Re: 370 control panel
> On Dec 8, 2021, at 10:20 AM, David Wade via cctech > wrote: > > Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% > for credit card > .. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF > ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING" > > Give me EPAY any day > > Dave Personally I’d be more concerned with this… "SHIPPING IS ONLY WITH PRIOR ARRANGEMENT WITH AUCTION COMPANY ON SMALL ITEMS. PLEASE CALL 814-341-” (Note, I blanked out part of the phone number). With that, this might be a good deal for someone that can pick it up locally. Zane
Re: DEC AF01, open for offers
Whoops, should have been off list... On 12/8/2021 10:48 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote: Do you have more info on it? I can't find much on-line. Is is a stand alone box or board set? I love A/D and D/A stuff so would be very interested. I have many PDP-8's, a PDP-12 and LINC-8. Any idea on how much you want for it? Thanks! Bob On 12/8/2021 4:11 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Would anyone like to make an offer on this AF01? It's a multi-channel A/D converter for old pdp8 and pdp12's. I really don't think I need it, I just pulled it out of my closet, and I don't want to put it back in. Copy me off list. Complete, multiple MUX channels (16 A121's) the A704 and the op amp (A200) -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org
NI PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer boards on ebay
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_ssn=techparts2020&_nkw=%22PCI-GPIB%2B%22 NI National Instruments PCI-GPIB+ Analyzer PCI IEEE488.2 Interface Card (~USD140) Ebay item # 284088568161 Copyright 1998 183619B-01 284088565868 Copyright 2001 183619C-01 284088570014 Copyright 2005 ASSY192125D-01 While a photo shows the Windows NI Analyzer software in use, the item doesn't mention it. If NI will provide the analyzer software, these could be used to capture HP-IB traffic to characterize the attached devices, timings etc. The HPDrive project mentions the analyzer cards as being supported https://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/#hpdrive
Re: DEC AF01, open for offers
Do you have more info on it? I can't find much on-line. Is is a stand alone box or board set? I love A/D and D/A stuff so would be very interested. I have many PDP-8's, a PDP-12 and LINC-8. Any idea on how much you want for it? Thanks! Bob On 12/8/2021 4:11 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Would anyone like to make an offer on this AF01? It's a multi-channel A/D converter for old pdp8 and pdp12's. I really don't think I need it, I just pulled it out of my closet, and I don't want to put it back in. Copy me off list. Complete, multiple MUX channels (16 A121's) the A704 and the op amp (A200) -- Vintage computers and electronics www.dvq.com www.tekmuseum.com www.decmuseum.org
Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > > I have a variac rated at 2.5A. I am not quite sure whether that would be > > sufficient to test the bricks individually. Otherwise, I guess one of these > > would do the trick https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer- > > 250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer ? > > So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I > am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at > what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? > https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer Most Variacs do not provide isolation between the input and output, that is they are variable _autotransformers_. So if you use one to test a power brick, the latter is directly connected to the mains supply. Connecting an earthed 'scope to any point in said power brick will then blow fuses at least. Touching any point in the power brick could give you a nasty shock. The power bricks draw very little current with no load on the output and 2.5A would be fine to power one up. Most, if not all, of the power bricks start by rectifying and smoothing the AC input. As a result they will run off a DC input too. You can test them using a bench supply, normally do. One final thing. Do not, (as I did when younger and even more foolish) disable the over-current trip in a power brick. If the crowbar operates, you will end up with transistors blown off the PCB. -tony
RE: PDP-11/70 Boards
> On 12/08/2021 5:14 PM Rob Jarratt wrote: > > > The problem is that it isn't marked with a wattage, just a current, which > left me wondering at what voltage. Although Will Cooke's response seems to be > that the voltage doesn't matter, so at 240VAC it would be 600W. Can that be > right? My previous response was a bit misleading and not completely accurate. Sorry. I was trying to rush out the door. Variacs are rated for max current. In the stated case, 2.5 amps. They can provide that current at any output voltage. So, the maximum wattage (actually volts-amps, which is a bit different) will be 2.5 amps * highest output voltage. (Some are possibly rated at for that current when the output voltage does not exceed the input. They can usually go higher than the input by 20% or so) They can provide that same current at any voltage UP TO that max output voltage. In theory, they could provide higher current at lower output voltages. The magnetic flux is proportional to current times turns (of wire on the core.) A lower output voltage implies fewer turns. BUT, the rest of the transformer is not designed for that higher current. So it is a bad idea to try to pull more than the rated current. However, pulling that rated current at any output voltage up to the input voltage is fine. You can get a pretty good idea how much power a variac (or any transformer) can handle by its weight and size. The 3 amp variable transformer I have on my bench weighs about 25 pounds. It is a 120V input so that is about 360 volt-amps. One that can handle 600 volt-amps will weight around twice as much (the relationship isn't linear, though.) Why do I keep saying volt-amps instead of Watts? Watts are actual power. Volt-amps are apparent power. If there are capacitors or inductors in the circuit the current and voltage will be out of phase. That phase change means the current and voltage won't peak at the same time and therefore the actual amount of power used will be less than it "appears" by multiplying volts * amps. But the core and winding of the tranformer will still have to handle the apparent power, even though the actual power used is less. The actual power used is the apparent power times the cosine of the angular difference in phase. I'm not familiar with the DEC power supplies, but it is almost certain they have capacitor input power supplies. That means a phase change. That means, then, that your input supply will need to provide more apparent power than actual power used. A rough approximation is to double the input from what the supply outputs, assuming reasonable efficient supplies. So if one of those DEC supplies provides, say, 5 volts at 10 amps, that is 50 watts output. I would start with a variac (or whatever) that can supply 100 volt-amps at the input voltage. So, for 20V input it would need 5 amps. Will
