Re: PDP11 media looking for a good home

[Alan Frisbie via cctalk]

Paul Koning  wrote:

> I have two items that I'd like to send to a good home.  That
> means, someone who can read the item in question and make it
> available so it's preserved.

> 1. A DECtape labeled "VT30 distribution for RSX11D V06-B".
> VT30 is a DEC CSS product, a color alphanumeric terminal.

I have a DECtape TU56 drive and a PDP-11/34, along with
RSX for same, so I could copy it for posterity.   However,
the drive and the PDP-11 are in different rooms right now,
and it would be several months before I could unite them
and copy the tape.   If you cannot find someone who can do
it quicker, I will be happy to do the job.

(I will be out of town until Tuesday 1/16 and unable to
access email.)

Alan Frisbie

Re: Any interest Risc 6000/250

[devin davison via cctalk]

I would be interested in taking a look at such a machine so i could check
out AIX. does it take standard vga video and a ps2 keyboard / mouse? can
the os install media still be purchased or downloaded?

if you are looking to trade i have to choose from acouple sgi indys, some
tandy gear, and a couple hp 9000 systems to used with test equipment. i
have lots more embedded dos machines and the like here too, if those would
be of any interest let me know.

On Jan 11, 2018 12:11 PM, "Stefan Skoglund via cctalk" <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> ons 2018-01-10 klockan 18:10 -0800 skrev Glen Slick via cctalk:
> > On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk
> >  wrote:
> > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2
> > >
> >
> > Looks like it might be this system from the 1993 timeframe?
> >
> > The IBM RISC System/6000 7011 Model 250, Page 1-22
> >
> > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/rs6000/GA23-2406-03_RISC_System_6000
> > _System_Overview_7ed_Oct93.pdf
> >
> > 66-MHz 601 PowerPC processor
> > 16MB standard system memory
> One integrated SCSI-2 controller
> One integrated Ethernet IEEE 802.3 port, with a communication rate of
> 10Mbps. A thick (10Base5) connector is standard on the system and a
> twisted pair (10BaseT) adapter is included standard with each system;
> an optional transceiver for use with thin (10base2) connectors is
> available
> Type-3 Micro Channel adapter slots
> One diskette bay available for expansion
> Standard device ports and connectors:
>   Keyboard/speaker port
>   Mouse port
>   Tablet port
>   Two serial ports
>   Parallel printer port
>   SCSI-2 SE port
>   Ethernet port
>
>
> ie a far deal faster than an base-line Sun SS10
> and AUI for the Ethernet connection (with included vampire-tap
> transceiver.)
> It is concurrent with the IPX (small box and the same time-frame.)
>

Re: PDP11 media looking for a good home

[shadoooo via cctalk]

Hello Paul,
I have a VT30 board set, it would be nice to receive a copy, if not the
original, of related bits you have!
Maybe also some documentation?

Thanks
Andrea

Re: DL10 documentation

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

   > I had a major WTF moment at that. The actress had a prior or parallel
   > career as an engineer?


Is Rhea Jo Perlman (1948-)the same person as Radia Joy Perlman (1951-)?

They don't look much alike, . . .

KA10 ITS revived

[Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk]

> Richard Cornwell wants to implement DL10 for his KA10/KI10 simulator,

Speaking of which, Richard and I have been working on running ITS on
this.  (KA10 obviously, since ITS never ran on a KI10.)

It's been over 30 years since all KA10 ITS machines where shut down.
But a few days ago we had it booting in the simulator and running the
HACTRN DDT.

Hats off to the ITS maintainers (mainly Alan Bawden, I think) for
keeping the software in good shape during the latter half of the 80s!

Re: DL10 documentation

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jan 11, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
> wrote:
> ...
> Like I said, we did 'borrow' some idea from IS-IS, in particular the sequence
> number thing - but that may have come direct from Radia's paper:
> 
>  Radia Perlman, "Fault-Tolerant Broadcast of Routing Information", Computer
>Networks, Dec. 1983

Yes, that documents work she did at DEC early on, while developing the original 
link state routing proposal that was intended to be Phase IV but was set aside 
as "too complicated".

> I don't recall where the concept of a designated router stuff came from, if
> IS-IS was any influence there or not.

Designated router was part of DECnet Phase IV, so early 1980s.  OSPF does it in 
a fundamentally different way: DECnet aimed to be deterministic, OSPF aims to 
be stable.  The consequence is that in DECnet a given topology always has the 
same designated router no matter the sequence in which things came together, 
while in OSPF the designated router depends the order in which things happened. 
 There are arguments for either approach; in routers it doesn't matter much.

paul

Re: DL10 documentation

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 11 January 2018 at 19:03, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
> > From: Liam Proven
>
> > I had a major WTF moment at that. The actress had a prior or parallel
> > career as an engineer?
>
> Why not? Hedy Lamarr:
>
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr
>
> invented spread spectrum communications! :-)

True!

I wasn't saying it was impossible or anything, merely that I thought I
might have heard about that, as I had heard about Ms Lamarr.

British TV comedians Graeme Garden and Harry Hill were both medical
doctors before their media careers, for instance. It does happen.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: DL10 documentation

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Liam Proven

> I had a major WTF moment at that. The actress had a prior or parallel
> career as an engineer?

Why not? Hedy Lamarr:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr

invented spread spectrum communications! :-)


> From: Dave Mitton

> I could ask John Shriver  ;^)

Sure, not a bad idea. He was on the edge of that (he wasn't really part of
the IETF world), but perhaps he has some memory that would bear.

Noel

Re: DL10 documentation

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 10 January 2018 at 01:56, Phil Budne via cctalk
 wrote:

>
> DECnet Phase V encompassed ISO, and might have included IS-IS,
> which Rhea Perlman had a hand in (while at DEC?).

