Re: eBay sellers
On 4/13/21 5:29 PM, William Donzelli wrote: Certainly. Citations. Passing a URL through the Ebay system is trickly, to say the least, but leave an obvious pointer, like "Check this document 123-456-78 in bitsavers, page 26". Thank you for the tips. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: eBay sellers
On 4/13/2021 5:04 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote: You probably already did it in your initial contact with him Noel, but I would think the thing that would make it stand out and make him change it - tell him a PC05 doesn't connect to a PDP8, it goes with something completely different (a PDP11 ofc, correct?). Given that the title says its for a pdp8 (it isn't if it's a PC05) I bet the seller would lose a 'not as advertised' battle pretty quickly. J I figure they throw in about every keyword they can. Some take some time to try, but a lot will throw in keywords to catch searches or watch lists. Some will throw in PDP with S-100 and heaven knows what else. I've gotten good replies for the last few years when I bother. Sometimes will provide links or other auctions to help them. There was one guy with an id "vintage" something or other (no idea if the current guys on ebay are them) but I got a psychotic full length rant that made me wonder whether the guy was deranged. I never send suggestions on anything then bid, so he didn't have that excuse. Unfortunately he had a lot of stuff, but I blocked him off after that. He said he reported me to ebay, so I opened an incident an sent his deranged rant. If he did, nothing came of it that I heard. No hostile sellers since. I know a friend who sells on epay a lot an has had some fraud. One has to continuously tune to avoid being screwed by ebay or the buyers that are dishonest. Makes it complicated for those of us who will make the buyer's whole as far as the agreed upon deal. Jim
Re: eBay sellers
On 4/13/21 5:51 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: He had the Teletype listed as a ksr, despite the reader right there in the picture. My concern as a buyer is when there is a discrepancy, picture, vs listing, I have no way of telling which is correct and incorrect. If the picture is of the item and that's what I want cool. But if the description is correct and I buy based on the picture I'm going to be less than happy. I think the discrepancy is the biggest issue for me. What am I comfortable doing when there is a discrepancy. Frequently, I end up moving on to a different auction. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
RE: eBay sellers
You probably already did it in your initial contact with him Noel, but I would think the thing that would make it stand out and make him change it - tell him a PC05 doesn't connect to a PDP8, it goes with something completely different (a PDP11 ofc, correct?). Given that the title says its for a pdp8 (it isn't if it's a PC05) I bet the seller would lose a 'not as advertised' battle pretty quickly. J
RE: eBay sellers
> The Ebay judge might go either way. Nope. The seller will lose. > > SNAD gets abused more than you realize. It is a big problem for > sellers. Well when the attitude is "just let things fly" I am not sure if there is any abuse going on... -Ali
Re: eBay sellers
On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 6:15 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > I'm slightly amazed at how some eBay sellers react. Take this item: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/154404969351 > > which the seller had listed as a 'PDP-8 PC05'. I sent the person a message > pointing out that it was a PC04 (as shown by the 4 rocker switches, and the > small backplane - PC05's have a larger one to hold more cards). > > They sent a nice peply, but didn't alter their listing! > > Well, I hope the bider really is a PDP-8 owner who wants a PC04... :-) > > Noel > Noel, I went to this guys place and saw the tape reader first hand. Its in better condition than mine. I was tempted to buy it but I was there to pick up an asr 33 teletype I bought from him on ebay. He had the Teletype listed as a ksr, despite the reader right there in the picture. I did not feel obligated to tell him, I just bought it. He clearly and correctly documented the mechanical issue with it, despite getting the name of it wrong. I fixed it this morning before work (related to my cctec post about separating the keyboard from the printer) I'd trust him with this reader and the price is reasonable, assuming it works. He is a general machine repair man, not specifically familiar with computers. I suppose he was not overly interested in exactly what he was selling, assuming the buyer should know. His garage workshop is like a museum. He has a lot of boat motors and interesting gizmos hanging from the ceiling and on shelves. He has a pdp 8e there too. After picking up the Teletype Karen and I went tothe Rhode Island Computer Museum and stayed in Newport for the night. The RICM is chuck full of cool stuff, warehouse style. Bill >
RE: eBay sellers
