Advanced Computer Communications UPB-HSIO

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

Does anyone know anything about these or have any interest in any?

Thanks, Paul

Re: SCO Skunkware?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 07/25/2018 07:53 PM, David Griffith via cctalk wrote:

Does anyone have any Skunkware ISOs from around 1995 to 1998?


I have a Skunkware CD-ROM from SCO OpenServer 5.0.6.  I don't know what 
date that's from.


Email me if you need a copy of it.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Fwd: Looking for an HP16702A or B logic analyser mainframe

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

Dear friends,

I'm trying to find a nice and stuffed 16702A or B to buy, shipped to Brazil
or NV, USA. B preffered but I can use the A.

I'd rather have it already stuffed (a pair of LA cards, oscilloscope and
who know, pattern generator)

Anyone willing to part with one? I can do paypal

Thanks,
Alexandre

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 04:07 PM, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
> Ahhh yes, I remember the Votrax, SC-01.
> There was an other chip that you programmed with phonemes,
> the SP0256-AL1 (IIRC). I must have it somewhere, forgot the manufacturer.
>
>

I have them here somewhere, too.  Got them at Radio Shack
back when they still catered to experimenters.

bill

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

I came across Votrax at University of Illinois, where they attached Votrax 
boxes with that chip in it to the PLATO terminals.  You could write programs 
("lessons") that would talk to you, and the software would generate the correct 
data stream.  It couldn't handle straight English because of the spelling 
complications, but there was a semi-phonetic English notation that would work.  
It did handle German, Esperanto, Spanish, and IPA.  For a test case, someone 
fed it the German sentence "Auf den Autobahnen gibt es keine 
Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzungen" and it handled that fine.  :-)

paul

> On Jul 26, 2018, at 4:07 PM, Henk Gooijen  wrote:
> 
> Ahhh yes, I remember the Votrax, SC-01.
> There was an other chip that you programmed with phonemes,
> the SP0256-AL1 (IIRC). I must have it somewhere, forgot the manufacturer.
>  
>  
> Van: cctalk  namens Paul Koning via cctalk 
> 
> Verzonden: Thursday, July 26, 2018 7:48:36 PM
> Aan: Anders Nelson; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Onderwerp: Re: Epson DECTalk IC
>  
> If you want even older technology (that actually worked rather well) there's 
> Votrax, which apparently is still available occasionally.
> 
> paul
> 
> 
> > On Jul 26, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > It takes 9600 (8N1) serial input, and I found a forum thread:
> > 
> > http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-34754.html
> > 
> > "The DECTalk was a speech synthesizer (actually there were a few models).
> > The DTC01 and 03 can do text to speech when fed ascii text over RS232."

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

The SP0256A-AL2 was made by General Instrument which morphed into Microchip
Technology . There is a companion CTS256A-AL2
that holds a text-to-phoneme assembler in it, I've had the pair for 10
years but haven't hooked them up yet.

=]
--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com


On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 4:29 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> > Gunshannon via cctalk
> > Sent: 26 July 2018 21:04
> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Re: Epson DECTalk IC
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/26/2018 03:31 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
> > > Here is what hurts.  I found one, 20+ years ago, in a Goodwill of all
> > > places, and passed on it.  After all, why would I ever want it.  I’ve
> > > wanted one for most of the last 20 years. :-)
> > >
> > > Zane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Jul 26, 2018, at 11:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I'd love to find a real DTC01, I remember encountering one in 1985.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > I still have one.  Sadly, over time, the EPROMS faded away and I never
> had
> > the chance to remake them.  At this point I am not sure I still have
> copies of
> > the images.
> >
>
>
> Someone on this list must have images surely?
>
> Regards
>
> Rob
>
>

RE: Epson DECTalk IC

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Gunshannon via cctalk
> Sent: 26 July 2018 21:04
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Epson DECTalk IC
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/26/2018 03:31 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
> > Here is what hurts.  I found one, 20+ years ago, in a Goodwill of all
> > places, and passed on it.  After all, why would I ever want it.  I’ve
> > wanted one for most of the last 20 years. :-)
> >
> > Zane
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jul 26, 2018, at 11:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk 
> >> 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd love to find a real DTC01, I remember encountering one in 1985.
> >>
> >>
> 
> I still have one.  Sadly, over time, the EPROMS faded away and I never had
> the chance to remake them.  At this point I am not sure I still have copies of
> the images.
> 


Someone on this list must have images surely?

Regards

Rob

Re: ABLE, other non DEC boards.

