FS: New-Old Stock S-100 Kits: Cromemco Dazzler & ZPU, IMSAI FIF-XA, PT VDM-1 & more!

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

Hello again, Folks!

I came across a pretty amazing find in my stuff that I didn't even know I
had and have no recollection from where I got them. It's a box of unbuilt
S-100 board kits. Some of the kits are complete (board, parts,
documentation), others might be missing the documentation or components.
And then I have a bunch of bare boards, including a fair number of
prototyping boards.

I created an unboxing video, which can be watched here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gGgX3WPK34

Complete information including links to photos and pricing can be found
here on my new dedicated S-100 sales thread on the VCFed forums:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?61192-Sellam-s-S-100-Hardware-Software-and-Peripherals-Sales-Thread

Scroll down to the third post for the newly posted S-100 kits.

Please inquire directly to me via e-mail for fastest results.

Thanks!

Sellam

Searching for manual for ADAC 1664ATTL output pulse board

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

Does anyone have a copy of the manual for the ADAC 1664ATTL 64bit
parallel I/O Q-bus card?

Thanks,
Aaron.

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

2017-12-21 21:26 GMT+01:00 Josh Dersch via cctalk :

> The DIGITAL logo is visible on the inset portion of the panel next to the
> switches (it is a bit blurry).  Further, this matches up with Mattis's
> picture quite nicely.
>
> It's an interesting shade of blue, but people have been known to repaint
> things...
>
> This looks like a DEC system to me.
>

It sure is. I have not only the front panel but also the rest of the BA11-M
box . It is identical (except for the paint then...). No question about it.

Nice little box by the way. Very useful when testing Qbus boards. H7270
backplane. 18 bit though, but if I cared I could just was well convert it
to 22 bits I guess.

I have two more photos here if that could possibly convince those who still
are skeptical.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NL0wF8JEdm74A9AxZb6J06IE_RaiiaWp
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UeDQK8klLueV9dJdedQtzFt4xfDwDG_j

/Mattis


> - Josh
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > Further comment.  Notice the difference in height compared to a standard
> > DEC box of that style.  Also notice he is holding up the #150 box with
> his
> > fingers.  Remind me never to arm wrestle that guy.
> > Personally, I don't think it is a DEC system at all.
> >
> > bill
> >
> > 
> > From: cctalk  on behalf of jim stephens
> > via cctalk 
> > Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:00 PM
> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/20/2017 10:27 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:
> > > PDP 11/03? LSI-11?
> > >
> > > Maybe someone can use it. Nice blue color.
> >
> > > VINTAGE-DIGITAL-INSTRUMENTS-COUNTER-HG-ELEMENTS/
> > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/302392510749
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > The ad says it weighs 150#  That box is heavy, but is not a 150# item.
> > I suspect there is more to it.  There seems to be cables
> > going out of the back, perhaps to something else for the instrument.
> >
> > thanks
> > Jim
> >
>

Anyone want a PMC 4.3G MO cartridge?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

More digging through junk that I'll never use, I've discovered that I've
still got a 4.3GB (1024 byte sectors) Pinnacle MO cartridge.  The drive
itself went toes-up many years ago.

Anyone want the cart?

--Chuck

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Wayne Sudol via cctalk]

The ad actually says "IF WEIGHT IS OVER 150 POUNDS THERE WILL BE A CHARGE
FOR LIFTGATE OR RESIDENTIAL DELIVERY "
not that it does weigh that much.
​

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

The DIGITAL logo is visible on the inset portion of the panel next to the
switches (it is a bit blurry).  Further, this matches up with Mattis's
picture quite nicely.

It's an interesting shade of blue, but people have been known to repaint
things...

This looks like a DEC system to me.

- Josh


On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Further comment.  Notice the difference in height compared to a standard
> DEC box of that style.  Also notice he is holding up the #150 box with his
> fingers.  Remind me never to arm wrestle that guy.
> Personally, I don't think it is a DEC system at all.
>
> bill
>
> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of jim stephens
> via cctalk 
> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:00 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay
>
>
>
> On 12/20/2017 10:27 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:
> > PDP 11/03? LSI-11?
> >
> > Maybe someone can use it. Nice blue color.
>
> > VINTAGE-DIGITAL-INSTRUMENTS-COUNTER-HG-ELEMENTS/
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/302392510749
> >
> > Bob
> >
> The ad says it weighs 150#  That box is heavy, but is not a 150# item.
> I suspect there is more to it.  There seems to be cables
> going out of the back, perhaps to something else for the instrument.
>
> thanks
> Jim
>

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Dec 21, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Further comment.  Notice the difference in height compared to a standard
> DEC box of that style.  Also notice he is holding up the #150 box with his
> fingers.  Remind me never to arm wrestle that guy.
> Personally, I don't think it is a DEC system at all.