> > And that is why there are SNADs! :D > > "Systems Network Architecture Distribution Services" ? :) Significantly Not As Described -Ali
Re: eBay sellers
> So ... you trust us enough to take our money, but you don't trust us. The percentage of crooked and dishonest (and just plain stupid) buyers on Ebay is far too uncomfortable. Ebay buyers generally often liken themselves to gleaming polished white marble pillars of truth and justice in the online market. They are not. Ebay does not provide much protection anymore. Sellers must protect themselves. > How does the intention behind the message alter the veracity of the message? We don't know - it is generally a case by case thing. Sometimes fraud is *really* obvious, like when a buyer sends a correction that is clearly wrong, and literally states that the asking price is too high because of the "mistake". > Do you put any comments on the listing of "this description is best > effort" or "buyer is responsible for accuracy"? Do you think anyone reads Terms of Sale? Seriously? Hell, I get buyers that don't even read the descriptions! > What constitutes "a bunch of research time"? 1 minute? 5 minutes? > More time than it took to publish the listing? Maybe. Some of us are very busy, and need every 10 minute chunk of time. Perhaps the ten minutes taken up doing research is not worth as much as those same ten minutes listing another item. > Is there something that random people submitting corrections can do to > make it easier for you such that you are more likely to accept the > correction and update the listing accordingly? Certainly. Citations. Passing a URL through the Ebay system is trickly, to say the least, but leave an obvious pointer, like "Check this document 123-456-78 in bitsavers, page 26". -- Will
Re: eBay sellers
> And that is why there are SNADs! :D Yes, but remember that the S stands for "Significantly". In Noel's case, yes, We DECnerds would call that a significant difference, but probably not to the general computer techie crowd - they would likely see two almostly completely identical tape readers. The Ebay judge might go either way. SNAD gets abused more than you realize. It is a big problem for sellers. -- Will
Re: eBay sellers
On 4/13/21 4:49 PM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: We don't trust you buyers. So ... you trust us enough to take our money, but you don't trust us. Sellers of collectibles and antiques get bombarded with nitpicks and corrections. Often these are right, but often they are wrong. I guess that's unsurprising. And sometimes it is very clearly intended to lessen the value of the thing being sold. How does the intention behind the message alter the veracity of the message? So unless it is something that can easily and quickly be researched and confirmed - we sellers will mostly just let things fly, and let the buyers figure it out. That seems tantamount to selling something that you have good / reasonable reason to question the accuracy of the listing. This seems disingenuous to me. Do you put any comments on the listing of "this description is best effort" or "buyer is responsible for accuracy"? That being said, if I was the seller of this item and you, Noel, sent me a comment like this, I would think "Oh, it's Noel, he knows his stuff. I will deal with this". But if someone I do not know did the same, I would maybe send a thank you note, think about it for a minute or so to see if investing a bunch of research time is worth it, and likely do nothing. Let the buyers figure it out. What constitutes "a bunch of research time"? 1 minute? 5 minutes? More time than it took to publish the listing? Is there something that random people submitting corrections can do to make it easier for you such that you are more likely to accept the correction and update the listing accordingly? -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: eBay sellers
> And that is why there are SNADs! :D "Systems Network Architecture Distribution Services" ? :) De
RE: eBay sellers
> researched and confirmed - we sellers will mostly just let things fly, > and let the buyers figure it out. And that is why there are SNADs! :D -Ali
Re: eBay sellers
As a very experienced Ebay (and now Etsy!) seller, I can say this... > They sent a nice peply, but didn't alter their listing! We don't trust you buyers. Sellers of collectibles and antiques get bombarded with nitpicks and corrections. Often these are right, but often they are wrong. And sometimes it is very clearly intended to lessen the value of the thing being sold. So unless it is something that can easily and quickly be researched and confirmed - we sellers will mostly just let things fly, and let the buyers figure it out. That being said, if I was the seller of this item and you, Noel, sent me a comment like this, I would think "Oh, it's Noel, he knows his stuff. I will deal with this". But if someone I do not know did the same, I would maybe send a thank you note, think about it for a minute or so to see if investing a bunch of research time is worth it, and likely do nothing. Let the buyers figure it out. -- Will
Re: eBay sellers