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 4:36 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk
 wrote:
> I had a nice talk with an old friend earlier today, and we talked about how
> some companies were so proud of their products that they never put their
> name on it. Sometimes a logo, sometimes only a part number.

We put our name and phone number (1-800-SRC-DATA) on all our boards at
Software Results.

> While looking for the ABLE (ACT) board... I came across:

> Simpact Assoc inc ICP-1600

I have one of those.  They were our main competitor.  Finding the
software would be a challenge these days, but it's only good for
bisync comms from a VAX (and who does that anymore?)

-ethan

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

I've got a serial port DECTalk Express. Works great except for the battery
pack. No, you can't have it.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Vote anarchist! 

RE: Epson DECTalk IC

[Henk Gooijen via cctalk]

Ahhh yes, I remember the Votrax, SC-01.
There was an other chip that you programmed with phonemes,
the SP0256-AL1 (IIRC). I must have it somewhere, forgot the manufacturer.






Van: cctalk  namens Paul Koning via cctalk 

Verzonden: Thursday, July 26, 2018 7:48:36 PM
Aan: Anders Nelson; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: Epson DECTalk IC

If you want even older technology (that actually worked rather well) there's 
Votrax, which apparently is still available occasionally.

paul


> On Jul 26, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk  
> wrote:
>
> It takes 9600 (8N1) serial input, and I found a forum thread:
>
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-34754.html
>
> "The DECTalk was a speech synthesizer (actually there were a few models).
> The DTC01 and 03 can do text to speech when fed ascii text over RS232."

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 03:31 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
> Here is what hurts.  I found one, 20+ years ago, in a Goodwill of all places, 
> and passed on it.  After all, why would I ever want it.  I’ve wanted one for 
> most of the last 20 years. :-)
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>> On Jul 26, 2018, at 11:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'd love to find a real DTC01, I remember encountering one in 1985.
>>
>>

I still have one.  Sadly, over time, the EPROMS faded away and I never
had the chance to remake them.  At this point I am not sure I still have
copies of the images.

bill

RE: Epson DECTalk IC

[Henk Gooijen via cctalk]

I have the DCT01, and I can say that the DTC01 sounds better than

the .wav file example on the Adafruit website.

Fun to hear the DTC01 ramble along when connected to a VT220

and push the PrintScreen button (IIRC). Works nicely.



AFAIK, in Stephen Hawking’s wheelchair was a DTC01, and it was

thát unit that you heard for Stephen’s speaking.






Van: cctalk  namens Rob Jarratt via cctalk 

Verzonden: Thursday, July 26, 2018 8:57:27 PM
Aan: 'Anders Nelson'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Onderwerp: RE: Epson DECTalk IC

I'd love to find a real DTC01, I remember encountering one in 1985.

Regards

Rob

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Anders
> Nelson via cctalk
> Sent: 26 July 2018 13:23
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Epson DECTalk IC
>
> For those wanting some DECTalk in their lives without the bulk:
>
> https://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/products/speech/
> tts_index.html
>
> There's even a ready to go board here:
>
> https://www.adafruit.com/product/924
>
> =]
>
> --
> --
> Anders Nelson
> +1 (517) 775-6129
> www.erogear.com

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

Here is what hurts.  I found one, 20+ years ago, in a Goodwill of all places, 
and passed on it.  After all, why would I ever want it.  I’ve wanted one for 
most of the last 20 years. :-)

Zane



> On Jul 26, 2018, at 11:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I'd love to find a real DTC01, I remember encountering one in 1985.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Anders
>> Nelson via cctalk
>> Sent: 26 July 2018 13:23
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> 
>> Subject: Epson DECTalk IC
>> 
>> For those wanting some DECTalk in their lives without the bulk:
>> 
>> https://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/products/speech/
>> tts_index.html
>> 
>> There's even a ready to go board here:
>> 
>> https://www.adafruit.com/product/924
>> 
>> =]
>> 
>> --
>> --
>> Anders Nelson
>> +1 (517) 775-6129
>> www.erogear.com
> 

Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Ethan Dicks

> I just saw that this specific part had a min order.

They have a min $10 order on _every_ part, and also a min of $25 on the total
order.

Noel

Re: 400Hz supplies; was: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 11:51 AM, Ed Sharpe wrote:
> 
> smecc has  stashed a  huge  mother gen  set115  60cy  in  115
> 400 cy  out. was used to  runrca avq  10  raradr we  have
> but  could  run many   many things... it is  huge,,, these things
> exist out there  if you need one,...

400Hz power was also used in aviation gear.  I remember having a stock
of small surplus 400Hz transformers salvaged from various bits of
equipment purchased on Chicago's "Surplus Row".

