ISO: 68000/68010 CPU board for ZAX ICD-178 (CPU S-813)

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

Hi all --

I picked up a ZAX ICD-178 in-circuit debugger in the hopes of using it 
to help debug / reverse-engineer a couple of 68k-based machines I have.  
This unit can work with 68000, 68010, and 68008-based machines, however 
a different emulation CPU module is used for the 68008 vs. the 
68000/68010.  Unfortunately, mine came with only the 68008 CPU module.


Since this is a fairly uncommon device, I figure it's unlikely, but just 
in case someone's sitting on a pile of parts somewhere, if you have the 
68000/68010 Emulation CPU module ("CPU S-813") please drop me a line.


Thanks as always,

Josh

Re: Tektronix 6800 Board Bucket and 4051 Working Together Video

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

Thats amazing Brad!

Good job.

The amazing is that you have working board bucket, that has to be the rarest 
thing out there in 4051 hardware.

I need to follow vcfed and you guys more, you are definitely on top of the 
hardware.

Randy

From: cctalk  on behalf of Brad H via cctalk 

Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 9:16 AM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: Tektronix 6800 Board Bucket and 4051 Working Together Video

I'm not sure how many of you who are on this list are on the vcfed.org
forum, but just for those who aren't, with the help of Dave and Monty from
there, I have recently restored a 4051 I bought a couple years ago to
working condition.  Last night with their guidance I connected it to a
Tektronix development system called the Board Bucket, also a 6800 driven
machine that Tek engineers/employees could buy from Tek (I think in parts)
that I purchased previously.



With the 4051 in terminal mode, we were able to demonstrate that the BASIC
in ROM in the Board Bucket can drive graphics on the Tek terminal.  This was
pretty much clear after I dumped the ROMs and Dave had a close look at them,
but it was still very cool to see the two working together nonetheless.  I
feel very privileged to have both one of the products of Tek's computer
development efforts and the development machine used to help create it
(and/or others) in my possession.



Anyway for those interested, I posted a 4 min video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkHRzx5Bno



Brad

Re: sun model 47. code 4/40 does it have the nvram with battery?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

Yes. It is next to floppy in the upper half of the chassis. There is a 
50-pin (IDC connectors) ribbon cable that goes down to system board at 
the bottom of the lower half of the chassis. The chassis splits in the 
vertical middle in a, if looking at the chassis, fairly obvious place. 
Because of the cables that run from the top to bottom, it effectively 
hinges at the front of the chassis. There a couple buttons on the side 
to release and sometimes a security cable bit to remove (phillips screw).


On 12/1/18 7:08 PM, ED SHARPE wrote:
Hi  Alan - The  hard drive is same  size cabinet    with  I  guess 
a SCSSI   cable.  I  will have  to  look  at  it  further...   wonder 
if starting it  out on  a  variac  would  help the capacitors  like  
I  do  with the old radio sets  here in the museum  ed#


In a message dated 12/1/2018 8:04:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
ape...@snowmoose.com writes:


Well, as I said, in my experience, the NVRAMs that you can buy new 
from Mouser work good enough. And the mod to the original battery 
isn't that hard to make.


In my experience with IPCs, the bigger problem is the power supplies. 
If the PS on the IPC that you have now doesn't need to be re'capped 
now, it will need it soon. After that will likely be the HDD that 
needs work. Almost all of my HDDs that originally shipped with 
lunchbox systems up to the 424 meg (ST1480N) have died. The price for 
working 50-pin SCSI HDDs are at a point that SD2SCSI parts make more 
sense (unless you want to exhibit them as they originally ran).


alan

On 12/1/18 6:55 PM, ED SHARPE wrote:

BUMMER
It may become a static  display.

Ed#


In a message dated 12/1/2018 7:53:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

A 4/40 is a SPARCstation IPC. It used a M48T02 NVRAM for the IDPROM.
Yes, one with the dreaded battery.

alan

On 12/1/18 5:04 PM, Ed via cctalk wrote:
> we were given this and a hard dribe a floor standimg
decwriter. does this use NV ram with dreaded battery? thanks,ed
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Re: sun model 47. code 4/40 does it have the nvram with battery?

