MIT needs ASR-33 for a demo

[Evan Koblentz via cctalk]

Who's in the Boston area? A technician at MIT needs to borrow a working 
ASR-33 for demo there this month. Contact me off-list if you can help...

Re: Any interest Risc 6000/250

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

update .. will not be able to email till tomorrow ..

-pete

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:15 PM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> Thanks everyone. I've got a few interested people. I will email the first
> few to replay and the first person who agrees to take it gets it.
>
> I maybe a couple weeks before I can go get it and see what shape it is in.
>
> I't came from a place where one of my job titles was system admin for
> engineering and worked up to the day the place was shutdown.
>
> -pete
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 5:55 PM, jim stephens via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 1/10/2018 5:37 PM, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> ons 2018-01-10 klockan 11:30 -0800 skrev Pete Lancashire via cctalk:
>>>
 https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2

 In storage, if any interest will find out what's in it and the
 condition.

 Location Portland Oregon

 Price cheap/trade

 -pete

>>> Is that related to IBM Xstation of the same era (i do have one of
>>> those) ?
>>>
>> Same here.  I'd be interested in more info.
>> thanks
>> Jim
>>
>>
>

Re: Any interest Risc 6000/250

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

Thanks everyone. I've got a few interested people. I will email the first
few to replay and the first person who agrees to take it gets it.

I maybe a couple weeks before I can go get it and see what shape it is in.

I't came from a place where one of my job titles was system admin for
engineering and worked up to the day the place was shutdown.

-pete

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 5:55 PM, jim stephens via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 1/10/2018 5:37 PM, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote:
>
>> ons 2018-01-10 klockan 11:30 -0800 skrev Pete Lancashire via cctalk:
>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2
>>>
>>> In storage, if any interest will find out what's in it and the
>>> condition.
>>>
>>> Location Portland Oregon
>>>
>>> Price cheap/trade
>>>
>>> -pete
>>>
>> Is that related to IBM Xstation of the same era (i do have one of
>> those) ?
>>
> Same here.  I'd be interested in more info.
> thanks
> Jim
>
>

Re: Any interest Risc 6000/250

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk
 wrote:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2
>

Looks like it might be this system from the 1993 timeframe?

The IBM RISC System/6000 7011 Model 250, Page 1-22

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/rs6000/GA23-2406-03_RISC_System_6000_System_Overview_7ed_Oct93.pdf

66-MHz 601 PowerPC processor
16MB standard system memory
One integrated SCSI-2 controller
One integrated Ethernet IEEE 802.3 port, with a communication rate of
10Mbps. A thick (10Base5) connector is standard on the system and a
twisted pair (10BaseT) adapter is included standard with each system;
an optional transceiver for use with thin (10base2) connectors is
available
Type-3 Micro Channel adapter slots
One diskette bay available for expansion
Standard device ports and connectors:
  Keyboard/speaker port
  Mouse port
  Tablet port
  Two serial ports
  Parallel printer port
  SCSI-2 SE port
  Ethernet port

Re: Any interest Risc 6000/250

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 1/10/2018 5:37 PM, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote:

ons 2018-01-10 klockan 11:30 -0800 skrev Pete Lancashire via cctalk:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2

In storage, if any interest will find out what's in it and the
condition.

Location Portland Oregon

Price cheap/trade

-pete

Is that related to IBM Xstation of the same era (i do have one of
those) ?

Same here.  I'd be interested in more info.
thanks
Jim

Re: Any interest Risc 6000/250

[Stefan Skoglund via cctalk]

ons 2018-01-10 klockan 11:30 -0800 skrev Pete Lancashire via cctalk:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2
> 
> In storage, if any interest will find out what's in it and the
> condition.
> 
> Location Portland Oregon
> 
> Price cheap/trade
> 
> -pete

Is that related to IBM Xstation of the same era (i do have one of
those) ?

RE: PDP11 media looking for a good home

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

I gave an RA60 drive to a list member, but he is in the UK, so possibly it that 
useful.

