Re: Looking for a home for most issues of BYTE Magazine

[ben via cctalk]

On 12/15/2018 12:54 AM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:

Zane, your comments are appreciated.

I have paid for subscriptions to ebooks that cost ~10 a month, and
they are OK for text, but when a schematic comes up, it sucks
(scribd) you cant zoom or increase the resolution. I also follow you
on your purchase experience with out of print and search. I am dumb
or spend hours on search, then find it and think everybody already
knows but me.  Most recent all the Dr. Dobbs and Byte, Pop Sci online
I only found recently.


That still leaves Kilobaud  scans.


I suppose there is money to be made if you can check in your morals.
I see all this (now) public domain type stuff (including Al's
bitsavers manuals) for sale on ebay DVDs. The unwashed will be
relieved from their dollars.


I better shower, so I can clean and EVIL.


Randy 


Ben.

Re: Looking for a home for most issues of BYTE Magazine

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

Kilobaud is also up on the Internet archive.
https://archive.org/details/kilobaudmagazine
Kilobaud Microcomputing Magazine - Internet 
Archive
Kilobaud Microcomputing was a magazine dedicated to the computer homebrew 
hobbyists from the end of the 1970s until the beginning of the 1980s. Wayne 
Green, the Publisher/Editor of kilobaud, had been the publisher of BYTE 
magazine, (another influential microcomputer magazine of the time) where he...
archive.org



From: cctalk  on behalf of ben via cctalk 

Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 12:27 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Looking for a home for most issues of BYTE Magazine

On 12/15/2018 12:54 AM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
> Zane, your comments are appreciated.
>
> I have paid for subscriptions to ebooks that cost ~10 a month, and
> they are OK for text, but when a schematic comes up, it sucks
> (scribd) you cant zoom or increase the resolution. I also follow you
> on your purchase experience with out of print and search. I am dumb
> or spend hours on search, then find it and think everybody already
> knows but me.  Most recent all the Dr. Dobbs and Byte, Pop Sci online
> I only found recently.

That still leaves Kilobaud  scans.

> I suppose there is money to be made if you can check in your morals.
> I see all this (now) public domain type stuff (including Al's
> bitsavers manuals) for sale on ebay DVDs. The unwashed will be
> relieved from their dollars.

I better shower, so I can clean and EVIL.

> Randy 

Ben.

Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core when 
turned off.
Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?

Rod Smallwood


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Latest batch of goodies from Sellam's VWoCW plus 10% off!

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah, folks!  And holiday greetings to the
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It's time to treat yourself or your favorite nerd for the holidays, so as
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Xerox 6085 "Daybreak" CPU
Xerox 6085 IOP Input-Output Processor (C4) board
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Xerox ViewPoint 2.0 Documentation Set (Volumes 1-6)
Xerox Desktop Publishing Series: Ventura Publisher Edition manuals
Xerox Telecopier 7032/7033 Facsimile Terminal User Handbook
Connect Computer Z183-2 WonUnder II
Western Digital VGA Plus C
Future Domain Corp TMC-830
Iomega PC2B SCSI Controller
Iomega PC2B50F SCSI Controller
Orchid ProDesigner VGA
Silicon Graphics O2 Workstation
IBM Type 7208-001 External 2.3GB 8mm Tape Drive
BM BM-401 486 CPU Breakout Adaptor
Compaq DeskPro DSM Monitor
HP 2641A/2645A/2645S Display Station Reference Manual
HP 2647A Graphics Terminal Manual Set
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Sellam

Re: Tektronix X11 terminal

[James Plummer via cctalk]

hi im interested if its dual voltage (110 or 240v 50/60hz)

unfortunately i live in australia so postage maybe an issue but i have a 
us address i could ship it to



On 15/12/2018 6:14 AM, Carlo Pisani via cctalk wrote:

hi
I have a xp217 tektronix terminal for sale
with its PSU and firmware

let me know if someone wants it



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Researching IBM rare equipment from 50s to 80s

[Randy Dawson via cctalk]

I worked with an ex-IBMer who told me about this thing.

It was nick-named "The Noodle Snatcher" - with a puff of air it wiggled the mag 
tape and wrapped it around a drum for read/write.

It had a nasty habit of mis-handling the tape.

He told me that during a sales presentation  to a customer, this happened, it 
wrinkled the tape wrapped it around the drum, and then put the crumpled tape 
back in the holder.

The IBM salesman, without missing a beat, said, "and when it finds BAD data..."