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

Hi  Alan - The  hard drive is same  size cabinet    with  I  guess a  SCSSI 
  cable.  I  will have  to  look  at  it   further...   wonder if starting it  
out on  a  variac   would  help the capacitors  like  I  do  with the old radio 
sets  here in the museum  ed#  


In a message dated 12/1/2018 8:04:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
ape...@snowmoose.com writes:

 
Well, as I said, in my experience, the NVRAMs that you can buy new from Mouser 
work good enough. And the mod to the original battery isn't that hard to make.

In my experience with IPCs, the bigger problem is the power supplies. If the PS 
on the IPC that you have now doesn't need to be re'capped now, it will need it 
soon. After that will likely be the HDD that needs work. Almost all of my HDDs 
that originally shipped with lunchbox systems up to the 424 meg (ST1480N) have 
died. The price for working 50-pin SCSI HDDs are at a point that SD2SCSI parts 
make more sense (unless you want to exhibit them as they originally ran).

alan

On 12/1/18 6:55 PM, ED SHARPE wrote:
BUMMER
It may become a static  display.
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 12/1/2018 7:53:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
 
A 4/40 is a SPARCstation IPC. It used a M48T02 NVRAM for the IDPROM. 

Yes, one with the dreaded battery.

alan

On 12/1/18 5:04 PM, Ed via cctalk wrote:
> we were given this and a hard dribe a floor standimg decwriter. does this 
> use NV ram with dreaded battery? thanks,ed
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Re: sun model 47. code 4/40 does it have the nvram with battery?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

Well, as I said, in my experience, the NVRAMs that you can buy new from 
Mouser work good enough. And the mod to the original battery isn't that 
hard to make.


In my experience with IPCs, the bigger problem is the power supplies. If 
the PS on the IPC that you have now doesn't need to be re'capped now, it 
will need it soon. After that will likely be the HDD that needs work. 
Almost all of my HDDs that originally shipped with lunchbox systems up 
to the 424 meg (ST1480N) have died. The price for working 50-pin SCSI 
HDDs are at a point that SD2SCSI parts make more sense (unless you want 
to exhibit them as they originally ran).


alan

On 12/1/18 6:55 PM, ED SHARPE wrote:

BUMMER
It may become a static display.

Ed#


In a message dated 12/1/2018 7:53:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:


A 4/40 is a SPARCstation IPC. It used a M48T02 NVRAM for the IDPROM.
Yes, one with the dreaded battery.

alan

On 12/1/18 5:04 PM, Ed via cctalk wrote:
> we were given this and a hard dribe a floor standimg decwriter. 
does this use NV ram with dreaded battery? thanks,ed

>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Re: sun model 47. code 4/40 does it have the nvram with battery?

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

BUMMER
It may become a static  display.
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 12/1/2018 7:53:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
A 4/40 is a SPARCstation IPC. It used a M48T02 NVRAM for the IDPROM. 

Yes, one with the dreaded battery.

alan

On 12/1/18 5:04 PM, Ed via cctalk wrote:
> we were given this and a hard dribe a floor standimg decwriter. does this 
> use NV ram with dreaded battery? thanks,ed
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Re: sun model 47. code 4/40 does it have the nvram with battery?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

A 4/40 is a SPARCstation IPC. It used a M48T02 NVRAM for the IDPROM. 
Yes, one with the dreaded battery.


alan

On 12/1/18 5:04 PM, Ed via cctalk wrote:

we were given this and a hard dribe a floor  standimg decwriter.  does this 
use NV ram with dreaded battery? thanks,ed

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Re: sun model 47. code 4/40 does it have the nvram with battery?

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

SHOULD  SAY  HARD  DRIVE    COULD NOT  SEE OVER THE STACK  OF  BOOKS ON THE DESK


In a message dated 12/1/2018 6:04:12 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
we were given this and a hard dribe a floor standimg decwriter. does this 
use NV ram with dreaded battery? thanks,ed


Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

sun model 47. code 4/40 does it have the nvram with battery?

[Ed via cctalk]

we were given this and a hard dribe a floor  standimg decwriter.  does this 
use NV ram with dreaded battery? thanks,ed

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[alan--- via cctalk]

I'm not sure what the 'B' in the middle means (silicon rev?), but the 
DS12885 has been around for decades.  I use them the JR-IDE project.


-Alan


On 2018-12-01 17:47, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

I probably need to do a writeup on fully potted parts, like the 48T59 
and

DS1287.


 See a photo documentary here:
 for my
proposal of a DS1287 rework.

