Re: RT-11 idle light pattern
The sources to each release were usually included with the distribution so that custom system settings could be sysgened. The sources are uncommented, however. You could implement this by finding the commented out source in the sources and regenerating the system, with the code in the appropriate place. Dave On 12/28/17 4:28 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: On Dec 27, 2017, at 8:23 AM, Paul Koning wrote: ; "A SOURCE OF INNOCENT MERRIMENT!" ; - W.S. GILBERT, "MIKADO" ; "DID NOTHING IN PARTICULAR, AND DID IT VERY WELL" ; - W.S. GILBERT, "IOLANTHE" ; "TO BE IDLE IS THE ULTIMATE PURPOSE OF THE BUSY" ; - SAMUEL JOHNSON, "THE IDLER" 10$:DEC (PC)+ ;THE RT-11 LIGHTS ROUTINE! 20$:1 BNE 14$ ;NOT TOO OFTEN ADD #512.,20$ ;RESET COUNT, CLEAR CARRY 16$:ROL 13$ ;JUGGLE THE LIGHTS BNE 11$ ;NOT CLEAR YET COM 13$ ;TURN ON LIGHTS, SET CARRY 11$:BCC 12$ ;NOTHING FELL OFF, KEEP MOVING ADD #100,16$;REVERSE DIRECTION BIC #200,16$;ROL/ROR FLIP 12$:MOV (PC)+,@(PC)+;PUT IN LIGHTS 13$:.WORD 0,SR 14$:MOVB#MXJNUM/2+200,INTACT ;DO A COMPLETE SCAN EXUSLK: BR EXUSER ;BACK INTO LOOKFOR LOOP Very cool — thanks for the snippet, Paul! I’ve seen mention in various RT-11 manuals that the sources were made available by DEC at the time (perhaps only on fiche?) I would love to read through the V4.00 sources, if anybody knows where I could track them down? cheers, —FritzM.
Re: Malware history was: Spectre & Meltdown
This isn't malware, but back in 1962 when I was taking a college class in assembly language programming for the IBM 709, my innocence led to the following. Of course, I had, on the typewriter, for my high school years, always typed ' backspace . to get an exclamation point. I did this in a comment in my first punched card submittal using an 026 keypunch. The program was rejected, and I lost $0.25 from my lab fee. So my first real computer program was a flaming failure. Had to wait for the 029 to be emphatic in punching. Dave On 1/16/18 4:27 PM, Sam O'nella via cctalk wrote: Enjoying the virus/malware history as its always interesting to see what people thought. Tricks, boredom, etc cause interesting results. For punch cards i thought someone was going to mention punching all the holes and jamming the reader. I'm not sure if thats real but heard some folks had to check their opcodes or it could potentially lead to that or flimsy card integrity if not. Did anyone here ever see animal or other shared system malware? Animal was just a nondestructive trojan (other than potential to take up disk space) but interesting that someone would run a program that appeared unexpected in their home folder. Original message (I'm unaware of any punch-card attacks, but trojans were possible when people used prior subroutines)
Re: 8 inch floppies, decaying
Would Chuck's temperature and Al's oven be appropriate for old magtapes, too? On 7/11/18 9:10 AM, Al Kossow via cctech wrote: On 7/11/18 8:57 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: Be wary though, domestic ovens apparently fluctuate wildly. Use a food dehydrator this is the unit I use for QIC tapes (weston 10 tray stainless steel dehydrator model 74-1001-2) https://www.ebay.com/itm//113143490361 but I do them a couple dozen at at time
Re: Origin of 'Straight 8' name
In 1968-69 my bedroom was right over PDP-8 #6. It's been 50 years, but it may have been referred to as a "straight-8" then? On 12/21/18 12:51 PM, Jim Carpenter via cctalk wrote: On 12/21/18 1:10 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: On 12/21/18 10:03 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: "Straight-8" seems to be a fairly modern name coming from collectors I never heard it called that before then. Anyone feel like doing a alt.sys.pdp-8 search for it by date? The PDP8-LOVERS mailing list predates alt.sys.pdp8 by a couple years. I just checked the archives and the earliest usage of 'straight-8' is from Charles Lasner in an e-mail introducing himself to the still new mailing list on August 10th, 1990. I've pasted his complete message at the bottom. The 'straight -8' is mentioned in the second sentence of his second paragraph. A quick check shows that it was common for cjl to use the term 'straight-8'. I don't feel like going down the rathole of trying to find a way to search Usenet by date right now. I miss DejaNews. Damn I hate Google. Jim Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by BUGS.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU; Fri, 10 Aug 90 05:37:28 EDT Received: from life.ai.mit.edu ([128.52.32.80]) by ELI.CS.YALE.EDU; Fri, 10 Aug 90 05:36:07 EDT Received: from watsun.cc.columbia.edu by life.ai.mit.edu (4.1/AI-4.10) id AA00254; Fri, 10 Aug 90 05:12:04 EDT Received: by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA20618; Fri, 10 Aug 90 05:12:20 EDT Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 5:12:19 EDT From: Charles Lasner To: pdp8-lov...@ai.mit.edu Subject: Belated Mail Reply Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 5:12:19 EDT From: Charles Lasner To: pdp8-lov...