Re: WTB: RX02 Floppy Disks

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Hi All,
All my 8" SSDD /SSSDdisks are non formatted, which was the reason for my 
initial troubles.
Nevertheless, my IBM System /23 (Type 5324) can format disks in three 
different formats:


_1. IBM System /23 Format_
512 Bytes per Sector
Possible Disk: SSSD, SSDD, DSDD

_2. Standard Format_
128 Bytes per Sector
Possible Disk: SSSD, SSDD

_3. H- Format_
258 Bytes per Sector
Possible Disk: DSDD

_So option 2_ was the right one, also when nothing in the docs point to 
the IBM 3740 format.
After booting the System/23 with the inserted maintenance Disk VOL002 
the formatter program can be started with the following command: link 
prepare



By now I have 20 RX02 Disks formatted, and was also able to create a 
bootable RT11 Disk via my running RT11 installation on my RC25.

It is RT-11SJ (S) V04.00I ...
>>>
.FORMAT DY1:
DY1:/FORMAT-Are you sure?Y
?FORMAT-I-Formatting complete
<<<
>>>
.INIT/BAD DY1:
DY1:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y
?DUP-I-No bad blocks detected DY1:
<<<

Next step would be to install RT11 on my SCSI Disk, which is presented 
through a Dilog SU726A as MSCP Device 0 (Address 160340 (will be 1760340 
on my PDP-11/84)) to the system.
Disk is an DEC RZ22 and was also formatted and mapped, through the Dilog 
"BIOS" (Jumper J14 in to boot Maintenance Address ... and @175000g 
followed by FT)
Now it looks like I need the SU726A manual, as I have no clue as which 
device RT11 should recognize the Dilog, I assume DU0: but RT11 doesn't 
load the Device.



*SHOW DEV*

Device  Status   Vector
---
  US  Not installed  410
  DL  Not installed  160
  DU  Not installed  154
  RK  Not installed  220
  DY  Resident   264
  DX  Not installed  264
  LP  146676 200 204
  SC  143332 000
  HC  Not installed  330 334
  BS  Not installed  300 304
  VW  Not installed  270 274
  NL  Installed  000
  LS  Installed  200 204
  MS  Not installed  224
  MM  Not installed  224
*
**.DIR*

SWAP  .SYS25  26-Nov-91  RT11SJ.SYS65  26-Nov-91
US.SYS 7  26-Nov-91  TT.SYS 2  26-Nov-91
DL.SYS 4  26-Nov-91  DU.SYS 4  26-Nov-91
RK.SYS 3  26-Nov-91  DY.SYS 4  26-Nov-91
DX.SYS 3  26-Nov-91  LP.SYS 2  26-Nov-91
SC.SYS 5  26-Nov-91  HC.SYS 5  26-Nov-91
BS.SYS 3  26-Nov-91  VW.SYS 2  26-Nov-91
NL.SYS 2  26-Nov-91  LS.SYS 2  26-Nov-91
SCMEV .SYS 5  26-Nov-91  SCVS11.SYS 4  26-Nov-91
SCEVA .SYS 4  26-Nov-91  LPMEV .SYS 2  26-Nov-91
LPLXY .SYS 2  26-Nov-91  LPSID .SYS 2  26-Nov-91
LPEVA .SYS 2  26-Nov-91  MS.SYS10  26-Nov-91
MM.SYS 9  26-Nov-91  HC7221.SYS 4  26-Nov-91
HC7220.SYS 5  26-Nov-91  HC722T.SYS 5  26-Nov-91
US460 .SYS 7  26-Nov-91  US410 .SYS 7  26-Nov-91
HC7580.SYS 5  26-Nov-91  HC7550.SYS 5  26-Nov-91
HC7475.SYS 5  26-Nov-91  HC722C.SYS 5  26-Nov-91
SCMPR .SYS 5  26-Nov-91  CHKPNT.SYS   412  09-Aug-94
STARTS.COM 1  26-Nov-91  PIP   .SAV23  26-Nov-91
DIR   .SAV17  26-Nov-91  DUP   .SAV41  26-Nov-91
RESORC.SAV15  26-Nov-91  FORMAT.SAV19  26-Nov-91
 42 Files, 759 Blocks
 215 Free blocks


Any Hint how I get RT11 load the correct device so that I can format and 
init the SCSI Disk?
Is maybe Someone here with an Manual of the Dilog? A SU723 could be also 
helpful, ... .