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: william degnan via cctalk
Sent: 10 January 2018 20:58
To: Paul Koning; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP11 media looking for a good home

Paul,
The VCFed museum (Wall NJ USA) could use the RA60 pack for its 11/44.  I
donated the 11/44 with a RA60 drive a few years ago, but I am unsure if an
RA60-bootable pack came with it, most of what they got are just data packs
IIRC.  I personally don't have an RA60
Please advise and I can send you an address to mail / arrange to pick up.
Bill

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Gentlepeople,
>
> I have two items that I'd like to send to a good home.  That means,
> someone who can read the item in question and make it available so it's
> preserved.
>
> 1. A DECtape labeled "VT30 distribution for RSX11D V06-B".  VT30 is a DEC
> CSS product, a color alphanumeric terminal.
>
> 2. An RA60 pack labeled "RT11 V5.6" and possibly (it's hard to see)
> "kit".  That "kit" seems a bit unlikely, an RA60 is way bigger than makes
> sense for an RT11 kit.  But if it were a source pack that would be a
> different matter.
>
> #2 was found in an abandoned DEC facility; #1 I don't remember, possibly
> the same.
>
> An RA60 pack looks physically like an RM03 pack, but its capacity is much
> larger so the format is entirely different.  A PDP11 or VAX with an RA60
> drive should be able to read it.
>
> If you have the ability to use one or both of these and are willing to
> read the data and post it, please contact me.
>
> paul
>
>

Re: DL10 documentation

[Dave Mitton via cctalk]

>  From: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)

  >> From: Paul Koning
  >> That may be the story, but I don't believe it.

>> Was anyone from whom you have heard differently _at Proteon_? If not...

I could ask John Shriver  ;^)

Dave.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Any interest Risc 6000/250

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2

In storage, if any interest will find out what's in it and the condition.

Location Portland Oregon

Price cheap/trade

-pete

RE: DL10 documentation

[Rich Alderson via cctalk]

From: Noel Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:07 AM

> From: Phil Budne

>> I remember finding documentation on MC for "KLDCP" the original DEC
>> front-end software (suitably defaced) which DEC later replaced with a
>> modified version of RSX-11

> MC, on the other hand, ran KLDCP ('KL Diagnostic Console Program') until the
> end. (The sources of DEC KLDCP version 7 are still available from the MC
> dumps, if anyone wants them, along with the MIT-modified version.) The
> console -11 on MC ran a 'combination' of IOELEV and KLDCP - the two remained
> pretty much separate, just cooperated to share the machine:

>   KLDCP does JSR PC, [to 03000] when it has nothing to do and 10 is
>   running. IOELEV should INIT if it hasn't already, then go into its main
>   loop. It should CLC, RTS PC if the 10 goes down; KLDCP will print
>   appropriate message. To go into temporary KLDCP command mode, SEC, RTS PC.

> I get the impression from the IOELEV source that it ran on the -11 connected
> to the DL10 first (stand-alone, by itself), and was later adapted to share the
> console -11 with KLDCP.

> Amusing comment in the KLDCP source:

>   WE HAVE GONE TO CONSIDERABLE DIFFICULTY AND EXPENSE TO ASSEMBLE A STAFF OF
>   SORCERERS, SHAMANS, CONJURERS AND LAWYERS TO VISIT NETTLESOME AND MYSTIFING
>   DISCOMFORTS ON ANY NINNY WHO ENDEAVORS TO REPRODUCE OR USE THIS PROGRAM IN
>   ANY FORM OR BY ANY MEANS, ELECTRONIC OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING COMPUTERS AND
>   INFORMATION SYSTEMS, WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM THE DEVELOPER. WATCH YOURSELF!

The original KL-10 running WAITS in the SAIL tri-processor system was a 1080 as
well, and used a locally extended version of KLDCP for the front end rather
than a second program such as IOELEV.  This version of KLDCP includes Ethernet
support for the 3Mbit Xerox board, which provides PUP networking to WAITS.

We are looking at adding code to this version of KLDCP to allow setting the TOY
clock, a TCU-150.  (SAIL used a TCU-100 and a hack to get years from 1976-1991;
the TCU-150 provides a YEAR field in the date register.)  I find it interesting
that the SAIL folks never saw the need to do that. :-)

Sources for both the original and the WAITS variant are available for perusal
at SAILDART.org (Bruce Baumgart's site), and will be visible on our WAITS
system once we have IP networking going.

Rich

Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputers.org

http://www.LivingComputers.org/

Re: DP 1000 and filing off IC identifiers? Why?