From: cctech  on behalf of Jay Jaeger via cctech 

Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 1:04 PM
To: cct...@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Researching IBM rare equipment from 50s to 80s

On 12/14/2018 4:41 AM, Peter Van Peborgh via cctech wrote:
> Fellow geeks of more mature vintage,
>
> Do any of you guys know whether it is possible to find out to whom any IBM
> equipment was sold back in the day? (Still chasing IBM 2321 Data Cell - I
> never learn!)
>
> Many thanks,
>
> peter
>

Well, if your intention is to actually find one, can't help.

I do know that Wisconsin DOT had one back in the day, on an IBM 360/50,
but it was gone before I started work there.  I think that I have a
large negative of the beastie lying around somewhere.  No, it is not
stuffed anywhere.  Indeed the building that formerly housed it (and was
home for me during my career) was razed just this year.

In general, even if IBM still had such records, I am sure that they
would not release them, and doubt that they would be indexed in fine
detail such that you could find customers of any particular machine type
(unless they fed them to Watson ;) ).  Leased units would have been
turned back into IBM.  Purchased units would have been mostly traded in
and scrapped.

A Google Search found these instances of customer units (there may well
be more - I stopped after a few pages)

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/datacell.html

https://www.facebook.com/HealthManagementTechnology/photos/ibm-2321-data-cell-drive/132475567020/

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IBM2321DataCellAtUMich.jpg




JRJ

RE: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Perhaps Cypress FM1808 (32Kx8).  Obsolete, but available on eBay.  SOP for a 
bit of extra challenge!

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod G8DGR via 
cctech
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:22 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core when 
turned off.
Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?

Rod Smallwood


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[alan--- via cctalk]

Ramtron had most of the patents on Ferroelectric RAM in the past.  
Cypress acquired them many years ago.


New production FRAM is still sold on Digikey - in 5V SOIC packages.  Not 
cheap though:


8K x 8 - $12.72 (qty 1):

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM16W08-SGTR/428-3774-1-ND/6181520

32K x 8 - $19.54 (qty 1):

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM18W08-SGTR/428-3775-1-ND/6181516

Completely non-volatile.  Faster than most SRAM of the day (130ns cycle 
time).  And good for 100+ trillion write cycles and more than a century 
of endurance.


-Alan


On 2018-12-15 05:19, Paul Birkel via cctech wrote:

Perhaps Cypress FM1808 (32Kx8).  Obsolete, but available on eBay.  SOP
for a bit of extra challenge!

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
G8DGR via cctech
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:22 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core
when turned off.
Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?

Rod Smallwood


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: Looking for a home for most issues of BYTE Magazine

[ED SHARPE via cctalk]

these  may already  be scanned and  out there.

 
we  have   hardcopy  and   what a  joy to  sit  and   just  look  though in  a  
big  arm chair
 
If  you have  space   always  great to have  them in  prit  as  the images  
for  displays  etc   are  better     than what usually is  out   compressed on 
the  net.  I  have  found though internet  archive    has   some  jpeg2000 I 
think it is     pages   for many things  that  are  pretty  sharp.
 
 
In a message dated 12/14/2018 11:50:36 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
On 12/14/18 11:16 AM, John Klos via cctalk wrote:

> Hi, all,

Hi John,

> Does anyone know of any person or organization within a reasonable 
> distance from southern California who might take these magazines and 
> preserve them, instead of just selling them on eBay?

Have you contacted the Internet Archive and / or BitSavers? I think one 
or both of them will take things like this and scan them for 
preservation and to share with other people.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Texas Instruments' MSP430 MCUs use FRAM. This one for example:
http://www.ti.com/product/msp430fr5969 costs ~$2.30.

You could do some emulation in the same package, too. Not sure what your
speed requirements are of course!

=]
--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com


On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 10:37 AM alan--- via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> Ramtron had most of the patents on Ferroelectric RAM in the past.
> Cypress acquired them many years ago.
>
> New production FRAM is still sold on Digikey - in 5V SOIC packages.  Not
> cheap though:
>
> 8K x 8 - $12.72 (qty 1):
>
>
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM16W08-SGTR/428-3774-1-ND/6181520
>
> 32K x 8 - $19.54 (qty 1):
>
>
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM18W08-SGTR/428-3775-1-ND/6181516
>
> Completely non-volatile.  Faster than most SRAM of the day (130ns cycle
> time).  And good for 100+ trillion write cycles and more than a century
> of endurance.
>
> -Alan
>
>
> On 2018-12-15 05:19, Paul Birkel via cctech wrote:
> > Perhaps Cypress FM1808 (32Kx8).  Obsolete, but available on eBay.  SOP
> > for a bit of extra challenge!
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
> > G8DGR via cctech
> > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:22 AM
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > Subject: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.
> >
> > I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core
> > when turned off.
> > Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?
> >
> > Rod Smallwood
> >
> >
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

