[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up.  :-)


Presumably, it worked on the machine that they were using.
Not everybody tests everything on all possible configurations.


SOME companies don't test anything on any configuration other than what 
they are using.
For example, at Microsoft, if a programmer has a hardware problem, they 
immediately replace the machine.  Good working conditions.  BUT, that 
means that they have substantially less experience than we do with 
problematic machines.
Hence, disasters,  such as SMARTDRV originally defaulting to having write 
cacheing ON, which gives data loss (blamed on other components!) EVERY 
time there is an unrecovered disk error, OR the user turns off the machine 
(normal practice for most users in the 1980s) before all the buffers are 
flushed.

Proper testing would have found that before release.
Beta testers of Windows 3.11 who reported that problem were told, "You 
have a HARDWARE problem.  That's not our responsibility."  Those who 
suggested that the OS at least had a responsibility of reporting and 
making graceful exit in such conditions were dropped from the Beta program 
for all future products.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] This weekend: VCF East 2024 - April 12-14 (Wall, NJ)

[Jeffrey Brace via cctalk]

This year will be bigger than ever with lots of great exhibits, speakers,
consignment, Atari Programming Classroom and Glitch Works workshop.

VCF East takes place in Wall, NJ at InfoAge Science and History Museums
(formerly Camp Evans). For more information:
https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-east/

Tickets for VCF East (Eventbrite)   – Non-
VCF Members should use this link.

Discounted tickets for VCF Members Only (VCF’s website)
  – VCF members
should use this link. To get the 20% discount you need to become a VCF member
by Clicking Here 
Don't miss the show!

Take care!

Jeff Brace
Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Will Cooke via cctalk]

You mentioned that the TRS-80(s) have hard disks.  Perhaps the extra space 
taken by the hard disk bios is the culprit.  Maybe a floppy-only machine (with 
floppy only bios) is the only way to compile it.

Will


Grownups never understand anything by themselves and it is tiresome for 
children to be always and forever explaining things to them,

Antoine de Saint-Exupery in The Little Prince

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Doug Jackson via cctalk]

Wow,

I agree that there is clearly an incompatibility - I wonder how?  CP/M
should be CP/M...  Just the BDOS changed for the individual machine
hardware.

One thought is the screen RAM may be an issue with overlaying.

I suspect that Borland didn't notice, as the TRS80 Model 4 was really late
in the 8 bit world, having been released in 1983.  The IBM PC was released
in 1981, so I suspect that by the time somebody ran CP/M on a Model 4,
Borland had moved onto PC/MS-DOS.

Kindest regards,

Doug Jackson

em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878

Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net



On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 at 10:36, Fred Cisin via cctalk 
wrote:

> >> Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
> >> or subsets of the Kermit code?
>
> On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> > Haven't tried any other programs yet as I really wanted Kermit but
> > none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not
> > so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just
> > to big.
> >
> > I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
> > was the point where they all gave up.  :-)
>
> Well, there is still the issue of whether it is an incompatability of that
> version of Turbo Pascal with your machines, . . .
>
>
> Are you running with 128K?
> On machines that support it, 128K does NOT give you a TPA ("Transient
> Program Area") larger than 64K, but it does give it almost 64K.
>
> I wonder how large the TPA is on DOS based CP/M emulators, . . . ?
>
>
> . . . and, of course, is there somewhere, a pre-compiled version of Kermit
> for TRS80 CP/M?
>
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
>
>
>

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
or subsets of the Kermit code?


On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

Haven't tried any other programs yet as I really wanted Kermit but
none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not
so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just
to big.

I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up.  :-)


Well, there is still the issue of whether it is an incompatability of that 
version of Turbo Pascal with your machines, . . .



Are you running with 128K?
On machines that support it, 128K does NOT give you a TPA ("Transient 
Program Area") larger than 64K, but it does give it almost 64K.


I wonder how large the TPA is on DOS based CP/M emulators, . . . ?


. . . and, of course, is there somewhere, a pre-compiled version of Kermit 
for TRS80 CP/M?


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/8/2024 5:00 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two 
systems.  A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80

Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M.  I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal.  On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place.  Surely the developers
would have noticed this.  Anybody here have any experience with this?


Have you tried it with "CP/M PLUS"?  (CP/M 3.0, which Radio Shack sold 
for the model 4)


Not yet.  I don't have a 3.0 setup with a hard disk yet and I doubt
everything will fit on a floppy.



Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
or subsets of the Kermit code?


Haven't tried any other programs yet as I really wanted Kermit but
none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not
so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just
to big.

I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/8/2024 5:17 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 2:19 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
 wrote:

I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two
systems.


If it's an old version of TP that asks "Include error messages
(Y/N)?", did you try saying N?


Same error, one file further along.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Gavin Scott via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 2:19 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
 wrote:
> I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
> what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two
> systems.

If it's an old version of TP that asks "Include error messages
(Y/N)?", did you try saying N?

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two 
systems.  A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80

Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M.  I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal.  On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place.  Surely the 
developers

would have noticed this.  Anybody here have any experience with this?


Have you tried it with "CP/M PLUS"?  (CP/M 3.0, which Radio Shack sold for 
the model 4)


Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
or subsets of the Kermit code?

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two 
systems.  A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80

Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M.  I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal.  On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place.  Surely the developers
would have noticed this.  Anybody here have any experience with this?



bill

[cctalk] Re: Seeking out Joe Rigdon / John Lawson

[Gavin Scott via cctalk]

If it's the conference with many videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/@hpcalc/videos

Then you could ask Eric as I see him giving a presentation.