[Steve Malikoff via cctalk]

Terry said
> I have a third party TRS-80 Model 1 expansion unit that I used with my
> System 80 when I first got disk drives.  I’ve decided I should add some
> pics and info to the System 80 website as I know they were used here in New
> Zealand with System 80’s and, also in the U.K. for the Video Genie.  A
> modified expansion cable was needed to convert from the System 80 expansion
> bus to the TRS-80 Model 1 bus on the unit but that was straightforward.
>
> The interface is called a DP 1000 by General Northern Microcomputers Ltd.
> It has no RAM, but contains a disk controller and printer port.  It was
> designed for ‘80s Model 1s and compatibles that had 48K of RAM under the
> keyboard, rather than requiring it in the expansion unit, as was the
> standard configuration.  Many System 80s had their memory expanded under
> the keyboard so it was ideal for these.  Mine was like this, and I found my
> DP 1000 worked very well with it.
>
> Before I put some info up, I’m wondering if anyone knows any more about
> General Northern Microcomputers Ltd, the company that made the DP 1000?
> I’m pretty sure it’s a U.K. company.
>
> Also, most of the chips have their ID’s shaved off (see the circuit board
> image)??  Why would they do this?  I can only assume it was to stop reverse
> engineering?
>
> Here are some pics:
> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/hardware_DP-1000-front-800.jpg
> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/hardware_DP-1000-back-800.jpg
> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80/hardware_DP-1000-circuit-board-top-hi-res.jpg


I have an Apple II RGB card made in 1981 by D.M.S. Ltd, also in the UK. Its 9 
chips also have the ID's
removed but they did a much smoother job than on your board with the whole top 
blank, presumaby being
sanded off before assembling. Maybe the smaller UK companies like were more 
worried about reverse
engineering, considering the retail cost of microcomputer peripherals at that 
time. Certainly here in
Oz things such as Apple add-ons were not at all cheap.

I don't think it would be too difficult to figure out what most of those chips 
are. Looking at the
printed traces I'm just guessing the two 20-pin ones to the right of the WD 
1771 FDC are perhaps
74LS244 tri-state buffers.

Maybe they can be tested in-circuit with a pulser but otherwise if you didn't 
mind unsoldering them
(resocket afterwards) one of these gizmos could help:
  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IC-Tester-74-40-45-Series-lC-Logic-Gate-Tester-Digital-Detection-IC-Series-Mete

Steve.

Re: PDP11 media looking for a good home

[william degnan via cctalk]

Paul,
The VCFed museum (Wall NJ USA) could use the RA60 pack for its 11/44.  I
donated the 11/44 with a RA60 drive a few years ago, but I am unsure if an
RA60-bootable pack came with it, most of what they got are just data packs
IIRC.  I personally don't have an RA60
Please advise and I can send you an address to mail / arrange to pick up.
Bill

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Gentlepeople,
>
> I have two items that I'd like to send to a good home.  That means,
> someone who can read the item in question and make it available so it's
> preserved.
>
> 1. A DECtape labeled "VT30 distribution for RSX11D V06-B".  VT30 is a DEC
> CSS product, a color alphanumeric terminal.
>
> 2. An RA60 pack labeled "RT11 V5.6" and possibly (it's hard to see)
> "kit".  That "kit" seems a bit unlikely, an RA60 is way bigger than makes
> sense for an RT11 kit.  But if it were a source pack that would be a
> different matter.
>
> #2 was found in an abandoned DEC facility; #1 I don't remember, possibly
> the same.
>
> An RA60 pack looks physically like an RM03 pack, but its capacity is much
> larger so the format is entirely different.  A PDP11 or VAX with an RA60
> drive should be able to read it.
>
> If you have the ability to use one or both of these and are willing to
> read the data and post it, please contact me.
>
> paul
>
>

PDP11 media looking for a good home

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

Gentlepeople,

I have two items that I'd like to send to a good home.  That means, someone who 
can read the item in question and make it available so it's preserved.

1. A DECtape labeled "VT30 distribution for RSX11D V06-B".  VT30 is a DEC CSS 
product, a color alphanumeric terminal.

2. An RA60 pack labeled "RT11 V5.6" and possibly (it's hard to see) "kit".  
That "kit" seems a bit unlikely, an RA60 is way bigger than makes sense for an 
RT11 kit.  But if it were a source pack that would be a different matter.

#2 was found in an abandoned DEC facility; #1 I don't remember, possibly the 
same.

An RA60 pack looks physically like an RM03 pack, but its capacity is much 
larger so the format is entirely different.  A PDP11 or VAX with an RA60 drive 
should be able to read it.

