Re: What is this?
I might acutally be IBM made. The "1P1288" part number fits the numbering scheme they used. I've seen one of these before, but I don't remember where, or what it was for... I'm curious as to what it actually is myself now though... From: Donald via cctalk Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2018 18:48 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: What is this? Don't think it is IBM. Apparently high temp ICs due to the heat sink housing. No idea what it is. http://www.myimagecollection/part
Text encoding Babel. Was Re: George Keremedjiev
At 10:33 PM 21/11/2018 -0500, ED SHARPE wrote: >if I type an extra space I am sure every one sees it. but the chars not >everyone sees them. >what I do figure us the older email programs are not accepting of all charter >sets? ( dunno if I am using the right term) > >Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Ah ha! Mystery explained. I'm another who sees funny characters where Ed's mails contain "c2 a0". This is the UTF-8 encoding of a 'no-break space' character, which is NOT in the original ASCII set. See https://apps.timwhitlock.info/unicode/inspect/hex/c2/a0 I see them because I'm using an old email client - Eudora 3 (1997.) I stick with this specifically _because_ it doesn't understand UTF-8 or any other non-ASCII coding, especially in the header, and hence simply ignores any executables in the headers or email body. Which makes it totally virus proof, unlike Microsoft's intentionally open-backdoor junk like Outlook. And most other email 'modern wonders.' Eudora barely even understands html in emails, and I'm fine with that. Also I have it configured to dust-bin any incomimg mail containing UTF-8 chars in the Subject header. Avoids a lot of time-wasting. Anyway, I was wondering how Ed's emails (and sometimes others elsewhere) acquired that odd corruption. Answer: Ed's email util (AOL Mobile Mail, and probably various other 'content enhanced' email clients) interpret the user typing space twice in succession, as meaning "I really, really want there to be a space here, no matter what." So it inserts a 'no-break space' unicode character, which of course requires a 2-byte UTF-8 encoding. Then adds a plain ASCII space 0x20 just to be sure. Personally I find it more interesting than annoying. Just another example of the gradual chaotic devolution of ASCII, into a Babel of incompatible encodings. Not that ASCII was all that great in the first place. It's also interesting that even on cctalk, where you'd think everyone would be aware of the differences between ASCII and later 'extensions', low level coding schemes, and the desirability of sticking to common standards, some are not. Takeaway: Ed, one space is enough. I don't know how you got the idea people might miss seeing a single space, and so you need to type two or more. But it isn't so. The normal convention in plain text is one space character between each word. And since plain ASCII is hard-formatted, extra spaces are NOT ignored and make for wider spacing between words. Which looksvery odd, even if your mail utility didn't try to do something 'special' with your unusual user input. Btw, I changed the subject line, because this is a wider topic. I've been meaning to start a conversation about the original evolution of ASCII, and various extensions. Related to a side project of mine. But first, I'm having a problem with some portion of cctalk posts going missing, ie I don't receive all messages. The ratio seems to vary day to day. Sometimes no obvious missing, sometimes a lot. Still don't know why, or how to fix this. Any suggestions? Guy >On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 Fred Cisin wrote: >Ed, >It is YOUR mail program that is doing the extraneous insertions, and >then not showing them to you when you view your own messages. > >ALL of us see either extraneous characters, or extraneous spaces in >everything that you send! >I use PINE in a shell account, and they show up as a whole bunch of >inappropriate spaces. > >Seriously, YOUR mail program is inserting extraneous stuff. >Everybody? but you sees it. > >> who knows?  what mail program are you using that  does that? >It is YOUR mail program that is "doing that"!! > > >On Wed, 21 Nov 2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > >> who knows?  what mail program are you using that  does that? >> >> >> In a message dated 11/21/2018 1:25:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, >> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: >> >>  >> At 02:03 PM 11/21/2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >> >>> Ià soldà him myà extra classic 8à with the plexi covers on it... sn >>> 200à seriesà weà keptà sn #18 >> >> Side question: What process is turning non-blanking spaces into ISO-8859-1 >> circumflex-A for you? >> >> I see 'Ã' all throughout your emails. >> >> - John > >
What is this?