 I actually had a nasty surprise trying to rework a DS1287A, with a 
date

code indicating a clearly faked marking.  After removing the integrated
coin cell the marking on the embedded IC revealed showed it wasn't even 
a

DS1287A originally as the IC was a DS12B885.  This is a part I haven't
heard of existing, so I enquired Maxim, but they had no clue about it.  
I
suspect the DS12B885 was the core of the DS12B887 (wired differently 
from
both DS12887 and DS12887A), and the DS12B885 has never been marketed as 
a

part on its own.

  Maciej

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

> I probably need to do a writeup on fully potted parts, like the 48T59 and
> DS1287.

 See a photo documentary here:
 for my 
proposal of a DS1287 rework.

 I actually had a nasty surprise trying to rework a DS1287A, with a date 
code indicating a clearly faked marking.  After removing the integrated 
coin cell the marking on the embedded IC revealed showed it wasn't even a 
DS1287A originally as the IC was a DS12B885.  This is a part I haven't 
heard of existing, so I enquired Maxim, but they had no clue about it.  I 
suspect the DS12B885 was the core of the DS12B887 (wired differently from 
both DS12887 and DS12887A), and the DS12B885 has never been marketed as a 
part on its own.

  Maciej

Re: Text encoding Babel. Was Re: George Keremedjiev

[Jim Manley via cctalk]

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 3:28 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 11/30/2018 02:33 PM, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
> > There's enough slack in the approved offerings that electives can be
> > weighted more toward the technical direction (e.g., user interface and
> > experience) or the arts direction (e.g., psychology and history).  The
> idea
> > was to close the severely-growing gap between those who know everything
> > about computing and those who need to know enough, but not everything, to
> > be truly effective in the information-dominant world we've been careening
> > toward without nearly enough preparation of future generations.
>
> I kept thinking to myself that many of the people that are considered
> pioneers in computers were actually something else by trade and learned
> how to use computers and / or created what they needed for the computer
> to be able to do their primary job.
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>

Most people know that Newton's motivation for developing calculus was
explaining the motions of the planets, but not many know that he served as
the Warden, and then Master, of the Royal Mint, as well as being fascinated
with optics and vision (to the point where he inserted a needle into one of
his eyes!) and a closet alchemist.  His competitor, Leibniz, was motivated
to develop calculus by a strong desire to win more billiards bets from his
fellow wealthy buddies in Hanover, the financial capital of Germany at the
time, while developing the mathematics of the physics governing the
collisions of billiard balls.  Babbage was motivated to develop calculating
and computing machines to eliminate the worldwide average of seven errors
per page in astronomical, navigational, and mathematical tables of the
1820s.

Shannon and Hamming (with whom I worked - the latter, not the former!) were
motivated to represent Boolean logic in digital circuits and improve
long-distance communications by formalizing how to predictably ferret more
signal out of noise.  Turing was motivated to test his computing theories
to break the Nazi Enigma ciphers (character-oriented, vs. word-oriented
codes) and moved far beyond the mathematical underpinnings of his theories
into the engineering of Colossus and the bombes.  Hollerith was motivated
by the requirement to complete the decennial census tabulations within 10
years (the 1890 census was going to take 13 years to tabulate using
traditional manual methods within the available budget).  Mauchly and
Eckert were motivated to automate calculations for ballistics tables for
WW-II weapons systems that were being fielded faster than tables could be
produced manually.

Hopper developed the first compiler and the first programming language to
use English words, Flow-Matic, that led, in turn, to COBOL being created to
meet financial software needs.  John Backus and the other developers of
FORTRAN were likewise motivated by scientific and engineering calculation
requirements.  Kernigan, Ritchie, and Thompson were motivated by a desire
to perform an immense prank, in the form of Unix and A/B/BCPL/C, on an
unsuspecting and all-too-serious professional computing world (
http://www.stokely.com/lighter.side/unix.prank.html).  Gates and Allen were
motivated by all of the money lying around on desks, in their drawers, and
in the drawers worn by the people sitting at said desks, to foist PC/MS-DOS
and Windows on the less serious computing public.  Kildall was motivated by
the challenges of developing multi-pass compilation on systems with minimal
microcomputer hardware resources.