Quite possible.  After all, he advertised it as "Digital Instruments" which is 
a valid company name different from Digital Equipment.

paul

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Further comment.  Notice the difference in height compared to a standard
DEC box of that style.  Also notice he is holding up the #150 box with his
fingers.  Remind me never to arm wrestle that guy.
Personally, I don't think it is a DEC system at all.

bill


From: cctalk  on behalf of jim stephens via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:00 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay



On 12/20/2017 10:27 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:
> PDP 11/03? LSI-11?
>
> Maybe someone can use it. Nice blue color.

> VINTAGE-DIGITAL-INSTRUMENTS-COUNTER-HG-ELEMENTS/
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/302392510749
>
> Bob
>
The ad says it weighs 150#  That box is heavy, but is not a 150# item.
I suspect there is more to it.  There seems to be cables
going out of the back, perhaps to something else for the instrument.

thanks
Jim

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 12/20/2017 10:27 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:

PDP 11/03? LSI-11?

Maybe someone can use it. Nice blue color.



VINTAGE-DIGITAL-INSTRUMENTS-COUNTER-HG-ELEMENTS/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302392510749

Bob

The ad says it weighs 150#  That box is heavy, but is not a 150# item.  
I suspect there is more to it.  There seems to be cables

going out of the back, perhaps to something else for the instrument.

thanks
Jim

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

2017-12-21 19:23 GMT+01:00 Bill Gunshannon via cctalk :

> I've never seen a blue tinted front cover from DEC.  I've never seen one
> like
> that with screw holes exposed from the front.  And if you look real close
> it
> appears to have little rubber feet on the bottom.
>
> Which still leaves the question of what if anything is inside that box.
> $250
> is a lot to pay for a QBUS backplane and a PSU.  I've paid less for entire
> running systems.
>

FYI this is how my BA11-M front look like:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FK6p9YvvH9AO-WC0CvEAAWH_QZnnHSVj

Apart from the PDP-11/03 badge and the color they are identical..

/Mattis


> bill
>
> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Noel Chiappa
> via cctalk 
> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 AM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay
>
> > From: Bill Gunshannon
>
> > At best, it's a third part QBUS box.
>
> I assume that was 'third party'?
>
> No, that's a real DEC front panel. They could have put that on an off-brand
> chassis, but I would _guess_ not.
>
> (The outer housing I can see looks like the slide-in ones DEC used to hold
> the BA11-N/BA11-S, but I don't recall what the housing for the BA11-M's
> looked like.)
>
> For some reason the BA11-M's seem to have been going for more than the
> BA11-N's. Dunno why, maybe the original LSI-11's have some sort of appeal?
>
> Noel
>

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

anyone look through what els he has?
someone here might like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROSS-VIDEO-LIMITED-RVS-424-CP-WITH-POWER-SUPPLY-LOADED/301522351826?hash=item463421f6d2:g:yZsAAOSwx-lU2FG5

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I've never seen a blue tinted front cover from DEC.  I've never seen one
> like
> that with screw holes exposed from the front.  And if you look real close
> it
> appears to have little rubber feet on the bottom.
>
> Which still leaves the question of what if anything is inside that box.
> $250
> is a lot to pay for a QBUS backplane and a PSU.  I've paid less for entire
> running systems.
>
> bill
>
> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Noel Chiappa
> via cctalk 
> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 AM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay
>
> > From: Bill Gunshannon
>
> > At best, it's a third part QBUS box.
>
> I assume that was 'third party'?
>
> No, that's a real DEC front panel. They could have put that on an off-brand
> chassis, but I would _guess_ not.
>
> (The outer housing I can see looks like the slide-in ones DEC used to hold
> the BA11-N/BA11-S, but I don't recall what the housing for the BA11-M's
> looked like.)
>
> For some reason the BA11-M's seem to have been going for more than the
> BA11-N's. Dunno why, maybe the original LSI-11's have some sort of appeal?
>
> Noel
>

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I've never seen a blue tinted front cover from DEC.  I've never seen one like
that with screw holes exposed from the front.  And if you look real close it
appears to have little rubber feet on the bottom.