Or watch all the videos and see if you can spot anyone.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2024 at 10:54 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Hi Tony.
>
> Thank you for the note.
>
> Is there any way to confirm this?  Many people have been seeking out Joe
> and when I tell them I'm told he was spotted alive last year there are
> going to be many questions, and many people wanting to attempt to reach
> him.  More than a few people are very concerned about him as they enjoyed
> varying relationships with him but none have heard from him for 5+ years.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Sellam
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2024 at 8:42 PM Tony Duell via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 1:48 AM Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> >  wrote:
> >
> > [Sent privately]
> >
> > >
> > > Has anyone communicated with or know a way to communicate with Joe Rigdon
> > > out of Florida?  Most here should know him as an old-school ClassicCmp
> > > veteran.
> >
> > I have just heard that he attended the HP Handhelds conference last
> > year so is alive and well and still, presumably, interested in such
> > machines. But no way to contact him
> >
> > -tony
> >

[cctalk] Re: Problem with Dell Vostro 1700

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 at 20:43, Van Snyder via cctalk
 wrote:

> I know the main focus of the list.

No, you don't, because then you say:

>  The Vostro 1700 is almost old enough
> to be a semi-antique.

And it isn't.

> I don't know another list where people might know
> why the display flashes once and then goes black.

Then you should go join more communities and not complain about this
one -- or upset it.

> If you shine a very bright light at the display, you can dimly see what
> it's trying to show. So the display works, but the backlight doesn't.

So you have identified the problem and did not say so?

> It's my brother's only computer. He's destitute and lives in a room
> slightly bigger than a postage stamp.

Sorry to hear that.

> He can't afford a new laptop, and
> he is picky about where the USB connectors are.

He doesn't get to be picky if he's that poor. That's how life is.

> (His hobby is complaining that most stuff other people would say is
> good enough isn't perfect.)

That is a privilege that comes with being able to afford better.

TBH, ISTM that you actively want to annoy people here. It's working on
me, I can tell you that.

-- 
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

[cctalk] Re: Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Basic - Books and Manuals

[Mike Norris via cctalk]

Hello Christian,

I have sent an email to your personal address (off list).

The comments about the beer seem to have started a thread, all good fun!!

Regards Mike Norris

From: Christian Groessler via cctalk 
Sent: 07 April 2024 12:57
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Cc: Christian Groessler 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Basic - Books and Manuals

On 4/6/24 5:37 PM, Mike Norris via cctalk wrote:
> Additional
> I would like £5 beer money for this one please!
> Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C - Margie Sherlock/Leonard Szubowicz


I'd take it.

I can send you beer money, or could send you 2 or 3 bottles of local
beer. I'm living near Munich, Germany.

Sending beer will likely be quite more expensive than 5 pounds, but has
a fun factor bonus :-)

regards,
chris

[cctalk] Re: DEC VT340/330 ROM Cartridge

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I believe the VT340-A has the ROM card, but the VT340-G (or plus) does not.
The same goes for the VT330A, B, and C versus the D, E, and F.

Paul

On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 1:07 AM Glen Slick via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 8:26 AM Douglas Taylor via cctalk
>  wrote:
> >
> > On 4/6/2024 11:14 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> > > On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 3:54 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk
> > >  wrote:
> > >> The DEC VT340 has a slot in the back of the terminal to insert a ROM
> > >> cartridge.  I can't find any description of what this DEC labeled ROM
> > >> cartridge would do for you.  I've seen them with V1.1 and V2.1
> markings,
> > >> does anyone remember what additional capabilities these ROM cartridge
> > >> provide?
> > > Will the terminal work at all without that cartridge fitted?. I've had
> > > a quick look at the VT330 and VT340 printsets and I can't obviously
> > > spot any firmware ROMs on the main board schematics. So my first guess
> > > is that said cartridge is the terminal firmware.
> > >
> > > -tony
> >
> > Hmm, I have a VT340 that seems to pass POST but no video.  It does have
> > a cartridge inserted into the slot, you may be exactly correct.
> >
> > Doug
>
> The VT340 I have does not have an opening on the back where the ROM
> slot would be. Maybe the ROM card is still there in that location, but
> the back cover molding was changed to remove the user accessible slot.
> I'd have to pull the cover off to see if the ROM board is still in
> that location.
>
> The VT330 I have does have a removable ROM card. That one might be a
> pre-production unit. Instead of mask ROMs it has EPROMs, and the
> manuals it came with are not production level manuals.
>

[cctalk] Re: DEC VT340/330 ROM Cartridge

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 8:26 AM Douglas Taylor via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> On 4/6/2024 11:14 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 3:54 PM Douglas Taylor via cctalk
> >  wrote:
> >> The DEC VT340 has a slot in the back of the terminal to insert a ROM
> >> cartridge.  I can't find any description of what this DEC labeled ROM
> >> cartridge would do for you.  I've seen them with V1.1 and V2.1 markings,
> >> does anyone remember what additional capabilities these ROM cartridge
> >> provide?
> > Will the terminal work at all without that cartridge fitted?. I've had
> > a quick look at the VT330 and VT340 printsets and I can't obviously
> > spot any firmware ROMs on the main board schematics. So my first guess
> > is that said cartridge is the terminal firmware.
> >
> > -tony
>
> Hmm, I have a VT340 that seems to pass POST but no video.  It does have
> a cartridge inserted into the slot, you may be exactly correct.
>
> Doug

The VT340 I have does not have an opening on the back where the ROM
slot would be. Maybe the ROM card is still there in that location, but
the back cover molding was changed to remove the user accessible slot.
I'd have to pull the cover off to see if the ROM board is still in
that location.

The VT330 I have does have a removable ROM card. That one might be a
pre-production unit. Instead of mask ROMs it has EPROMs, and the
manuals it came with are not production level manuals.