Transformers are much smaller than their 50/60 Hz cousins.

On the other hand, when I worked in a steel mill, much of the power
distribution was 25Hz.  Transformers were much larger.  At some point,
one of the mills converted their lighting from incandescent to
mercury-vapor running from that 25Hz supply.  I'm surprised that nobody
experienced seizures from the flicker.

--Chuck

Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
>  > From: Ethan Dicks
>
>  > Min order 14 @ $0.75 each.
>
> Uh, no. I think they have a $25 minimum at checkout; try it.

Ah, you meant min order total.  I just saw that this specific part had
a min order.

Yeah... lots of places have a min online order amount which makes it
infeasible to buy a handful of parts.

-ethan

RE: Epson DECTalk IC

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

I'd love to find a real DTC01, I remember encountering one in 1985.

Regards

Rob

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Anders
> Nelson via cctalk
> Sent: 26 July 2018 13:23
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Epson DECTalk IC
> 
> For those wanting some DECTalk in their lives without the bulk:
> 
> https://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/products/speech/
> tts_index.html
> 
> There's even a ready to go board here:
> 
> https://www.adafruit.com/product/924
> 
> =]
> 
> --
> --
> Anders Nelson
> +1 (517) 775-6129
> www.erogear.com

Re: 400Hz supplies; was: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

smecc has  stashed a  huge  mother gen  set    115  60cy  in  115 400 cy  out.
was used to  run    rca avq  10  raradr we  have but  could  run many   
many things... it is  huge,,, these things exist out there  if  you need 
one,
 
Ed#  www.smecc.org 
In a message dated 7/26/2018 9:36:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk

 wrote:
> On 07/26/2018 08:26 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
>
>> I believe if you want to be pedantic that a motor-generator set is a motor
>> (with an armature/rotor and a field/stator) mechanically coupled to a
>> generator (with its own armature/rotor and field/stator) whereas a
>> dynamotor has a common field/stator (and possibly both armature
>> windings have to be wound on the same core).
>
> Hence my term "unitized", which I thought to give the basic idea without
> going into excessive detail on an obsolete device.

This is classiccmp. We 'do' obsolete devices here :-)

>
> In connection with similar low-power high-voltage supplies, I could also
> have mentioned vibrator-transformer supplies, run from DC battery, used
> very often in lower-power tube gear, such as auto radios and even photo
> strobe flash.

Indeed. I've never seen a photoflash using such a supply, but I have read
about them. One day I'll add one to my collection.

They were commonly used in car radios over here too.


>
> The high-voltage DC was obtained from the transformer secondary by
> either a traditional tube (very often cold cathode gas) rectifier, later

0Z4 IiIRC wa a common rectifier valve.

> solid-state (selenium or silicon) or an additional set of contacts on
> the vibrator itself. Notorious for kicking up all sorts of RF noise.

The latter was known as a 'synchronous vibrator' (at least over here)
as the 2 sets of contacts were synchronised to (a) apply a pulse to one
end of the primary winding and (b) select the appropriate end of
the secondary which will have an high voltage pulse of the correct
polarity.

A mad friend of mine commented that a google search for a spare
part for his car radio directed him to an awful lot of 'adult' sites...

-tony

Re: 400Hz supplies; was: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

Chuck...     horrible  flashback of  using this  strobe  unit in my  younger  
days as a photographer.  Still  was nicer than a  pocket  full of  flashbulbs  
being  set off in a  suit  pocket  from  carpet static   electricity...


We  actually  still have  of of these units in the  photographic  collection...
 
 
Ed#   www.smecc.org 
 
In a message dated 7/26/2018 10:34:57 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
Either was vastly more compact than the Graflex

stroboflash-2x225V batteries in a very heavy supply.

--Chuck

Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 6:53 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
 wrote:
> > From: Fritz Mueller
>
> > If these are what you are talking about, I ordered up a bunch a couple
> > years ago when I rebuilt the power harness for my 11/45, and can attest
> > they are the right thing:
>
> Yeah, those are the ones.
>
> Note that ConnectorPeople has a relatively large minimum order.

Min order 14 @ $0.75 each.  Sounds cheap to me.  Get 14.

-ethan

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

If you want even older technology (that actually worked rather well) there's 
Votrax, which apparently is still available occasionally.

paul


> On Jul 26, 2018, at 1:38 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> It takes 9600 (8N1) serial input, and I found a forum thread:
> 
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-34754.html
> 
> "The DECTalk was a speech synthesizer (actually there were a few models).
> The DTC01 and 03 can do text to speech when fed ascii text over RS232."