If you have the ability to use one or both of these and are willing to read the 
data and post it, please contact me.

paul

Generic Cassette interfaces (was: data cassette and robotic arms)

[Kelly Leavitt via cctalk]

All this talk about computer cassette data got me reminiscing.


Back in the late 80's and early 90's I worked programming remote Campbell 
Scientific data loggers for an environmental engineering group. The device 
could store well head data for several days and monitor 8 wells from one data 
logger. Field techs (like me) would go around the active sites and download the 
data from the units onto cassette tapes using a device like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Campbell-Scientific-Inc-C20-Cassette-Interface-/391956667276?hash=item5b42701b8c


Here's some technical info on the device: 
https://s.campbellsci.com/documents/us/product-brochures/b_c20.pdf


When we got back, the data would be read from cassette into VisiCalc on the 
TRS-80 model IIs we used.

Later I wrote a program to read the data into Microsoft multiplan running under 
Tandy Xenix. We'd plug the interface into a terminal aux port, open it for 
reading, then convert it into a SYLK layout.


Were there other devices that did data transport like that.

Kelly

Re: data cassette and robotic arms

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 01/10/2018 09:27 AM, David Griffith via cctalk wrote:
> 
> This looks like fun.
> 
> http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/decoding-old-data-casette-format
> 
> I'm not associated in any way with this.

Most of the commercial/industrial tape cassette drives of the 70s and
80s used standard saturation recording, not audio recording.   I
remember a dual-deck Techtran drive that I was very fond of.  It could
run up to 9600 bps and do searches as well as tape-to-tape copying.

I'm occasionally contacted by folks with old EDM rigs, like the
Mitsubishi DWC-90H, looking for help.  Those took an external cassette
drive.  Fortunately, there's an outfit that offers a PC-based solution
to supply the tape deck functionality.

For a time, cassette decks were used as a substitute for punched paper
tape in the commercial embroidery business  They were supplanted by
floppy drive boxes, eventually (e.g. Barudan).

--Chuck

data cassette and robotic arms

[David Griffith via cctalk]

This looks like fun.

http://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/decoding-old-data-casette-format

I'm not associated in any way with this.

--
David Griffith
d...@661.org

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

Re: DL10 documentation

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Paul Koning

> That may be the story, but I don't believe it.

Well, I was right there - I was the chief architect of the Proteon router
product, for which John Moy worked, and was the person who pushed John into
doing OSPF (he didn't think he knew enough).

I'm to busy right now to dig back through my ancient records (paper and email)
to find details, but I can assure you we did not 'base' OSPF on IS-IS.

Was anyone from whom you have heard differently _at Proteon_? If not...

 Noel

Re: DL10 documentation

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jan 9, 2018, at 7:56 PM, Phil Budne via cctalk  
> wrote:
>...
>DC44TYPESET-10 front end (PDP-11) for PTR (PA611R), PTP (PA611P), CAT? 
> photocomposition machine (LPC11)

That takes me back a while... 6 channel paper tape equipment, for communicating 
with typesetting machinery of that era.

Which reminds me:

> ...(*) "A Network For 10s?" possibly based on a VERY early spec for
> DECnet.  It may have used link-state routing.  I don't think routing
> in DECnet appeared before Phase III; 

I don't know anything about ANF-10.  But while routing appeared in DECnet with 
phase 3, that was not the first time DEC did routing.  Earlier (late 1977, I 
think -- certainly by summer 1978), Typeset-11 did link state routing.  It had 
a primitive kind of cluster that operated by passing work around as files, via 
a proprietary protocol over DMC-11 links, with link state routing.  It was 
pretty transparent: terminals were connected to any of the nodes, and could 
edit work and pass it around (to other people or to processing components such 
as typesetting back ends) independent of the location of those other resources.

paul

Re: DL10 documentation

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jan 10, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> From: Paul Koning
> 
>> That was then adopted by OSI as IS-IS, and further tweaked to become
>> OSPF.
> 
> Err, no. OSPF was not a descendant of IS-IS - it was a separate development,
> based mainly on the ARPANET's original link state routing. (I can't recall if
> John Moy and I took a lot from the later 'area' version of the ARPANET link
> state, although we knew of it.) I think we became aware of IS-IS as OSPF
> progressed, and IIRC John 'borrowed' a few ideas (maybe the sequence number
> thing).