Another vote for RAMtron/Cypress FeRAM. I've used their FeRAMs in a number
of systems, here's a writeup on my "core board" for S-100:

http://www.glitchwrks.com/2016/03/29/ferroelectric-ram-part-1

I've got a bunch of FM18W08s in stock if you need one, I can stick it on a
DIP adapter if needed. One thing to be aware of, RAMtron FeRAMs latch the
address bus when *CS goes low, so make sure everything's set up before *CS
goes low.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 11:11 AM Anders Nelson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Texas Instruments' MSP430 MCUs use FRAM. This one for example:
> http://www.ti.com/product/msp430fr5969 costs ~$2.30.
>
> You could do some emulation in the same package, too. Not sure what your
> speed requirements are of course!
>
> =]
> --
> Anders Nelson
>
> +1 (517) 775-6129
>
> www.erogear.com
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 10:37 AM alan--- via cctalk  >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Ramtron had most of the patents on Ferroelectric RAM in the past.
> > Cypress acquired them many years ago.
> >
> > New production FRAM is still sold on Digikey - in 5V SOIC packages.  Not
> > cheap though:
> >
> > 8K x 8 - $12.72 (qty 1):
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM16W08-SGTR/428-3774-1-ND/6181520
> >
> > 32K x 8 - $19.54 (qty 1):
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM18W08-SGTR/428-3775-1-ND/6181516
> >
> > Completely non-volatile.  Faster than most SRAM of the day (130ns cycle
> > time).  And good for 100+ trillion write cycles and more than a century
> > of endurance.
> >
> > -Alan
> >
> >
> > On 2018-12-15 05:19, Paul Birkel via cctech wrote:
> > > Perhaps Cypress FM1808 (32Kx8).  Obsolete, but available on eBay.  SOP
> > > for a bit of extra challenge!
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
> > > G8DGR via cctech
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:22 AM
> > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > Subject: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.
> > >
> > > I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core
> > > when turned off.
> > > Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?
> > >
> > > Rod Smallwood
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >
>

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk]

On 12/15/2018 1:22 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core when 
turned off.
Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?

Rod Smallwood


Sent from Mail for Windows 10


I used Everspin MRAM chips for my PDP-8e memory cards. It's just like 
SRAM, fast at 35 ns, and unlimited read/write endurance.
Only drawback is it's 3.3 volts only. I just used level converters. It's 
a magnetoresistive memory, feels just like core.

$12 for a 64K x 16 chip at Digikey.

Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

RE: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

All very interesting.. 1201 alarm while I deal will all of the information
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: systems_glitch via cctalk
Sent: 15 December 2018 16:40
To: Anders Nelson; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

Another vote for RAMtron/Cypress FeRAM. I've used their FeRAMs in a number
of systems, here's a writeup on my "core board" for S-100:

http://www.glitchwrks.com/2016/03/29/ferroelectric-ram-part-1

I've got a bunch of FM18W08s in stock if you need one, I can stick it on a
DIP adapter if needed. One thing to be aware of, RAMtron FeRAMs latch the
address bus when *CS goes low, so make sure everything's set up before *CS
goes low.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 11:11 AM Anders Nelson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Texas Instruments' MSP430 MCUs use FRAM. This one for example:
> http://www.ti.com/product/msp430fr5969 costs ~$2.30.
>
> You could do some emulation in the same package, too. Not sure what your
> speed requirements are of course!
>
> =]
> --
> Anders Nelson
>
> +1 (517) 775-6129
>
> www.erogear.com
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 10:37 AM alan--- via cctalk  >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Ramtron had most of the patents on Ferroelectric RAM in the past.
> > Cypress acquired them many years ago.
> >
> > New production FRAM is still sold on Digikey - in 5V SOIC packages.  Not
> > cheap though:
> >
> > 8K x 8 - $12.72 (qty 1):
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM16W08-SGTR/428-3774-1-ND/6181520
> >
> > 32K x 8 - $19.54 (qty 1):
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cypress-semiconductor-corp/FM18W08-SGTR/428-3775-1-ND/6181516
> >
> > Completely non-volatile.  Faster than most SRAM of the day (130ns cycle
> > time).  And good for 100+ trillion write cycles and more than a century
> > of endurance.
> >
> > -Alan
> >
> >
> > On 2018-12-15 05:19, Paul Birkel via cctech wrote:
> > > Perhaps Cypress FM1808 (32Kx8).  Obsolete, but available on eBay.  SOP
> > > for a bit of extra challenge!
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod
> > > G8DGR via cctech
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:22 AM
> > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > Subject: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.
> > >
> > > I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core
> > > when turned off.
> > > Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?
> > >
> > > Rod Smallwood
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >
>