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

It takes 9600 (8N1) serial input, and I found a forum thread:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-34754.html

"The DECTalk was a speech synthesizer (actually there were a few models).
The DTC01 and 03 can do text to speech when fed ascii text over RS232."

Of course you could bypass the MCU on the Adafruit board and feed it with
data however you like, from a VAX bus or other means I don't understand.

=]
--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com


On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 1:12 PM Zane Healy  wrote:

> That’s pretty cool, and looks like it would work well for a Darkroom
> automation project I have in mind.
>
> From the DECTalk side of things.  Could this take the place of DECTalk
> hardware in a VAX/VMS environment?
>
> Zane
>
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 2018, at 5:23 AM, Anders Nelson via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > For those wanting some DECTalk in their lives without the bulk:
> >
> >
> https://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/products/speech/tts_index.html
> >
> > There's even a ready to go board here:
> >
> > https://www.adafruit.com/product/924
> >
> > =]
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Anders Nelson
> > +1 (517) 775-6129
> > www.erogear.com
>
>

Re: 400Hz supplies; was: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 09:35 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk

> Indeed. I've never seen a photoflash using such a supply, but I have read
> about them. One day I'll add one to my collection.

I recall fooling with a 60s era Dormeyer model.  Not only did it use a
vibrator supply, but also a rechargeable stainless-steel enclosed
battery.  A very compact unit in comparison to those units using the
510V primary battery.  Either was vastly more compact than the Graflex
stroboflash-2x225V batteries in a very heavy supply.

--Chuck

Re: Epson DECTalk IC

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

That’s pretty cool, and looks like it would work well for a Darkroom automation 
project I have in mind.

From the DECTalk side of things.  Could this take the place of DECTalk hardware 
in a VAX/VMS environment?

Zane



> On Jul 26, 2018, at 5:23 AM, Anders Nelson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> For those wanting some DECTalk in their lives without the bulk:
> 
> https://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/products/speech/tts_index.html
> 
> There's even a ready to go board here:
> 
> https://www.adafruit.com/product/924
> 
> =]
> 
> -- 
> --
> Anders Nelson
> +1 (517) 775-6129
> www.erogear.com

Re: 400Hz supplies; was: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 5:28 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:
> On 07/26/2018 08:26 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
>
>> I believe if you want to be pedantic that a motor-generator set is a motor
>> (with an armature/rotor and a field/stator) mechanically coupled to a
>> generator (with its own armature/rotor and field/stator) whereas a
>> dynamotor has a common field/stator (and possibly both armature
>> windings have to be wound on the same core).
>
> Hence my term "unitized", which I thought to give the basic idea without
> going into excessive detail on an obsolete device.

This is classiccmp. We 'do' obsolete devices here :-)

>
> In connection with similar low-power high-voltage supplies, I could also
> have mentioned vibrator-transformer supplies, run from DC battery, used
> very often in lower-power tube gear, such as auto radios and even photo
> strobe flash.

Indeed. I've never seen a photoflash using such a supply, but I have read
about them. One day I'll add one to my collection.

They were commonly used in car radios over here too.


>
> The high-voltage DC was obtained from the transformer secondary by
> either a traditional tube (very often cold cathode gas) rectifier, later

0Z4 IiIRC wa a common rectifier valve.

> solid-state (selenium or silicon) or an additional set of contacts on
> the vibrator itself.  Notorious for kicking up all sorts of RF noise.

The latter was known as a 'synchronous vibrator' (at least over here)
as the 2 sets of contacts were synchronised to (a) apply a pulse to one
end of the primary winding and (b) select the appropriate end of
the secondary which will have an high voltage pulse of the correct
polarity.

A mad friend of mine commented that a google search for a spare
part for his car radio directed him to an awful lot of 'adult' sites...

-tony

Re: 400Hz supplies; was: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 08:26 AM, Tony Duell wrote:

> I believe if you want to be pedantic that a motor-generator set is a motor
> (with an armature/rotor and a field/stator) mechanically coupled to a
> generator (with its own armature/rotor and field/stator) whereas a
> dynamotor has a common field/stator (and possibly both armature
> windings have to be wound on the same core).

Hence my term "unitized", which I thought to give the basic idea without
going into excessive detail on an obsolete device.

In connection with similar low-power high-voltage supplies, I could also
have mentioned vibrator-transformer supplies, run from DC battery, used
very often in lower-power tube gear, such as auto radios and even photo
strobe flash.