Which still leaves the question of what if anything is inside that box.  $250
is a lot to pay for a QBUS backplane and a PSU.  I've paid less for entire
running systems.

bill


From: cctalk  on behalf of Noel Chiappa via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

> From: Bill Gunshannon

> At best, it's a third part QBUS box.

I assume that was 'third party'?

No, that's a real DEC front panel. They could have put that on an off-brand
chassis, but I would _guess_ not.

(The outer housing I can see looks like the slide-in ones DEC used to hold
the BA11-N/BA11-S, but I don't recall what the housing for the BA11-M's
looked like.)

For some reason the BA11-M's seem to have been going for more than the
BA11-N's. Dunno why, maybe the original LSI-11's have some sort of appeal?

Noel

Re: EPROM baking

[dwight via cctalk]

If you've over voltages them, they are history.

If the ground pin is not making good contact and you try to program them, they 
will also be history.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Pete Rittwage via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 7:05:06 AM
To: Mark G Thomas; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: EPROM baking

> Hi,
>
>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Mark G Thomas via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I am working on several projects requiring 2708 and 2716 EPROMs, and
>> > am finding some of my chips will not erase, and some will not take
>> > a program. I've also learned more in the past week than I wanted
>> > to know about repairing Data-I/O 29a/b programmers.
>> >
>> > I vaguely remember in the 1990s baking such EPROMs in the oven, but
>> > I do not remember temperature or time. I was surprised that Google
>> > didn't turn up anything useful with this info.
>> >
>> > I'm sure someone here will have some notes on EPROM baking.
>> >
>> > Mark
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> If this is an issue about reviving bad eproms?  I assume you have tried
>> the
>> regular stuff.
>>
>> What process are you using now to erase 2708/16's?  I have a simple
>> eraser
>> unit and it seems to always work.  Some eproms go bad but I never have
>> issues with erasing them.  My point is that maybe you need a better prom
>> eraser unit.
>
> They seem to erase fine, using a PRO-LOG 9103 eraser (box, timer, tube...)
>
>> I would avoid baking them until you have exhausted other
>> options.  Not sure what others think.  This topic has come up before
>> here,
>> about putting them outside and all that.  The erasers are all over ebay,
>> and the hardware store is full of the correct types of lighting, why not
>> make a box that will do the job?I assume there is more to it that
>> simply erasing them.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>
> Erasing seems to work fine. It's the re-programming them that is the
> problem.
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 02:49:39PM +, dwight via cctalk wrote:
>> When I was at Intel, years ago, I recall the baking was only to repair
>> the retention of the EPROMs. It was not to fix random failures.
>>
>> It sounds like your EPROMs have various failures that wouldn't be helped
>> by baking.
>>
>> Each time the EPROM is programmed, there is a slight increase in the
>> leakage of the floating gate. This was typical after thousands of
>> program/erase cycles. Baking them repaired the damage to the insulating
>> layer that was damaged.
>>
>> Dwight
>
> I don't think these chips have been reprogrammed many times. It seems more
> age related, affecting some brands/models in my spares but not others.
>
> The failure mode is the chips erase successfully, but any attempt to
> program them fails, and they still test blank and read back "...".
> Some of these were chips I erased years ago before putting in my spares
> drawer, and some had fine working code on them, but I erased them to
> re-program with a newer version of software on them, to discover I could
> not.
>
> My stash of TI and NEC 2732s seem to have the disease, but my ST,
> Mitsubishi, and several others program fine.
>
> In the case of a bunch of 2732s, I have tried both a vintage DataI/O 29A
> programmer and a modern Batronix programmer, with the same results.
> I don't think I have a programmer problem.
>
> I still swear someone in the late 80's had me baking EPROMs in an oven
> to restore their programability, but I don't remember the specifics. I
> tried a few at 450F for 15 minutes, but they still won't program.
>

Are you positive you have the programming voltage right? I have a box of
really old ones and every time I have to research a little to find the
right voltage for different brands. All 27128's are not the same, for
example. Some are 12V, some may be 25V (for example). My programmer only
has one setting in the software, and I have to change jumpers to modify
programming voltage. My USB programmer won't touch any of the old ones
because I assume it can't provide enough voltage/current for them.

-Pete Rittwage

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Bill Gunshannon

> At best, it's a third part QBUS box.