That may be the story, but I don't believe it.  Contemporary accounts have it 
that he started from a draft IS-IS spec.

paul

Re: DL10 documentation

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Paul Koning

> That was then adopted by OSI as IS-IS, and further tweaked to become
> OSPF.

Err, no. OSPF was not a descendant of IS-IS - it was a separate development,
based mainly on the ARPANET's original link state routing. (I can't recall if
John Moy and I took a lot from the later 'area' version of the ARPANET link
state, although we knew of it.) I think we became aware of IS-IS as OSPF
progressed, and IIRC John 'borrowed' a few ideas (maybe the sequence number
thing).

IS-IS was later evolved to handle both OSI and IP addresses (and has, I
assume, since been extended to handle IPv6 too).

Noel

Re: DL10 documentation

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jan 9, 2018, at 7:56 PM, Phil Budne via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> ...
> (*) "A Network For 10s?" possibly based on a VERY early spec for
> DECnet.  It may have used link-state routing.  I don't think routing
> in DECnet appeared before Phase III; Between Phase II systems you
> needed to use a passthru service, and ended up hand specifying routes,
> like in the UUCP world: A::B::C:: -- DECnet routing (at least up to
> Phase IV) was distance vector (within an area, I think node zero was
> designated to be a route to an inter-area router).  The ONE nice thing
> I remember about Phase IV is that an area could span multiple Ethernet
> links, so you didn't have to waste a "network number" on each Ether
> segment the way you had to use a Class-C in TCP/IP before subnetting.
> I've wondered how much longer the IPv4 address space might have lasted
> if there hadn't been a constraint that each network link have its own
> network number (and each interface be uniquely addressable).

DECnet phase 1 was point to point, usually described as RSX only though there 
is a DECnet-8 document that describes it.  

DECnet phase 2 is also point to point except for "intercept" nodes which do 
routing (by node name -- not number).  As I understand it, intercept was 
intended for PDP-10/20 systems where the front end would be the intercept, but 
that may be a misunderstanding on my part.  I worked on DECnet/E, which neither 
asked for nor offered intercept.  An intercept node is more than a router, 
actually; it keeps connection state (NSP state) so it can disconnect 
connections whose destination has gone away.  Note that Phase 2 NSP doesn't do 
timeout and retransmit, because it works on a "reliable" datalink (DDCMP).

DECnet phase 3 adds distance vector routing, NSP now has timeout and 
retransmit.  255 nodes max, no hierarchy.  Still only point to point (X.25 was 
added).

DECnet phase 4 adds hierarchy, Ethernet support.  This is where the infamous 
"high order MAC address" hack was concocted.  And yes, areas are not subnets, 
for that matter addresses are node addresses, not interface addresses, in all 
versions of DECnet.  That made a bunch of things much cleaner while 
complicating a few others.  Phase 4 is still distance vector, now with two 
instances: one for routing within the area, one for routing among areas.  The 
latter is present only in area routers.  And yes, in the within-area routing 
table, node number 0 is the alias for "any destination outside this area".

> DECnet Phase V encompassed ISO, and might have included IS-IS,
> which Rhea Perlman had a hand in (while at DEC?).  XNS (and hence
> Netware) had 32-bits network number (host/node address was 48 bits
> (ethernet address) and might also have had longer legs for global
> use.

Phase 5 adopted OSI ES-IS (network layer) and TP-4 (transport layer).  ISO 
didn't have a routing protocol; their theory was that the world is X.25-ish 
stuff where telcos do the routing in a proprietary way.  That was obviously 
nonsense, so the DECnet architecture team created a link state routing protocol 
inspired by earlier IP work, with a lot of fixes to deal with failures.  That 
was then adopted by OSI as IS-IS, and further tweaked to become OSPF.

A bit of obscure history: When she first arrived at DEC (1981?), Radia proposed 
a link state routing protocol for what would be phase 4.  That wasn't adopted 
because it was considered too complicated by the VMS team; instead "phase 3e (3 
extended)" was created by a straightforward hack of phase 3, and that is what 
we now know as phase 4.  But the packet headers in Radia's proposal were 
retained for the Eternet case, which is where the "long headers" come from with 
a whole pile of fields with strange names that are for practical purposes 
simply reserved values.  When we outgrew phase 4 and link state was dusted off 
again, OSI had become relevant so a new design was created on that basis.  So 
the link state algorithm is in IS-IS but the packet formats and addressing are 
entirely different from the previous "long header" Ethernet stuff.