Don't think it is IBM. Apparently high temp ICs due to the heat sink housing. No idea what it is. http://www.myimagecollection/part
Re: George Keremedjiev
>Message: 10 >Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 16:17:27 -0500 >From: ED SHARPE >To: jfo...@threedee.com, cctalk@classiccmp.org, cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: George Keremedjiev >Message-ID: <16738228ce4-1ebf-2...@webjas-vad240.srv.aolmail.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >who? knows?? ?what? mail program? are? you using that? ?does that? > > >In a message dated 11/21/2018 1:25:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, >cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > >? >At 02:03 PM 11/21/2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > >>I? sold? him my? extra classic 8? with the plexi covers on it... sn 200? >>series? we? kept? sn #18 > >Side question: What process is turning non-blanking spaces into ISO-8859-1 >circumflex-A for you? > >I see '?' all throughout your emails. > >- John I get CCTalk in digest form and see the "?" in Ed's posts. Almost all (but strangely not all) of his posts are like that. I might occasionally see a strange extra character in someone else's post, but only rarely and then they usually are some non-English diacritical mark. BTW, we went through this about 6 months ago. Someone pointed out the strange characters in Ed's posts. No change resulted from that, however, and I doubt this thread will cause any change. Bob
Re: Missing FORRTL
On 11/22/2018 7:21 AM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: Yes, there is a SYS$SHARE:DEC$FORRTL.EXE in SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB], which was put there when the Fortran compiler was installed. I can compile, link and run ordinary Fortran programs. There should have been a SYS$SHARE:DEC$FORRTL.EXE present from when the operating system was installed but installing the FORTRAN compiler may have updated it. However, I forced the installation of CXML and tried to compile one of the examples and that failed - couldn't find INCLUDE 'CXMLDEF.FOR'. This is a missing source include file and is not related to the run time library. It is needed at compile time, not at run time. I suspect it is normally found in what VMS calls a text library file, probably matching SYS$SHARE:*DEF.TLB - include files used by the FORTRAN compiler are to be found in SYS$SHARE:FORSYSDEF.TLB for example. (These are binary files - you can use LIBRARY /LIST to list their contents or LIBRARY /EXTRACT to examine a particular member.) On the other hand, there may not be a text library file involved and CXML may be expecting to find a plain text file called CXMLDEF.FOR - it might be worth looking for this in and around SYS$EXAMPLES: I found this on the net and shows CXML installed in a different version of OpenVMS - The system is a Digital Personal Workstation 500au: $ product show product * --- --- PRODUCT KIT TYPE STATE --- --- DEC AXPVMS CXML V3.59-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.3-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.3-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS NS_NAV_EXPORT V3.3 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1 Platform Installed DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1 Oper System Installed --- --- 9 items found and what I see is that there is a FORTRAN, FORRTL and CXML product installed. I can't seem to find anything about the FORRTL product. When a relatively new compiler is installed on an older operating system (V7.2-1 in this case), it is sometimes necessary to update the run time library in order to take advantage of some of the new features provided by the compiler. I can't recall if this has to be done separately or if it happens automatically (if appropriate) when the compiler is installed. I think the latter. A newer run time library than the one that comes with VMS 8.4 may not be available. If you installed FORTRAN first and then CXML, it may be worth trying the other way around in case CXML is getting confused by an updated run time library provided by the FORTRAN install. Unfortunately, I can't see an easy way to get back where you started from except by starting with a fresh install of the operating system. Anyway, if the CXML install allowed you to continue even though it complained about the run time library, I think there will be few consequences. I imagine things will just work once you solve the missing include file problem. Regards, Peter Coghlan. I was able to get the Fortran and C examples in SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.CXML] to compile and run. I was not able to be the C++ example to compile, but I'm more interested in Fortran and C so it doesn't bother me. In order to get the Fortran examples to compile, link and run: $@SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]CXML$SET_LIB VAX (IEEE is another option, but didn't run on my ALPHA) $FORTRAN/INCLUDE=SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB] file.for (this picks up the missing CXMLDEF.FOR Include) $ link file.obj (didn't need to do anything special here, just ordinary link) $ r file ( this works ) I think I'll try installing CXML first, then Fortran and see what happens. I saw someone who recommended installing CXX before CC on ALpha, so there may be a hidden correct order. Doug
Re: HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!
