[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
I believe the term was coined at PARC and was to distinguish between a time-sharing system and a computer which was “yours” when you put your disk pack on it and sat in the room where you were. Thus the Alto and Dorados were personal as they melded to their user, when being used by that user, and then to the next user when the new pack was installed. Time-sharing systems were pretty much not customizable and were certainly shared. .. -- Kenton A. Hoover ken...@nemersonhoover.org shib...@mail.marchordie.org +1 415 830 5843 On Jun 5, 2024 at 06:50 -0700, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk , wrote: > > > On 6/5/2024 9:33 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi. It means > > > > ordinary people. It means the masses. A personal computer is only > > > > personal if the person in question is an ordinary Joe. > > > > > > > > > > To my mind, there are two things that define a computer as a personal > > > computer. The first is what you say above, affordable by the masses. The > > > second is "intended for" the masses. > > > > > > > > > > > So if a computer was built to be used by a single operator for general > > purpose use, open to any application development but cost more than the > > masses could afford, even if it was clear in the manual that the machine > > was manufactured and intended to be used for general purpose computing, > > it's not a "personal computer"? > > I think the term "personal computer" is impossible to define. Its > meaning will mean something different to just about anybody. Kinda > like "intelligence". Some accept IQ as a measurement. Some accept > membership in Mensa as a measure of very high IQ. I, on the other > hand, I see membership in Mensa a a factor requiring the subtraction > of at least 50 points from IQ because they were stupid enough to pay > someone for it. :-) > > bill
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
Please kill it.
It's a marketing term, defined to suit the needs of the moment.
Even if we ever define it to our satisfaction, nobody else will ever use
that definition.
On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 2:32 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
>
> Liebe Leser, after consigning most of this thread to the bit bucket over
> the last week or more, I find myself in the position of trying to figure
> out what the latest posts have to do with 'Experience using an Altair
> 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)'. Indeed, it seems that much of the
> thread has been filled with replies having nothing at all to do with the
> MITS 8800.
>
> Please, someone--either kill the thread or start a new one that has
> content relative to the thread title.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>
>
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at 7:43 AM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: > > On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > >> OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about > >> 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in > >> biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved > >> with it later moved to Washington University in St. > >> Louis. The Biomedical Computer Lab there later added some > >> features such a a crude memory mapping unit and more > >> memory, and called this the Programmed Console, so as not > >> to scare people away. Artronix began building these PC's > >> and selling them to hospitals for radiation therapy > >> planning. I have no idea how many were sold. They were > >> built into a desk, and used 7400-series logic chips. They > >> etched their own PC boards, drilled them by hand and > >> soldered in the chips by hand. I wrote a series of > >> diagnostics for them. > > > > Do any survive? I've looked for them but never found one. > > An Artronix PC? I seriously doubt it, but it is possible. > There is at least one LINC that was restored about a decade > ago, and taken out to VCF 10. If an Artronix PC did evade > the scrapper, it would not be that hard to get it running again. > > Jon > Is it Artronix or Artronics, out of Plainfield, New Jersey (according to the label, formally TechArt Systems 2000)? Because if the latter, I have one right here, though I can't tell you the model number because it is not displaying one. The serial number seems to indicate it was made in 1984. Here's a link to an ad in PC World circa 1984 ==> https://books.google.com/books?id=-C_xVnQCcsEC&pg=PA48&dq=artronics++plainfield&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiv_-DQs82GAxWPmO4BHahVB_YQ6AF6BAgEEAI#v=onepage&q=artronics%20%20plainfield&f=false The LINC exhibited at VCF 10.0 was one of two systems the fine folks of the Washington University team who originally designed and built the LINC scraped together and got working in time for the Festival, and their presentation therein. That system went with Bruce Damer to the DigiBarn (Bruce was instrumental in putting together the presentation for VCF X) and then a few years ago went off to the System Source Museum in Maryland. The second backup/parts system went with me. I eventually sold my system* to a private collector. Unfortunately, I never had a chance to do anything with it. Sellam * When my collection was effectively stolen, the console was taken by the scrappers but I retained the CPU cabinet. I eventually sold the CPU to the private collector, and I more recently learned he was subsequently able to recover the console from the said scrappers and reunite the parts to make the system whole again. In any event, it was due some parts and much effort to be made working.