On 4/13/21 4:15 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: They sent a nice peply, but didn't alter their listing! I've had similar things happen multiple times. I've also reported some of those auctions to eBay as misinformation. Though it's been years since I've done so. I don't know if it's possible, much less convenient to do so now. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: eBay sellers
On 2021-04-13 18:15, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: I'm slightly amazed at how some eBay sellers react. Take this item: https://www.ebay.com/itm/154404969351 which the seller had listed as a 'PDP-8 PC05'. I sent the person a message pointing out that it was a PC04 (as shown by the 4 rocker switches, and the small backplane - PC05's have a larger one to hold more cards). They sent a nice peply, but didn't alter their listing! No surprise there. I recall a seller selling a 6 GHz SPARC box (or somesuch ridiculous frequency). The chip's rev number was 6. I pointed this out with the same reply and inaction. N. Well, I hope the bider really is a PDP-8 owner who wants a PC04... :-) Noel
eBay sellers
I'm slightly amazed at how some eBay sellers react. Take this item: https://www.ebay.com/itm/154404969351 which the seller had listed as a 'PDP-8 PC05'. I sent the person a message pointing out that it was a PC04 (as shown by the 4 rocker switches, and the small backplane - PC05's have a larger one to hold more cards). They sent a nice peply, but didn't alter their listing! Well, I hope the bider really is a PDP-8 owner who wants a PC04... :-) Noel
Re: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard
Bill, Misprinted characters could also come from a shoe not set properly on a rail, or the print head needing oiling. I had both problems on mine. I think it’s this video here https://youtu.be/x_Di7KpHubc . You need to remove the carriage, which can be done without removing the printer. Also the H piece is a pain in the arse. Note that there is a direction to it, it’s not symmetric. Pay attention of which direction the long side is when you remove it, and make sure to put it back the same way. Also one of the side plates in between which the H is held has a spring, the other does not. To get it out (and back in), you want to push the H and compress that spring, using a long screwdriver in the slot of the H made just for that. Should be easy enough. Putting it back is the tough part. I eventually was able to do it in seconds using a long pair of forceps to hold the H in the correct position, and the aforementioned long screwdriver to do the pushing. With screwdriver alone it’s possible but very frustrating and takes many trials. Marc > On Apr 13, 2021, at 4:41 AM, Bill Degnan via cctech > wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 2:19 AM steven--- via cctech > wrote: > >> Bill said >>> I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer >>> from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33. I need to get to the underside of >>> the printer levers so I can re-align them. I am getting incorrect >>> characters when I type over half of the keys. I can see that a few >> levers >>> are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them >>> properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to >>> the underside. I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that >>> connects the keyboard to the printer. >> >> This video, Part 2 of a series by Jerry Walker seems to cover removing the >> keyboard >> from the printer pretty thoroughly, including how to take out the H piece: >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VoPIp_wd4 >> >> Also I think Marc's videos cover it too. >> >> Steve. >> > > Thanks. I watched Marc's videos to understand how to fix after removing > the keyboard. > > Part 2 of Jerry Walker's set does have useful info. Thanks for saving me > some reasearch time. > > Bill > >>
Re: Anyone know ancient versions of XLC?
On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 8:14 AM Liam Proven via cctech < cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 at 19:46, David Schmidt via cctech > wrote: > > > > AIX 3.2.5 was so much leaner and meaner than 4.x that came along next... > > I never did warm up to it the same way. > > Twas ever thus, no? > > I remember an ad campaign for AIX when it was quite new... "We took > UNIX and added millions of lines of code to it." (Or words to that > effect.) To me and to a lot of other people, this did not sound like a > good thing... > Linux tends to churn that amount of code in a release. I find it interesting how large systemd has become as well: https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/06/linux_2020_kernel_systemd_code/ The rate of change to Linux literally keeps me up at night during incidents.. but attempting to tame this for an enterprise also pays the bills.. I find it peculiar so many people are ok with this model of computing but the jobs are good for the time being. > -- > Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 >
Re: Anyone know ancient versions of XLC?