The high-voltage DC was obtained from the transformer secondary by
either a traditional tube (very often cold cathode gas) rectifier, later
solid-state (selenium or silicon) or an additional set of contacts on
the vibrator itself.  Notorious for kicking up all sorts of RF noise.

But this is way off-topic.

--Chuck

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jul 26, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
>  wrote:
> 
>> Such MG setups were very common in industry before modern
>> semiconductors.  When I had a summer job showing movies at a drive-in
>> theater (a long time ago), the supply for the carbon-arc lamps was a
>> 40hp motor powered by 3-phase 60Hz, driving a DC generator.  In WWII
>> radio equipment, MGs in a unitzed form called "dynamotors" were used to
>> supply the high-voltage anode voltage for the tubes.  Electroplating
>> shops similarly used large DC generator setups to supply plating current.
> 
> I believe if you want to be pedantic that a motor-generator set is a motor
> (with an armature/rotor and a field/stator) mechanically coupled to a
> generator (with its own armature/rotor and field/stator) whereas a
> dynamotor has a common field/stator (and possibly both armature
> windings have to be wound on the same core).

Yes, so Wikipedia is wrong to describe a dynamotor as a motor-generator and 
show it in the m-g article rather than the rotary transformer article.

I remember the dynamotors shown in that photo, my father had that exact unit 
and several other "Command Set" radios.  The dynamotors clearly had a single 
armature, with input brushes at one side and output brushes at the other.

paul

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jul 26, 2018, at 10:54 AM, Anders Nelson  wrote:
> 
> To get that power, did they have to use a rotary convertor from 60Hz 3-phase 
> to get 400Hz?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_converter

No, a motor-generator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor–generator.  Same 
purpose, but constructed as a motor attached to a generator, rather than the 
two merged into a single armature.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/cyber/cyber_70/fieldEngr/60142400B_6000_Series_Site_Prep_Sep65.pdf
 shows the ones CDC used, starting on page 27.

paul

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 10:26 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:


Such MG setups were very common in industry before modern
semiconductors.  When I had a summer job showing movies at a drive-in
theater (a long time ago), the supply for the carbon-arc lamps was a
40hp motor powered by 3-phase 60Hz, driving a DC generator.  In WWII
radio equipment, MGs in a unitzed form called "dynamotors" were used to
supply the high-voltage anode voltage for the tubes.  Electroplating
shops similarly used large DC generator setups to supply plating current.

I believe if you want to be pedantic that a motor-generator set is a motor
(with an armature/rotor and a field/stator) mechanically coupled to a
generator (with its own armature/rotor and field/stator) whereas a
dynamotor has a common field/stator (and possibly both armature
windings have to be wound on the same core).

Yes, a dynamotor has ONE armature with a commutator on each 
end. There is one set of field poles for the whole unit, 
too.  The low-voltage input and high-voltage output windings 
are laid in the same slots in the armature.


Jon

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 09:54 AM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

To get that power, did they have to use a rotary convertor from 60Hz
3-phase to get 400Hz?


IBM mainframes in the late 1950's early 1960's (707x and 
709x series) used motor generators to generate 400 Hz 
3-phase power, which was distributed to all the major 
components.


For the 360, they came up with a solid state version, it ran 
the CPU, memory and such on 2500 Hz single-phase power, 
using a "converter-inverter".  It rectified and filtered the 
3-phase 50- or 60-Hz input to DC, and then used ultra-fast 
SCRs to invert it.  But, the energy stored in the filter 
caps in that was way smaller than the rotational energy in a 
motor generator set.  So, the 360 was susceptible to power 
glitches and dips.  For the 370, they went back to a 
motor-generator set actually INSIDE the CPU cabinet to 
produce 415 Hz 3-phase power.  Larger systems often had a 
UPS with electronic inverters in them.


Jon

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:

> Such MG setups were very common in industry before modern
> semiconductors.  When I had a summer job showing movies at a drive-in
> theater (a long time ago), the supply for the carbon-arc lamps was a
> 40hp motor powered by 3-phase 60Hz, driving a DC generator.  In WWII
> radio equipment, MGs in a unitzed form called "dynamotors" were used to
> supply the high-voltage anode voltage for the tubes.  Electroplating
> shops similarly used large DC generator setups to supply plating current.

I believe if you want to be pedantic that a motor-generator set is a motor
(with an armature/rotor and a field/stator) mechanically coupled to a
generator (with its own armature/rotor and field/stator) whereas a
dynamotor has a common field/stator (and possibly both armature
windings have to be wound on the same core).

-tony

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Best mailing list ever. Thanks for the detail!