Meanwhile, the rest of the computing field was motivated to pursue the next
shinier pieces of higher-performance hardware, developing ever-more-bloated
programming languages, OSes, services, and applications that continue to
slow down even the latest-and-greatest systems.  Berners-Lee was motivated
to help scientists and engineers at the European Organization for Nuclear
Research (CERN - the Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire) organize
and share their work without having to become expert software developers in
their own right.  Yang, Filo, Brin, Page, Zuckerberg, et al, were motivated
by whatever money could be scrounged from sofas used by couch-surfing,
homeless Millenials (redundant syntax fully intended), and from local news
outlets' advertising accounts.  Selling everyone's, but their own,
personally-identifiable information, probably including that of their own
mothers, has been a welcome additional cornucopia of revenue to them.

Computer science and engineering degrees weren't even offered yet when I
attended the heavily science and engineering oriented naval institution
where I earned my BS in engineering (70% of degrees awarded were in STEM
fields).  The closest you could get were math and electrical engineering
degrees, taking the very few electives offered in CS and CE disciplines.
Granted, the computer I primarily had access to was a secondhand GE-265

Re: Re: Text encoding Babel.

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 11/30/18 3:22 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
Aside:  I suspect that none of the (plain-text / non-MIME) digest 
subscribers will see that properly.  I've found out from Mark S., 
Mailman's maintainer, that UTF-8 isn't maintained in the plain-text / 
non-MIME digest.


If anyone cares (I did manage to get subscribed in time)…

The Unicode (and format=flowed line wrapping) survives the digesting 
process for the MIME digest.  The text digest corrupted Unicode (and 
format=flowed).


I forgot how nice MIME digests could be.  (Assuming your MUA understands 
multipart/digest with message/rfc822 attachments.)  —  I'm actually 
replying to the digest attachment and it should get threaded with the 
proper message.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: eBay search fail

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> On a whim, I tried searching for '"pdp-11" "pdp-11"' (i.e. just
> repeated the keyword), and this time it _did_ turn it up! Very odd.
> I wonder why that made a difference? 

So I have a new theory about this. Searching for 'pdp-11' causes eBay to
automagically limit the search to the 'Vintage Computing' category. They
must have a keyword->category database.

Anyway, if I manually then select 'All' categories, I get the same results
for searches for both 'pdp-11' and 'pdp-11 pdp-11'. So my theory is that
'pdp-11 pdp-11' _doesn't_ hit their database, and so it goes to 'All' -
thereby producing different results.

So I just have to hit 'All' every time I do a search...

Noel

Tektronix 6800 Board Bucket and 4051 Working Together Video

[Brad H via cctalk]

I'm not sure how many of you who are on this list are on the vcfed.org
forum, but just for those who aren't, with the help of Dave and Monty from
there, I have recently restored a 4051 I bought a couple years ago to
working condition.  Last night with their guidance I connected it to a
Tektronix development system called the Board Bucket, also a 6800 driven
machine that Tek engineers/employees could buy from Tek (I think in parts)
that I purchased previously.

 

With the 4051 in terminal mode, we were able to demonstrate that the BASIC
in ROM in the Board Bucket can drive graphics on the Tek terminal.  This was
pretty much clear after I dumped the ROMs and Dave had a close look at them,
but it was still very cool to see the two working together nonetheless.  I
feel very privileged to have both one of the products of Tek's computer
development efforts and the development machine used to help create it
(and/or others) in my possession.  

 

Anyway for those interested, I posted a 4 min video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkHRzx5Bno

 

Brad

BA11-C and BA11-E mounting boxes

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

For some actual content about classic computers (instead of flaming about
various ideas for improving existing systems), I think I've worked out
why the BA11-C and BA11-E mounting boxes have out of sequence variant codes.

It's obvious the variants were not assigned in creation order (the /44 and /24
use the -A variant box), but the -C and -E (the earliest variants, it seems)
apparently come from the fact that the first is used to hold the CPU and
console (for the /20), and the latter is an Expansion box.

And speaking of the -C/-E, somewhat to my surprise, I've discovered that their
H720 Power Supply is actually a switching supply. Ironically, its manual gives
a _far_ better explanation of the EI conversion concept than the later H742
one (which we discussed here at some length, after it confused me no end).


Speak of BA11 variants, I've seen mention a BA11-B on Web sites, but only a
single ref in a DEC manual (the DH11 Maint Man); does anyone have a pointer
to a location where it's dicussed at more length? If so, thanks!

Noel