Yup that’s me, stuck working! > On Nov 22, 2018, at 11:38 AM, Jim MacKenzie via cctalk > wrote: > > And happy Thursday to all the non-Americans :) (Stuck at work today :( :) ) > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ED SHARPE > via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 11:34 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: HAPPY THANKSGIVING! > > HAPPY THANKSGIVING! 2018! > > Sent from AOL Mobile Mail >
Re: Teletype cheap
Thanks for the source! I shall inquire... Steve On 11/22/2018 8:41 AM, W2HX wrote: The guru of ASR33s is WAYNE KB1FDW, teletypepa...@comcast.net sales, repairs, advice. 73 Eugene W2HX -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steve shumaker via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 6:16 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Teletype cheap It lives!! Retrieved the EPay ASR33 over the weekend. Unit described as "As is - for parts" turned out to be almost completely intact school surplus unit stored inside somewhere in Orange county since removed from service in mid 80s (professionally maintained w service tag dated 1984). Realized as soon as I saw it up close that it was in far better shape than expected. Plastic parts have three minor breaks not immediately visible and probably reparable Case parts missing: chad box, tape punch cover; copy tray Internally, seems completely intact except for 2 of the 4 gold pins in the tape reader along with their springs Keyboard cover has 2 plastic pins broken but unit stays in place and keys move correctly except for the space bar which doesn't return when pressed. Keys are worn but in fairly good shape although two are cracked. Weird comms setup. Although from my reading it sounds as there was no standard, this one doesn't match anything I've found in the hobbyist lit so far: Neither plug 2 nor the terminal strip are in use at all (terminal strip only has pos 1 and 2 in use for power). Unit has two external cables that appear original since they both have the same thread style cable ties in use in the internal wire harness. One cable ends in a molex plug and the other in a small "centronics" style plug. Wires for the centronics style connector terminate in plug 1 and 3. Another (related?) anomaly: the large resistor associated with the current loop setup isn't present. So, inspected everything, as recommended here, replaced the print hammer pad, checked caps and all fuses. Motor turned freely by hand when gently pushed. Plugged it in, turned it on to local and it fired right up. All keyboard functions appear to work. Questions: Anyone recognize the cabling setup? Are the missing gold colored double pins in the tape reader replaceable? What sort of adhesive works for cracks in the cover under the hood photos here for the curious: https://photos.app.goo.gl/endqTANG3mZgWG3q8 Steve On 10/26/2018 7:39 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: OK, got it. Will be my first one. Now, how does one transport the thing? Does it easily come off the pedestal? Can it be laid on it's back? Anything need to be secured before it gets moved? Steve n 10/24/2018 6:56 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teletype-Machine-Model-3320-3WA-Teletypewriter-AS-IS-FOR-PARTS-local-pick-up/142981290439?hash=item214a5959c7:g:UXoAAOSwmXJbylEN:rk:6:pf:1=true b
RE: HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!
And happy Thursday to all the non-Americans :) (Stuck at work today :( :) ) -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ED SHARPE via cctalk Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 11:34 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: HAPPY THANKSGIVING! HAPPY THANKSGIVING! 2018! Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!
HAPPY THANKSGIVING! 2018! Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Re: George Keremedjiev
- Original Message - From: "geneb via cctalk" To: "ED SHARPE" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 11:45 AM Subject: Re: George Keremedjiev > On Wed, 21 Nov 2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > >> not much adjustments... may be easier if you just bypass my messages? >> >> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail >> > Maybe it's because many of us don't use a point-and-drool interface that > would give the user the chance to skip the message before being forced to > read it. > > Look, I get that you've decided that hundreds of people are wrong and it's > not your fault. How about we work on getting you to stop top posting > instead? ;) > > g. > > And proofreading a bit before pressing 'send'...
Re: George Keremedjiev
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: not much adjustments... may be easier if you just bypass my messages? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Maybe it's because many of us don't use a point-and-drool interface that would give the user the chance to skip the message before being forced to read it. Look, I get that you've decided that hundreds of people are wrong and it's not your fault. How about we work on getting you to stop top posting instead? ;) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
RE: Teletype cheap
The guru of ASR33s is WAYNE KB1FDW, teletypepa...@comcast.net sales, repairs, advice. 73 Eugene W2HX -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steve shumaker via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 6:16 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Teletype cheap It lives!! Retrieved the EPay ASR33 over the weekend. Unit described as "As is - for parts" turned out to be almost completely intact school surplus unit stored inside somewhere in Orange county since removed from service in mid 80s (professionally maintained w service tag dated 1984). Realized as soon as I saw it up close that it was in far better shape than expected. Plastic parts have three minor breaks not immediately visible and probably reparable Case parts missing: chad box, tape punch cover; copy tray Internally, seems completely intact except for 2 of the 4 gold pins in the tape reader along with their springs Keyboard cover has 2 plastic pins broken but unit stays in place and keys move correctly except for the space bar which doesn't return when pressed. Keys are