Re: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Sat, 19 May 2018, Ed Sharpe wrote:

Happy Armed Forces Day 2018 Saturday, May 19 ... Do not forget our brave men 
and women! Ed# WWW,SMECC,org    KF7RWW


a) This is an international list
b) This topic has absolutely nothing to do with classic computing
c) I get a bit allergic about glorifyin arms and the like

Christian

Re: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Holm Tiffe via cctalk]

Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

> On Sat, 19 May 2018, Ed Sharpe wrote:
> > Happy Armed Forces Day 2018 Saturday, May 19 ... Do not forget our brave 
> > men and women! Ed# WWW,SMECC,org    KF7RWW
> 
> a) This is an international list
> b) This topic has absolutely nothing to do with classic computing
> c) I get a bit allergic about glorifyin arms and the like
> 
> Christian


Agree fully.

Regards,

Holm

-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

Re: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

Opps  Noted. Ed#
 
In a message dated 5/20/2018 2:29:47 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
 Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

> On Sat, 19 May 2018, Ed Sharpe wrote:
> > Happy Armed Forces Day 2018 Saturday, May 19 ... Do not forget our brave 
> > men and women! Ed# WWW,SMECC,org    KF7RWW
> 
> a) This is an international list
> b) This topic has absolutely nothing to do with classic computing
> c) I get a bit allergic about glorifyin arms and the like
> 
> Christian


Agree fully.

Regards,

Holm

-- 
 Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

MS11 M8110/M8120 controller card differences

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

So I notice that M8120 controller card for the MS11 seems to share its etch
with the earlier M8110 variant (the M8120 says "M8110" in the etch :-); so the
differences must be component/configuration/ECO. Does anyone happen to know
what the differences between the two are? Thanks!

 Noel

Re: Interest Check: Belden Thicknet 10base5 Ethernet Coax

[Tony Aiuto via cctalk]

Hi. I almost forget about this.i amat vcf.today. did you ever get the cable

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018, 6:17 PM systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> It looks like there's probably enough interest for me to pick up a spool of
> the stuff. I haven't heard back from the eBay guy, but if nothing else my
> local supplier is a known quantity. I'll start looking into costs for N
> connectors, terminator availability, etc.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 7:06 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk
> >  wrote:
> > > Full disclosure on price: right now if I buy one spool, it'll be
> > $0.60/foot
> > > to me, I was thinking I'd charge $1/foot for moderate lengths, of
> course
> > > I'm willing to make a deal on bulk purchases, especially if it ends up
> > > being local pick-up (here in VA or VCF East).
> > .
> > I plan to be at VCF East (although mid-May makes it more difficult to
> > block out for me than usual).  I'd be up for a number of feet - enough
> > for maybe 3-5 stations?  I would want to know the cost of adding the N
> > connectors, but I'd probably take them installed.
> >
> > I currently have about 10-15 feet of the yellow with black stripes
> > variety, barely enough to demonstrate it.
> >
> > -ethan
> >
>

Re: MS11 M8110/M8120 controller card differences

[Bob Smith via cctalk]

Had to look it up, 8110 for MOS memory, and 8120 for bipolar memory is
what field guyde list says.
I think the there was some change from special select parts and a move
to schottky 74S series around the time of the 45/50 days.
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/field-guide.txt

but my memory could be wrong - 11 group did a bit of rebranding with
model numbers and parts change, 11/40 was faster than 11/35, but if
you changed a wire, they were the same.
bb

On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 8:49 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
> So I notice that M8120 controller card for the MS11 seems to share its etch
> with the earlier M8110 variant (the M8120 says "M8110" in the etch :-); so the
> differences must be component/configuration/ECO. Does anyone happen to know
> what the differences between the two are? Thanks!
>
>  Noel

OT: Vintage test and other equipment available

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

All –

 

    I did a rescue of some vintage HP equipment for VCFE and the 
donor had the following vintage test and other equipment left over in his 
storage unit (from his father, who had recently passed, an engineer for North 
American Bosch). It goes to the dumpster at the end of May. Location is Long 
Island (Farmingdale). If anyone is interested, please contact me off-list.