RE: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

1201.. 1201 ..  Processing large amount of data...
Rod


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk
Sent: 15 December 2018 16:45
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

On 12/15/2018 1:22 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core when 
> turned off.
> Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?
>
> Rod Smallwood
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
>
I used Everspin MRAM chips for my PDP-8e memory cards. It's just like 
SRAM, fast at 35 ns, and unlimited read/write endurance.
Only drawback is it's 3.3 volts only. I just used level converters. It's 
a magnetoresistive memory, feels just like core.
$12 for a 64K x 16 chip at Digikey.

Bob

-- 
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: Tektronix X11 terminal

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 12/14/18 12:14 PM, Carlo Pisani via cctalk wrote:

hi


Hi,


I have a xp217 tektronix terminal for sale with its PSU and firmware


Where are you / is it located?


let me know if someone wants it


I've had a passing interest in an X11 terminal for a while now.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/15/2018 03:22 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:

I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core when 
turned off.
Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?


Any CMOS SRAM chips can do this, with a backup battery.  I 
used a IS62WV6416DBLL in a project a while ago.  I did not 
use in in battery-backed mode, but it could do that.  You do 
have to make sure that any outputs from the memory are 
driven to the high-impedance state during power-off to 
prevent draining the battery.


Jon

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

FRAM or MRAM.  I make extensive use of them in my projects.

Everspin has a few (all SMT and 3.3v).  As I recall they run ~$20/ea for 4Mb 
(512K x 8 or 256K x 16).

TTFN - Guy

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 1:22 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core when 
> turned off.
> Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?
> 
> Rod Smallwood
> 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 

Re: Looking for a home for most issues of BYTE Magazine

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Dec 14, 2018, at 11:54 PM, Randy Dawson  wrote:
> 
> Zane, your comments are appreciated.
> 
> I have paid for subscriptions to ebooks that cost ~10 a month, and they are 
> OK for text, but when a schematic comes up, it sucks (scribd) you cant zoom 
> or increase the resolution.
> I also follow you on your purchase experience with out of print and search.  
> I am dumb or spend hours on search, then find it and think everybody already 
> knows but me.  Most recent all the Dr. Dobbs and Byte, Pop Sci online I only 
> found recently.
> I suppose there is money to be made if you can check in your morals.  I see 
> all this (now) public domain type stuff (including Al's bitsavers manuals) 
> for sale on ebay DVDs.
> The unwashed will be relieved from their dollars.
> 
> Randy

Now you’re touching on something that really ticks me off, and I’ve seen it 
done using Google Books, and others (the book I bought before I knew what was 
going on was done using a Google Books scan).  That’s the growing market on 
“Print On Demand” books done using these scans.  Many of these books are still 
covered under the original copywrite.   And of course, there are the folks 
selling the CD’s and DVD’s on eBay.


The people offering “reproductions" for sale in these fashions harm the 
community as a whole.

It also makes it rather challenging to find original copies for sale, as you 
have to wade through so many of these offerings.

Zane

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 12/15/18 10:01 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
> FRAM or MRAM.  I make extensive use of them in my projects.
> 
> Everspin has a few (all SMT and 3.3v).  As I recall they run ~$20/ea for 4Mb 
> (512K x 8 or 256K x 16).

As neither MRAM nor FRAM requires a write-after-read refresh, I fail to
see the "realism" in this that couldn't be satisfied with simple
battery-backed RAM or even flash-backed RAM.

Yes, MRAM is magnetic, but ti's not the same principle as real core.

FWIW,
Chuck

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

Chuck,

FRAM is destructive read on the die, from what I understand. It's just that
the onboard controller takes care of it for you, much like a core subsystem.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 1:55 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 12/15/18 10:01 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
> > FRAM or MRAM.  I make extensive use of them in my projects.
> >
> > Everspin has a few (all SMT and 3.3v).  As I recall they run ~$20/ea for
> 4Mb (512K x 8 or 256K x 16).
>
> As neither MRAM nor FRAM requires a write-after-read refresh, I fail to
> see the "realism" in this that couldn't be satisfied with simple
> battery-backed RAM or even flash-backed RAM.
>
> Yes, MRAM is magnetic, but ti's not the same principle as real core.
>
> FWIW,
> Chuck
>
>

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

If you want the real deal you can always make a driver out of a bunch of
H-bridge ICs and an old core plane. I'll skip suggesting you weave your own
core...