Re: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 2:43 AM Jos Dreesen via cctalk
wrote:
> >Also, when the tapes arrive, are there recommendations in case their
> > drive belts are gone?
>
> You can 3D-print replacements.
> Use Innoflex filament, 100% fill-in and the following OpenScad formula :
>
> module ring(d1,d2,w)
> {
> difference()
> { cylinder( w, d1/2, d1/2, $fn=230);
> cylinder( w, d2/2, d2/2, $fn=230);
> }
> }
> ring(38.2,35,6); // TU60 Dectape-II
Cool. Thanks for sharing that!
> Already 2 TU60 have been repaired with the above.
TU60 are direct-drive digital cassettes.
https://www.pdp-11.nl/peripherals/tape/tu60-info.html
The TU58 uses DC100 cartridges.
http://www.hp9825.com/html/dc100_tape.html
I had a boss who recycled some DEC TU58 for our HP 4951A serial
analyzer. It can format cassettes, the TU58 cannot, so it's a
one-way-trip.
-ethan
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
Thanks Marc for these information. I will go study this from your link ;) Dominique On 9/12/2021 00:21, Curious Marc wrote: Dominique, Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR Matc On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote: The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send text in this monster through a computer Below is a link to a video of my machine in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80 Dominique On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: No, it's 5 bit tape. 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side). DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape. The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters. Those are upper/lower case. paul On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz wrote: I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot. On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote: 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model. The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. paul
DEC AF01, open for offers
Would anyone like to make an offer on this AF01? It's a multi-channel A/D converter for old pdp8 and pdp12's. I really don't think I need it, I just pulled it out of my closet, and I don't want to put it back in. Copy me off list. Complete, multiple MUX channels (16 A121's) the A704 and the op amp (A200)
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
On 12/8/21 6:21 PM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote: Dominique, Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR While I saw a number of them in Germany back in the 70's I was never lucky enough to have one. I did have a Lorenz LO-15 though and it was the first printer I had on my TRS-80. bill
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
Dominique, Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR Matc > On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk > wrote: > > The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only works > in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send text in this > monster through a computer > Below is a link to a video of my machine in action: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80 > > Dominique > >> On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> No, it's 5 bit tape. 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- >> top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left >> side). >> >> DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those >> appearing on punched tape. The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 >> channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines >> (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters. Those are >> upper/lower case. >> >>paul >> On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz wrote: >>> >>> I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 >>> bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs >>> upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I >>> guessed Baudot. >>> >>> On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote: 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model. The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. paul
Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
That would depend on the type and size of wire (solid core, stranded, strands of stranded, etc.). On 12/8/2021 5:06 PM, pbir...@gmail.com wrote: Seems to me that the actual coil resistance will limit the max-current at lower voltages. 20 A through wire sized for 1 A seems ... unlikely? -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Mike Katz via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:58 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; wrco...@wrcooke.net Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current" after all. If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at 100V. On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of)." Up to the current rating of the variac. When you draw more current than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag. On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v- 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer Thanks Rob JRJ As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of). Will "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." Richard Feynman
RE: PDP-11/70 Boards