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
Liebe Leser, after consigning most of this thread to the bit bucket over
the last week or more, I find myself in the position of trying to figure
out what the latest posts have to do with 'Experience using an Altair
8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)'. Indeed, it seems that much of the
thread has been filled with replies having nothing at all to do with the
MITS 8800.
Please, someone--either kill the thread or start a new one that has
content relative to the thread title.
Thanks,
Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On 6/8/24 15:17, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in St. Louis. The Biomedical Computer Lab there later added some features such a a crude memory mapping unit and more memory, and called this the Programmed Console, so as not to scare people away. Artronix began building these PC's and selling them to hospitals for radiation therapy planning. I have no idea how many were sold. They were built into a desk, and used 7400-series logic chips. They etched their own PC boards, drilled them by hand and soldered in the chips by hand. I wrote a series of diagnostics for them. Do any survive? I've looked for them but never found one. An Artronix PC? I seriously doubt it, but it is possible. There is at least one LINC that was restored about a decade ago, and taken out to VCF 10. If an Artronix PC did evade the scrapper, it would not be that hard to get it running again. Even maintenance drawings would be great. Does any software survive? Diagnostics would be cool, but so would MUMPS. Not sure the radiology software would be useful, but it would still be of historic interest. Well, I believe that LINC LAP-6 will "boot" on an Artronix PC. I am fairly sure I did try that a long time ago. And, the guys who resurrected the LINC for the VCF demo did have LAP-6 running. One big feature of the Artronix PC was a TEK storage scope that allowed you to see a whole page of text at a time, instead of the tiny window that was available on the LINC. I think the LINC could only support about 8 or 12 short lines due to the slow refresh. Jon I'll ask Al Weber if he has anything. I know unless it's PC sized he doesn't have it. He has a lot of RS6000 stuff I need to pick up and Victor. I think he did a give away of a lot of his documentation about 5 years ago, so he may have given it away if he had it. thanks Jim The Artronix PC CPU box was about an 18" cube, but then there was the console and LINCtape drives, which were each rack-mount boxes about 9" high. Jon
[cctalk] Artonix PC (was Re: Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s))
On 6/8/2024 1:17 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: Even maintenance drawings would be great. Does any software survive? Diagnostics would be cool, but so would MUMPS. Not sure the radiology software would be useful, but it would still be of historic interest. Well, I believe that LINC LAP-6 will "boot" on an Artronix PC. I am fairly sure I did try that a long time ago. And, the guys who resurrected the LINC for the VCF demo did have LAP-6 running. One big feature of the Artronix PC was a TEK storage scope that allowed you to see a whole page of text at a time, instead of the tiny window that was available on the LINC. I think the LINC could only support about 8 or 12 short lines due to the slow refresh. Jon I'll ask Al Weber if he has anything. I know unless it's PC sized he doesn't have it. He has a lot of RS6000 stuff I need to pick up and Victor. I think he did a give away of a lot of his documentation about 5 years ago, so he may have given it away if he had it. thanks Jim Thanks! Vince
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On 6/8/24 12:33, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in St. Louis. The Biomedical Computer Lab there later added some features such a a crude memory mapping unit and more memory, and called this the Programmed Console, so as not to scare people away. Artronix began building these PC's and selling them to hospitals for radiation therapy planning. I have no idea how many were sold. They were built into a desk, and used 7400-series logic chips. They etched their own PC boards, drilled them by hand and soldered in the chips by hand. I wrote a series of diagnostics for them. Do any survive? I've looked for them but never found one. An Artronix PC? I seriously doubt it, but it is possible. There is at least one LINC that was restored about a decade ago, and taken out to VCF 10. If an Artronix PC did evade the scrapper, it would not be that hard to get it running again. Even maintenance drawings would be great. Does any software survive? Diagnostics