@ai.mit.edu Subject: Belated Mail Reply >Received: from AI.AI.MIT.EDU (CHAOS 3130) by MC.LCS.MIT.EDU 18 Feb 89 10:32:35 EST >Date: Sat, 18 Feb 89 10:32:31 EST >From: "Robert E. Seastrom" >To: pdp8-lov...@mc.lcs.mit.edu >Message-ID: <540513.890218...@ai.ai.mit.edu> > > >Well, folks, it's finally here. The PDP8-LOVERS mailing list is now >reality! Messages for the list go to pdp8-lov...@mc.lcs.mit.edu; >requests to be added to or deleted from the list go to >pdp8-lovers-requ...@mc.lcs.mit.edu (case is _not_ critical here). > >Perhaps we ought to all introduce ourselves to each other... > > This one's for you <7001> > > -Rob From: cjl Let me introduce myself. I am Charles J. Lasner. I only use the J to get my initials, which I usually go by, thus cjl. I am a PDP-8 programmer. I don't know how many of us there are left, but I started in 1968 with a straight -8 table-top machine at Brooklyn PolyTechnic Institute. The school probably has another name by now, due to academia's answer to the business world's phenomena of acquisitions and mergers. The machine in question is quite legendary. The work done on it is responsible in LARGE part for why all of us are here reading this, since this is the "original" PDP-8 used by the legendary Richard Lary and company. If it can be said that the PDP-8 created the phrase "mini-computer", then it is THIS PDP-8 that made the "mini-computer" into something other than a paper-tape machine! This PDP-8 was originally configured by the academics in charge as a programmer's disaster: 4K, EAE, a model 33 teletype, AF01A A-D converter with 16-channel multiplexor, AA01A D-A converter with (wow!) THREE channels. A Bud blue rack cabinet housed the A-D and D-A with lots of empty space. All empty slots had those wonderful super-thick zinctone panels, and the fronts were all in place; they were held in place with those pressed-in heavy shiny metal threaded bosses that most of you can't figure out the purpose of on your wire-wrap racks. As far as I know, these were the only style of cabinet that the bosses were supplied for. The plates used heavy nickel-plated knurled knobs with a screw-driver slot you could turn with a dime. Soon after all of this arrived, and got nowhere due to the enormous waste of time paper-tape can be (especially at 110 baud and unreliable at that!), a DEC salesman suggested a high-speed reader/punch be added. Fortunately for all of us, THIS NEVER HAPPENED, for if it had, no further work of external significence would have been done. (The EE department would have been very happy to just develop their diddly A-D and D-A experiment programs.) Due to the efforts of Richard Lary, Jack Burness, Hank Maurer, Lenny Elekman, and Joseph R. Fischetti (to name a few legends I knew), the EE department was convinced to spend MORE money on some new-fangled beast the salesman had vaguely heard of; he was fairly certain it was called a MicroTape. This was, of course, an early name for DECtape. So the EE department shelled out another $8k and got itself another Bud blue rack cabinet complete with sides, another power controller, 11 buss cables, and a TC01 and one (yes one!) TU55 DECtape drive. The academics thought that the drive was custom made for the P
Re: Original PDP-11/10 [was: Re: Origin of 'Straight 8' name]
Are you sure the referenced early PDP-11/10 wasn't really the PDP-11/15? We got an 11/15 because it was cheaper and DEC had one sitting around that we could get with end of year left over budget funds. On 12/21/18 2:00 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 4:47 PM Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: On 12/21/2018 3:07 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Dec 21, 2018, at 3:06 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: My _guess_ is that that probably happened because there is no formal 'model' for that first one (unlike the first -11, which got re-named the -11/20 BITD), and people recently picked that to disambiguate them from all the other -8's. The original PDP 11 was sold in two model options, although the numbers did not appear on the faceplace, very clearly the model options were called PDP 11/10 and PDP 11/20. These are just as legitimate and well defined as the 11/05 vs. 11/10 (later version) that followed it except for the one fact of the front plate. The fact that the name does not appear on the front panel has caused every DEC historian to miss this factoid. Read the first brochure, don't take my word for it. http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=593 Momentum prevents change I get it, but it's clear that the model 11/20 and 11/10 existed from day one. The problem is that DEC re-used the 11/10 model name again a few years later, the other cause for neglecting the original 11/10 model. Bill Wow. Did that V1 11/10 ever ship? Do any still exist? I'm curious about that 1 kW read-only memory. What technology is that memory? At that size and that date I suspect core rope, but that would be pretty expensive (due to the labor involved). paul It