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Mike Katz via > cctalk > Sent: 08 December 2021 22:58 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > ; wrco...@wrcooke.net > Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards > > More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current" > after all. > > If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at > 100V. The problem is that it isn't marked with a wattage, just a current, which left me wondering at what voltage. Although Will Cooke's response seems to be that the voltage doesn't matter, so at 240VAC it would be 600W. Can that be right? > > On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full > > rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A > > at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort > > of)." > > > > Up to the current rating of the variac. When you draw more current > > than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag. > > > > On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > >> > >>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk > >>> wrote: > >>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A > >>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at > >>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, > >>> would this do the trick? > >>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v- > >>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> Rob > >>> > >>> > > JRJ > >> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full > >> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 > >> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, > >> sort of). > >> > >> Will > >> > >> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change > >> that here and there." > >> Richard Feynman > >
RE: PDP-11/70 Boards
Variable transformers (generic. Variac is a trademarked brand of them) are rated in amps output, not in watts or, more accurately, volt-amps. That is because they are rated to deliver that current at ANY voltage. The main limiting factor is flux density in the core. The flux density is proportional to the current. So, the rated current (e.g. 2.5 amps in the original question) can be drawn at ANY output voltage without overloading the core. At 1V out, you get 2.5 volt-amps. At 120V out you get 300 volt-amps. The current is the same, so the IR (resistive) losses of voltage are the same. If you draw more current than the rated current, then the core will be overloaded. It will most likely overheat and will possibly be permanently damaged. In addition, the IR losses will increase, causing more overheating. > On 12/08/2021 5:06 PM pbir...@gmail.com wrote: > > > Seems to me that the actual coil resistance will limit the max-current at > lower voltages. 20 A through wire sized for 1 A seems ... unlikely? > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Mike Katz via cctalk > Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:58 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; > wrco...@wrcooke.net > Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards > > More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current" > after all. > > If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at > 100V. > > On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full > > rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A > > at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort > > of)." > > Up to the current rating of the variac. When you draw more current > > than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag. > > On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > > >>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk > >>> wrote: > >>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A > >>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at > >>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, > >>> would this do the trick? > >>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v- > >>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> Rob > >>> > >>> > > JRJ > >> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full > >> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 > >> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, > >> sort of). > >> > >> Will > >> > >> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change > >> that here and there." > >> Richard Feynman > > "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." Richard Feynman
RE: PDP-11/70 Boards
Seems to me that the actual coil resistance will limit the max-current at lower voltages. 20 A through wire sized for 1 A seems ... unlikely? -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Mike Katz via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:58 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; wrco...@wrcooke.net Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current" after all. If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at 100V. On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full > rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A > at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort > of)." > > Up to the current rating of the variac. When you draw more current > than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag. > > On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: >> >>> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A >>> be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at >>> 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, >>> would this do the trick? >>> https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v- >>> 2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> > JRJ >> As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full >> rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 >> A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, >> sort of). >> >> Will >> >> "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change >> that here and there." >> Richard Feynman >
Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
More accurately up to it's rated wattage "Power = Voltage * Current" after all. If you have a 100W max variac you can draw 20A @ 5V (approx) but only 1A at 100V. On 12/8/2021 4:44 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: "As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of)." Up to the current rating of the variac. When you draw more current than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag. On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer Thanks Rob JRJ As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of). Will "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." Richard Feynman
Re: PDP-11/70 Boards
"As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of)." Up to the current rating of the variac. When you draw more current than the transformer can deliver then the voltage will sag. On 12/8/2021 4:22 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer Thanks Rob JRJ As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of). Will "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." Richard Feynman
Re: RK11-C indicator panel inlays?