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 2:01 PM systems_glitch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> FRAM is destructive read on the die, from what I understand. It's just that
> the onboard controller takes care of it for you, much like a core
> subsystem.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 1:55 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > On 12/15/18 10:01 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
> > > FRAM or MRAM.  I make extensive use of them in my projects.
> > >
> > > Everspin has a few (all SMT and 3.3v).  As I recall they run ~$20/ea
> for
> > 4Mb (512K x 8 or 256K x 16).
> >
> > As neither MRAM nor FRAM requires a write-after-read refresh, I fail to
> > see the "realism" in this that couldn't be satisfied with simple
> > battery-backed RAM or even flash-backed RAM.
> >
> > Yes, MRAM is magnetic, but ti's not the same principle as real core.
> >
> > FWIW,
> > Chuck
> >
> >
>

Re: Data Electronics Incorporated (DEI) CMTD-300S2 tape drive manual

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

I've got a 3M DCD drive that's very similar--fixed multi-track head.
I've never seen a practical use for it, however, given the terribleness
of old QIC carts.

DEI also re-packaged the Exabyte 8mm transports in their own enclosures
with their own LCD readouts.   I've got one such drive here.

--Chuck



On 12/14/18 9:46 PM, AJ Palmgren via cctalk wrote:
> For view or download:  http://bit.ly/2RZK28Q
> 
> I came across this, and noticed that this early of a DEI model was not yet
> archived at
> 
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dei
> 
> I'm not sure that it is scanned to the requirements of bitsavers, but I
> don't have access to the original, so I offer this if it is usable or of
> interest to anyone here.
> 
> I'll probably also post it on one of my sites, at http://QICreader.com
> 
> I also just acquired this DEI 301034-2 QIC Tape Drive, and have begun to
> reverse-engineer it.
> https://ebay.to/2EjyxFn
> 
> Best always,

AW: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk]

Hi Rod,

take some microcontroller and some serial flash memory.

With best regards

Gerhard

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Im Auftrag von
cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org
Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Dezember 2018 19:00
An: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Betreff: cctalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 15

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Re: Looking for a home for most issues of BYTE Magazine

[John Klos via cctalk]

Thank you all for all of the interest. The first person who wrote me isn't 
far away at all and will give it a good home, so I'm going to go with him.


While I'm fetching those, I'm going to make a list of other older hardware 
for which I'd like to find homes, so I'll post about that, and possibly 
about other magazines, in a week or so.


Thanks!
John

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Serial flash has an endurance between 10K-100K writes per cell so I think
that would break down quickly. Wear-leveling on a serial device would be
very slow...

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 3:33 PM Gerhard Kreuzer via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote:

> Hi Rod,
>
> take some microcontroller and some serial flash memory.
>
> With best regards
>
> Gerhard
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Im Auftrag von
> cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org
> Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Dezember 2018 19:00
> An: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Betreff: cctalk Digest, Vol 51, Issue 15
>
> Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
> cctalk@classiccmp.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> cctalk-ow...@classiccmp.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."
>
>

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 12/15/2018 02:45 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Serial flash has an endurance between 10K-100K writes per cell so I think
that would break down quickly. Wear-leveling on a serial device would be
very slow...


If you intend to use it as main core memory on an old CPU, 
it will perform VERY poorly, as these memories need to erase 
a page at a time, and the erase takes milliseconds.  So, 
writing ONE SINGLE word at a time would invoke an erase 
cycle each time, slowing it to 1/1000 or worse the speed of 
the original core memory.  Also, most old CPUs have the 
memory timing built into the CPU, and can't handle a memory 
that says "wait".


Jon

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 12:51 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 12/15/2018 02:45 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
>> Serial flash has an endurance between 10K-100K writes per cell so I think
>> that would break down quickly. Wear-leveling on a serial device would be
>> very slow...
>> 
>> 
> If you intend to use it as main core memory on an old CPU, it will perform 
> VERY poorly, as these memories need to erase a page at a time, and the erase 
> takes milliseconds.  So, writing ONE SINGLE word at a time would invoke an 
> erase cycle each time, slowing it to 1/1000 or worse the speed of the 
> original core memory.  Also, most old CPUs have the memory timing built into 
> the CPU, and can't handle a memory that says "wait”.