would be cool, but so would MUMPS. Not sure the radiology software would be useful, but it would still be of historic interest. Well, I believe that LINC LAP-6 will "boot" on an Artronix PC. I am fairly sure I did try that a long time ago. And, the guys who resurrected the LINC for the VCF demo did have LAP-6 running. One big feature of the Artronix PC was a TEK storage scope that allowed you to see a whole page of text at a time, instead of the tiny window that was available on the LINC. I think the LINC could only support about 8 or 12 short lines due to the slow refresh. Jon I'll ask Al Weber if he has anything. I know unless it's PC sized he doesn't have it. He has a lot of RS6000 stuff I need to pick up and Victor. I think he did a give away of a lot of his documentation about 5 years ago, so he may have given it away if he had it. thanks Jim
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On 6/8/24 11:56, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in St. Louis. The Biomedical Computer Lab there later added some features such a a crude memory mapping unit and more memory, and called this the Programmed Console, so as not to scare people away. Artronix began building these PC's and selling them to hospitals for radiation therapy planning. I have no idea how many were sold. They were built into a desk, and used 7400-series logic chips. They etched their own PC boards, drilled them by hand and soldered in the chips by hand. I wrote a series of diagnostics for them. Do any survive? I've looked for them but never found one. An Artronix PC? I seriously doubt it, but it is possible. There is at least one LINC that was restored about a decade ago, and taken out to VCF 10. If an Artronix PC did evade the scrapper, it would not be that hard to get it running again. Even maintenance drawings would be great. Does any software survive? Diagnostics would be cool, but so would MUMPS. Not sure the radiology software would be useful, but it would still be of historic interest. Well, I believe that LINC LAP-6 will "boot" on an Artronix PC. I am fairly sure I did try that a long time ago. And, the guys who resurrected the LINC for the VCF demo did have LAP-6 running. One big feature of the Artronix PC was a TEK storage scope that allowed you to see a whole page of text at a time, instead of the tiny window that was available on the LINC. I think the LINC could only support about 8 or 12 short lines due to the slow refresh. Jon
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On 6/8/2024 7:43 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in St. Louis. The Biomedical Computer Lab there later added some features such a a crude memory mapping unit and more memory, and called this the Programmed Console, so as not to scare people away. Artronix began building these PC's and selling them to hospitals for radiation therapy planning. I have no idea how many were sold. They were built into a desk, and used 7400-series logic chips. They etched their own PC boards, drilled them by hand and soldered in the chips by hand. I wrote a series of diagnostics for them. Do any survive? I've looked for them but never found one. An Artronix PC? I seriously doubt it, but it is possible. There is at least one LINC that was restored about a decade ago, and taken out to VCF 10. If an Artronix PC did evade the scrapper, it would not be that hard to get it running again. Even maintenance drawings would be great. Does any software survive? Diagnostics would be cool, but so would MUMPS. Not sure the radiology software would be useful, but it would still be of historic interest. Thanks, Vince
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On 6/7/24 20:42, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote: On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: OK, I have to chime in here. I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in St. Louis. The Biomedical Computer Lab there later added some features such a a crude memory mapping unit and more memory, and called this the Programmed Console, so as not to scare people away. Artronix began building these PC's and selling them to hospitals for radiation therapy planning. I have no idea how many were sold. They were built into a desk, and used 7400-series logic chips. They etched their own PC boards, drilled them by hand and soldered in the chips by hand. I wrote a series of diagnostics for them. Do any survive? I've looked for them but never found one. An Artronix PC? I seriously doubt it, but it is possible. There is at least one LINC that was restored about a decade ago, and taken out to VCF 10. If an Artronix PC did evade the scrapper, it would not be that hard to get it running again. Jon