All DECnet versions from phase 3 onward were one phase backward compatible.  
Phase 2 wasn't backward compatible with phase 1; the packet formats are rather 
different.  I'm not sure why this wasn't done; perhaps no one thought it would 
be interesting.  No DEC product that I know of was multiple-phase backward 
compatible and no spec says how to do that, but it isn't actually hard; my 
Python based router does so.

paul

Re: Getting Sun Sparcstation 10 to recognize its graphics card

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 8:56 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Yeah, I use a 13W3 adapter and a VGA Samsung SyncMaster LCD on my bench.
> The adapter is generic and happens to work on both Sun and SGI machines (as
> mentioned, this is not guaranteed).
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
>
At this point I see the scrolling bars of a synch issue.  I can drop using
STOP A to the OK prompt (even though I can't actually see it) and run the
boot command from the keyboard confirming that I can at least use the
keyboard now and initiate a reboot without serial terminal.  So my machine
is probably getting closer to what I wanted even if so far I don't have the
correct display / cable combo installed.  I have a lot of displays and
13W3/4 wire/VGA converter cables/etc to mess around with so sooner or later
I will get one.



Bill

Re: Getting Sun Sparcstation 10 to recognize its graphics card

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

Yeah, I use a 13W3 adapter and a VGA Samsung SyncMaster LCD on my bench.
The adapter is generic and happens to work on both Sun and SGI machines (as
mentioned, this is not guaranteed).

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 7:03 AM, Jonathan Katz via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Rico Pajarola via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I assume it's just the screen staying blank. Note that using an SGI
> monitor
> > on a sun using a 13W3 to 13W3 cable will not work. There's 2 ways around
> > it: you can either use a 13W3 to BNC cable connected to a BNC to 13W3
> cable
> > to connect the monitor, thus disconnecting all non-RGB pins, or you can
> cut
> > off the extra (non-RGB) pins on either side of the cable (I've
> successfully
> > done that to connect SGI machines to SUN monitors but it should work the
> > other way around too).
> >
> >
> I may have gotten the SUNW system -> SGI Monitor thing backwards. There are
> cobwebs in this part of my brain!
>

Re: DL10 documentation

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Phil Budne

> ISTR the DTE was a DMA interface, not memory mapping like the DL10

I don't know either; I could probably work it out from looking at the DTE
documentation, which I'm too lazy/busy to do... :-)

> I also seem to recall that MC was designated as a "1080" which the above
> URL says means "Model A, External channels only, tall cabs

Yup, that's what it was.

> I remember finding documentation on MC for "KLDCP" the original DEC
> front-end software (suitably defaced) which DEC later replaced with a
> modified version of RSX-11

MC, on the other hand, ran KLDCP ('KL Diagnostic Console Program') until the
end. (The sources of DEC KLDCP version 7 are still available from the MC
dumps, if anyone wants them, along with the MIT-modified version.) The console
-11 on MC ran a 'combination' of IOELEV and KLDCP - the two remained pretty
much separate, just cooperated to share the machine:

  KLDCP does JSR PC, [to 03000] when it has nothing to do and 10 is
  running. IOELEV should INIT if it hasn't already, then go into its main
  loop. It should CLC, RTS PC if the 10 goes down; KLDCP will print
  appropriate message. To go into temporary KLDCP command mode, SEC, RTS PC.

I get the impression from the IOELEV source that it ran on the -11 connected
to the DL10 first (stand-alone, by itself), and was later adapted to share the
console -11 with KLDCP.

Amusing comment in the KLDCP source:

  WE HAVE GONE TO CONSIDERABLE DIFFICULTY AND EXPENSE TO ASSEMBLE A STAFF OF
  SORCERERS, SHAMANS, CONJURERS AND LAWYERS TO VISIT NETTLESOME AND MYSTIFING
  DISCOMFORTS ON ANY NINNY WHO ENDEAVORS TO REPRODUCE OR USE THIS PROGRAM IN
  ANY FORM OR BY ANY MEANS, ELECTRONIC OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING COMPUTERS AND
  INFORMATION SYSTEMS, WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM THE DEVELOPER. WATCH YOURSELF!

   > diagnostic KLINIC (sp?) line).

KLINIK, according to KLDCP stuff.