 

Thanks.

 

 

    *  HP 202C Low Frequency Oscillator

    *  HP 202A Low Frequency Function Generator

    *  HP 4000 Vacuum Tube Voltmeter

    *  Heathkit IG-62 color bar generator

    *  Megadata Multi-video Display (looks like 
on-screen video titler)

    *  Invac triple paper tape drive in a 6' rack

    *  Dumont 403 Oscilloscope

 

Rich

 

--

Rich Cini

http://www.classiccmp.org/cini

http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

 

Re: MS11 M8110/M8120 controller card differences

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Bob Smith

> 8110 for MOS memory, and 8120 for bipolar memory is what field guyde
> list says.

Well, the early bipolar MS11-C (1K boards) used the M8110 during early
production (see e.g. DEC-11-HMSAA-D-D, pg. 1-1), and apparently then switched
over to the M8120. I've only seen the later MS11-A bipolar (4K boards - dunno
why it's in reverse alpha order) associated with the M8120.

> I think the there was some change from special select parts and a move
> to schottky 74S series around the time of the 45/50 days.

I wondered that, but the MS11-C and MS11-A are the same speed (300 nsec);
although maybe the M8110 was a bit marginal, and component changes in the
M8120 made it more robust?

I guess I'll have to do it the hard way, and compare the ICs... :-(


> 11/40 was faster than 11/35, but if you changed a wire, they were the
> same.

I've heard of other manufacturers doing that, but I thought the /35 and /40
were identical, except for the number on the console inlay, and the sales
channel?

Noel

Re: HP 2100 prototyping card

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

I got it! Thanks Al, I had been looking for one of these for a while, but the 
few ones that were available were at ridiculous prices. I wanted it mostly so I 
can reverse engineer it and make more of them, and/or get some inspiration for 
an FPGA based I/O board.

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Al Kossow , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 4:51 PM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: HP 2100 prototyping card

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163039837440

 

obviously NOT used..

 

 

 

Re: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Happy Armed Forces Day 2018 Saturday, May 19 ... Do not forget our brave 
men and women!


On Sun, 20 May 2018, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

a) This is an international list
b) This topic has absolutely nothing to do with classic computing
c) I get a bit allergic about glorifyin arms and the like


d) The TRULY IMPORTANT issues will never be solved through the use of 
armed forces:

big-endian V little-endian
vi v emacs
DEC V IBM
CDC V IBM
TRS80 V Apple
Atari V Commodore
IBM V Apple
Android V IOS
Linux V Windoze V MacOS
number of buttons on a mouse

Re: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Todd Goodman via cctalk]

On 5/20/2018 3:48 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Happy Armed Forces Day 2018 Saturday, May 19 ... Do not forget our 
brave men and women!


On Sun, 20 May 2018, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

a) This is an international list
b) This topic has absolutely nothing to do with classic computing
c) I get a bit allergic about glorifyin arms and the like


d) The TRULY IMPORTANT issues will never be solved through the use of 
armed forces:

big-endian V little-endian
vi v emacs
DEC V IBM
CDC V IBM
TRS80 V Apple
Atari V Commodore
IBM V Apple
Android V IOS
Linux V Windoze V MacOS
number of buttons on a mouse


Use 'em all and let god sort it out?

RE: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Jay West via cctalk]

Fred wrote...
d) The TRULY IMPORTANT issues will never be solved through the use of armed
forces:
big-endian V little-endian
vi v emacs
DEC V IBM
CDC V IBM
TRS80 V Apple
Atari V Commodore
IBM V Apple
Android V IOS
Linux V Windoze V MacOS
number of buttons on a mouse


You left off top-posting, and reply-to-list.