Many Greetings
Ulrich

Re: Convex documentation online (C220 arrived)

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Wow, that's mighty impressive. I knew about your FPGA 360/65 project but had 
never seen your website before. I must visit next time I'm close to the 
Netherlands!
Marc

On Jul 29, 2017, at 11:17 PM, Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctech 
 wrote:

My Convex C220 arrived about a week ago, so I now have a C1, C1 XL, and a
C220. A C240 will follow in a few weeks. Along with the C220 came some
installation tapes, and a large volume of documentation (some 300
documents). As long as I don¹t receive any objections to the being online
from HP (current owner of Convex), I¹ve put most of the loose-leaf hardware
documentation online at
http://www.vaxbarn.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/609-convex-documentation.
This includes the theory of operation manual, which gives a nice description
of how the big vector processor works.

For those interesting in pictures of the machine and the boards installed,
http://www.vaxbarn.com/index.php/41-acquisitions/608-arrival-of-the-c220

Kind regards,

Camiel Vanderhoeven

Re: Vintage HP 1000 Floating point processor ( EBAY )

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

BTW I know the seller well, he is local to me and I have had no issues dealing 
with him. These come from a large stash that came from a former HP 1000 
maintenance shop (Advent I think was their name, or something like that). 
That's one of the few units I didn't take ;-)
Marc

On Aug 3, 2017, at 7:17 AM, GerardCJAT via cctech  wrote:

On sale in Ebay ( $ 99 )

Disclaimer : Not affiliated etc 

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/263118833370?ul_noapp=true

BTW, anyone "playing" with some HP 1000 L series ??

HP B132L drive caddy

[Adam Stouffer via cctalk]

Hello all, does anyone have a spare hard drive caddy for the HP B series
workstations? Thanks.

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> >> On Aug 2, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Aaron Jackson via cctech <
>> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I will soon be getting a PDP-11/73 with 1MB of RAM, an RLV12 and DEQNA
>> >> controllers. I already have two RL02 and packs (which need a clean),
>> >> with thanks to Dave Wade on this list.
>> >>
>> >> Ideally I would like to run 2.11BSD, on two RL02 drives, I'm not sure
>> >> this is going to be possible. Does anyone know/think otherwise? Maybe by
>> >> removing *many* unnecessary and running strip on any binaries left from
>> >> my destruction? Ignoring spare for the user, for the time being...
>> >>
>> >> If not, what other UNIX options are there which I will be able to use,
>> >> supporting the DEQNA and running on two RL02 drives?
>> >>
>> >> Input much appreciated.
>> >
>> > Here’s what I did (but I wasn’t space constrained as I have the
>> equivalant
>> > of 4 RP06 drives).
>>
>> That is huge compared to my total of 20MB! :D
>>
>> > You’ll likely have to configure the kernel.  This is easiest done within
>> an emulator,
>> > as it took 24hours on my 11/70.  I decided that the emulator approach
>> was best
>> > after the 2nd time I screwed it up.  :-/
>> >
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion. I have been playing with this already. I
>> recompiled the kernel and set a bunch of stuff to NO which I knew I
>> wouldn't need. It compiled fine, but then said:
>>
>> base segment is 47232, min is 49152, too small by 1920 bytes.
>> System will occupy 175264 bytes of memory (including buffers and clists).
>>
>>end {0054200}  nbuf {0012134}   buf
>> {0035352}
>>  nproc {0012122}  proc {0044344} ntext
>> {0012124}
>>   text {0053240} nfile {0012130}  file
>> {0051260}
>> ninode {0012126} inode {0012220}  ncallout
>> {0012132}
>>callout {0025764} ucb_clist {0012140}nclist
>> {0012136}
>>   ram_size {000}   xitdesc {0012216}  quotdesc
>> {000}
>>  namecache {0035070}   _iosize {000}  nlog
>> {0011206}
>>  SYSTEM IS NOT BOOTABLE. 
>>
>> If anyone can explain what this mean and possibly how to fix it, I'd be
>> very pleased.
>>
>
> The base segment is too small.  The 2.11BSD kernel is built as a base image
> plus a bunch of 8K segments that are overlaid as needed.  Usually what I
> end up seeing is that one of the overlay segments is too large rather than
> the base being too small.
>
> To fix it, edit the Makefile in your kernel's configuration directory.
> There is a line that starts with "BASE=" -- move an .o file from one of the
> overlay "OVX=" lines (something larger than 1920 bytes but not TOO big) and
> run make again.  You'll probably also end up needing to tweak some of the
> overlay definitions... it's a balancing act.
>
> - Josh

Ah I see - good to know. Thank you for the information!