Anything FLASH related is quickly going to have issues because of the limited 
write endurance (1000s of cycles only).  It’s one of the issues that I’m facing 
with the disk emulators that I’m (trying to) work on.  But it works better 
there because of the block nature of disks (and I’m using a larger FLASH than 
necessary to allow for wear leveling plus some really heavy duty error 
correction…had to refresh myself on error coding theory again).

For core replacements, as I’ve said previously, I prefer MRAM.  They’re as fast 
as SRAM (35-55ns) with unlimited write endurance, 10+ year data retention and 
non-volitive (implied by the data retention).  Other than the 3.3v interfaces 
(and SMT…but almost everything is SMT these days) they’re ideal.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 1:51 PM Jon Elson via cctalk  On 12/15/2018 02:45 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> > Serial flash has an endurance between 10K-100K writes per cell so I think
> > that would break down quickly. Wear-leveling on a serial device would be
> > very slow...
> >
> >
> If you intend to use it as main core memory on an old CPU,
> it will perform VERY poorly, as these memories need to erase
> a page at a time, and the erase takes milliseconds.  So,
> writing ONE SINGLE word at a time would invoke an erase
> cycle each time, slowing it to 1/1000 or worse the speed of
> the original core memory.  Also, most old CPUs have the
> memory timing built into the CPU, and can't handle a memory
> that says "wait".
>

If you paired it with a microcontroller, you might be able to implement a
log device and then manage to logical to physical translation ala FTLs in
SSD land... but it would be ugly as heck and you'd still have the stall to
worry about when you got to the end of the erase block... better
performance, but maybe beyond a cheap uc...

Warner

>

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 1:18 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 1:51 PM Jon Elson via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/15/2018 02:45 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
>>> Serial flash has an endurance between 10K-100K writes per cell so I think
>>> that would break down quickly. Wear-leveling on a serial device would be
>>> very slow...
>>> 
>>> 
>> If you intend to use it as main core memory on an old CPU,
>> it will perform VERY poorly, as these memories need to erase
>> a page at a time, and the erase takes milliseconds.  So,
>> writing ONE SINGLE word at a time would invoke an erase
>> cycle each time, slowing it to 1/1000 or worse the speed of
>> the original core memory.  Also, most old CPUs have the
>> memory timing built into the CPU, and can't handle a memory
>> that says "wait".
>> 
> 
> If you paired it with a microcontroller, you might be able to implement a
> log device and then manage to logical to physical translation ala FTLs in
> SSD land... but it would be ugly as heck and you'd still have the stall to
> worry about when you got to the end of the erase block... better
> performance, but maybe beyond a cheap uc…

And my question is why go through all of that pain when an FRAM or MRAM
device can do this with no hackery?

What you’re describing is the very definition of an “impedance mismatch”.
You’re trying to use a block oriented device as a byte device and attempting
to paper over the differences.  I think the end result would be less than
satisfactory in almost every measurable dimension.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 2:25 PM Guy Sotomayor Jr 
> > On Dec 15, 2018, at 1:18 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 1:51 PM Jon Elson via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/15/2018 02:45 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> >>> Serial flash has an endurance between 10K-100K writes per cell so I
> think
> >>> that would break down quickly. Wear-leveling on a serial device would
> be
> >>> very slow...
> >>>
> >>>
> >> If you intend to use it as main core memory on an old CPU,
> >> it will perform VERY poorly, as these memories need to erase
> >> a page at a time, and the erase takes milliseconds.  So,
> >> writing ONE SINGLE word at a time would invoke an erase
> >> cycle each time, slowing it to 1/1000 or worse the speed of
> >> the original core memory.  Also, most old CPUs have the
> >> memory timing built into the CPU, and can't handle a memory
> >> that says "wait".
> >>
> >
> > If you paired it with a microcontroller, you might be able to implement a
> > log device and then manage to logical to physical translation ala FTLs in
> > SSD land... but it would be ugly as heck and you'd still have the stall
> to
> > worry about when you got to the end of the erase block... better
> > performance, but maybe beyond a cheap uc…
>
> And my question is why go through all of that pain when an FRAM or MRAM
> device can do this with no hackery?
>
> What you’re describing is the very definition of an “impedance mismatch”.
> You’re trying to use a block oriented device as a byte device and
> attempting
> to paper over the differences.  I think the end result would be less than
> satisfactory in almost every measurable dimension.
>

True. Lessening the pain still doesn't make it right :). MRAM or FRAM does
sound a lot simpler to use...