J

Re: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On May 19, 2018, at 1:10 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Happy Armed Forces Day 2018 Saturday, May 19 ... Do not forget our brave men 
> and women! Ed# WWW,SMECC,orgKF7RWW

Thank you for taking the time to honor our Active Duty servicemen and 
servicewomen Ed.  

Next weekend, on the 28th, we honor those fallen in the line of service.  Which 
includes those who died fighting for the freedom of those in Europe.

Zane

RE: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West
> via cctalk
> Sent: 20 May 2018 21:02
> To: 'Fred Cisin' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts' 
> Subject: RE: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018
> 
> 
> Fred wrote...
> d) The TRULY IMPORTANT issues will never be solved through the use of
> armed
> forces:
> big-endian V little-endian
> vi v emacs
> DEC V IBM
> CDC V IBM
> TRS80 V Apple
> Atari V Commodore
> IBM V Apple
> Android V IOS
> Linux V Windoze V MacOS
> number of buttons on a mouse
> 
> 
> You left off top-posting, and reply-to-list.
> 
> J


>From some of the threads on this list and elsewhere I would have thought
that the use of armed forces would actually be a good way to resolve these
issues once and for all ;-)

Oh, and I would add tabs vs spaces to the list.

Regards

Rob

RE: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

d) The TRULY IMPORTANT issues will never be solved through the use of armed
forces:
big-endian V little-endian
vi v emacs
DEC V IBM
CDC V IBM
TRS80 V Apple
Atari V Commodore
IBM V Apple
Android V IOS
Linux V Windoze V MacOS
number of buttons on a mouse


On Sun, 20 May 2018, Jay West wrote:

You left off top-posting, and reply-to-list.


I left those off, because I thought that we HAD solved those.
(only locally to this list, and with a few pockets of resistance)


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

PING JAY sent you a really weird DG system pic yesterday may be in ur bad msg folder check it out - ed#

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

PING JAY sent you a really weird DG system pic yesterday may be in ur bad msg 
folder check it out - ed#

Re: Happy Armed Forces Day 2018

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> d) The TRULY IMPORTANT issues will never be solved through the use of 
> armed forces:
> big-endian V little-endian

"You know, I used to be liberal, but now I'm *anti* busing!"
- The Planet That Went Ape

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- In Computer Science, we stand on each other's feet. -- Brian Reid --

Re: HP 2100 prototyping card

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

Marc  - Enjoy! I  have the one  (we  built  up  from blank ) we had a  stack  
and would  add our on buss and flag  chips and  parts)  with all the added  
voice synth  stuff..   I do not think I will be attempting to build  anything 
to add on to  an hp-1000 or a  2100 in the new  future.  Enjoy  it!   I  wish  
we had  saved some of the   left over  blank ones  we had  though  when I 
retired. you would  have been welcomed  to 9 of them.
 
In a message dated 5/20/2018 12:20:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
 
 I got it! Thanks Al, I had been looking for one of these for a while, but the 
few ones that were available were at ridiculous prices. I wanted it mostly so I 
can reverse engineer it and make more of them, and/or get some inspiration for 
an FPGA based I/O board.

Marc



From: cctalk  on behalf of 
"cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Reply-To: Al Kossow , "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 

Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 4:51 PM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: HP 2100 prototyping card



https://www.ebay.com/itm/163039837440



obviously NOT used..

I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

While  in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic  Data General 
...odd  computer 
 I do not remember buying it!   Ed#
 
 
"https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg";

take the quotes away and put in browser see photo
 
 
There are  2 only I find on net... correct me  if there are more please 
especially  if there are manual links... the only   one physically  is  one at  
chm that  is not as  wide. ( maybe no hard drive or less i/o options?)
Any other  sites  with info?  1981 and  multi  user  micro... cool! 
 
link to smyth retail site that   used these  
 
https://www.smythretail.com/our-team/smyth-history-a-tradition-in-automation/
 

link to photo only
 
"https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg";

take the quotes away and put in browser see photo

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sun, 20 May 2018, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:

While  in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic  Data General 
...odd  computer 
I do not remember buying it!   Ed#


Had you left related ones unsupervised?