> From: Rod Smallwood > Let me see what artwork I have I'm curious as to what you'd be able to find. Like I said, I'm pretty sure DEC never did an RK11-C inlay; the engineering drawings for the 19" indicator panel (included in the RF11 engineering drawings: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RF11_EngrDrws_Oct70.pdf on pp. 187-188) list many inlays, but not an RK11 one. Also, I've looked through the RK11-C manual: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RK11-C_manual1971.pdf but it contains no mention of an indicator panel, which it surely would if there was one. > From: Henk Gooijen > I have *two* DX11 front panels with the 144 lamps & 4 'paddle' > connections boards. ... Given you have 144 lamps panel with the RK11-C > front, what would you do to light up the lamps? Uhhh... plug the paddle boards on the end of the flat cables from the indicator panel into the pre-wired slots in the RK11-C backplane (see the RK11-C engineering drawings: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/RK11-C_schemFeb1971.pdf pg. 36)? :-) Hence my comment that to make use of the _inlay_ I proposed to produce, one had to have an RK11-C _and_ a spare DEC indicator panel... Noel
RE: PDP-11/70 Boards
> On 12/08/2021 3:58 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I > am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at > what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? > https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer > > Thanks > > Rob > > > > > > > > JRJ As a general rule, a variable transformer (Variac) can provide full rated current at any output voltage. So a 2.5A unit can provide 2.5 A at 1V, 10V, 120V, etc. With a 20V output, that is 50 VA (Watts, sort of). Will "I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." Richard Feynman
RE: PDP-11/70 Boards
> > -Original Message- > > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger > > via cctalk > > Sent: 05 December 2021 14:51 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 Boards > > > > On 12/5/2021 3:37 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the tips. The transformer that drives the bricks is a real > > > beast. > > Did you find an alternative more convenient way to power them on the > > bench? > > > > > > > From the schematics, some of them seem to want 20-30 VAC (some, like > > at least one of the -15v regulators, take DC inputs from other > > regulators) > > > > For lower current initial testing I have some 24v 2A transformers > > lying around. For higher current, I might use something like this guy: > > > > https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/triad-magnetics/F- > > 401U/5032226 > > I have a variac rated at 2.5A. I am not quite sure whether that would be > sufficient to test the bricks individually. Otherwise, I guess one of these > would do the trick https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer- > 250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer ? So, to supply the bricks on the bench, would a variac rated at 2.5A be OK? I am not sure I know how much current the bricks will draw at 20VAC, and at what voltage the 2.5A rating is given. Otherwise, would this do the trick? https://cpc.farnell.com/block/steu250-48/transformer-250va-230-400v-2-x/dp/TF01418?st=24v%20transformer Thanks Rob > > > > > JRJ
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
correction old age, arthritic fingers and old age? On 12/8/2021 2:57 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: You are correct, I counted wrong. Can I chalk it up to old date and bad eyes? On 12/8/2021 1:52 PM, Paul Koning wrote: No, it's 5 bit tape. 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side). DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape. The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters. Those are upper/lower case. paul On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz wrote: I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot. On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote: 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model. The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. paul
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
You are correct, I counted wrong. Can I chalk it up to old date and bad eyes? On 12/8/2021 1:52 PM, Paul Koning wrote: No, it's 5 bit tape. 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side). DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape. The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters. Those are upper/lower case. paul On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz wrote: I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot. On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote: 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model. The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. paul
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send text in this monster through a computer Below is a link to a video of my machine in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80 Dominique On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: No, it's 5 bit tape. 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side). DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape. The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters. Those are upper/lower case. paul On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz wrote: I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot. On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote: 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model. The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. paul
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
On 2021-12-08 11:50 a.m., Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote: I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand. I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it. Here is my photo of it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing I'm near Houston Texas. It is too big and heavy to ship. Monty McGraw It is not too heavy to ship, just to heavy to move out of the basement. :) What we need is a some guy able to drive around, and pack and ship all the un-ship able products. Ben.