worn but in fairly good shape although two are cracked. Weird comms setup. Although from my reading it sounds as there was no standard, this one doesn't match anything I've found in the hobbyist lit so far: Neither plug 2 nor the terminal strip are in use at all (terminal strip only has pos 1 and 2 in use for power). Unit has two external cables that appear original since they both have the same thread style cable ties in use in the internal wire harness. One cable ends in a molex plug and the other in a small "centronics" style plug. Wires for the centronics style connector terminate in plug 1 and 3. Another (related?) anomaly: the large resistor associated with the current loop setup isn't present. So, inspected everything, as recommended here, replaced the print hammer pad, checked caps and all fuses. Motor turned freely by hand when gently pushed. Plugged it in, turned it on to local and it fired right up. All keyboard functions appear to work. Questions: Anyone recognize the cabling setup? Are the missing gold colored double pins in the tape reader replaceable? What sort of adhesive works for cracks in the cover under the hood photos here for the curious: https://photos.app.goo.gl/endqTANG3mZgWG3q8 Steve On 10/26/2018 7:39 PM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: > OK, got it. Will be my first one. Now, how does one transport the > thing? Does it easily come off the pedestal? Can it be laid on > it's back? Anything need to be secured before it gets moved? > > Steve > > n 10/24/2018 6:56 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teletype-Machine-Model-3320-3WA-Teletypewriter-AS-IS-FOR-PARTS-local-pick-up/142981290439?hash=item214a5959c7:g:UXoAAOSwmXJbylEN:rk:6:pf:1=true >> >> >> >> b >> > >
Re: George Keremedjiev
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: who knows? what mail program are you using that does that? In a message dated 11/21/2018 1:25:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: At 02:03 PM 11/21/2018, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: I sold him my extra classic 8 with the plexi covers on it... sn 200 series we kept sn #18 Side question: What process is turning non-blanking spaces into ISO-8859-1 circumflex-A for you? I see 'Â' all throughout your emails. It's not his email client that's the problem, it's yours. It constantly inserts weird characters between words. I see the same problem in Alpine, and I've never seen the issue from any other sender. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Re: Missing FORRTL
Yes, there is a SYS$SHARE:DEC$FORRTL.EXE in SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB], which was put there when the Fortran compiler was installed. I can compile, link and run ordinary Fortran programs. There should have been a SYS$SHARE:DEC$FORRTL.EXE present from when the operating system was installed but installing the FORTRAN compiler may have updated it. However, I forced the installation of CXML and tried to compile one of the examples and that failed - couldn't find INCLUDE 'CXMLDEF.FOR'. This is a missing source include file and is not related to the run time library. It is needed at compile time, not at run time. I suspect it is normally found in what VMS calls a text library file, probably matching SYS$SHARE:*DEF.TLB - include files used by the FORTRAN compiler are to be found in SYS$SHARE:FORSYSDEF.TLB for example. (These are binary files - you can use LIBRARY /LIST to list their contents or LIBRARY /EXTRACT to examine a particular member.) On the other hand, there may not be a text library file involved and CXML may be expecting to find a plain text file called CXMLDEF.FOR - it might be worth looking for this in and around SYS$EXAMPLES: I found this on the net and shows CXML installed in a different version of OpenVMS - The system is a Digital Personal Workstation 500au: $ product show product * --- --- PRODUCT KIT TYPE STATE --- --- DEC AXPVMS CXML V3.59-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.3-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.3-1 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS NS_NAV_EXPORT V3.3 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1 Platform Installed DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10 Full LP Installed DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1 Oper System Installed --- --- 9 items found and what I see is that there is a FORTRAN, FORRTL and CXML product installed. I can't seem to find anything about the FORRTL product. When a relatively new compiler is installed on an older operating system (V7.2-1 in this case), it is sometimes necessary to update the run time library in order to take advantage of some of the new features provided by the compiler. I can't recall if this has to be done separately or if it happens automatically (if appropriate) when the compiler is installed. I think the latter. A newer run time library than the one that comes with VMS 8.4 may not be available. If you installed FORTRAN first and then CXML, it may be worth trying the other way around in case CXML is getting confused by an updated run time library provided by the FORTRAN install. Unfortunately, I can't see an easy way to get back where you started from except by starting with a fresh install of the operating system. Anyway, if the CXML install allowed you to continue even though it complained about the run time library, I think there will be few consequences. I imagine things will just work once you solve the missing include file problem. Regards, Peter Coghlan.
Re: Battery warning in Falco terminals
On 11/21/18 7:36 PM, Mike Stein wrote: Al, If you're looking for a service manual for that HP2624 you might have a look at the manual for the MAI 4309; it's the same board with a few minor differences (memory) and different firmware. And of course it's on bitsavers ;-) mike thanks! It also appears there is some overlap between Morrow and Zenith terminals. I took apart my MD-3P (the outer shell is a mechanical nightmare) and when I looked at the MDT-60 service manual the schematic is the same as a Zenith model but the board in the terminal is a Morrow design. The MAI terminal manual that was just sent to me was made by Direct, need to get my copies of the Direct manuals scanned.
