looked into their github and the README.md.
There is a copy of the GPLv3 and as it looks no source code. And no hint
that they used code from me.
That would NOT be ok!!!
Even if I have disclosed the source code, I have not licensed it under
GPLv3 or put it into the public domain. It's a copyrighted work and I am
the author. And the code is currently not licensed to anyone. And nobody
but me has the right to license that code or parts of it to anyone.
That rant only to be clear... How something like that should happen:
1. Ask the author to license the stuff under a free license like GPL
(I probably would do that!)
2. Start own project, copy and reuse as much or little as desired.
The new project's license *must* be compatible to the license of the
used other code.
You have to mention the original author ("based on ... by...", "in parts
based on ... by ...").
I believe the longer term plan
was to make a full featured community project from it, but it's stalled
a bit atm.
Why?!? To have a single board KL8E replacement? Which it actually is.
OmniUSB's strong points are the following:
- HIGH speed
- No baudrate setting
- Direct USB connection
- Special instructions to use really tight loops.
- USB FIFO solution implicitely double buffered AND locked on both
sides: As long as you obey the teleprinter flag on the 8, you cannot
create a buffer overrun and lose data. On the PC's side you access the
device with usual blocking I/O. You can't write more data when the PDP8
has not read from the FIFO. Therefore no single byte lost without
thinking about it.
Example: PDP8 does a disk dump. PC program is stopped. The pdp8 waits.
Example: PC is sending a huge block of data to the pdp8. It just writes
as fast as possible. The pdp8 is stopped for an our during the
transmission. No byte is lost.
Using traditional RS232 somewhere in between is just stupid bullshit. It
completely spoils the beauty of the idea.
Of course one could add an FTDI 240x FIFO (NOT!!! NOT!!! UART) to
the design - then it would be equivalent to OmniUSB.
But why should one make another design? Through hole parts?!? We're
living in the 21st century! The company where I want to bring the stuff
for soldering just told me that they usually don't stock that old and
clumsy 0805 components by default...
Soldering a 200 pin TQFP is easier than doing some wire wrap connections
and takes 4 minutes if you are UNexperienced. SMT soldering is easier
than THT if you have done it for more than one half hour! (Of course
with SMT you're on the way to really difficult stuff, but that's not
part of the discussion)
They just should have asked me about cooperation :-)
Re: Yale renames Calhoun College for Grace Hopper
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Tue, 14 Feb 2017, Ken Seefried wrote: > >> I'd be fascinated at a justification for this opinion that squared >> with "John C. Calhoun’s legacy as a white supremacist and a national >> leader who passionately promoted slavery as a ‘positive good’". >> > > And, once he graduated from Yale in 1804, he turned his back on the > college, with no further significant involvement, and didn't give them > money! > > famous alum, before Yale had any other famous alums. > > > I'd say that Grace Hopper had a better legacy. > > Grace Hopper checks all the boxes of an acceptable historical figure, today...100 years from now in the midst of an "anti technology" movement students will vote to replace Hopper with someone more acceptable for that time. She'd be the poster child villain of say an anti tech movement (like the late 60's anti-tech movement). Live by the sword die by the sword. http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=654 (Revolutionary Force Bombs IBM Office ... Computerword March 18, 1970) Bill
Re: Mystery QED board
> From: Josh Dersch > Sorry, typo. Ah, no wonder I couldn't find it... :-) The memory card (?) - the hex board leaning up against the wall in the middle - does look a lot like the MS95 memory card from the manual (three horizontal DuPont headers at the top, two vertical ones at the bottom, etc) but it also has differences - it doesn't have the two large square chips, etc. (And there's an MS95 in the board list, IIRC.) None of the other boards seem to correspond to anything in the QED 95 manual, though. So, rather a mystery. Quickware Engineering does still have a Web page (http://quickware.com/) which says that "Our core business is providing custom PDP-11 processor emulator upgrades", but it contains little content. Noel
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:02:55AM -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote: [...] > This is a peripheral. USB OTG doesn't apply, and USB-A would be > "inappropriate". Pretend this is an inkjet printer. What plug would you > expect to find on that? Choose your own facile answer: a) None, printers have *sockets*; b) RJ-45; or c) The only thing I'd connect to an inkjet printer is a steel-toecapped boot. I much prefer regular USB A/B connectors, as the "micro" form is rather mechanically weak and seems to break easily. The USB 3 variant is particularly awful. I have yet to handle any USB C kit, which seems OK on paper, but only time will tell how good it is in practice.