I assume that was 'third party'?

No, that's a real DEC front panel. They could have put that on an off-brand
chassis, but I would _guess_ not.

(The outer housing I can see looks like the slide-in ones DEC used to hold
the BA11-N/BA11-S, but I don't recall what the housing for the BA11-M's
looked like.)

For some reason the BA11-M's seem to have been going for more than the
BA11-N's. Dunno why, maybe the original LSI-11's have some sort of appeal?

Noel

Re: EPROM baking

[Pete Rittwage via cctalk]

> Hi,
>
>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Mark G Thomas via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I am working on several projects requiring 2708 and 2716 EPROMs, and
>> > am finding some of my chips will not erase, and some will not take
>> > a program. I've also learned more in the past week than I wanted
>> > to know about repairing Data-I/O 29a/b programmers.
>> >
>> > I vaguely remember in the 1990s baking such EPROMs in the oven, but
>> > I do not remember temperature or time. I was surprised that Google
>> > didn't turn up anything useful with this info.
>> >
>> > I'm sure someone here will have some notes on EPROM baking.
>> >
>> > Mark
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> If this is an issue about reviving bad eproms?  I assume you have tried
>> the
>> regular stuff.
>>
>> What process are you using now to erase 2708/16's?  I have a simple
>> eraser
>> unit and it seems to always work.  Some eproms go bad but I never have
>> issues with erasing them.  My point is that maybe you need a better prom
>> eraser unit.
>
> They seem to erase fine, using a PRO-LOG 9103 eraser (box, timer, tube...)
>
>> I would avoid baking them until you have exhausted other
>> options.  Not sure what others think.  This topic has come up before
>> here,
>> about putting them outside and all that.  The erasers are all over ebay,
>> and the hardware store is full of the correct types of lighting, why not
>> make a box that will do the job?I assume there is more to it that
>> simply erasing them.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>
> Erasing seems to work fine. It's the re-programming them that is the
> problem.
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 02:49:39PM +, dwight via cctalk wrote:
>> When I was at Intel, years ago, I recall the baking was only to repair
>> the retention of the EPROMs. It was not to fix random failures.
>>
>> It sounds like your EPROMs have various failures that wouldn't be helped
>> by baking.
>>
>> Each time the EPROM is programmed, there is a slight increase in the
>> leakage of the floating gate. This was typical after thousands of
>> program/erase cycles. Baking them repaired the damage to the insulating
>> layer that was damaged.
>>
>> Dwight
>
> I don't think these chips have been reprogrammed many times. It seems more
> age related, affecting some brands/models in my spares but not others.
>
> The failure mode is the chips erase successfully, but any attempt to
> program them fails, and they still test blank and read back "...".
> Some of these were chips I erased years ago before putting in my spares
> drawer, and some had fine working code on them, but I erased them to
> re-program with a newer version of software on them, to discover I could
> not.
>
> My stash of TI and NEC 2732s seem to have the disease, but my ST,
> Mitsubishi, and several others program fine.
>
> In the case of a bunch of 2732s, I have tried both a vintage DataI/O 29A
> programmer and a modern Batronix programmer, with the same results.
> I don't think I have a programmer problem.
>
> I still swear someone in the late 80's had me baking EPROMs in an oven
> to restore their programability, but I don't remember the specifics. I
> tried a few at 450F for 15 minutes, but they still won't program.
>

Are you positive you have the programming voltage right? I have a box of
really old ones and every time I have to research a little to find the
right voltage for different brands. All 27128's are not the same, for
example. Some are 12V, some may be 25V (for example). My programmer only
has one setting in the software, and I have to change jumpers to modify
programming voltage. My USB programmer won't touch any of the old ones
because I assume it can't provide enough voltage/current for them.

-Pete Rittwage

Re: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

That's a lot to pay for a box that might have nothing in it at all.
At best, it's a third part QBUS box.

bill


From: cctalk  on behalf of Bob Rosenbloom via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 1:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

PDP 11/03? LSI-11?

Maybe someone can use it. Nice blue color.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-DIGITAL-INSTRUMENTS-COUNTER-HG-ELEMENTS/302392510749?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Miss categorized DEC box on ebay

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

PDP 11/03? LSI-11?

Maybe someone can use it. Nice blue color.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-DIGITAL-INSTRUMENTS-COUNTER-HG-ELEMENTS/302392510749?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org