=]
--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com


On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:14 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 07/26/2018 07:54 AM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> > To get that power, did they have to use a rotary convertor from 60Hz
> > 3-phase to get 400Hz?
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_converter
>
> As Paul mentioned, less a "rotary converter" than a AC motor-AC
> generator hookup.  One advantage is that the rotational inertia in such
> a setup does have the ability to smooth over small power disruptions.
>
> Such MG setups were very common in industry before modern
> semiconductors.  When I had a summer job showing movies at a drive-in
> theater (a long time ago), the supply for the carbon-arc lamps was a
> 40hp motor powered by 3-phase 60Hz, driving a DC generator.  In WWII
> radio equipment, MGs in a unitzed form called "dynamotors" were used to
> supply the high-voltage anode voltage for the tubes.  Electroplating
> shops similarly used large DC generator setups to supply plating current.
>
> 3 phase full-wave rectified AC has approximately 87% DC content at 6x
> the supply frequency.  So for 400Hz, the ripple is only 13 percent at
> 2400 Hz before filtering.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 07/26/2018 07:54 AM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> To get that power, did they have to use a rotary convertor from 60Hz
> 3-phase to get 400Hz?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_converter

As Paul mentioned, less a "rotary converter" than a AC motor-AC
generator hookup.  One advantage is that the rotational inertia in such
a setup does have the ability to smooth over small power disruptions.

Such MG setups were very common in industry before modern
semiconductors.  When I had a summer job showing movies at a drive-in
theater (a long time ago), the supply for the carbon-arc lamps was a
40hp motor powered by 3-phase 60Hz, driving a DC generator.  In WWII
radio equipment, MGs in a unitzed form called "dynamotors" were used to
supply the high-voltage anode voltage for the tubes.  Electroplating
shops similarly used large DC generator setups to supply plating current.

3 phase full-wave rectified AC has approximately 87% DC content at 6x
the supply frequency.  So for 400Hz, the ripple is only 13 percent at
2400 Hz before filtering.

--Chuck

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

To get that power, did they have to use a rotary convertor from 60Hz
3-phase to get 400Hz?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_converter

=]
--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com


On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 10:49 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Jul 26, 2018, at 9:55 AM, W2HX via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > That is not the whole story of 400Hz. The other part of that story is
> that now, all of the downstream equipment that uses the 400 Hz can have
> much simpler AC to DC power supplies in them. At 400 Hz it is much easier
> to regulate and filter out ripple. So instead of every piece of equipment
> each having lots of large capacitors, now they only need small capacitors.
> Space is at a premium as well as weight on a plane.
>
> This even applies to some terrestrial equipment.  CDC used 400 Hz 3-phase
> power for the 6000 series mainframes.  3-phase power cuts the ripple by a
> large fraction and raises the ripple frequency 3x; 400 Hz instead of 60 or
> 50 raises the ripple frequency further by that ratio.  So high power
> supplies get much smaller, both in the transformers and in the filter
> capacitors.
>
> The 400 Hz came from motor-generators.  Those also clean up the power a
> lot, because any spikes or brief dips are absorbed by the mechanical
> intertia and don't appear on the output.
>
> paul
>
>
>

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jul 26, 2018, at 9:55 AM, W2HX via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> That is not the whole story of 400Hz. The other part of that story is that 
> now, all of the downstream equipment that uses the 400 Hz can have much 
> simpler AC to DC power supplies in them. At 400 Hz it is much easier to 
> regulate and filter out ripple. So instead of every piece of equipment each 
> having lots of large capacitors, now they only need small capacitors. Space 
> is at a premium as well as weight on a plane. 

This even applies to some terrestrial equipment.  CDC used 400 Hz 3-phase power 
for the 6000 series mainframes.  3-phase power cuts the ripple by a large 
fraction and raises the ripple frequency 3x; 400 Hz instead of 60 or 50 raises 
the ripple frequency further by that ratio.  So high power supplies get much 
smaller, both in the transformers and in the filter capacitors.

The 400 Hz came from motor-generators.  Those also clean up the power a lot, 
because any spikes or brief dips are absorbed by the mechanical intertia and 
don't appear on the output.

paul

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[W2HX via cctalk]

That is not the whole story of 400Hz. The other part of that story is that now, 
all of the downstream equipment that uses the 400 Hz can have much simpler AC 
to DC power supplies in them. At 400 Hz it is much easier to regulate and 
filter out ripple. So instead of every piece of equipment each having lots of 
large capacitors, now they only need small capacitors. Space is at a premium as 
well as weight on a plane. 