shows up in the pdp11 handbook 1969 inside/1970 on the spine, and pdp11 handbook 2nd edition (also 1969/1970), but has been displaced by the latter 11/10 variant by 1972. Perhaps, since the *only* difference was the memory configuration (near as I can tell), there may have been so few orders (maybe even none?) that they just dropped it. Or maybe a marketing / design team communication misstep. The pdp11 handbook from 1969/1970 identifies the memory attributed to the 11/10 only as read-only core memory with an access time of 500ns (same as the RAM core). It describes the tiny RAM for the 11/10 of 256 words has having a 2us cycle time vs. 1.2us for the 11/20. The handbook also indicates that an 11/20 could do an NPR transfer every 1.2us but an 11/10 could do one ever 1.0us (probably assuming ROM cycle times). As a guess, they may never have sold any (or delivered 11/20's to those who ordered 11/10's). When you consider the differences between the 11/35 and 11/40 were simply option choices and the later 11/10 11/05, I can see no reason why the "original 11/10 11/20 is any different other than the front plate being "PDP-11" for the later pairing. I am unaware of any 11/10's still around but I am also unaware of any Rolm 1601's that still exist, does not mean it was not a real Ruggednova model. etc. Basically it's being inconsistent to not acknowledge the original 11/10. We could say that the PDP 11 models were 11/20 11/45 11/40 11/10 ... and ignore the original 11/10, plus the 11/35 and 11/05. I will still sleep well at night regardless what officialdom decides. :-) Bill
Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
Washington State Ferries still use 50 cent pieces and 2 dollar bills a lot. After years of receiving them as change, I finally asked why? The reason is they reduce the number of hand movements by one half. If you're sitting in a kiosk all day dolling out change, it can reduce repetitive wrist/elbow ailments. On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for. On Fri, 28 Jun 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: If I may just say -- only about 5% of humanity know how big that is. I don't. I don't even know if a half a dollar is a note or a coin, and that's without getting extra-pedantic and pointing out that about a dozen countries call their currencies the "dollar". :-( Oh, FAR FAR FAR less than 5%. Most residents of USA haven't seen a half dollar or "50 cent piece" in decades. They are as much of an oddity as the $2 bill. They are nominally still in circulation, most recent being JFK, but I think that they stopped making them in 2002, and there are federal vaults full of uncirculated pre-2002 coins. Most recent has a portrait of Kennedy. They are 30.61mm diameter, which is the largest relatively recent USA coin (not counting the long discontinued 38.1mm SILVER DOLLAR) You could have just ASSUMED THAT IT WOULD BE logarithmically between a quarter[dollar] (24.26mm) and a dollar coin (26.5mm). That would be completely WRONG, unless you use the 38.1mm ancient "silver dollar", but hardly a problem. "50 pence coin" would be CLOSE ENOUGH. Actually, for THIS purpose, "large coin" is as accurate as you need. Just as I am not at all familiar with British currency, that hasn't dampened my appreciation of British TV, such as Doctor Who and a variety of Brit-coms. "Silver dollar" used to be a large coin. (38.1mm) It was the standard for casinos. When it was discontinued (1935), the casinos started to mint their own chips/tokens as a replacement. There was a brief attempt to revive the silver dollar in 1971 with the "Eisenhower Dollar". It is quite rare that you will encounter one of the "large dollars". The Susan B Anthony dollar (1979-1981) http://www.smalldollars.com/ was never widely accepted, mostly because it was MUCH MUCH too close to a quarter in size. (26.5mm V 24.26mm) Different edge milling is NOT ENOUGH. It COULD have been widely accepted, if the gubmint were to have given a tax incentive to have video games that took a quarter to provide five games for a "Carter Quarter"; and the "quantity sale" would have been so profitable that the tax incentive would only have to have been short term. It is quite rare that you will encounter one. It was later replaced with the Sacajewa dollar. Same problem. It is quite rare that you will encounter one. Then there was a commemorative series (gold colored) of presidents of USA. Change of COLOR is NOT ENOUGH. It is quite rare that you will encounter one. And, I understand that the gubmint is planning an "American innovation" commemorative series. We are far too arrogant to learn from our mistakes. It will be quite rare that you will encounter one. But, the states of USA commemorative quarters were so popular that they followed that with national parks commemorative quarters. The quarter is the largest USA coin that you are likely to encounter in circulation. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)