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
No, it's 5 bit tape. 2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side). DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those appearing on punched tape. The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters. Those are upper/lower case. paul > On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz wrote: > > I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits > across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper > case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed > Baudot. > > On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote: >> 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. >> >> That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch >> Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures >> shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have >> different labels so it isn't actually the same model. >> >> The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., >> Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the >> all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. >> >> paul
Re: 370 control panel
Depends on perspective I guess.. some folks swear at it; some swear by it. There tends to be fewer watchers and the fees aren't hidden but in the end, it's still an auction and you have to play by their rule to bid. Steve On 12/8/2021 10:20 AM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote: Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% for credit card .. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING" Give me EPAY any day Dave -Original Message- From: cctech On Behalf Of s shumaker via cctech Sent: 08 December 2021 16:44 To: On Topic Discussion Subject: 370 control panel up for auction (and NOT on EPAY!): what appears to be an intact System 370 control panel in PA https://hibid.com/lot/107052050/ibm-370-145-mainframe- computer/?q==open=6=100=lot-list steve
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot. On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote: 5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model. The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. paul On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: Wow 6 bit baudot paper tape I think. That's an oldie藍 On 12/8/2021 12:50 PM, Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote: I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand. I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it. Here is my photo of it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing I'm near Houston Texas. It is too big and heavy to ship. Monty McGraw
Fwd: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
Eric, I would qualify that statement and say - I'm the Tek computer Monty :) I have a Tektronix 4052 and 4054A, plus two Tektronix 4041 (68000 based GPIB controller) computers :) Both the 4052 and 4054A also have Tektronix 401x terminal emulation at up to 9600 baud, so I don't have a use for the Siemens terminal. Monty On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 12:58 PM Eric Moore wrote: > Holy shit Monty, you are the tek terminal Monty. > > I just posted on facebook in the tek 4051 basic group, do you know anyone > with a tek 41XX or 42XX terminal? > > -Eric > > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2021, 12:51 PM Monty McGraw via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand. >> >> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it. >> >> Here is my photo of it: >> >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing >> >> I'm near Houston Texas. >> >> It is too big and heavy to ship. >> >> Monty McGraw >> >
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes. That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same model. The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed. And also that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill. paul > On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > Wow 6 bit baudot paper tape I think. That's an oldie藍 > > > On 12/8/2021 12:50 PM, Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote: >> I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand. >> >> I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it. >> >> Here is my photo of it: >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing >> >> I'm near Houston Texas. >> >> It is too big and heavy to ship. >> >> Monty McGraw >
Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
Wow 6 bit baudot paper tape I think. That's an oldie藍 On 12/8/2021 12:50 PM, Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote: I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand. I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it. Here is my photo of it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing I'm near Houston Texas. It is too big and heavy to ship. Monty McGraw
Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available
I have this terminal in my garage - sitting on its custom stand. I purchased it years ago, but don't have a use for it. Here is my photo of it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SV4-Xx7XLHIoA898ZPRC74wZv2e8YsVK/view?usp=sharing I'm near Houston Texas. It is too big and heavy to ship. Monty McGraw
Re: 370 control panel
> On Dec 8, 2021, at 1:20 PM, David Wade via cctech > wrote: > > Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% > for credit card > .. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF > ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING" Those are standard auction terms. > Give me EPAY any day It may not explicitly show a buyer's premium or CC surcharge, but you pay for those things anyway, via increased prices charged by the seller. And you don't get a warranty; the most you may get is protection against non-delivery of the promised item, which in fact you get with any credit card purchase. paul
RE: 370 control panel
Is "not on EPAY" a good thing. I see there is a 10% buyers premium plus 4% for credit card .. and " ALL ITEMS ARE SOLD AS IS WHERE IS AND HOW IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY TYPE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED CONCERNING" Give me EPAY any day Dave > -Original Message- > From: cctech On Behalf Of s shumaker via > cctech > Sent: 08 December 2021 16:44 > To: On Topic Discussion > Subject: 370 control panel > > up for auction (and NOT on EPAY!): what appears to be an intact System > 370 control panel in PA > > https://hibid.com/lot/107052050/ibm-370-145-mainframe- > computer/?q==open=6=100=lot-list > > steve
370 control panel
up for auction (and NOT on EPAY!): what appears to be an intact System 370 control panel in PA https://hibid.com/lot/107052050/ibm-370-145-mainframe-computer/?q==open=6=100=lot-list steve
Re: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
> From: Marc Howard
> I've got an 11/40 I'm going to start working on. Problem is that there
> are two power supplies (H742 and H7420) that came with it but neither
> was mounted in the rack.
-11/40's in general only have one of those large H742x suppplies in a rack.
The documentation and prints all show only a single one - in fact, the 11/40
power harness (which is specific to the KD11-A backplane, at the CPU end) can
only attach to one. The KB11 machines (-11/45 and /70) use two, but their
harness has provision for two.
I don't know of a DEC document that lists the difference between the H742 and
H7420, but my CHWiki page for them:
https://gunkies.org/wiki/H742_Power_Supply
gives what I think is a pretty good list; any errors or missing details would
be appreciated.
> Also how is the power cabling routed (I think I'm missing this part)?
That's going to be a hassle, replacing the main harness! Especially since
production of the 8-pin MATE-N-LOK connector shells used to interface to the
H744/etc 'bricks' - part numbers here:
https://gunkies.org/wiki/DEC_standard_modular_regulators
are out of production, although some vendors have residual stocks. Hoard them
while they last!