Re: How I came to vintage computers
That's fine, Philipp (at least for me). Thanks for share this with us. Kind Regards Sergio Pedraja 2017-02-14 23:28 GMT+01:00 Philipp Hachtmann : > Hey folks, > > after my OmniUSB-thread has gone down the teleprinter way... I'll start a > new thread. > > Did you now how I came to vintage computers? How I became some kind of > computer engineer? Probably not. It's so easy. Listen. Long story ahead. > > In 1999 I started to study computer science. Java and algorithms and all > that clean stuff. > One day in autumn 2000 I had that idea: I need a Fernschreiber > (=teleprinter)! I had nothing to do with that stuff. And I did no know how > it worked. I even did not remember having seen one. It was just that word in > my head. > So I bought my first Siemens T100 (still here in the house, two floors below > me). It was a machine with strange connectors which made awful noise when > connected to power. > So I went to the library and found a good book from 1934. That told me how > the teleprinter works. > I then somehow soldered a simple interface to connect that beast to the > parallel (!!!) port of my Linux server (the first hachti.de server was a > mainboard and a harddisk in the corner of my student home where we had > 10mbit LAN acess and fixed IP. I even did a DNS reverse mapping > philipp.vorstrasse.uni-bremen.de for my IP). > At that time all about programming I knew was Turbo Pascal, some Z80 machine > language (not assembly language, I programmed that beast in hex) and a bit > Java. I didn't even know much about Linux. The server back then had been > setup by someone else who was in need of a server. So he used it as well. > I used the parallel port because I had an idea how to control the pins. I > knew that there was something ugly called serial port but I had not yet made > the connection that this was EXACTLY what I would have needed. > > To program that thing I needed some software. So I went to the bookstore at > noon. Will never forget that. Bought the O'Reilly Linux Kernel drivers book > (the one with the horse) and started to write my first C program ever. It > was a kernel module. The Kernel must have been Linux 2.2. It was > frustrating. But after a decent 30 hour nonstop session and hundreds of > reboots (haha, of my web and mail server which was also running X from time > to time) I really had some bitbang code which made the teleprinter say what > I wanted it to say. > I soon realised that with a multitasking OS like Linux I had the choice of > outputting correct data using busy wait in Kernel or outputting a mess when > the system gets under load. So I learned THAT lesson. > I decided that I needed something else. Because I had heard of other people > working with something called PIC Microcontroller, I bought one and a > programmer. And a breadboard. That evil 16f84 was sitting there on my desk, > naked, and did - nothing. > Getting the PIC up and running was pure horror. The hardest architecture > I've ever mastered. Since then I know: PIC is a load of complete shit! In > the end I failed to create a RS232 (had learned that in the meantime) to > teleprinter converter but had the idea to hook up two teleprinters using > modems. TelexPhone was born. The project (telexphone.net) was eventually > kind of stolen a few years later and continued to something still in > existence called i-telex over internet. That was never what I wanted because > the V21 modems (hard to find!!) are bit transparent. That means that the > teleprinters on both sides of the wire run as synchronous as with a real > wire between them. Very cool. The TelexPhone used a 16f876 with a approx 2k > cooperative multitasking system written entirely in assembly. It was somehow > modular. I managed to hook in modules with private main loop and init parts > by writing an impressive linker script which automated that. > Hey, I was 21 and did all that on my own! Please do NOT laugh! > > In the meantime someone somewhere invented something called eBay. And > because It's always good to have several different devices of the same type > and even better to have several examples of each those different devices, I > had an eBay search for "Lochstreifen" which means punched paper tape. Paper > tape for teleprinter, of course. > > One day I found an offer "Honeywell H316 minicomputer" which sounded > interesting. With paper tape. And no pictures. In Switzerland. A quick > search (probably already google? I used altavista.digital.com before) told > me that this could be an interesting toy. So I bought it for the incredible > amount of SFr 450. > Borrowed a car and went there. What I found was some messy stuff somewhere > on an uninsulated attic in Switzerland. Very dirty. I nearly turned down the > deal because it all looked so crappy. The seller admitted that he had kept > the stuff in that open attic since beginning of the 1980s. > I took it home. Had to drive TWICE from Bremen to Switzerland to get it all. > And it was a lucky buy. >
Re: Mystery QED board
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 06:29:54PM -0800, Josh Dersch wrote: > On 2/14/17 5:55 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > >Does anyone know what the QED board (4th image) in this eBay lot: > > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/322414100718 > > > >is? The large chip looks like a J11 chip. However, the only QED PDP-11 board > >I found mention of online is a high-performance hex board UNIBUS processor, > >the QED 95. > > > > Noel > > > I was looking at that as well, and I think it is a QED 90 -- there are docs > on Bitsavers and it seems to match up (there are a few other QED boards in > that auction that go with it). Not sure exactly what PDP-11 system that > particular set of boards goes in, the exact configuration varies based on > what system it's going in... > Did you notice the sticker on the ROM that says: © QED 9038 QED 90/95 Boot Rom Vsn 2.01 0981 So, I dare venture and say it's a QED 90 or 95 :) (Also the descriotion lists a "90-CPU") /P
Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:50:40AM -0800, W2HX wrote: > Don't laugh I'm not laughing, if anything I'm jealous :) > http://w2hx.com/x/New%20Shack/0224151752b.jpg > > > > From: ben > Sent: Feb 14, 2017 1:54 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and > react! > > On 2/14/2017 6:27 AM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: > > FWIW, Mini-B connectors are on their way out, nor USB OTG compliant. > > Though agreed that they are flimsy... Why not just a type A or > > something? Easy, big, and robust. > > > Why not mini and regular? > Ben. > PS: Add a 45.5 baud serail port. Control everything with a 5 level TTY. :)