Noel

Re: Getting Sun Sparcstation 10 to recognize its graphics card

[Jonathan Katz via cctalk]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Rico Pajarola via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I assume it's just the screen staying blank. Note that using an SGI monitor
> on a sun using a 13W3 to 13W3 cable will not work. There's 2 ways around
> it: you can either use a 13W3 to BNC cable connected to a BNC to 13W3 cable
> to connect the monitor, thus disconnecting all non-RGB pins, or you can cut
> off the extra (non-RGB) pins on either side of the cable (I've successfully
> done that to connect SGI machines to SUN monitors but it should work the
> other way around too).
>
>
I may have gotten the SUNW system -> SGI Monitor thing backwards. There are
cobwebs in this part of my brain!

New Items from Sellam's Collection For Sale (8-bit Bonanza)

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

Hello Folks,

I've listed a bunch of new items for sale, all of them 8-bit boxed
computers and peripherals.

Apple Joystick IIe and IIc (boxed) - $65
Atari 1027 Letter Quality Printer (boxed) - $45
Commodore 64 (boxed, incomplete, bad video) - $55
Commodore MPS-803 Printer (boxed) - $50
Databar OSCAR Optical Scanning Reader for TI 99/4a (boxed, incomplete) - $40
Dauphin DTR-1 "Desktop Replacement" (boxed)* - qty. 2, both work; 2nd unit
is missing its stylus; both units require minor solder repair to power
supply connector - $250 for first unit, $150 for second unit, $350 for both
Gibson Light Pen System for Apple II/II+/IIe (boxed) - $40
IBM PC Convertible Serial/Parallel Interface (boxed) - $15
IBM PCjr Joystick (boxed, shrinkwrapped, qty. 2) - $20 each
Logitech ScanMan Handheld Scanner (boxed) - $25
Radio Shack TRS-80 Deluxe Joystick Cat. No. 26-3012A (boxed) - $35
Science Fair [Radio Shack Cat. No. 28-218] Digital Computer Kit (boxed) -
$35
Thrustmaster Rudder Control System (IBM and Mac) (boxed) - $25
Flight Link AV-C Flight Simulator Controls - hardware only; needs work; not
boxed - $250
Wico Merlin Joystick (boxed) - $20
Yamaha CX5M Music Computer (boxed) - $165

More information is available on the VCFed forums at the following link:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58709-New-Items-For-Sale-Check-the-List-and-Make-an-Offer-or-Request=493450#post493450

I also created an unboxing video for your viewing pleasure:

https://youtu.be/I-yu1EsR9Xg

The description has a video index in case you want to jump to specific
items.

As always, please reply directly to me via e-mail for the fastest response.

Thanks!

Sellam

Re: Getting Sun Sparcstation 10 to recognize its graphics card

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

Jonathan may be on to something here. I only deal with Sun stuff and am 
mostly unfamiliar with SGI stuff. However, I use LCD displays with 
13W3-to-VGA adapters on my Suns and, relevant to this discussion, I know 
that the adapters used with Suns are different from the ones with SGIs, 
though I don't know the details.


alan

On 1/9/18 4:01 PM, systems_glitch via cctech wrote:

Bill,

Are you sure the SGI monitor will work with the Sun graphics adapter? Just
because the plug fits doesn't mean the monitors are compatible, when it
comes to 13W3. It may be just transferring control to the video console and
*appear* to be locking up, and you're not getting anything out of the
display as a result.

Do you get diagnostic LED patterns on the keyboard LEDs?

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, william degnan via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Working from this page to configure my sparcstation 10 after NVRAM
replacement:
http://www.obsolyte.com/sunFAQ/faq_nvram.html

...but curious is there an installation manual or whatever specific to the
video card in my system, a TurboXGX with STP3010GPA chip
http://vintagecomputer.net/sun/SparcStation-10/Sun_STP3010PGA_TURBOXGX.jpg

I have Solaris 4 installed.  I am guessing around trying different things.
With help I have the OS installed but so far I can't get the system to
recognize the video card and Sun keyboard.  With these installed it freezes
the system...so, I am using a serial terminal to interact with the system.
The video display I have is an SGI GDM-20D11

Eventually I'll poke through to the solution, this is my first Sun box, up
to this point they were "too new" but I'd like to learn how to perform a
system install.

If I find the answers I am looking for I'll post here.