I visited CHM in early 2018. I actually didn't go to CHM proper, but arranged with them to visit a warehouse nearby where they store a lot of stuff they don't display. I was able to see my "first personal computer" circa 1962. It was an IBM 709, the last vacuum tube computer from IBM (I think). It had made its way through a couple of stops from the Research Computer Laboratory at the University of Washington to CHM. As an undergraduate, I started working in the Lab as a Student Operator on the "late" shift (10pm-6am?). Early in UW quarters there were often no "jobs" to run through the system, and it sat idle. Plenty of time to fiddle with learning assembler and Fortran. If you had something specific of interest, you might be able to arrange something. I became a member to do this, and still am one today. Dave On 3/12/23 9:27 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week. I always wanted to check it out and spend a day there, but something else happens. Any recommendations of what is a must see at the museum and anything else classic computing nearby in one day only (March 15)? Regards, Tarek Hoteit
[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)
I visited CHM in early 2018. I actually didn't go to CHM proper, but arranged with them to visit a warehouse nearby where they store a lot of stuff they don't display. I was able to see my "first personal computer" circa 1962. It was an IBM 709, the last vacuum tube computer from IBM (I think). It had made its way through a couple of stops from the Research Computer Laboratory at the University of Washington to CHM. As an undergraduate, I started working in the Lab as a Student Operator on the "late" shift (10pm-6am?). Early in UW quarters there were often no "jobs" to run through the system, and it sat idle. Plenty of time to fiddle with learning assembler and Fortran. If you had something specific of interest, you might be able to arrange something. I became a member to do this, and still am one today. Dave On 3/12/23 9:27 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week. I always wanted to check it out and spend a day there, but something else happens. Any recommendations of what is a must see at the museum and anything else classic computing nearby in one day only (March 15)? Regards, Tarek Hoteit
[cctalk] Re: OT: Ham Radio
There are numerous Ham Radio groups at Groups.io: https://groups.io If you know what you are after, search for it. If you're not sure, search for "ham radio". I belong to about 44 ham radio groups there. 73, Dave K7DCJ On 7/7/23 12:54 AM, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote: Bill, There are moderated groups, but many don't want to use them. Not sure why, delays in posting etc. As most of the noxious people are consistent in posting ids some kill filters can fix. Dave G4UGM -Original Message- From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 5:31 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Bill Gunshannon Subject: [cctalk] OT: Ham Radio I know this is off topic, but I think there are a number of hams here. Looking to get back into it but have some questions. Now that the a**holes have completely trashed all the USENET ham radio groups where do hams go for the kinds of discussions that used to be there? bill
[cctalk] Re: OT: Ham Radio
There are numerous Ham Radio groups at Groups.io: https://groups.io If you know what you are after, search for it. If you're not sure, search for "ham radio". I belong to about 44 ham radio groups there. 73, Dave K7DCJ On 7/6/23 9:30 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I know this is off topic, but I think there are a number of hams here. Looking to get back into it but have some questions. Now that the a**holes have completely trashed all the USENET ham radio groups where do hams go for the kinds of discussions that used to be there? bill
[cctalk] Re: Versatec Electrostatic Printers (was :Re: Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems)
The US Letter size of folded Versatec paper came in a cardboard box that was really good for compartmentalizing small stuff and stacking for storage! I used to scrounge around the waste containers for empty, used boxes. Still have many in use. Dave On 4/13/24 11:40 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: On Sat, Apr 13, 2024 at 10:48 PM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: Yes, there were a number of Versatec models for different paper sizes and pixel density. Does anyone else have one in their collection? I have an ICL-badged V80 which has a GPIB interface to link it to a PERQ. I also have the schematics, etc for the plain V80 but nothing on the GPIB interface (ether user or service data). IIRC the V80 is based round a Texas 16-bit microprocessor with some AM2900-series sequencers and ROMs to control the electrode timing. As Jon said in the bit I deleted, there's a 'nib electrode' under the paper and a segmented backing electrode above it. The charge image is built up on the paper, then the toner is flowed over it and the carbon (I assume) particles adhere to the charged bits. No drying heater in mine. -tony