The "PDP-11/40, -11/35 (21 inch chassis) system manual" (EK-11040-TM-002):
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1140/1140_SystemManual.pdf
has pretty good coverage of the harness; the back end of Chapter 6 covers it
in detail. That's a lot easier to understand than the FMPS:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1140/PDP-1140_System_Engr_Drawings_Rev_P_Jun74.pdf
so read that before you tackle the prints.
Note that there are two different kinds of harness, depending on whether the
machine has MM11-L (-15V) or MM11-U (+20V) core memory. Unless you're
planning on using one of those, you can probably ignore that, though.
Any questions, ask here right off; we have a lot of expertise! :-) ('My'
first -11 - as in, one I was in charge of - was a -11/40. Fond mempries!)
Noel
RE: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet
Marc: Do you have the 11/40-specific wiring harness? Assuming that you do it's a bit tricky -- not so much mounting a given supply (aside from the fact that they are heavy and awkward to work with even when minimally populated), but because there is a very tight tolerance between them to thread the wiring harness. I've determined the hard way that you really need to install the lower one first, then the harness, then the upper one. At least for me it wasn't practical/possible to install the harness after-the-fact. There's also a bit of work involved in threading both of the AC power cables plus the pair of power-control cables (assuming that you're using a DEC power controller) via the right-side vertical rack channel -- which also interact with the power harness placement. Once everything is cabled-in-place the result is maximally compact, but getting there is not simple. Yes, the power cable wiring isn't well-described anywhere IMO. You have to stare at the puzzle-pieces for a while and "dry fit". Harness shape/stiffness helps eyeball how to fit the pieces together, but the importance of the rack vertical side-channel in making everything fit is not, IMO, made at all clear anywhere in the various documentation -- although it can be inferred from careful examination of a few graphics in various documents. The 11/40, the 11/45-50-55, and the 11/70 share the same design in this respect so documentation for one will serve you well in any of these cases. If you can tackle the task *before* installing the BA11 chassis you'll find it easier. If you're not using a standard DEC rack or don't have an equivalent vertical side-channel to work with then IMO you'll need to get very creative ... and the 11/40-specifics wiring harness may not work at all and you'll need to build your own. Fortunately I didn't need to explore that path ... Good luck! -Original Message- From: cctech On Behalf Of Marc Howard via cctech Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 10:28 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only Subject: Need picture of power supply mounted in 11/40 cabinet Hi, I've got an 11/40 I'm going to start working on. Problem is that there are two power supplies (H742 and H7420) that came with it but neither was mounted in the rack. Could someone post/send/etc. photos of how the power supply mounts in the rack? Also how is the power cabling routed (I think I'm missing this part)? Thanks, Marc Howard
Re: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
which Innoflex filament? There are several different hardness variants. I used Ninjaflex 3DNF0517505, but that is because it is the only TPU type filament I have at hand. I would rather use a somewhat harder variant. Jos
Re: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 8:43 AM Jos Dreesen via cctalk
wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Also, when the tapes arrive, are there recommendations in case their
> > drive belts are gone?
>
> You can 3D-print replacements.
> Use Innoflex filament, 100% fill-in and the following OpenScad formula :
>
which Innoflex filament? There are several different hardness variants.
> module ring(d1,d2,w)
> {
> difference()
> { cylinder( w, d1/2, d1/2, $fn=230);
> cylinder( w, d2/2, d2/2, $fn=230);
> }
> }
> ring(38.2,35,6); // TU60 Dectape-II
>
> Already 2 TU60 have been repaired with the above.
Useful. Thanks!
--
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen
Re: TU58 / DECtape II: Capstan goo
On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:38 PM Jan-Benedict Glaw via cctalk wrote: > However, when I checked the two drives capstans, they're old. One > has a crack, and as things go, they feel partially either hard or > gooey. Are there recommendations to exchange these for new ones? I turned a replacement hub from aluminium rod and used an O-ring as the tyre. It only has to engage with the drive roller in the cartridge, it doesn't contact the tape of course. > I > also noticed that one of the two motors rotates quite freely > (both unconnected from the board, so I'm sure they're not magnetically > braked) while the other ... can be turned without any unreasonable > torque, but it won't continue to spin at all. Hmm... Try a drop of light oil on the bearings first. I'd then try running the motor off a bench supply and measuring the current it draws. If the 2 motors run properly like that and draw much the same current then there are no problems. -tony