I had a major WTF moment at that. The actress had a prior or parallel
career as an engineer?

Some Googling revealed that you have your R Perlmans muddled. It's
Radia Perlman, designer of Spanning Tree.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Any interest Risc 6000/250

[Stefan Skoglund via cctalk]

ons 2018-01-10 klockan 18:10 -0800 skrev Glen Slick via cctalk:
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk
>  wrote:
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqEF53fVbpNhYoTX2
> > 
> 
> Looks like it might be this system from the 1993 timeframe?
> 
> The IBM RISC System/6000 7011 Model 250, Page 1-22
> 
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/rs6000/GA23-2406-03_RISC_System_6000
> _System_Overview_7ed_Oct93.pdf
> 
> 66-MHz 601 PowerPC processor
> 16MB standard system memory
One integrated SCSI-2 controller
One integrated Ethernet IEEE 802.3 port, with a communication rate of
10Mbps. A thick (10Base5) connector is standard on the system and a
twisted pair (10BaseT) adapter is included standard with each system;
an optional transceiver for use with thin (10base2) connectors is
available
Type-3 Micro Channel adapter slots
One diskette bay available for expansion
Standard device ports and connectors:
  Keyboard/speaker port
  Mouse port
  Tablet port
  Two serial ports
  Parallel printer port
  SCSI-2 SE port
  Ethernet port


ie a far deal faster than an base-line Sun SS10
and AUI for the Ethernet connection (with included vampire-tap
transceiver.)
It is concurrent with the IPX (small box and the same time-frame.)

Re: DL10 documentation

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> I'm to[o] busy right now to dig back through my ancient records (paper
> and email) to find details

So while I didn't have time to do either of these (my Proteon email, if I
still even have it, will be on a magtape I'd have to get Chuck to read; and
the paper records are mixed in with a giant pile of other stuff - I was on the
IESG while I was at Proteon, and it's all mixed in together), I did take a
quick look online to see if I could locate anything from that time period -
knowing how bad human memory really is, I wanted to make sure my memory wasn't
playing me false.

I didn't have high hopes, since stuff from the late 80's is hard to find
online, and I my expectations weren't disappointed (at least, in the brief
time I could put into it), but I did happen to turn up this:

  John T. Moy, "OSPF: Anatomy of an Internet Routing Protocol"

which I'd vaguely heard about, but don't have (although I have everyone else's
books; I'll have to get a copy), wherein one may find (pg. 303) this:

  "OSPF considered, but did not use, IS-IS as a starting point."

which seems fairly definitive, and straight from the horse's mouth.


I do wish I had access to more contemporary documents to, to give it a bit
more detail. As I recall the circumstances, I had previously wanted to do a
link-state replacement for EGP (to be called FGP) but Dave Clark (who was at
that time on the Proteon board) shot it down (IIRC, in part because he thought
it was too big a job for John - and John was not sanguine either; whereas I
had already seen enough of John to know he was quite capable of it).

That part I remember clearly, but from here on out it gets hazy (I was so busy
with goings-on in the IETF, juggling so many things with that, Proteon, etc),
alas; and it's been too many years since those memories were refreshed by use.
I do recall that we also needed a better IGP, as RIP was not really that good,
and Proteon decided they could do that - and John and I would have agreed that
a link-state design was the only way to go.

It started out as a Proteon-specific thing, for Proteon's customers, but like
SGMP (which started in similar circumstances, before morphing into SNMP), it
soon turned into an 'open' effort, in the IETF. I don't recall how (i.e. why)
that happened, but I assume it was a similar set of reasoning as with
SGMP/SNMP. It might be that if the IETF email archives from that period can be
found, they'd have some useful coverage of that.

My vague memory is that our biggest design influence was the ARPANET work, and
especially the later version which added area support (described in:

  Josh Seeger and Atul Khanna, "Reducing Routing Overhead in a Growing DDN",
MILCOMM '86, IEEE, 1986

which I have in hardcopy somewhere, which I saw on the top of a pile recently,
so I can scan it if someone's interested), and also the subject of a memorable
briefing to the proto-IETF by Linda Seamonson, which I remember clearly - not
the technical details, alas, just at how good a presentation it was! :-) I
remember in particular they had a very elegant/clever method for defining the
area boundaries.

Like I said, we did 'borrow' some idea from IS-IS, in particular the sequence
number thing - but that may have come direct from Radia's paper:

  Radia Perlman, "Fault-Tolerant Broadcast of Routing Information", Computer
Networks, Dec. 1983

I don't recall where the concept of a designated router stuff came from, if
IS-IS was any influence there or not.

I did interact with John quite a bit in the very early design stages (I'd been
making a deep study of routing for quite a few years, so I was really the only
person there who was steeped in routing he could talk to), but as the work
prgressed - particularly once it moved to the IETF - I got out of the loop, as
I was too busy with other things, and he clearly had things in hand. I also
seem to vaguely recall disagreeing with him about some design points, but I
can't remember what.


Anyway, probably the wrong list for this. (Internet-history would have been
better.) Sorry, I didn't mean to get into a long thing, thought I was just
correcting a bit of nth-hand 'telephone-game' type garbling of a minor point.>

Noel

Re: data cassette and robotic arms

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2018, Chuck Guzis wrote:

For a time, cassette decks were used as a substitute for punched paper
tape in the commercial embroidery business  They were supplanted by
floppy drive boxes, eventually (e.g. Barudan).


And paper tape is still used in that business (all kind of NC businesses). 
We got the request to copy a severly worn out tape some time ago, and they 
were very happy that we could do that with no problems :-)


Christian