Warner

>

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 12/15/18 1:30 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

> True. Lessening the pain still doesn't make it right :). MRAM or FRAM does
> sound a lot simpler to use...

How about nvRAM?  Faster, with high capacity.   Stores into flash
(every CMOS RAM cell is paired with a flash cell) when the supply drops
below a certain level; restores data to RAM upon power-up.

http://www.cypress.com/products/nvsram-nonvolatile-sram

--Chuck

Christmas came early...

[William Sudbrink via cctalk]

In the form of an estate sale.  The first in a long while where I found 
anything interesting.  In addition to buying a large box of 7400 and 4000 
series chips, all with 1970's date codes, I got two vintage keyboards:

http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/kb_pics/20181215_162104.jpg

http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/kb_pics/20181215_162139.jpg

The estate sale employees have no idea where the associated systems (if any) 
are.  They did not see them during the sale preparation and have not sold them. 
 I also got a manual and set of 8 inch floppies for "Unicorn Systems Software 
Tools For CP/M".  Twenty floppies, all with factory labels, various libraries, 
utilities and documentation files.  I have not made a careful study of them yet 
(I just got home with them an hour ago).

Bill S.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Christmas came early...

[Santo Nucifora via cctalk]

Hi Bill,

They are both great looking period keyboards but I do particularly love the
George Risk keyboard.  It might not be a model 756 but I do have some
documentation and hopefully it can help.  Check
http://vintagecomputer.ca/files/George%20Risk%20Industries/



On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 5:34 PM William Sudbrink via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> In the form of an estate sale.  The first in a long while where I found
> anything interesting.  In addition to buying a large box of 7400 and 4000
> series chips, all with 1970's date codes, I got two vintage keyboards:
>
> http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/kb_pics/20181215_162104.jpg
>
> http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/kb_pics/20181215_162139.jpg
>
> The estate sale employees have no idea where the associated systems (if
> any) are.  They did not see them during the sale preparation and have not
> sold them.  I also got a manual and set of 8 inch floppies for "Unicorn
> Systems Software Tools For CP/M".  Twenty floppies, all with factory
> labels, various libraries, utilities and documentation files.  I have not
> made a careful study of them yet (I just got home with them an hour ago).
>
> Bill S.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>

RE: Christmas came early...

[William Sudbrink via cctalk]

Thanks for the link.  I just opened both of them (I didn’t take pictures, maybe 
later).  The GRI is a factory 753.  It is spotless inside, wired per spec.  I 
made a 753 work-alike for my IMSAI with the Processor Technology Subsystem B 
board set:

 

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/VCF-East2009/IMG_0561-L.jpg

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/VCF-East2009/IMG_0562-L.jpg

 

I can’t wait to check it out and replace my Frankenstein keyboard with it.

 

The other keyboard contains a “Cherry 026-0738 Art Rev. C” keyboard unit.  It 
also has “001-1085” on the board. The board has three ICs “dead bugged” on the 
back of it with “white wires” running all around, including to the I/O edge 
connector.  I’m not familiar with this unit, I’m starting to look for 
schematics now.

 

Bill S.

 

 

From: Santo Nucifora [mailto:santo.nucif...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 5:57 PM
To: William Sudbrink; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Christmas came early...

 

Hi Bill,

 

They are both great looking period keyboards but I do particularly love the 
George Risk keyboard.  It might not be a model 756 but I do have some 
documentation and hopefully it can help.  Check 
http://vintagecomputer.ca/files/George%20Risk%20Industries/

 

 

 

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 5:34 PM William Sudbrink via cctalk 
 wrote:

In the form of an estate sale.  The first in a long while where I found 
anything interesting.  In addition to buying a large box of 7400 and 4000 
series chips, all with 1970's date codes, I got two vintage keyboards:

http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/kb_pics/20181215_162104.jpg

http://wsudbrink.dyndns.org:8080/images/kb_pics/20181215_162139.jpg

The estate sale employees have no idea where the associated systems (if any) 
are.  They did not see them during the sale preparation and have not sold them. 
 I also got a manual and set of 8 inch floppies for "Unicorn Systems Software 
Tools For CP/M".  Twenty floppies, all with factory labels, various libraries, 
utilities and documentation files.  I have not made a careful study of them yet 
(I just got home with them an hour ago).