From: cctalk  on behalf of Anders Nelson via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 8:26 AM
To: Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; 
carlos_muri...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

Omg finally I know why airplanes use 400Hz, thank you! Honestly that's been
on my mind for years.

=]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 2:06 PM Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >>> On Jul 25, 2018, at 9:50 AM, GerardCJAT via cctech <
> >> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>> Why don't you simply power it through an inverter that will output 60
> >> Hz, eventually even "down to" 120 V , true sine wave, of course ??? They
> >> are not that expensive by now.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't worry about "true sine wave".  That seems more of a marketing
> >> thing anyway, and motors don't care.  Just feed them with a variable
> >> frequency motor drive and all should be well.
> >>
> >>> And be carefull : motor designed for 60 Hz, running "under" 50 Hz, OR
> >> THE OPPOSITE, I do not recall  !!!, display a significant reduced life
> time.
> >>> I have to check which is which, but I know this is a question of
> >> saturated magnetic field. Better check first.
> >>
> >> That doesn't sound right.  If you run the frequency up high enough you
> >> might get into problems with magnetic materials not designed for it.
> And
> >> much lower probably gives you reduced torque.  But 50 vs. 60 Hz is a
> >> trivial difference for a motor, I can't see any reasons for that to
> cause
> >> trouble.  I routinely run my lathe at half frequency if not less, and it
> >> doesn't complain.
> >>
> > I'm not sure about motors, but 60 Hz power transformers can't handle as
> > high a maximum power (or current) when used for 50 Hz. The maximum power
> > has to be derated. Some transformers are specified/sold with a single
> power
> > specification for both 50 and 60 Hz use, which just means that the vendor
> > has built the necessary derating into even the 60 Hz specification.
> >
> > Some products were built using different transformers for 50 vs 60 Hz
> > models, and the 60 Hz models uses a transformer inadequate for 50 Hz
> > operation.
> >
> It has to do with the physics of flux linkages and saturation. Under
> sinusoidal operation, voltage is proportional to the product of maximum
> flux and frequency.  If you fix the voltage, in order to operate at 5/6
> of the nominal frequency you need a flux that is  6/5 the nominal one.
> This might not seem like much more flux, but due to the nonlinear
> magnetization characteristics,  the required magnetization current will
> not be 6/5 times the nominal current, but it could in fact be three
> times higher or even more, and highly distorted.
>
> Under-frequency and over-voltage can kill power transformers easily.
>
> A transformer designed to operate at 50 Hz will therefore have much more
> iron mass in its core, power and voltage being equal.  That's why in
> airplanes power is distributed at 400Hz; the transformers will be much
> lighter.
>
> carlos.
>
>
> --
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Omg finally I know why airplanes use 400Hz, thank you! Honestly that's been
on my mind for years.

=]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 2:06 PM Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >>> On Jul 25, 2018, at 9:50 AM, GerardCJAT via cctech <
> >> cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>> Why don't you simply power it through an inverter that will output 60
> >> Hz, eventually even "down to" 120 V , true sine wave, of course ??? They
> >> are not that expensive by now.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't worry about "true sine wave".  That seems more of a marketing
> >> thing anyway, and motors don't care.  Just feed them with a variable
> >> frequency motor drive and all should be well.
> >>
> >>> And be carefull : motor designed for 60 Hz, running "under" 50 Hz, OR
> >> THE OPPOSITE, I do not recall  !!!, display a significant reduced life
> time.
> >>> I have to check which is which, but I know this is a question of
> >> saturated magnetic field. Better check first.
> >>
> >> That doesn't sound right.  If you run the frequency up high enough you
> >> might get into problems with magnetic materials not designed for it.
> And
> >> much lower probably gives you reduced torque.  But 50 vs. 60 Hz is a
> >> trivial difference for a motor, I can't see any reasons for that to
> cause
> >> trouble.  I routinely run my lathe at half frequency if not less, and it
> >> doesn't complain.
> >>
> > I'm not sure about motors, but 60 Hz power transformers can't handle as
> > high a maximum power (or current) when used for 50 Hz. The maximum power
> > has to be derated. Some transformers are specified/sold with a single
> power
> > specification for both 50 and 60 Hz use, which just means that the vendor
> > has built the necessary derating into even the 60 Hz specification.
> >
> > Some products were built using different transformers for 50 vs 60 Hz
> > models, and the 60 Hz models uses a transformer inadequate for 50 Hz
> > operation.
> >
> It has to do with the physics of flux linkages and saturation. Under
> sinusoidal operation, voltage is proportional to the product of maximum
> flux and frequency.  If you fix the voltage, in order to operate at 5/6
> of the nominal frequency you need a flux that is  6/5 the nominal one.
> This might not seem like much more flux, but due to the nonlinear
> magnetization characteristics,  the required magnetization current will
> not be 6/5 times the nominal current, but it could in fact be three
> times higher or even more, and highly distorted.
>
> Under-frequency and over-voltage can kill power transformers easily.
>
> A transformer designed to operate at 50 Hz will therefore have much more
> iron mass in its core, power and voltage being equal.  That's why in
> airplanes power is distributed at 400Hz; the transformers will be much
> lighter.
>
> carlos.
>
>
> --
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