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 15:10, David Schmidt via cctech wrote: > > On 4/12/21 1:00 PM, Liam Proven wrote: > >> AIX 3.2.5 was so much leaner and meaner than 4.x that came along next... > >> I never did warm up to it the same way. > > > > Twas ever thus, no? > > A universal truth. > > > I remember an ad campaign for AIX when it was quite new... "We took > > UNIX and added millions of lines of code to it." (Or words to that > > effect.) To me and to a lot of other people, this did not sound like a > > good thing... > > The ad campaign I remember was "A disciplined merge of System V and BSD" > > This looks relevant, from 1989: > https://technologists.com/sauer/Convergence_of_AIX_and_4.3BSD.pdf Thanks for that! I only ever worked with AIX in my first job -- 1988-1990. Never saw it again. I wish I'd learned a bit more now... -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard
On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 2:19 AM steven--- via cctech wrote: > Bill said > > I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer > > from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33. I need to get to the underside of > > the printer levers so I can re-align them. I am getting incorrect > > characters when I type over half of the keys. I can see that a few > levers > > are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them > > properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to > > the underside. I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that > > connects the keyboard to the printer. > > This video, Part 2 of a series by Jerry Walker seems to cover removing the > keyboard > from the printer pretty thoroughly, including how to take out the H piece: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VoPIp_wd4 > > Also I think Marc's videos cover it too. > > Steve. > Thanks. I watched Marc's videos to understand how to fix after removing the keyboard. Part 2 of Jerry Walker's set does have useful info. Thanks for saving me some reasearch time. Bill >
Re: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard
Didn't curiousmarc on youtube posted a whole series about repairing and resotring one? Em 12/04/2021 21:24, Bill Degnan via cctech escreveu: I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33. I need to get to the underside of the printer levers so I can re-align them. I am getting incorrect characters when I type over half of the keys. I can see that a few levers are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to the underside. I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that connects the keyboard to the printer. Thanks Bill . -- ---8<---Corte Aqui---8<--- https://www.tabalabs.com.br https://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com
Re: Anyone know ancient versions of XLC?
On 4/12/21 1:00 PM, Liam Proven wrote: AIX 3.2.5 was so much leaner and meaner than 4.x that came along next... I never did warm up to it the same way. Twas ever thus, no? A universal truth. I remember an ad campaign for AIX when it was quite new... "We took UNIX and added millions of lines of code to it." (Or words to that effect.) To me and to a lot of other people, this did not sound like a good thing... The ad campaign I remember was "A disciplined merge of System V and BSD" This looks relevant, from 1989: https://technologists.com/sauer/Convergence_of_AIX_and_4.3BSD.pdf
RE: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard
Correction, 10 Parts Don Resor N6KAW -Original Message- From: cctech On Behalf Of D. Resor via cctech Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 10:08 PM To: 'Bill Degnan' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard This might be a start https://www.soemtron.org/teletypemanuals.html Here also is a restoration set of videos It seems there are eight parts and this was uploaded recently. ASR33 Restoration https://youtu.be/pEzpYHb4p5w Don Resor N6KAW -Original Message- From: cctech On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via cctech Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 5:24 PM To: cctech Subject: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33. I need to get to the underside of the printer levers so I can re-align them. I am getting incorrect characters when I type over half of the keys. I can see that a few levers are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to the underside. I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that connects the keyboard to the printer. Thanks Bill
RE: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard
This might be a start https://www.soemtron.org/teletypemanuals.html Here also is a restoration set of videos It seems there are eight parts and this was uploaded recently. ASR33 Restoration https://youtu.be/pEzpYHb4p5w Don Resor N6KAW -Original Message- From: cctech On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via cctech Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 5:24 PM To: cctech Subject: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33. I need to get to the underside of the printer levers so I can re-align them. I am getting incorrect characters when I type over half of the keys. I can see that a few levers are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to the underside. I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that connects the keyboard to the printer. Thanks Bill
Re: Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard
Bill said > I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer > from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33. I need to get to the underside of > the printer levers so I can re-align them. I am getting incorrect > characters when I type over half of the keys. I can see that a few levers > are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them > properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to > the underside. I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that > connects the keyboard to the printer. This video, Part 2 of a series by Jerry Walker seems to cover removing the keyboard from the printer pretty thoroughly, including how to take out the H piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VoPIp_wd4 Also I think Marc's videos cover it too. Steve.
Looking for video (or photos) depicting how to remove ASR 33 printer from keyboard
I am looking for a video or photos that show how one removes the printer from the keyboard safely on an ASR 33. I need to get to the underside of the printer levers so I can re-align them. I am getting incorrect characters when I type over half of the keys. I can see that a few levers are out of whack or not seated correctly but I believe to get to them properly I need to put the printer on its side or under a lift to get to the underside. I am nervous about detaching the "H" shaped gizmo that connects the keyboard to the printer. Thanks Bill