Bill S.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

flashx20 - Floppy and screen for the Epson HX-20

[Norbert Kehrer via cctalk]

Hi,

the Epson HX-20 handheld computer offered an interesting way to connect 
it with peripheral devices. The serial port at the back of the computer 
can talk to external hardware using an Epson-specific protocol for data 
exchange. As this protocol is quite well documented, I wrote a little 
program called "flashx20" (for FLoppy And Screen for the HX-20), which 
allows to connect a normal Windows PC or notebook computer to the HX-20, 
where the PC interprets the Epson serial protocol and simulates an 
external display controller and four external floppy disk drives (like 
e.g. the Epson TF-20).


With that, you get a big screen (the PC monitor) and disk space for 
programs and data on the PC's hard disk, which can then also be used for 
data and program exchange.


You can read more about it and download the program from my website at 
http://members.aon.at/nkehrer/


Norbert

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 11:55 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 12/15/18 10:01 AM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
> > FRAM or MRAM.  I make extensive use of them in my projects.
> >
> > Everspin has a few (all SMT and 3.3v).  As I recall they run ~$20/ea for
> 4Mb (512K x 8 or 256K x 16).
>
> As neither MRAM nor FRAM requires a write-after-read refresh, I fail to
> see the "realism" in this that couldn't be satisfied with simple
> battery-backed RAM or even flash-backed RAM.
>

FRAM requires write-after-read refresh, but it's done internally to the
part. That's why FRAM has limited read endurance; each read also does a
write.  FRAM endurance is typically 10^14 cycles (check the datasheet of a
specific part), which is adequate for most uses.

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 6:15 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk 
wrote:

> All very interesting.. 1201 alarm while I deal will all of the information
> Rod
>
>

1202 coming up...

I don't know specifically about the various memory types being bandied
about, but I do know that the destructive read behavior of core memory my
be required for some architectures; "load and clear" type instructions rely
on the suppressing the write-after-read cycle to make the instruction
atomic, allowing the implementation of data locking instructions. For some
architectures,  it may be that any replacement memory would have to support
the suppression signal to work correctly.

-- Charles

Re: flashx20 - Floppy and screen for the Epson HX-20

[Jason T via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 5:47 PM Norbert Kehrer via cctalk
 wrote:

> With that, you get a big screen (the PC monitor) and disk space for
> programs and data on the PC's hard disk, which can then also be used for
> data and program exchange.

This is great - thank you for writing it!  I have at least one HX-20.
IIRC it was used for Motorola radio programming and had custom ROMS.

Do you know what other Epson portables (if any) used the same protocol?

Re: flashx20 - Floppy and screen for the Epson HX-20

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 5:47 PM Norbert Kehrer via cctalk
 wrote:

With that, you get a big screen (the PC monitor) and disk space for
programs and data on the PC's hard disk, which can then also be used for
data and program exchange.


On Sun, 16 Dec 2018, Jason T via cctalk wrote:

This is great - thank you for writing it!  I have at least one HX-20.
IIRC it was used for Motorola radio programming and had custom ROMS.
Do you know what other Epson portables (if any) used the same protocol?


The Epson HC-20 probably did.
It was essentially the same machine, in silver-grey, instead of beige, 
with both English and katakana keyboard and character generator ROMs.

8-Update

[Rod G8DGR via cctalk]

Sheesh!! 
Well what a response. 
This stems from my (so far) successful major over haul of my PDP-8/e.
I found one failed 7474 and one failed 8881 – replaced and now working.
I think I have the rim loader toggled in and will attempt to send a paper tape 
image from Hyperterm
Strangely I do have at least three genuine complete 4k memory sets.

The eightstoration will continue.

However I began to think would it be possible to create a close copy of an  8/e 
out of  modern parts.
As you all know I make front panels so that’s not a problem. 
I did manage to copy my (distorted) bezel in resin.
A friend has been able to 3D print toggle switch leavers that fit and work.
Vince Sylngstat has done a console board PCB  layout.
Power supply clearly not a problem.
So what’s left? Case?  
Well I have one of those and I suspect a sheet metal shop would not have a 
problem

Finally the big one – Omnibus and the connectors its made from. A 3D printing 
candidate?
I’m going to autopsy a busted connector and see how they are constructed inside.

Objectives
The basic board set as original. M8300, M8310, M8320 etc.
Same form factor
Plug compatible – but board contents can differ from original

The idea is replace one item at time until you no longer have any DEC parts.
Yup a FAKE-8

I may even need a label “No part in this PDP-8/e computer was manufactured by 
digital equipment corporation”

Rod Smallwood
digital equipment corporation  1975-1985




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