>
>
>
>
>>
>> > Running on an emulator allows you to “play around” with the configuration
>> > and what will and won’t fit.  You’ll likely have to start with a
>> configuration larger
>> > than your target just to get started (but I haven’t done it in a long
>> time so YMMV).
>> >
>> > That will also tell you what you can reasonably fit on two RL02 drives.
>> Also it’s
>> > easier to “back up” and start over if you make mistakes (save a version
>> of the
>> > emulated disk files before making substantive changes and copy them back
>> if
>> > you screw up).
>> >
>> > Once you have something working reasonably well, you can transfer the
>> “bits”
>> > over to your 11’s RL drives though your preferred method.
>> >
>> > TTFN - Guy
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Aaron.
>>


-- 
Aaron Jackson
PhD Student, Computer Vision Laboratory, Uni of Nottingham
http://aaronsplace.co.uk

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Aaron Jackson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> >> On Aug 2, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Aaron Jackson via cctech <
> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I will soon be getting a PDP-11/73 with 1MB of RAM, an RLV12 and DEQNA
> >> controllers. I already have two RL02 and packs (which need a clean),
> >> with thanks to Dave Wade on this list.
> >>
> >> Ideally I would like to run 2.11BSD, on two RL02 drives, I'm not sure
> >> this is going to be possible. Does anyone know/think otherwise? Maybe by
> >> removing *many* unnecessary and running strip on any binaries left from
> >> my destruction? Ignoring spare for the user, for the time being...
> >>
> >> If not, what other UNIX options are there which I will be able to use,
> >> supporting the DEQNA and running on two RL02 drives?
> >>
> >> Input much appreciated.
> >
> > Here’s what I did (but I wasn’t space constrained as I have the
> equivalant
> > of 4 RP06 drives).
>
> That is huge compared to my total of 20MB! :D
>
> > You’ll likely have to configure the kernel.  This is easiest done within
> an emulator,
> > as it took 24hours on my 11/70.  I decided that the emulator approach
> was best
> > after the 2nd time I screwed it up.  :-/
> >
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. I have been playing with this already. I
> recompiled the kernel and set a bunch of stuff to NO which I knew I
> wouldn't need. It compiled fine, but then said:
>
> base segment is 47232, min is 49152, too small by 1920 bytes.
> System will occupy 175264 bytes of memory (including buffers and clists).
>
>end {0054200}  nbuf {0012134}   buf
> {0035352}
>  nproc {0012122}  proc {0044344} ntext
> {0012124}
>   text {0053240} nfile {0012130}  file
> {0051260}
> ninode {0012126} inode {0012220}  ncallout
> {0012132}
>callout {0025764} ucb_clist {0012140}nclist
> {0012136}
>   ram_size {000}   xitdesc {0012216}  quotdesc
> {000}
>  namecache {0035070}   _iosize {000}  nlog
> {0011206}
>  SYSTEM IS NOT BOOTABLE. 
>
> If anyone can explain what this mean and possibly how to fix it, I'd be
> very pleased.
>

The base segment is too small.  The 2.11BSD kernel is built as a base image
plus a bunch of 8K segments that are overlaid as needed.  Usually what I
end up seeing is that one of the overlay segments is too large rather than
the base being too small.

To fix it, edit the Makefile in your kernel's configuration directory.
There is a line that starts with "BASE=" -- move an .o file from one of the
overlay "OVX=" lines (something larger than 1920 bytes but not TOO big) and
run make again.  You'll probably also end up needing to tweak some of the
overlay definitions... it's a balancing act.