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/20/2018 03:04 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
> While  in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic  Data General 
> ...odd  computer 
>  I do not remember buying it!   Ed#
>  
>  
> "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg";
> 
> take the quotes away and p

It might be a good idea to check with Bruce Ray (Wild Hare Computer
Systems).  He's a font of knowledge on all things DG.

--Chuck

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

many many  thanks  Chuck!  I have sent  him email  and a webmail  from his  
site.
 
again!  fantastic  thanks   for your  help!
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 5/20/2018 4:14:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
> While  in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic  Data General 
> ...odd  computer 
> I do not remember buying it!   Ed#
>  
>  
> "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg";
> 
> take the quotes away and p

It might be a good idea to check with Bruce Ray (Wild Hare Computer
Systems). He's a font of knowledge on all things DG.

--Chuck

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer

[Bruce Ray via cctalk]

G'day Ed -

That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a 
Data General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter 
announcing the DG/10's introduction.   The computer system was announced 
in 1983 in DG's effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer 
revolution" on Data General's proprietary systems' sales.  It was based 
on a 16-bit microEclipse processor contained in a small, modular, 
consumer-oriented (desktop) form factor that ran DG operating systems 
and software.  However, one version also contained an Intel 8086 
co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS software, thereby 
targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market.  ;-)


The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together 
which simplified system configuration and expansion.  It was very 
reliable (except for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape 
operations were very slow due to its serial I/O data bus design.


The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and 
OEMs worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the 
traditional minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s.


And "yes", information does exist for these systems.  Do you have 
pictures of your system?



Bruce


-

Bruce Ray
Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc.
Boulder, Colorado USA
b...@wildharecomputers.com

...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org

On 5/20/2018 5:29 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:

  
  
In a message dated 5/20/2018 4:14:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:


  

While  in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic  Data General 
...odd  computer
I do not remember buying it!   Ed#
  
  
"https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg";

we also have a 19 inch blue,rack eliplise also... need the et head terminal

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

Bruce... we also have a 19 inch blue,rack eliplise also in smecc museum ... 
need the  et head terminal..  it has,a funny small portrait format tape 
divehalf inch but not fell size

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, May 20, 2018 Bruce Ray via cctalk  wrote:
G'day Ed -

That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a 
Data General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter 
announcing the DG/10's introduction. The computer system was announced 
in 1983 in DG's effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer 
revolution" on Data General's proprietary systems' sales. It was based 
on a 16-bit microEclipse processor contained in a small, modular, 
consumer-oriented (desktop) form factor that ran DG operating systems 
and software. However, one version also contained an Intel 8086 
co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS software, thereby 
targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market. ;-)

The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together 
which simplified system configuration and expansion. It was very 
reliable (except for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape 
operations were very slow due to its serial I/O data bus design.

The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and 
OEMs worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the 
traditional minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s.

And "yes", information does exist for these systems. Do you have 
pictures of your system?


Bruce


-

Bruce Ray
Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc.
Boulder, Colorado USA
b...@wildharecomputers.com

...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org

On 5/20/2018 5:29 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:

> 
> 
> In a message dated 5/20/2018 4:14:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
> 
> 
>> While  in the warehouse I ran across this strange modernistic  Data General 
>> ...odd  computer
>> I do not remember buying it!   Ed#
>> 
>> 
>> "https://www.smythretail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DG10_1-300x227.jpg";
>>