Bill

Re: Getting Sun Sparcstation 10 to recognize its graphics card

[Jonathan Katz via cctalk]

SGIs did sync on green. Sun uses a dedicated signal. SGI trinitron-based
(Sony OEM) monitors should handle both. If you boot your SS10 to the point
where you think it is dead and then unplug/replug the keyboard it should
bring you back to the “ok” prompt. Shows the system is still running OK
without output.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 at 07:40, Alan Perry via cctech 
wrote:

> Jonathan may be on to something here. I only deal with Sun stuff and am
> mostly unfamiliar with SGI stuff. However, I use LCD displays with
> 13W3-to-VGA adapters on my Suns and, relevant to this discussion, I know
> that the adapters used with Suns are different from the ones with SGIs,
> though I don't know the details.
>
> alan
>
> On 1/9/18 4:01 PM, systems_glitch via cctech wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > Are you sure the SGI monitor will work with the Sun graphics adapter?
> Just
> > because the plug fits doesn't mean the monitors are compatible, when it
> > comes to 13W3. It may be just transferring control to the video console
> and
> > *appear* to be locking up, and you're not getting anything out of the
> > display as a result.
> >
> > Do you get diagnostic LED patterns on the keyboard LEDs?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, william degnan via cctech <
> > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Working from this page to configure my sparcstation 10 after NVRAM
> >> replacement:
> >> http://www.obsolyte.com/sunFAQ/faq_nvram.html
> >>
> >> ...but curious is there an installation manual or whatever specific to
> the
> >> video card in my system, a TurboXGX with STP3010GPA chip
> >>
> http://vintagecomputer.net/sun/SparcStation-10/Sun_STP3010PGA_TURBOXGX.jpg
> >>
> >> I have Solaris 4 installed.  I am guessing around trying different
> things.
> >> With help I have the OS installed but so far I can't get the system to
> >> recognize the video card and Sun keyboard.  With these installed it
> freezes
> >> the system...so, I am using a serial terminal to interact with the
> system.
> >> The video display I have is an SGI GDM-20D11
> >>
> >> Eventually I'll poke through to the solution, this is my first Sun box,
> up
> >> to this point they were "too new" but I'd like to learn how to perform a
> >> system install.
> >>
> >> If I find the answers I am looking for I'll post here.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
>
> --
-Jon
+44 7792 149029

Re: Getting Sun Sparcstation 10 to recognize its graphics card

[Rico Pajarola via cctalk]

Freeze as in "screen stays blank (but pressing caps lock changes the LED)",
or "system does not boot at all", or "system boots but locks up when
initializing graphics"?

I assume it's just the screen staying blank. Note that using an SGI monitor
on a sun using a 13W3 to 13W3 cable will not work. There's 2 ways around
it: you can either use a 13W3 to BNC cable connected to a BNC to 13W3 cable
to connect the monitor, thus disconnecting all non-RGB pins, or you can cut
off the extra (non-RGB) pins on either side of the cable (I've successfully
done that to connect SGI machines to SUN monitors but it should work the
other way around too).


On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 9:18 PM, william degnan via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Working from this page to configure my sparcstation 10 after NVRAM
> replacement:
> http://www.obsolyte.com/sunFAQ/faq_nvram.html
>
> ...but curious is there an installation manual or whatever specific to the
> video card in my system, a TurboXGX with STP3010GPA chip
> http://vintagecomputer.net/sun/SparcStation-10/Sun_STP3010PGA_TURBOXGX.jpg
>
> I have Solaris 4 installed.  I am guessing around trying different things.
> With help I have the OS installed but so far I can't get the system to
> recognize the video card and Sun keyboard.  With these installed it freezes
> the system...so, I am using a serial terminal to interact with the system.
> The video display I have is an SGI GDM-20D11
>
> Eventually I'll poke through to the solution, this is my first Sun box, up
> to this point they were "too new" but I'd like to learn how to perform a
> system install.
>
> If I find the answers I am looking for I'll post here.
>
> Bill
>

Re: offering: computer, A/V and optical equipment, plus books and more, to be cleared out around mid-December

[em gee via cctalk]

Happy New Year to everyone.  The ‘deadline’ was relaxed a bit (due to the
holidays) and I also updated the overview (here: )
once more.

 - MG


2017-12-04 5:50 GMT+01:00 em gee :

> Thank you for the interest, today I'll personally reply to those who
> showed interest.  (My apologies, I didn't find the opportunity during the
> weekend.)
>
> I also created another overview of what I have up for sale: <
> http://bit.ly/2ifO5xE>  (Which I'll be updating.)
>
>  - MG
>
>