- Josh




>
> > Running on an emulator allows you to “play around” with the configuration
> > and what will and won’t fit.  You’ll likely have to start with a
> configuration larger
> > than your target just to get started (but I haven’t done it in a long
> time so YMMV).
> >
> > That will also tell you what you can reasonably fit on two RL02 drives.
> Also it’s
> > easier to “back up” and start over if you make mistakes (save a version
> of the
> > emulated disk files before making substantive changes and copy them back
> if
> > you screw up).
> >
> > Once you have something working reasonably well, you can transfer the
> “bits”
> > over to your 11’s RL drives though your preferred method.
> >
> > TTFN - Guy
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Aaron.
>

Free for shipping: Cabletron MR-9000C Ethernet (thin-net) repeater

[Tapley, Mark via cctalk]

All,
I will not get around to using this, so it’s free for shipping (or for 
pickup).

Cabletron MR-9000C ethernet repeater. One AUI port designed to connect 
to a thick-net bacbone via an adaptor which I don’t have. 8 thin-net coax 
ports, LED indicators for each. 
Also includes several sections of thin coax cable and connectors, and 
power cord as well as user’s manual. In original (plain cardboard) box and 
includes anti-static foam and bag for shipping. The user’s manual appears to be 
on-line at:

http://office.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/cabletron_systems/mr9000c.html

(no affiliation with this site, it was just the top hit when I searched). 
However the device is not a “card” but a large box, coax connectors on one side 
and LED’s on the other.

Working condition is not known; I have not plugged it in, but if you 
wish I’m willing to do that and report results before shipping.  I have a 
thin-net port on my NeXT computer, so I could maybe even get the LED’s to 
flash, FWIW, although I’m not sure there is a terminator in the box so that 
might not work.

I’m in San Antonio, TX zip 78254. I’ll use the box it is already in, 
and ship via your favorite carrier; check or MO are preferred payment, or we 
can likely work out paypal, etc.

- Mark
210-522-6025 office 
210-379-4635cell

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> From: Guy Sotomayor Jr
> 
>> Having several different Unibus board designs in various stages .. I can
>> tell you that producing a *reliable* Unibus board is *not* going to be
>> cheap.
> 
> Why not? Just the size, gold-plated fingers, and transceiver chips, or is
> there more?
> 

All of the above + getting the parts sourced and assembled (using a lot of SMD).

TTFN - Guy

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Guy Sotomayor Jr

> Having several different Unibus board designs in various stages .. I can
> tell you that producing a *reliable* Unibus board is *not* going to be
> cheap.

Why not? Just the size, gold-plated fingers, and transceiver chips, or is
there more?

Noel

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

  I've heard that the Emulex UD33 and SC21 are the SMD controllers of
> choice, but do they do MSCP?   I'd love to head any comments from those "in
> the know" out there.  Are there other alternatives other than Emulex that
> may work well also?


Emulex UD33 is MSCP and is similar to QD32 and QD33. I have one. Sorry I
won't let it go. I have a long term project to do a SMD disk emulator and
need various controllers to test with. I have a few including a SC750
(which is Emulating RH750 with RM disks).


/Mattis


> Thanks for reading!
>
> -Rick
> --
> Rick Bensene
> The Old Calculator Museum
> http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
> Beavercreek, Oregon
>

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2017-08-03 11:12, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:



It would be nice, though if someone just finished a MSCP controller with a CF 
or SD on it.


I don't think there is enough demand for it. So to finish it would take 
some effort, and the boards wouldn't be cheaper than the SCSI 
controllers out there (CMD, Emulex, etc).


However, it would be nice to get rid of the noise of rotating rust ;-)

Vintage HP 1000 Floating point processor ( EBAY )

[GerardCJAT via cctalk]

On sale in Ebay ( $ 99 )

Disclaimer : Not affiliated etc 

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/263118833370?ul_noapp=true

BTW, anyone "playing" with some HP 1000 L series ??

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> That said, my PDP 11 is Unibus, and Unibus SCSI controllers are darned 
> expen$ive.

They’re desirable and not a lot around.  So it’s not terribly surprising.

Having several different Unibus board designs in various stages (not making a 
lot of progress because of this damned thing called “work”) I can tell you that 
producing a *reliable* Unibus board is *not* going to be cheap.