Epson DECTalk IC

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

For those wanting some DECTalk in their lives without the bulk:

https://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/products/speech/tts_index.html

There's even a ready to go board here:

https://www.adafruit.com/product/924

=]

-- 
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Fritz Mueller

> If these are what you are talking about, I ordered up a bunch a couple
> years ago when I rebuilt the power harness for my 11/45, and can attest
> they are the right thing:

Yeah, those are the ones.

Note that ConnectorPeople has a relatively large minimum order. Quest has the
male connectors (i.e. female pins), but not the females.

Noel

Re: R: HP-2116 front panel lamps

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, it was written

I've buy these lamps from Oshino Lamps, the original supplier for a good
price. Minimun quantity 100 pcs


Speaking of Oshino Lamps, I had a phone call yesterday with their German 
branch after I had inquired them for a distributor; I saw the OL-345 on 
their web sites so I thought I'd just ask them.
Well, it was very "interesting". First question I was asked: How on earth 
did I undig this ld type. Well, it is on their web sites, I told them.
Huh, well, it may be listed there, but they don't have them as active in 
their system. The last time they sold the OL-345 was 15 years ago. They 
"could" ask Japan if they had some in stock, but for 100 pcs I could just 
forget that.

Another question: does it have to be the exact same type? And so on...
So my conclusion is that they don't have/produce/know of the old lamp 
types.


Christian

Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

2018-07-26 6:21 GMT+02:00 Paul Anderson via cctalk :

> I can't find my IPB, but the maintenance manual shows there were both 50
> and 60 hz  versions made.
>
> I think I've shipped them overseas, but never modified them. I did ship a
> lot of RX02 drives overseas, and to properly convert them the pulleys,
> belts, and wiring harness had to be swapped. We were always on the lookout
> for parts. I still have a few different wiring harnesses around here
> somewhere.
>
> BA11-K conversions were also common. I still have interesting stories and
> parts about them.
>
> What gets me with the RK05 is how you can swap pulleys without swapping
> belts. A few products had pulleys with two grooves, one for 50, the other
> for 60. But you still needed a different belt.
>

You need to move the motor to a new position in the RK05. The drive is
already prepared for all this. It is just the pulley, moving the motor and
the 220VAC jumper that is needed.

/Mattis


>
> Paul
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > > There are, however, DEC products other than the RK05 which had
> different
> > > transformers for 50 Hz and 60 Hz. For example, the H771 power supply
> used
> > > in the RX01 and RX02. There were three H771 models, The H771A for
> 90-132
> > > VAC 60 Hz, The H771C for 90-132 VAC 50 Hz, and the H771D for 180-264
> VAC
> > 50
> > > Hz. The H771A uses a transformer rated for 60 Hz. The H771C and H771D
> > both
> > > use the same 50 Hz rated transformer, with different wiring. The H771C
> > and
> > > H771D also require one of two different wiring harnesses to cover the
> > > entire mains voltage range, e.g., 90-120 VAC vs 100-132 VAC for the
> > H771C,
> > > or twice those voltages for the H771D.
> >
> > IIRC that's a ferroresonant transformer (with a capacitor to resonate one
> > of the
> > windings to a harmonic of the power line frequency), so it's not
> > surprising it has
> > to be changed for 50Hz or 60Hz input.
> >
> > -tony
> >
>

Re: Pair of Portmaster II's

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I don't know anything about the size, but I might be able to help  get one
from IL to SK.

Paul

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Jim MacKenzie via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> If shipping to Regina, SK wouldn't be objectionable, I'd take one of these
> off your hands.  I've wanted one for awhile.
>
> Jim
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Diane
> Bruce
> via cctalk
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 1:57 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Pair of Portmaster II's
>
> I have two Livingston PM-11's (http://portmasters.com/faq.html) and I
> haven't needed either of these in a long time. Is anyone interested in
> them?
>
> Diane
> --
> - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
>
>