Re: I ran across this strange modernistic Data General ...odd computer

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On May 20, 2018, at 5:16 PM, Bruce Ray via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> G'day Ed -
> 
> That picture was taken from our web site - specifically a photo of a Data 
> General Desktop Generation Model 10 beside a (1983) newsletter announcing the 
> DG/10's introduction.   The computer system was announced in 1983 in DG's 
> effort to blunt the effect of the "microcomputer revolution" on Data 
> General's proprietary systems' sales.  It was based on a 16-bit microEclipse 
> processor contained in a small, modular, consumer-oriented (desktop) form 
> factor that ran DG operating systems and software.  However, one version also 
> contained an Intel 8086 co-processor that could run newfangled MS-DOS 
> software, thereby targeting the pesky, soon-to-die microcomputer market.  ;-)
> 
> The system was designed around modules that could be plugged together which 
> simplified system configuration and expansion.  It was very reliable (except 
> for some of the OEM disk drives used) but disk and tape operations were very 
> slow due to its serial I/O data bus design.
> 
> The Desktop Generation series was very popular with many DG users and OEMs 
> worldwide but was overshadowed by the factors that affected the traditional 
> minicomputer manufacturers in the mid-1980s.
> 
> And "yes", information does exist for these systems.  Do you have pictures of 
> your system?
> 
> 
> Bruce

It sounds like a fascinating hardware design, and pretty much one I’ve long 
dreamed of.  It’s interesting to know that DG made such a system.  Are any 
manuals for it online?

Zane

Original CAD code in the wild?

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

For a while I have collected bits of legacy CAD, most recently Martin Hepperle 
sent me what I believe is the last version of Hank Christianson's MOVIE.BYU, a 
FORTRAN based 3D modeling and animation system.

I also have experimented with the original Berkley SPICE, also written in 
FORTRAN.


This weekend, I am reading "the Engineering Design Revolution", a 650 page 
history of the CAD industry by David Weisberg, who was there and worked for 
many of the companies in the beginning of the industry, I highly recommend this 
for anyone interested in CAD:


www.cadhistory.net

The Engineering Design Revolution
www.cadhistory.net
The Engineering Design Revolution. The People, Companies and Computer Systems 
That Changed Forever the Practice of Engineering. By. David E. Weisberg



My question is, did any of the source code for these systems, Applicon, 
Auto-Trol, Calma, ComputerVision, thousands of lines of primarily FORTRAN ever 
make it out, where we could read and study this original body of mathematical 
geometry done on computers?


I know we are primarily a hardware group here, but where is the interest in the 
software discussed?


Randy

Re: Original CAD code in the wild?

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

prolly hiding in closets of architecutre offices enineerin frims


On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 9:31 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> For a while I have collected bits of legacy CAD, most recently Martin
> Hepperle sent me what I believe is the last version of Hank Christianson's
> MOVIE.BYU, a FORTRAN based 3D modeling and animation system.
>
> I also have experimented with the original Berkley SPICE, also written in
> FORTRAN.
>
>
> This weekend, I am reading "the Engineering Design Revolution", a 650 page
> history of the CAD industry by David Weisberg, who was there and worked for
> many of the companies in the beginning of the industry, I highly recommend
> this for anyone interested in CAD:
>
>
> www.cadhistory.net
>
> The Engineering Design Revolution
> www.cadhistory.net
> The Engineering Design Revolution. The People, Companies and Computer
> Systems That Changed Forever the Practice of Engineering. By. David E.
> Weisberg
>
>
>
> My question is, did any of the source code for these systems, Applicon,
> Auto-Trol, Calma, ComputerVision, thousands of lines of primarily FORTRAN
> ever make it out, where we could read and study this original body of
> mathematical geometry done on computers?
>
>
> I know we are primarily a hardware group here, but where is the interest
> in the software discussed?
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>

aox double time 16 - Any info?

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

Greetings!

A friend of mine got a aox double time 16 board into a mac SE

Unfortunately it isn't working (not accelerating the mac) and we're unable
to find any info on it

Any helpers? :o)

thanks
Alexandre