> 
> I do have some working Fujitsu SMD drives (now, these drives just keep on 
> running!), and I'd love to find a Unibus SMD controller (preferably Emulex), 
> so that I could run a couple of these drives on the 11.   Anyone out there 
> got one that emulates popular PDP-11 disk drives supported by most of the 
> OS's (RT-11, RSTS, and BSD Unix) that can make a given SMD drive "appear" 
> compatible that the would be willing to part with for a reasonable price?  
> I've heard that the Emulex UD33 and SC21 are the SMD controllers of choice, 
> but do they do MSCP?   I'd love to head any comments from those "in the know" 
> out there.  Are there other alternatives other than Emulex that may work well 
> also?
> 

If memory serves me correctly, the Emulex UD33 and SC21 emulate RP11 style 
controllers.  Which is a *good* thing.  For older Unibus systems RP11 (and 
OS’s) it’s better supported than MSCP.

TTFN - Guy

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 8/3/17 7:10 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote:

> I've found much the same with ESDI drives...they tend to die just sitting, 
> and it's not stiction that seems to be the culprit...they simply quit working.

That isn't good news. I still have about 100 drives that came out of Apollo's 
development cluster to image. Mostly
Micropolis and Maxtor >300mb.

If I actually get this done, I should have a pile of tested drives when it's 
over.

--

It would be nice, though if someone just finished a MSCP controller with a CF 
or SD on it.

RE: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Rick Bensene via cctalk]

Glen S. wrote:

>QBus ESDI controllers are relatively cheap. I have several Emulex QD21, Dilog 
>DQ696, and Sigma SDC-RQD11 QBus ESDI controllers. The >problem I have with 
>them is that I now have more controllers than working ESDI drives. Some of the 
>drives that I had which were >working have died while sitting idle. Guaranteed 
>working ESDI drives don't seem to be cheap anywhere and shipping them isn't 
>cheap >either.

I've found much the same with ESDI drives...they tend to die just sitting, and 
it's not stiction that seems to be the culprit...they simply quit working.   
Not sure why, but at one time I had a stash of 18 ESDI drives of various makes 
and sizes, and I'm now down to 2 that still work.  The rest all just quit.  
When not in use, the drives are stored in anti-static bags with a dessicant bag 
inside, and then stored in a storage tote lined with anti-static pink poly 
sheeting.  The totes are stored in an environmentally controlled room.   I 
don't see any reason why they'd die due to environmental conditions.  Something 
else has to be going on with them.

>To me it seems a lot more cost effective and less trouble in the long run to 
>pay a little more for something like a CMD CQD-200/220 or >Emulex UC07 SCSI 
>controller. I've somehow managed to acquire a couple dozen or so QBus SCSI 
>controllers of various flavors over the >years.

That said, my PDP 11 is Unibus, and Unibus SCSI controllers are darned 
expen$ive.

I do have some working Fujitsu SMD drives (now, these drives just keep on 
running!), and I'd love to find a Unibus SMD controller (preferably Emulex), so 
that I could run a couple of these drives on the 11.   Anyone out there got one 
that emulates popular PDP-11 disk drives supported by most of the OS's (RT-11, 
RSTS, and BSD Unix) that can make a given SMD drive "appear" compatible that 
the would be willing to part with for a reasonable price?  I've heard that the 
Emulex UD33 and SC21 are the SMD controllers of choice, but do they do MSCP?   
I'd love to head any comments from those "in the know" out there.  Are there 
other alternatives other than Emulex that may work well also?

Thanks for reading!

-Rick
--
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
Beavercreek, Oregon

Re: 2.11BSD on two RL02 drives? Probably not, but...

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:24 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk
 wrote:
> You might consider just adding another storage controller. I'd recommend
> something that talks MSCP. SCSI seems to be what most people are after
> nowadays, but ESDI controllers are much cheaper, and the drives aren't that
> hard to find. If you have SMD drives kicking around already, there are SMD
> MSCP interfaces that also work well. I've had excellent luck with Emulex
> MSCP controllers.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>

QBus ESDI controllers are relatively cheap. I have several Emulex
QD21, Dilog DQ696, and Sigma SDC-RQD11 QBus ESDI controllers. The
problem I have with them is that I now have more controllers than
working ESDI drives. Some of the drives that I had which were working
have died while sitting idle. Guaranteed working ESDI drives don't
seem to be cheap anywhere and shipping them isn't cheap either.

To me it seems a lot more cost effective and less trouble in the long
run to pay a little more for something like a CMD CQD-200/220 or
Emulex UC07 SCSI controller. I've somehow managed to acquire a couple
dozen or so QBus SCSI controllers of various flavors over the years.

-Glen